Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

[procrastinat]

Another thing to note about Porygon2, he can counter-trap Scarfed Magnezone locked into any move (except volt switch obviously) and Specs Magnezone locked into HP Fire thanks to trace, and also counter-trap the rarer Dugtrio.

 

[Firebird101]

Another thing to note about Porygon2, he can counter-trap Scarfed Magnezone locked into any move (except volt switch obviously) and Specs Magnezone locked into HP Fire thanks to trace, and also counter-trap the rarer Dugtrio.

While it can trace Zone's ability and trap a choice'd one lock into a undesirable mon none of the common moves P2 runs particularly threatens Zone either (boltbeam coverage, t-wave and toxic) so I'm not sure it's such a hot advantage. Trapping Dugtrio sounds pretty cool though ^^

 

[procrastinat]

While it can trace Zone's ability and trap a choice'd one lock into a undesirable mon none of the common moves P2 runs particularly threatens Zone either (boltbeam coverage, t-wave and toxic) so I'm not sure it's such a hot advantage. Trapping Dugtrio sounds pretty cool though ^^

On the other hand, what can Zone do back? P2 can slowly whittle away at a ScarfZone while it laughs at it's relatively weak attacks and recovering off the damage, same for SpecsZone locked into a weak Hidden Power.

 

[master_marshmallow]

252+ Atk Talonflame Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 108-128 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- 65.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 138-163 (35 - 41.3%) -- 75% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Talonflame Steel Wing vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 84-100 (20.8 - 24.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 53-63 (13.1 - 15.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 432-510 (153.7 - 181.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Steel Wing vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 170-200 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Steel wing helps when?

Um your speed benchmark is jolly excadrill outside of sand? That's great but it means your roost and U-turns are gonna be outspeed quite often. Drop the 4 hp on sceptile and put it on a def cause it gives it an odd HP number making subs and entry hazard damage do extra. Also energy ball has more PP yay... You have dragon pulse as a secondary stab don't forget use either giga for recovery or Leaf Storm for power.

Swords Dance is probably the better move. That means the only time you aren't getting speed priority is when you go fire, and that usually means going against an uninvested Scizor or Ferrothorn.
Sharp Beak or Sky Plate are options too.

 

[WebBowser]

Just wanted to pop in quickly to give my thoughts on Metagross. I feel like this guy is honestly one of the best megas in the current meta (obv excluding sal, fucking asswipe broken fuck stupid piece of shit), boosted speed to outspeed and ko keldeo/terrakion and tie with the latis, massive boost in bulk lets it actually switch in on moves, unlike many other new megas, who require free switches to do shit. The combination of improved bulk, speed and its cool defensive typing gives it plenty of opportunities to wreak havok on offensive teams. Unfortunately though, Ferrothorn and Skarm wall it to hell and back and bc of the prevalence of shed shell, even using zone isnt the most reliable way of beating them. Speaking of Zone and trappers in general, it is fucked up how much they have surged in popularity recently, every second team has either zone, duggie, wobb, goth or even a combination of them but considering the amount of new megas walled by steel types it's not surpising that theres a sudden increase in popularity, though it will probably die down as the meta dies down and new counters are discovered.

One thing I have learned is that any time a broken or almost broken sweeper exists (ie a sweeper who is capable of sweeping the majority of the tier given a single free turn), trappers will always be on the rise. One of the defining characteristics of a broken sweeper is an extremely low pool of checks. A trapper can either turn that check into setup bait by locking it into a useless move(wobb, goth), or remove that check entirely (dug, zone, sometimes goth). Salemence, if not broken, is incredibly overcentralizing and is the definition of a mon with a limited pool of checks, so it makes sense that trappers are common atm.

Trappers basically have the effect of making broken things more broken, that's a significant reason why shadow tag is being tested in ubers but is (debatably) fine in OU, because everything in ubers is by definition broken.

 

[Josh Morales]

So here's a (balanced?) core that works very well in the current metagame.

