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Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

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You want to know who scolipede should baton bass iron defense too? Espeon. Calm mind, stored power, Morning sun, other coverage move, gg

OMG that is such a good idea especially cause magic bounce stops all phazing and stuff. You are a genius for coming up with this set. I bet your could ladder really high with this with practically no skill at all.

Also its not like mega sableye does this even better than espeon.
 
OMG that is such a good idea especially cause magic bounce stops all phazing and stuff. You are a genius for coming up with this set. I bet your could ladder really high with this with practically no skill at all.

Also its not like mega sableye does this even better than espeon.
That's true, but mega sableye needs to take a turn to mega evolve leaving it open to toxic, whirlwind, etc. Espeon has more special attack, HP, and speed, and it doesn't take up a mega slot so it does do some things that mega sableye can't, giving it some merit. Plus it can use stored power for insane amounts of damage and has room for another coverage move. And it can hold an item
 
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I feel like at this point it would be more productive to just theorymon the meta after MMence's ban.
Will Pinsir stop getting shit on by mence become viable again?
Will Ice Sharders like Mamo and Weavile fall out of favor?
What effect with MAltaria, MTile, MLatias, etc. have without Rayquaza's shadow in the meta?
etc.

It just feels rather moot to speculate on the pre-ban meta.
 
That's true, but mega sableye needs to take a turn to mega evolve leaving it open to toxic, whirlwind, etc. Espeon has more special attack, HP, and speed, and it doesn't take up a mega slot so it does do some things that mega sableye can't, giving it some merit. Plus it can use stored power for insane amounts of damage and has room for another coverage move. And it can hold an item

It can also be pursuit trapped and walled entirely by dark types while being annihilated by u-turn spam and even outsped by alot of things. Sableye can still taunt if thats ever an issue and I still see the nonmega form to be just as viable since his main selling point was recover+burn spam.. even sub is a possibly, something espeon lacks the bulk and typing to abuse as good.
 
It can also be pursuit trapped and walled entirely by dark types while being annihilated by u-turn spam and even outsped by alot of things. Sableye can still taunt if thats ever an issue and I still see the nonmega form to be just as viable since his main selling point was recover+burn spam.. even sub is a possibly, something espeon lacks the bulk and typing to abuse as good.
Outsped? A base 110 speed stat boosted by speed boost isn't going to be outsped if u can get enough speed, something sableye cant do. U turn is a problem ill admit, but as long as u don't switch out u don't have to worry about being pursuit trapped and u could always carry a HP fighting or fire for those dark, bug, and steel types respectively. And u can have leftovers for sustain. True sableye does have a lot more bulk and wil-o-wisp, but Espeon much cheaper since it doesn't take up a mega slot and has several niches over sableye to make it a reliable choice for scolipedes baton passes
 
ok lets stray away from cancer pass, and talk about another god that swims among us. Mega-Sharpedo, my lord I just made a team with him and 3 games in a row he swept like 3-6 mons here are some replays.

These were my first three games with this team(which is admittedly not that good) I just made a team that could handle things with priority like conkeldurr and talonflame. Here is the very basic/standard set Im using:

Sharpedo @ Sharpedite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang

I mean the replays really speak for themselves, but I guess I could speak to how he operates and should be used. When I start the game the things I look for on the opponents team are potential scarfers/ferrothorn/azumarill/conkeldurr/talonflame/stall/stallbreaker mons, most of these mons get worn out throughout the match or can get trapped(since trappers are life right now) but then I just start sacking things in order to wear them down, which also gives my opponent the sense that they are winning, then mega sharpedo just comes through. Luckily it gets the bulk after mega to live at least one priority moves from most mons, crunch hits insanely hard and should be used in most situations, as you saw against noivern I opted for crunch because I didnt want to risk the 95% accuracy and crunch hits crazy hard so I figured it would kill. Anyway pretty self explanatory mon, let me know what you guys think.
 
