Ladder ORAS Monotype Discussion

[Day Healer]

ok, im gonna go ahead and start a discussion on Hoopa-U.

HOOPA UNBOUND
HP: 80
Attack: 160
Defense: 60
Sp. Atk: 170
Sp. Def: 130
Speed: 80

Pros:
- This thing hits so disgusting hard, on both sides of the spectrum (physical and special)
- Contrary to mega pokemons, it can carry items, further increasing its offensive potential (Life Orb, Scarf, Band, Specs(?), Leftovers+sub, Assault Vest, etc)
- Very spammable stabs on Hyperspace Fury/Knock off, so a choice of power or utility
- Great coverage pool, where you can choose Physical and/or Special attacks (Psychic, Zen Headbutt, Drain Punch, Gunk Shot, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Elemental Punches)
- Lot of people forget Hoopa-U have one of the best sp. def stat in the game. To show on perspective: it have the same special bulk than Latias and only 15 HP less than Umbreon/Sylveon, granting it lot of chances to wreak havoc again special attackers

Cons:
- Very bad physical bulk, with only 60 defense.
- Its speed although average, is not good for the tier standards.

So, in short, is Hoopa-u candidate for a ban or no? Personally i think yes.

From experience it have almost no counters at all, Porygon-2 and Klefki are the things closer to a counter.
There is no way to predict what move Hoopa-U is going to use, you think he is gonna use Hyperspace fury, but you find your Alomomola get smacked by Energy Ball:

0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Energy Ball vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 478-564 (90.3 - 106.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO​

or your Azumarill get wrecked by Gunk shot:

252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 478-564 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO​

lets see hippowdon:

0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 304-359 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
​

umbreon:
​

252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
​

clefable:
​

252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 351-413 (89.3 - 105%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
​

even mandibuzz fall to the rare thunderbolt:
​

0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 250-296 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery​

Yeah, you got the drill...

Maybe someone will say: yeah it hits hard, but is very revenge killable by any physical attacker. But the thing is... revenge kill it is easier said than done, with bulky behemoth partners like Mew, Slowbro, Mandibuzz, which can take most physical hits all day, and can even punish occasional physical attackers/U-turners with Rocky helmet, switching out Hoopa-U to make it wreak even more havoc later is easy.

So yeah, i could like to see a Suspect Test for Hoopa-U

​

 

[Dece1t]

ok, im gonna go ahead and start a discussion on Hoopa-U.

HOOPA UNBOUND
HP: 80
Attack: 160
Defense: 60
Sp. Atk: 170
Sp. Def: 130
Speed: 80

Pros:
- This thing hits so disgusting hard, on both sides of the spectrum (physical and special)
- Contrary to mega pokemons, it can carry items, further increasing its offensive potential (Life Orb, Scarf, Band, Specs(?), Leftovers+sub, Assault Vest, etc)
- Very spammable stabs on Hyperspace Fury/Knock off, so a choice of power or utility
- Great coverage pool, where you can choose Physical and/or Special attacks (Psychic, Zen Headbutt, Drain Punch, Gunk Shot, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Elemental Punches)
- Lot of people forget Hoopa-U had one of the best sp. def stat in the game. To show on perspective: it have the same special bulk than Latias and only 15 HP less than Umbreon/Sylveon, granting it lot of chances to wreak havoc again special attackers

Cons:
- Very bad physical bulk, with only 60 defense.
- Its speed although average, is not good for the tier standards.

So, in short, is Hoopa-u candidate for a ban or no? Personally i think yes.

From experience it have almost no counters at all, Porygon-2 and Klefki are the things closer to a counter.
There is no way to predict what move Hoopa-U is going to use, you think he is gonna use Hyperspace fury, but you find your Alomomola get smacked by Energy Ball:

0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Energy Ball vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 478-564 (90.3 - 106.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO​

or your Azumarill get wrecked by Gunk shot:

252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 478-564 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO​

lets see hippowdon:

0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 304-359 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
​

umbreon:
​

252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
​

clefable:
​

252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 351-413 (89.3 - 105%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
​

even mandibuzz fall to the rare thunderbolt:
​

0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 250-296 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery​

Yeah, you got the drill...