Skarmory
########
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Roost
move 2: Whirlwind
move 3: Brave Bird / Stealth Rock
move 4: Defog / Brave Bird
ability: Sturdy
item: Shed Shell
nature: Bold / Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Dugtrio
########
name: Trapper
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Reversal
move 3: Memento / Stone Edge
move 4: Stealth Rock / Substitute
ability: Arena Trap
item: Focus Sash
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
ivs: 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
nature: Naive / Hasty

Clefable
########
name: Magic Guard + Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Moonblast
move 3: Soft-Boiled
move 4: Stored Power / Flamethrower
ability: Magic Guard
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
nature: Bold

DragMag with MMence is downright uniquitous as you probably know, and the most comman and probably broken set is the SubDD mono-attacking set. Skarmory is a very reliable stop to that set, which is something any team welcomes with open arms, and Shed Shell keeps you safe from DragMag shenanigans. Better yet, you can oftentimes trap Magnezone itself and set up Stealth Rocks on it with Dugtrio since many opponents don't expect Skarmory to be able to switch out. Initially I figured that Choice Band would be ideal on Dugtrio as compensation for its subpar base Attack stat, but in the long run I definitely think Focus Sash with Stealth Rocks provides a larger contribution to the team as a whole. Focus Sash is also very useful because if your opponent is daring enough to Flash Cannon when they think they've successfully trapped Skarmory, your poor Dugtrio won't bite the dust to a single Specs Flash Cannon and you will at least be able to kill the Magnezone. Stealth Rocks breaking the Sash is also not an issue since I use Defog over SR on Skarmory with this core and Magnezone normally comes in to attempt to trap your Skarmory on a Defog, making the switch into Dugtrio safe. Additionally, Heatran oftentimes tries to set up Stealth Rocks in Skarmory's presence, and Clefable loves the presence of Dugtrio to trap Magnezone and Heatran.

 

[TheTraininator]

Wow, loving gunk shot on Greninja. Fairies will pretty much have a hard time. Getting outsped and considering greninja's base 103 spa which is pretty high, it's going to be so awesome.

Thought you shoulld know that Gunk Shot is a physical move. It is great for Greninja though, especially because a lot if fairies are Specially Defensive.

 

[theninjadoesnotspin]

I just wanted to drop my thoughts on the Gourgeist line's acquisition of Synthesis. While I don't feel like it's anything game changing, I do believe the addition of the new move gives the Gourgeist line a chance to break out of the depths of PU.

I feel like this idea is merited as Gourgeist-Super is only slightly less physically bulky (albeit having more HP) than Ferrothorn, and now has access to more reliable recovery in addition to Leech Seed. I feel like that just opens a lot of doors for the pumpkin.

Sadly I feel like its lack of special bulk will keep it from going anywhere near true viabiltiy in OU (outside of stall teams maybe) seeing as how M-Pidgeot and M-Lati@s are sure to be all over the place.

Possible Set

Gourgeist-Large @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis
- Shadow Sneak

Just as an idea of what this thing can take, here's a calc:
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Large: 144-170 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

To sum it up, Gourgeist may actually be okay for stall when ORAS comes out.

 

[master_marshmallow]

So, Char X seems to only be discussed when being compared to new DD users, does he have a role in the new meta? Dat 100 base speed is weak compared to Mega Mence, so he needs time to set up, even then, is he fast enough?

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

So, Char X seems to only be discussed when being compared to new DD users, does he have a role in the new meta? Dat 100 base speed is weak compared to Mega Mence, so he needs time to set up, even then, is he fast enough?

Comparing any mega to to Mega Mence are unfair, it's so borked.

Beyond getting checked by M-Altaria, I don't think X-zard lost all that much in the transition to ORAS.

 

[Kurona]

So, Char X seems to only be discussed when being compared to new DD users, does he have a role in the new meta? Dat 100 base speed is weak compared to Mega Mence, so he needs time to set up, even then, is he fast enough?

Mega Zard X is pretty much outclassed by Mega Mence in every sense aside from burn immunity, but most everyone here considers that a moot point since 'mence is 99% gonna get banned so w/e
honestly if mence is banned zard X should still keep a very good place in OU; perhaps not quite as good as before due to having a new check or two, getting nothing new and competing for the Mega slot with a lot of others, but it's still gonna be a very dangerous threat to prepare for.