Yea this is what I imagine a standard sharpedo set to look like. Don't mean that as a negative, in fact this will the standard set because of its power. If you fear some physical walls, giving it a naughty nature with something like hydro pump can help with that problem
 
Ferrothorn can use Protect, yes, but there's usually no switch-ins (or very rare) to Focus Punch and Play Rough combo. Skarmory can Whirlwind, but what? Loses 66% or so of its HP? I'll take it. The main niche of SubPunch Azu is that it can beat both Ferrothorn or Skarmory (Or at least heavily weaken the latter) without being locked into anything, and simultaneously. Azumarill cannot beat both Ferrothorn and Skarmory simultaneously, because it has to be locked into one move, unless maybe if the opponent is really dumb and you have rocks up, but that has a low chance of happening.

Also, obviously nobody in his right mind will use Chansey to counter Azumarill, but SubPunch can set up on Chansey, even if Chansey stayed in for some reason, like being really pressured to use Heal Bell.

As for not using Aqua Jet, that have bitten me in the back sometimes, but having Sub really makes me afford losing Aqua Jet, and I do admit Aqua Jet is important to any Azu set but Sub seems to handle it alone well, I may put over Toxic as you said though.

In the end it's your choice to use this or not, but its working great for me.

MegaScizor I'd use 96 HP / 252+ Atk / 160 Spe Mega Sharpedo, which means you outspeed everything at +1, Mega Sharpedo actually has very decent bulk so it's worth it, especially since you have to run Jolly to outspeed Scarf Lando at +1, which is, IMO, not worth it.
 
ok lets stray away from cancer pass, and talk about another god that swims among us. Mega-Sharpedo, my lord I just made a team with him and 3 games in a row he swept like 3-6 mons here are some replays.

These were my first three games with this team(which is admittedly not that good) I just made a team that could handle things with priority like conkeldurr and talonflame. Here is the very basic/standard set Im using:

Sharpedo @ Sharpedite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang

I mean the replays really speak for themselves, but I guess I could speak to how he operates and should be used. When I start the game the things I look for on the opponents team are potential scarfers/ferrothorn/azumarill/conkeldurr/talonflame/stall/stallbreaker mons, most of these mons get worn out throughout the match or can get trapped(since trappers are life right now) but then I just start sacking things in order to wear them down, which also gives my opponent the sense that they are winning, then mega sharpedo just comes through. Luckily it gets the bulk after mega to live at least one priority moves from most mons, crunch hits insanely hard and should be used in most situations, as you saw against noivern I opted for crunch because I didnt want to risk the 95% accuracy and crunch hits crazy hard so I figured it would kill. Anyway pretty self explanatory mon, let me know what you guys think.

Actually, you could even try using DBond Mega Sharpedo at some point (yes it gets that now), it's not so much as a sweeper but a hole puncher at that point, simply let it rip and DBond before it goes down. You said it yourself it has good bulk, so you can take a hit and maybe bait in a wall you cannot kill (bulky Fairy-types come to mind like Clefable) then DBond to eliminate it as it KOs you.
 
ok lets stray away from cancer pass, and talk about another god that swims among us. Mega-Sharpedo, my lord I just made a team with him and 3 games in a row he swept like 3-6 mons here are some replays.


I don't mean to detract from your overall point, but my god that first replay...
  • leaving Latias in on Clefable
  • latias using ice beam on clefable
  • switching infernape into clefable (???)
  • sacking megagross (his best msharpedo check) to chomp, for no reason
  • switching infernape into clefable AGAIN (seriously what the hell)
 
I don't mean to detract from your overall point, but my god that first replay...
  • leaving Latias in on Clefable
  • latias using ice beam on clefable
  • switching infernape into clefable (???)
  • sacking megagross (his best msharpedo check) to chomp, for no reason
  • switching infernape into clefable AGAIN (seriously what the hell)
Yeah I agree some questionable(bad) plays for sure, but metagross doesnt do anything against sharpedo

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 320-378 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

This is including the defense boost mega metagross gets, I dont know his evs but I doubt he even had max hp.
 
I've been using Timid Mega Alakazam on the ladder, and it actually plays really well. It's still got absurd power without Modest (around 450 special attack), and running Psyshock, Calm Mind/Taunt, and two of Dazzling Gleam, Focus Blast or Shadow Ball gives it great coverage and utility. It's a great revenge killer to pretty much every new fast Mega, and with Calm Mind it can actually break down some of the slower ones. It may not be top of OU great, but I've had some pretty decent success with it. It's also got some great new abilities to steal, including Swift Swim, Adaptability, Sheer Force, Lightingrod, and Magic Bounce. Again, not revolutionary or overpowered or anything, but still outspeeding everything is a great asset.
 