Maybe someone will say: yeah it hits hard, but is very revenge killable by any physical attacker. But the thing is... revenge kill it is easier said than done, with bulky behemoth partners like Mew, Slowbro, Mandibuzz, which can take most physical hits all day, and can even punish occasional physical attackers/U-turners with Rocky helmet, switching out Hoopa-U to make it wreak even more havoc later is easy.

So yeah, i could like to see a Suspect Test for Hoopa-U

​

Tbh, at first, I thought this was outrageous that we let this monster into the meta. After a couple mons of adapting to it, I have a chance in opinions. Yes it is extremely strong, but tbh it isn't hard to take out. Bc of its speed tier, on dark especially, it's usually forced to run scarf (psychic is a different story). So once you know what move it's locked into, it is a lot easier to handle. Suspect on Psychic? Maybe, bc psychic is sorta insane atm. Dark? Nah, probably not.

 

[Day Healer]

Hiya man, still I don't see how is easy to take out a Hoopa unbound, specially again a skilled player which will try to preserve it, not letting it die recklessly like i saw in the lower ladder lol. So Im still not convinced. Anyways I agree it on psychic is more broken than in dark, but lets see what other people think.

 

[SubMindRaikou]

ok, im gonna go ahead and start a discussion on Hoopa-U.

HOOPA UNBOUND
HP: 80
Attack: 160
Defense: 60
Sp. Atk: 170
Sp. Def: 130
Speed: 80

Pros:
- This thing hits so disgusting hard, on both sides of the spectrum (physical and special)
- Contrary to mega pokemons, it can carry items, further increasing its offensive potential (Life Orb, Scarf, Band, Specs(?), Leftovers+sub, Assault Vest, etc)
- Very spammable stabs on Hyperspace Fury/Knock off, so a choice of power or utility
- Great coverage pool, where you can choose Physical and/or Special attacks (Psychic, Zen Headbutt, Drain Punch, Gunk Shot, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Elemental Punches)
- Lot of people forget Hoopa-U had one of the best sp. def stat in the game. To show on perspective: it have the same special bulk than Latias and only 15 HP less than Umbreon/Sylveon, granting it lot of chances to wreak havoc again special attackers

Cons:
- Very bad physical bulk, with only 60 defense.
- Its speed although average, is not good for the tier standards.

So, in short, is Hoopa-u candidate for a ban or no? Personally i think yes.

From experience it have almost no counters at all, Porygon-2 and Klefki are the things closer to a counter.
There is no way to predict what move Hoopa-U is going to use, you think he is gonna use Hyperspace fury, but you find your Alomomola get smacked by Energy Ball:

0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Energy Ball vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 478-564 (90.3 - 106.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO​

or your Azumarill get wrecked by Gunk shot:

252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 478-564 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO​

lets see hippowdon:

0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 304-359 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
​

umbreon:
​

252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
​

clefable:
​

252 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 351-413 (89.3 - 105%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
​

even mandibuzz fall to the rare thunderbolt:
​

0 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 250-296 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery​

Yeah, you got the drill...

Maybe someone will say: yeah it hits hard, but is very revenge killable by any physical attacker. But the thing is... revenge kill it is easier said than done, with bulky behemoth partners like Mew, Slowbro, Mandibuzz, which can take most physical hits all day, and can even punish occasional physical attackers/U-turners with Rocky helmet, switching out Hoopa-U to make it wreak even more havoc later is easy.

So yeah, i could like to see a Suspect Test for Hoopa-U

​

The thing with Hoopa U is that its a stallbreaker/wallbreaker so countering or checking that thing with bulky offense or even stallmons isn't going to work. Latias also feels bulkier since it resists a lot more common things than Hoopa U and because people aren't investing in defenses on Hoopa. While it does have insane attacking stats and amazing movepool I think that the low speed and defensive stat and meh defensive typing hold it back. Also the lack of recovery forces Hoopa U to either be a scarf revenge killer or stallbreaker unless it's on psychic with trick room. Although it does remind me of other coveragemons like Greninja and Genesect just a lot slower.