 

[Force Majeure]

I just wanted to drop my thoughts on the Gourgeist line's acquisition of Synthesis....

Gourgeist is one of those pokes that is somewhat tier agnostic; by that I mean that it performs its role fairly consistently across tiers. A few (especially defensive) pokes are like this; Hippowdon (OU & UU), Alomomola (RU, UU, OU), etc. In your calcs, I think you used Gourg-L, which IIRC is completely outclassed by Gourg-XL (just like Gourg-M is worse than Gourg-S).

I think Synthesis helps, BUT Gourg's niche is still pretty small because Gourg-Small is mostly outclassed as a fast WoWer by Sableye, who obvs has Prankster, so its niche is really "WoW + Leech Seed + nifty typing".

I'm not a huge fan of the set you posted because it kind of just sits there; having only Shadow Sneak as an attacking move is almost unacceptably passive. Maybe Seed Bomb would work better? It hits T-Tar, M-Pert, Hippo, Exca, and waters much better than Shadow Sneak, which is good against... Zam? Gardevoir? I may be missing something; if so, point it out.

I agree completely that Gourg looks a lot better for stall with reliable recovery, esp. because its typing allows it to bother Lando (bar Knock Off), most Water-Types (bar Greninja), and Sand Offense in general.

I'm a bit conflicted about Gourg in OU, to say the least.

 

[zbr]

Mega Zard X is pretty much outclassed by Mega Mence in every sense aside from burn immunity, but most everyone here considers that a moot point since 'mence is 99% gonna get banned so w/e
honestly if mence is banned zard X should still keep a very good place in OU; perhaps not quite as good as before due to having a new check or two, getting nothing new and competing for the Mega slot with a lot of others, but it's still gonna be a very dangerous threat to prepare for.

If you have enough balls, you can run refresh mence. Burn is now no longer a major problem. The sub that you sacrifice in terms of boosting to make up for that constant threatening flying stab Aerilate boosted move that has little fear for burns is pretty decent.

 

[theninjadoesnotspin]

Gourgeist is one of those pokes that is somewhat tier agnostic; by that I mean that it performs its role fairly consistently across tiers. A few (especially defensive) pokes are like this; Hippowdon (OU & UU), Alomomola (RU, UU, OU), etc. In your calcs, I think you used Gourg-L, which IIRC is completely outclassed by Gourg-XL (just like Gourg-M is worse than Gourg-S).

I think Synthesis helps, BUT Gourg's niche is still pretty small because Gourg-Small is mostly outclassed as a fast WoWer by Sableye, who obvs has Prankster, so its niche is really "WoW + Leech Seed + nifty typing".

I'm not a huge fan of the set you posted because it kind of just sits there; having only Shadow Sneak as an attacking move is almost unacceptably passive. Maybe Seed Bomb would work better? It hits T-Tar, M-Pert, Hippo, Exca, and waters much better than Shadow Sneak, which is good against... Zam? Gardevoir? I may be missing something; if so, point it out.

I agree completely that Gourg looks a lot better for stall with reliable recovery, esp. because its typing allows it to bother Lando (bar Knock Off), most Water-Types (bar Greninja), and Sand Offense in general.

I'm a bit conflicted about Gourg in OU, to say the least.

As for Gourgeist v. Sableye, while priority WoW is nice, I feel like the sheer bulk of Gourg gives it an advantage. Now of course Sableye could be mega, in which case Gourgeist still holds its niche as it doesn't take up a Mega slot.

Now with the set I posted: you're definitely right, Seed Bomb is definitely a better choice and I meant to put Gourgeist-Super but it seems I wasn't paying much attention. I've included new set details and calc(s) below. I felt that Flamethrower and Fire Blast with a Relaxed were worth at least noting as it does dent Ferrothorn and Scizor. If people can include it on Blissey sets, then I can include it on a Gourgeist set dammit.