Ferrothorn can use Protect, yes, but there's usually no switch-ins (or very rare) to Focus Punch and Play Rough combo. Skarmory can Whirlwind, but what? Loses 66% or so of its HP? I'll take it. The main niche of SubPunch Azu is that it can beat both Ferrothorn or Skarmory (Or at least heavily weaken the latter) without being locked into anything, and simultaneously. Azumarill cannot beat both Ferrothorn and Skarmory simultaneously, because it has to be locked into one move, unless maybe if the opponent is really dumb and you have rocks up, but that has a low chance of happening.

Also, obviously nobody in his right mind will use Chansey to counter Azumarill, but SubPunch can set up on Chansey, even if Chansey stayed in for some reason, like being really pressured to use Heal Bell.

As for not using Aqua Jet, that have bitten me in the back sometimes, but having Sub really makes me afford losing Aqua Jet, and I do admit Aqua Jet is important to any Azu set but Sub seems to handle it alone well, I may put over Toxic as you said though.

In the end it's your choice to use this or not, but its working great for me.
That niche would be cool and all if its other sets didn't already do that. SubPunch actually has a worse matchup against Skarmory anyway since BB will always break your Sub and you can't even 2HKO with Rocks up. Plus Whirlwind exists.

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 113-134 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 129-153 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 91.1% chance to 3HKO (guaranteed after Stealth Rock)


Setting up on Chansey isn't exactly a major accomplishment when so much shit threatens it out anyway. You're better off just using Knock Off on anyone stupid enough to leave their Chansey in on you.
 
Is there a general consensus as to what M-Metagross's best set is?

I don't think so, he's extremely versatile and takes hits from anything. I felt that his 110 speed tier is a bit of a trap and maxing it out, going jolly, is a huge sacrifice when he could alternatively do something like 252 HP EVs and stealth rock. Especially considering that all those speed EVs are completely wasted against talonflame, greninja, manetric, loppuny, sceptile, salamence, and so on.

Just how important is outspeeding keldeo and garchomps (both of whom often scarfed)? You absolutely have to decide for yourself. You can go adamant with agility, a mixed set with grass knot, or 4 physical attacks. Bullet punch has uses but not every set needs it.

There is an extremely significant power loss going from adamant > jolly with implications on beating things like skarmory.

Metagross is one of my favorite megas and I'm still experimenting with him, but I highly reccomend using all of Meteor Mash, Hammer Arm, and Thunder Punch. Leaving a 4th move for anything you feel like.
 
The Stored Power set of Latias is underwhelming. Against stall it wrecks but against offense it is complete deadweight because it's too slow in terms of set up (and actual speed if you make it bulky)

EDIT: Also completely separate point but Mega Sableye is unbelievable. Most people have zero clue how to deal with it
 
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The Stored Power set of Latias is underwhelming. Against stall it wrecks but against offense it is complete deadweight because it's too slow in terms of set up (and actual speed if you make it bulky)

Is there the same problem if latias has a boost in speed thanks to Baton pass (Scolipede)?

EDIT: Ah, now understand. I forgot Latias has not magic bounce, it weak against taunt, roar, etc.
 
Alrighty, time to clear up some misconceptions about BP...

1. As far as BP recievers go, M-Sable does NOT outclass espeon, at all. It's offenses are actually quite lackluster since it lacks stored power, most notably it's hardwalled by chansey, even at +6, should you not invest in SPA or run something dumb like focus punch. Furthermore, Sableye is slow af, and fails to outspeed even positive natured base 100s at +6. Most significantly, this means that sableye is outsped by mega gard, no matter how many boosts you accumulate. This means that mega gard can easily stop your sweep cold, which is unacceptable. As a defensive magic bouncer, Sableye is unmatched, but he is utter garbage as a BP sweeper and I would literally consider m-absol before considering him.