I would say that Hoopa U should not be banned since a bad speed tier and horrible defenses with only alright synergy hold it back, and because it always seems op on paper but in practice it doesn't reach that standard.

Does anyone remember when some people were saying the only true counter to Hoopa U was AV Drapion? keks

 

[Ghast]

Hey its your boy Ghast!

So since the meta game has settled in a bit more, I wanted to give my input on HOOPA UNBOUND again!

I have been on the ladder and playing around with my ghosties (recently peaked at #6). My opinion hasn't changed (You can read my opinion below). Hoopa Unbound is a BEAST!!! You can literally run anything on that and it gets awesome support on both Psychic and Dark. With that being said, I have changed my mind on what type it needs a ban on.

Read my opinion below!

Hello It's Ghast again.

I wanted to post my thoughts on Hoopa Unbound.

HP 80 / Atk 160 / Def 60 / SpA 170 / SpD 130 / Spe 80 / BST 680

When this pokemon was released I said to myself, the stats to this pokemon are insane.
With stats like that, this pokemon is so unpredictable and its presence alone can shaken teams.
You don't know if it will be Life Orb, Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Choice Band, etc.
It gets almost perfect support on both Psychic and Dark teams which makes it a beast.

Psychic Support: Mew, Slowbro, Deoxys, Meloetta, Victini
Dark Support: Mandibuzz, Tyranitar, Umbreon, Mega Sableye

With the support of those pokemon mentioned above, Hoopa-U has the ability to switch in and switch out and hit something with its tremendous force. It also has a wide move pool that adds to its unpredictability. Not every team has a switch in and if you don't you're forced to sak something on your team in order to retaliate.

Now here are my views as a Ghost user. You can call me biased or whatever but this monster rips through ghost teams like nobody's business.

When Mega Sableye was released, Ghost teams were finally on par with dark teams 50/50. It finally got a chance to beat dark teams. Now that Hoopa U was released, that all changed, once again the dark vs ghost matchup changed from 90/10 in favor of dark. And let's be real. Hoopa U + Meloetta on psychic can easily bop ghost teams left and right making it a 80/20 in favor of psychic. Hoopa U is changing the meta game.

With Hoopa U's signature move "Hyperspace Fury". Ghost Teams don't have the ability to use King's Shield with Aegislash or a sub of any kind. With the support mentioned above, Hoopa-U switches in and out and guaranteeing a KO with every switch. Now with that being said I am forced to change my team so I don't lose to psychic or dark. I have to start running Eviolite Dusclops with Counter or Eviolite Doublade with GyroBall/Sacred Sword and hope for the best but even then, HOOPA UNBOUND GETS KNOCK OFF! So in the end, Hoopa U just bops ghost teams.

Now you have my permission to call me a biased freak but whatever those are my views on the monster that is called Hoopa Unbound. I think we should globally ban it on both psychic and dark because of the tremendous support it gets on both types and the unpredictability to know what it's going to do.

Thank you for reading.

Lets talk about Hoopa on Dark. While laddering I have been facing alot of dark teams and they all have something in common. They all have Hoopa Unbound and they all USUALLY run Choice Scarf Set. This set is most common because of its mediocre speed. Now that Greninja is banned, Hoopa Unbound is Dark's next best thing at helping defeat the Fairy Type. With that being said though, on Dark, Hoopa Unbound is predictable and we all know what set it's going to run.

It's usually a combination of

• Hyperspace Hole
• Zen Headbutt
• Gunk Shot
• Elemental Punches
• Drain Punch
• Energy Ball

Now Hoopa Unbound on psychic is another story. Psychic does not NEED Hoopa Unbound. I feel like Psychic has hit the jackpot right now. It's the type with the most versatility. Right now Psychic has so many viable Physical attackers and Special attackers, its insane. Psychic now has Mega Gallade, Hoopa Unbound, Mega Gardevoir, Victini, and you can basically run all of those on one team if you want. I mean talk about POWER?

I've battled many, many psychic teams on the ladder and psychic is just an overpowered type at the moment. Hoopa Unbound gets the best support on Psychic and it's just too good.