Possible Set & Calcs

Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish / Relaxed Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis
- Seed Bomb/Flamethrower/Fire Blast

Just as an idea of what this thing can take/dish out, here's some calcs:

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 185-225 (49.4 - 60.1%) -- approx. 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 212-252 (56.6 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers
+2 252+ Atk Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 90-106 (24 - 28.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 126-150 (33.6 - 40.1%) -- 35% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gourgeist-Super: 158-186 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 198-234 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers

0 Atk Gourgeist-Super Seed Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 316-376 (92.6 - 110.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Gourgeist-Super Seed Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 116-140 (28.7 - 34.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Gourgeist-Super Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 276-328 (70 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Gourgeist-Super Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 116-140 (29.4 - 35.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Gourgeist-Super Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 184-220 (53.6 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Gourgeist-Super Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 156-184 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Gourgeist-Super Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 156-188 (44.3 - 53.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Gourgeist-Super Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 132-156 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[totoTavros]

As for Gourgeist v. Sableye, while priority WoW is nice, I feel like the sheer bulk of Gourg gives it an advantage. Now of course Sableye could be mega, in which case Gourgeist still holds its niche as it doesn't take up a Mega slot.

Now with the set I posted: you're definitely right, Seed Bomb is definitely a better choice and I meant to put Gourgeist-Super but it seems I wasn't paying much attention. I've included new set details and calc(s) below. I felt that Flamethrower and Fire Blast with a Relaxed were worth at least noting as it does dent Ferrothorn and Scizor. If people can include it on Blissey sets, then I can include it on a Gourgeist set dammit.

Possible Set & Calcs

Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish / Relaxed Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis
- Seed Bomb/Flamethrower/Fire Blast

Just as an idea of what this thing can take/dish out, here's some calcs:

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 185-225 (49.4 - 60.1%) -- approx. 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 212-252 (56.6 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers
+2 252+ Atk Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 90-106 (24 - 28.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 126-150 (33.6 - 40.1%) -- 35% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gourgeist-Super: 158-186 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 198-234 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers

0 Atk Gourgeist-Super Seed Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 316-376 (92.6 - 110.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Gourgeist-Super Seed Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 116-140 (28.7 - 34.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Gourgeist-Super Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 276-328 (70 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Gourgeist-Super Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 116-140 (29.4 - 35.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Gourgeist-Super Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 184-220 (53.6 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Gourgeist-Super Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 156-184 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Gourgeist-Super Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 156-188 (44.3 - 53.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Gourgeist-Super Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 132-156 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Why is it Charizard not Mega Charizard X? And why isn't it using a fire move? Flare Blitz will definitely OHKO and idk about Fire Punch.
Why is MegaTar not @ +1 if it's Jolly?

 

[theninjadoesnotspin]

Why is it Charizard not Mega Charizard X? And why isn't it using a fire move? Flare Blitz will definitely OHKO and idk about Fire Punch.
Why is MegaTar not @ +1 if it's Jolly?

I thought that calc looked suspicious. And well yes, it will OHKO if it's using Flare Blitz or Fire Punch at +2, that's a given. Nonetheless the real calc is below.

+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 238-282 (63.6 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As for the MTtar calc, here's that:

+1 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 294-348 (78.6 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

 

[UnicornDemon2]

So, it's pretty well established that Mega-Sableye is the second best mega evolution after Salamence, right? I mean, he shuts down every single defensive Pokemon in the tier apart from fairy types like Clefairy or Sylveon. That's pretty significant. He also shuts down most physical attackers with will-o-wisp, and the support he provides in beating every single stealth rock setter apart from Clefable is invaluable.

 

[Celticpride]

So with all this new toy syndrome, I'd like to talk about some old Megas that still play well. Time to break out the bullet points!