2. Latias, on the other hand, is well worth considering. If you manage to bait out most/all phasers and crippling status, you can easily go to town with a sweep. The biggest problem here is thundy, who can easily remove your speed advantage and make you considerably more vulnerable to being revenged. However, the only status effects that latias doesn't really care about are leech seed, regular poison, and burn. The only real team I know of that really fits that bill are rain offense teams and HO teams without sash loom or t-wave thundy (which are pretty much non-existent, courtesy of megamence). I feel like M-Latias will fair quite well on semistall and balanced teams looking for a wincon/wall in one (much like UU suicune), but I feel iffy on it's ability as a BP sweeper. It may make a decent backup sweeper, but then you run into problems of having way too many overlapping weaknesses.

Nice lol, but what sucks is that Latias doesn't get taunt to avoid getting phazed (I wanted to use taunt Lati to beat MegaBro, but I settled on something else). Scoli's biggest nightmares nowadays are Quagsire, Zapdos (if it gets in and roars it out w/o taking a rock slide), and above all skarmory (walls it, phases it out, defogs the hazards, and does a potential huge amount with Brave Bird).

3. Not even close. ID scoli simply does not care about non-haze quagsire, nor does espeon. Phasers are a pain, but most of the time scoli can still pass +2 def and +1 speed to espeon before getting phased out, which is often times enough to sweep. Furthermore, smart wobbuffet play can turn phasers into setup bait, as most phasers are carrying SR and will use it the first chance they get, making them total encore bait. Scolipede's biggest nightmares (at least for my team) are taunt roar tran (and skarm to a lesser extent), rain teams, thundy in general, manaphy and NPers.


It can also be pursuit trapped and walled entirely by dark types while being annihilated by u-turn spam and even outsped by alot of things. Sableye can still taunt if thats ever an issue and I still see the nonmega form to be just as viable since his main selling point was recover+burn spam.. even sub is a possibly, something espeon lacks the bulk and typing to abuse as good.

4. BP receiver espeon could hardly care less about being pursuit trapped, because once it has it's boosts, it's planning on staying until either it dies or your team does. In fact, espeon generally laughs at pursuit because it's so darn weak. After 2 speed boosts, pretty much the only relevant thing that outspeeds it is sand rush excadrill (which, to be sure, is a pain). After 3, nothing that has any relevance will outspeed espeon. U-turn spam usually fails for the same reason, it's just not strong enough to break espeon at +4 or +6 defense. The reason why espeon isn't always running sub isn't that it lacks bulk, but it lacks the moveslots. It needs all of morning sun(to sustain the sweep), CM, coverage move (to not get walled by dark types), and stored power. It simply lacks the ability to ditch a moveslot for subs, as much as it would appreciate it.
 
I've been using this and it's very good:

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance

Earthquake gives perfect coverage vs Heatrans, Diancies, M-Metagross, and other threats. M-Salamence really don't need any Dragon Stab, cuz return is already ridiculous strong, if u can get a Sub + DD, it's GG.

Skarmory can stop this set hard, so, maybe a Fire Blast instead of DD should be nice.
 
ok lets stray away from cancer pass, and talk about another god that swims among us. Mega-Sharpedo, my lord I just made a team with him and 3 games in a row he swept like 3-6 mons here are some replays.

These were my first three games with this team(which is admittedly not that good) I just made a team that could handle things with priority like conkeldurr and talonflame. Here is the very basic/standard set Im using:

Sharpedo @ Sharpedite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang

I mean the replays really speak for themselves, but I guess I could speak to how he operates and should be used. When I start the game the things I look for on the opponents team are potential scarfers/ferrothorn/azumarill/conkeldurr/talonflame/stall/stallbreaker mons, most of these mons get worn out throughout the match or can get trapped(since trappers are life right now) but then I just start sacking things in order to wear them down, which also gives my opponent the sense that they are winning, then mega sharpedo just comes through. Luckily it gets the bulk after mega to live at least one priority moves from most mons, crunch hits insanely hard and should be used in most situations, as you saw against noivern I opted for crunch because I didnt want to risk the 95% accuracy and crunch hits crazy hard so I figured it would kill. Anyway pretty self explanatory mon, let me know what you guys think.

I use sharpedo often as well. It was the first new mega I built around! The only downside to sharpedo is that it's entirely match up based. If you face an offensive team and get rid of there water type or bulky fairy ya Sharpedo will sweep :]. Unfortunately against more defensively oriented teams Sharpedo struggles as it has no good way of setting up and breaking past bulky mons.

These are just my thoughts of course. But after seeing those replays im definitely going to build another team around it! :]
 
I don't think so, he's extremely versatile and takes hits from anything. I felt that his 110 speed tier is a bit of a trap and maxing it out, going jolly, is a huge sacrifice when he could alternatively do something like 252 HP EVs and stealth rock. Especially considering that all those speed EVs are completely wasted against talonflame, greninja, manetric, loppuny, sceptile, salamence, and so on.

Just how important is outspeeding keldeo and garchomps (both of whom often scarfed)? You absolutely have to decide for yourself. You can go adamant with agility, a mixed set with grass knot, or 4 physical attacks. Bullet punch has uses but not every set needs it.

There is an extremely significant power loss going from adamant > jolly with implications on beating things like skarmory.

Metagross is one of my favorite megas and I'm still experimenting with him, but I highly reccomend using all of Meteor Mash, Hammer Arm, and Thunder Punch. Leaving a 4th move for anything you feel like.
I think an agility set could prove to be very effective, I'm on a phone so I have not the maths, but get him to the point with speed EVs where an agility let's him out speed mega aero and you win with the extra EVs going into bulk.
 
I think an agility set could prove to be very effective, I'm on a phone so I have not the maths, but get him to the point with speed EVs where an agility let's him out speed mega aero and you win with the extra EVs going into bulk.
For an agility set, 28 speed EVs lets you outspeed base speed 110 scarfers after 1 Agility. The only issue with the Agility set is you really miss that 4th offensive move. If you drop Earthquake, you become Mag bait and Ice punch is really appreciated (albeit maybe the least necessary move) to take on Gliscor, Lando-T, Skarmory, Mega-Sal, and other threats I'm probably forgetting. You could also drop Meteor Mash or Zen Headbutt, but Meteor Mash is really the only reason to use Mega-Gross (to wipe out Clefable, Mega-Altaria, etc.) and Zen Headbutt is nice to nuke Keldeo, Mega-Venusaur and Fighting Megas. Personally, I've tried BPing an Agility Boost to Mega-Gross, which is nice (if a bit gimmicky) since there's little that can switch in on him after that. Pre-Mega Salamence and Slowbro are the only ones I can think of at the moment.
 
I don't think so, he's extremely versatile and takes hits from anything. I felt that his 110 speed tier is a bit of a trap and maxing it out, going jolly, is a huge sacrifice when he could alternatively do something like 252 HP EVs and stealth rock. Especially considering that all those speed EVs are completely wasted against talonflame, greninja, manetric, loppuny, sceptile, salamence, and so on.

Just how important is outspeeding keldeo and garchomps (both of whom often scarfed)? You absolutely have to decide for yourself. You can go adamant with agility, a mixed set with grass knot, or 4 physical attacks. Bullet punch has uses but not every set needs it.

There is an extremely significant power loss going from adamant > jolly with implications on beating things like skarmory.

Metagross is one of my favorite megas and I'm still experimenting with him, but I highly reccomend using all of Meteor Mash, Hammer Arm, and Thunder Punch. Leaving a 4th move for anything you feel like.

Been wondering if Power-Up Punch deserves any mention, it gets the tough claws boost and is Metagross' only (useable) way of increasing its attack. I mean, max speed jolly with Power-Up might be worth it if it lets you outpace non-scarf Keldeo/Garchomp/Terrakion along with Landorus (the Incarnate form is almost always life orb, scarfed every now and then) and go to town with +1 Zen Headbutt/Meteor Mash/Coverage move.
 
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Alrighty, time to clear up some misconceptions about BP...

1. As far as BP recievers go, M-Sable does NOT outclass espeon, at all. It's offenses are actually quite lackluster since it lacks stored power, most notably it's hardwalled by chansey, even at +6, should you not invest in SPA or run something dumb like focus punch. Furthermore, Sableye is slow af, and fails to outspeed even positive natured base 100s at +6. Most significantly, this means that sableye is outsped by mega gard, no matter how many boosts you accumulate. This means that mega gard can easily stop your sweep cold, which is unacceptable. As a defensive magic bouncer, Sableye is unmatched, but he is utter garbage as a BP sweeper and I would literally consider m-absol before considering him.