• Mega Scizor: I'm now convinced Mega Scizor will never not adapt to a new meta. It fits on basically any team, and it's bulk allows it to check a lot of the new Megas out there. Checks Mega Lopunny, Mega Sceptile, DD Mega Altaria, Mega Metagross, Mega Beedrill, Mega Diancie, and non-HP Fire Mega Lati@s. It can also come in on Sharpedo if it goes for the Speed Boost-Protect. Heck, it even beats Gallade 1v1 and can break Slowbro and that CM Latias set with SD+Bug Bite. All of that is using the offensive SD set, Arceus only knows what the bulkier sets can check/counter.
• Mega Aerodactyl: Similar to Scizor, Aero checks a ton of new threats. It can emergency check some Mega Salamence and counters Mega Beedrill. It can beat max Special Attack Timid/Naive Mega Sceptile 1v1, and solidly checks basically every Sceptile out there. It can also check/revenge a ton of more common threats and new Megas. Aero's always been a little underrated, but it may finally rise to OU in the ORAS meta.
• Mega Heracross: Sub Mega Hera breaks both of the new Stall Megas, Mega Slowbro and Mega Sableye, very easy. Mega Medi hates both of them and really got hurt with the shift imo. Gardevoir also breaks both, but the new Mega that Heracross hates (Mence) is probably gone, while the new Mega Gard hates most (Metagross) is going to be common but not broken. Heracross doesn't like Metagross either, but Hera can at least dent it on the switch (both STABs cross 50% damage easily). Gallade's better than all three overall, but Medi got really screwed.
• Mega Manectric: Plays really well in the wide open HO ladder, and also checks/revenges a lot of the new toys similar to Aero. Pretty decent Mega Salamence check outside of Earthquake. Does the exact same thing it did before, but it really didn't get outclassed by anything new (no new Electric type Megas? makes me think they aren't all revealed because they did one for every type in XY).

Ignored the obvious Gyara and Absol, because they got new moves or new legal move combos. Anyone else use anything from XY?

 

[Jukain]

Wanted to bring up this lord.

Sableye @ Sableite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Recover

Recently I've been experimenting with a bunch of different things, some good and some bad, and Mega Sableye is definitely one of those good things. CM Wisp Mega Sableye just straight up takes souls. Unfortunately I don't have any replays of any really recent version of my Mega Sableye stall, but it puts in work. The thing Mega Sableye does is offer stall teams pressure, flexibility, and control of the hazard game. Mega Sableye beats pretty much all of the tier's Stealth Rock users besides SR Landorus-I, which is rare anyways, and Heatran, which can be dealt with by Tentacruel (an excellent partner for synergetic reasons, mostly taking on Fairies). I'm talking things like Mamoswine, Garchomp, Terrakion, Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, Tyranitar, Jirachi, Chansey, etc., all these common SR setters. It also means that it's difficult to pressure stall with something like Spikes Ferrothorn, as Sableye just comes in for free. It also spinblocks, which is pretty big for maintaining your own hazards in terms of the sand matchup.

Besides controlling the hazard game when Mega Evolved, Mega Sableye can also put in a lot of work as just normal Sableye, spreading Prankster Will-O-Wisp and in many cases just outright demolishing offensive and balanced teams. And that's another place Mega Sableye shines: sweeping. Usually, against more offensive teams, you don't evolve it right off the bat and instead run around spreading Will-O-Wisps and maybe firing off a Shadow Ball or too, applying pressure to the opposing team and weakening down threats to the point where all of Mega Sableye's answers are worn out by late-game. On my team I pair this with a full array of hazards to amplify this pressure and really allow Mega Sableye to shine. Once this pressure has taken its toll, you can Mega Evolve Sableye, potentially, and set up to sweep. Sometimes, this can even be done early-game, as a huge amount of teams don't really account for Mega Sableye (particularly on the offensive end of the spectrum, as high physical bulk + Wisp and respectable special bulk + CM boosts combined can make it really hard to break.

calcs to give you an idea of its bulk

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 106-126 (34.8 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 109-130 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 133-156 (43.7 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 132-156 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 118-140 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 204-241 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 116-140 (38.1 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 101-121 (33.2 - 39.8%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Sableye is benefitting from a few metagame trends at the moment as well. Mega Charizard X is currently pretty uncommon, as it to be expected with of course Mega Salamence, but also Mega Altaria, which I consider better than it on the whole for sure. Also, Clefable is being used significantly less with its inability to counter Greninja, and even then non-CM variants lose to Mega Sableye if they switch into Calm Mind or even 1v1 if Sableye hasn't evolved yet (far from uncommon).

So yeah, Mega Sableye is really good. It completely and utterly rips apart so many teams atm. I'd post replays, but I really don't save them so I don't have any good ones around. However, I've seen marked success with it dismantling ridiculous offensive and defensive cores alike in this metagame.

 

[Alphanex20]

So with all this new toy syndrome, I'd like to talk about some old Megas that still play well. Time to break out the bullet points!

• Mega Scizor: I'm now convinced Mega Scizor will never not adapt to a new meta. It fits on basically any team, and it's bulk allows it to check a lot of the new Megas out there. Checks Mega Lopunny, Mega Sceptile, DD Mega Altaria, Mega Metagross, Mega Beedrill, Mega Diancie, and non-HP Fire Mega Lati@s. It can also come in on Sharpedo if it goes for the Speed Boost-Protect. Heck, it even beats Gallade 1v1 and can break Slowbro and that CM Latias set with SD+Bug Bite. All of that is using the offensive SD set, Arceus only knows what the bulkier sets can check/counter.
• Mega Aerodactyl: Similar to Scizor, Aero checks a ton of new threats. It can emergency check some Mega Salamence and counters Mega Beedrill. It can beat max Special Attack Timid/Naive Mega Sceptile 1v1, and solidly checks basically every Sceptile out there. It can also check/revenge a ton of more common threats and new Megas. Aero's always been a little underrated, but it may finally rise to OU in the ORAS meta.
• Mega Heracross: Sub Mega Hera breaks both of the new Stall Megas, Mega Slowbro and Mega Sableye, very easy. Mega Medi hates both of them and really got hurt with the shift imo. Gardevoir also breaks both, but the new Mega that Heracross hates (Mence) is probably gone, while the new Mega Gard hates most (Metagross) is going to be common but not broken. Heracross doesn't like Metagross either, but Hera can at least dent it on the switch (both STABs cross 50% damage easily). Gallade's better than all three overall, but Medi got really screwed.
• Mega Manectric: Plays really well in the wide open HO ladder, and also checks/revenges a lot of the new toys similar to Aero. Pretty decent Mega Salamence check outside of Earthquake. Does the exact same thing it did before, but it really didn't get outclassed by anything new (no new Electric type Megas? makes me think they aren't all revealed because they did one for every type in XY).

Ignored the obvious Gyara and Absol, because they got new moves or new legal move combos. Anyone else use anything from XY?

MegaZor's not a perfect counter to Slowbro on account of scald, but nice points. Only thing worrisome about M-Hera is that it isn't exactly easy to fit into a team (i.e., unlike Mega-Manectric, you build a team around it rather than slap it in) and Sub loses hard to bulky Sylveon (who also beats MegaEye hard). Aero might not see a huge amount of play until MegaMence (and possibly Gren, if it hits the frying pan) leaves since everyone and their mama is running ice shard or some form of priority (M-Scizor beats it pretty hard if it doesn't have fire fang).

Been using M-Sableye with Toxicroak (of all things) as a decent core as of late. Croak beats mono-attack Slowbro (which Sableye only does so well against thanks to those pesky scald burns and crits) and shreds fairies with gunk shot, but can't come in on jack (its main failing). Curious to see what people are using with MegaEye. I find it likes poison types a lot since (unlike Steels) they cannot be trapped very easily, only Goth and Dug can trap them, and both are setup bait for Sableye anyway (unlike Mag, who can potentially charge beam up on steels like ferro and rip you in half).

 

[Melon Vodka]

In this metagame I think stall is dead. Battles are very fast and offensive now, just thinking M-Salamence and M-Lopunny.. I look as a problem even M-Sceptile, ok, It is x4 weak against ice but its speed is amazing, It's faster than M-Manectric.
Balanced team have gained some gift.. M-Slowbro is too bulky, Regenerator loss is bad, but this guy is hard to kill.. He seems Suicune but stronger than that. RestTalk set is an injustice for the metagame and M-Slowbro is immune to Gothitelle Trick. It's bulky but luckily it's not unstoppable.