2. Latias, on the other hand, is well worth considering. If you manage to bait out most/all phasers and crippling status, you can easily go to town with a sweep. The biggest problem here is thundy, who can easily remove your speed advantage and make you considerably more vulnerable to being revenged. However, the only status effects that latias doesn't really care about are leech seed, regular poison, and burn. The only real team I know of that really fits that bill are rain offense teams and HO teams without sash loom or t-wave thundy (which are pretty much non-existent, courtesy of megamence). I feel like M-Latias will fair quite well on semistall and balanced teams looking for a wincon/wall in one (much like UU suicune), but I feel iffy on it's ability as a BP sweeper. It may make a decent backup sweeper, but then you run into problems of having way too many overlapping weaknesses.



3. Not even close. ID scoli simply does not care about non-haze quagsire, nor does espeon. Phasers are a pain, but most of the time scoli can still pass +2 def and +1 speed to espeon before getting phased out, which is often times enough to sweep. Furthermore, smart wobbuffet play can turn phasers into setup bait, as most phasers are carrying SR and will use it the first chance they get, making them total encore bait. Scolipede's biggest nightmares (at least for my team) are taunt roar tran (and skarm to a lesser extent), rain teams, thundy in general, manaphy and NPers.




4. BP receiver espeon could hardly care less about being pursuit trapped, because once it has it's boosts, it's planning on staying until either it dies or your team does. In fact, espeon generally laughs at pursuit because it's so darn weak. After 2 speed boosts, pretty much the only relevant thing that outspeeds it is sand rush excadrill (which, to be sure, is a pain). After 3, nothing that has any relevance will outspeed espeon. U-turn spam usually fails for the same reason, it's just not strong enough to break espeon at +4 or +6 defense. The reason why espeon isn't always running sub isn't that it lacks bulk, but it lacks the moveslots. It needs all of morning sun(to sustain the sweep), CM, coverage move (to not get walled by dark types), and stored power. It simply lacks the ability to ditch a moveslot for subs, as much as it would appreciate it.

Fair enough, I'll be the first to admit I'm not even close to a BP expert, but you still have to acknowledge that M-Sableye is a problem for BP (and Scolipede in general), no scolipede appreciates getting burned, you can't set up hazards on it, and it can CM in your face until the cows come home (and last I checked Scolipede can only pass defense boosts not special defense boosts).

EDIT: I can't spell
 
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Fair enough, I'll be the first to admit I'm not even close to a BP expert, but you still have to acknowledge that M-Sableye is a problem for BP (and Scolipede in general), no scolipede appreciates getting burned, you can't set up hazards on it, and it can CM in your face until the cows come home (and last I checked Scolipede can only pass defense boosts not special defense boosts).

EDIT: I can't spell

sable is a problem for BP because it forces espeon to run dazzling gleam over HP fighting, weakening it to Bisharp and ttar, which are two exceedingly troublesome and common mons that need to die ASAP when they come in. Non-offensive scoli really doesn't care about getting burned (though he cares a great deal about prankster taunt). Hazard lead scoli (not the same as dedicated BP scoli btw) doesn't enjoy getting hazards bounced to be sure, but by the same token mega sable isn't stopping scoli from passing out a few speed boosts to whatever so it roughly evens out.

Also, believe it or not, espeon actually beats m-sable in a CM war.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-180874928

Yeah, that base 20 speed can really bite him in the ass sometimes.
 
sable is a problem for BP because it forces espeon to run dazzling gleam over HP fighting, weakening it to Bisharp and ttar, which are two exceedingly troublesome and common mons that need to die ASAP when they come in. Non-offensive scoli really doesn't care about getting burned (though he cares a great deal about prankster taunt). Hazard lead scoli (not the same as dedicated BP scoli btw) doesn't enjoy getting hazards bounced to be sure, but by the same token mega sable isn't stopping scoli from passing out a few speed boosts to whatever so it roughly evens out.

Also, believe it or not, espeon actually beats m-sable in a CM war.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-180874928

Yeah, that base 20 speed can really bite him in the ass sometimes.

Point taken, though your opponent's team wasn't exactly good (I personally would not have stayed in on the latios). Espy didn't come out of that war unscathed and as you said, it's walled more easily (heatran is an example, can potentially burn you with plume if the war with it drags on too long, and Scizor can wallop you easily with Knock Off/U-Turn/Bullet Punch).
 
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