Pidgeot is a disappointment. I thought it's strong but its hidden power ground miss the ohko on heatran.. so sad.
Contrarily M-Sableye seems cool.

Earth Power is a cool gift to Diancie (bye heatran), like Crunch to Gyarados.. and I didn't forget Gunk Shot to Greninja. In my opinion Gallade is more.. mmh.. useful than Medicham. Ok, Medicham has immediate power.. But Gallade have nice moverpool with Will-O-Wisp or Shadow Sneak or Knock Off. It's faster than cham and has Swords Dance for immediate boost.

Guys, what about the little M-Sharpedo? What do you think about it?

 

[Josh Mahoney]

What has everybody found to be a solid response to M-Swampert? I want to replace my Rotom-W with Lanturn so opposing Rotom-W don't give me hell, but that leaves me incredibly susceptible to a Mega Swampert sweep, as I need Azumarill alive at high health to have a chance to revenge. This thing is a monster late game under rain.

Maybe ludicolo under rain as well. So long as ludicolo has more investment in speed.

 

[Alphanex20]

Guys, what about the little M-Sharpedo? What do you think about it?

It's still really frail and needs to wait a turn for speed boost to activate before it can even mega evolve, you still see stuff like conkeldurr and talonflame every now and then which can wreck it, but more importantly you see bulky fairies which can take a hit and OHKO it back 90% of the time or the M-Sableye they counter/check which can burn it (normal form has prankster, mega has increased bulk and can take a hit).

 

[Gloating]

Skyark Why would you say stall is dead then bring up that Mega Slowbro is too bulky lol. Stall isn't dead, people are just going nuts over the new Megas right now. As the metagame settles and the obvious departure of this Kite looking thing, stall will be more common. Anyway I found that Hyper Offense has got harder to consistently win with. There's just too many threats to account for. It's pretty much a game of who massacres each other's team first. So yeah bulky offense/balanced is my favorite playstyle right now.

 

[Alphanex20]

Skyark Why would you say stall is dead then bring up that Mega Slowbro is too bulky lol. Stall isn't dead, people are just going nuts over the new Megas right now. As the metagame settles and the obvious departure of this Kite looking thing, stall will be more common. Anyway I found that Hyper Offense has got harder to consistently win with. There's just too many threats to account for. It's pretty much a game of who massacres each other's team first. So yeah bulky offense/balanced is my favorite playstyle right now.

While i dont play stall i have played against other stall players on the higher ladder(1500+), so i dont think it is dead, especially msableye stall semms to be very viable.

I think he meant stall as we knew it in the XY meta (mostly built around M-Venusaur and a SkarmBliss sort of core) which is wrecked by stall's newest toy-Mega Sableye. What I'm interested in is how stall will evolve, M-Slowbro is nice but beaten by anything that is water-immune and can either boost back or taunt it (if it's the RestTalk set) or by status abusers like Mega Eye or random Toxic users (like Heatran, ironically, who can pull the "poison and run" strategy which abuses MegaBro's lack of Regenerator).

What I'm interested in is MegaEye, which I see as far from broken (any special fairy like Clefable or Sylveon can crack it relatively easily, and Lando-I stomps it unless it has too many CMs) but very meta-defining (i.e., in the vein of Aegi as "world's best spinblocker" but trades power/versatility for Magic Bounce). For one thing, certain hazard setters flat-out lose to it and cannot do their job AT ALL with it around (Ferrothorn can't touch it, TTar can't, Chomp only stands a chance if it is low AND has already Mega Evolved, Terrakion can't do jack unless it SDs, which doesnt even guarantee an OHKO).

One of my favorite strategies with it is to have Eye + Defog, basically says "drop hazards, I dare you." Zapdos is nice for beating M-Pinsir hard and Latias handles most lando-I's nicely, but the options are limitless, TBH. I am just glad you can't use it with Mega Pinsir or either M-Charizard (THANK GOD).