Psychic Support: Mew, Slowbro, Deoxys, Meloetta, Victini, Mega Gardevoir

It's unpredictable on psychic because it does NOT NEED to be a scarf item. It can legit be anything on psychic since the support allows that. You can run trick room, choice specs, choice band, life orb, choice scarf/I also want to mention a matchup that is now one sided, Ghost vs Psychic.
Before Hoopa Unbound, psychic had a fair chance at beating ghost because of Meloetta. Now that Hoopa Unbound has been introduced, the Meloetta + Hoopa Unbound core will almost always defeat ghost teams. Why you may ask? Meloetta allows Hoopa to switch in and out. All the psychic user needs to do is click Hyperspace Fury then switch out. Easy as that. Now you can call me bias but its my opinion and the perspective of a ghost user who ladders a good amount.

Although I have personally come up with a way of dealing with Hoopa Unbound on my ghost team, I feel like the Meloetta AND Hoopa Unbound core is too much. Ghost vs Psychic needs to be balanced. As for other types, like I mentioned before, some teams have problems with Mega Gallade, some with Mega Gardevoir/Victini, adding another huge threat like HOOPA UNBOUND is like adding more gasoline to a fire that's already burning strong and bright.

I do believe we should have a suspect test on Hoopa Unbound. Whether it be to ban on Psychic or ban it globally. Thank you for reading.

 

[DoW]

Ok, as of writing this the new stats may not yet be up on the monotype room's website, but they've been put on smogon so I think it's time for...
Episode three of DoW's Amature Stat Analysis and Bad Excel Graphs! This time featuring guest host, Death on Drink!
(this is what the refrance) (also I'm not that drunk, I promise)
Now, the first thing we need to look at is the number of times each type was used.

A few things stand out. Firstly, Flying is up massively alongside rises in Steel, Dark and Poison, and minor rises in Psychic, Wtaer, Fairy and Electric. At the same time, Bug has lost loads of usage alongside drops in Dragon, Ground, Fighting and small drops in everything else. Honestly, these changes only really tell us one thing and we probably already knew it in any case: what this tells us is that PK-Kaiser knows the metagame extremely well.

Hi! Its your favorite Monotype Player, the one and only! (Not really but you know) Anyways after the new bans and drops, I just wanted to give a little overview as to what our Metagame looks Like. (In My Opinion) So here is how I see it:

At the moment, the Metagame is centralized around 3 types that are due to really great buffs. The 3 types would be Pyschic, Dark, and Flying.

With Mega Gallade dropping and the already great defensive/offensive core Psychic has with the addition of Hoopa and Hoopa U, Psychic has become an even better player in the game, if not the Best 1 at the moment.

However, with the recent Altaria ban and the addition of Hoopa U to Dark, nothing much can really stop the Mega Sableye/Tyranitar/Mandibuzz core, making Dark a real key player as well, almost as good as Psychic. Lets not forget that it has access to Hoopa U, which can deal with fighting teams really well if they don't have a Psychic resistance which a lot of teams don't carry anymore.

And last but not least, the great trade off; Charizard X for Zapdos made flying a lot more popular on ladder. The reason for this is because Flying get's their best defogger back in the game now, and is able to fend off Electric teams now without being forced to Run Charizard X. I feel as if these 3 are the top 3 at the moment.

However, I feel people are looking at these so much that they started to look at all the other types a lot less. I have been laddering and peaked #1 and I have to say that types like Fairy, Water, and even Poison are really good ladder types right now. I say that because each of those types have things to take out the top 3 big guns in the game right now, such as water; Sharpedo for psychic, Keldeo for dark, and Cloyster for flying. Well played Diancie and Azumarill beats Psychic and Flying, and then has a great match up against dark overall. And as for Poison? Well poison has a really good match up vs Psychic, with Drapion, Gengar, Skuntank, Scolipede, and more. Poison vs dark may be 1 sided because of Mega Sableye, but I feel it's winnable in some cases. And as for Flying? With the Zapdos drop, defensive flying becomes more common with core Like Zapdos, Skarmory, Gliscor, and Gyarados, all things stuff like Venusaur, and Genger can deal with.

Conclusion: I feel the Metagame has shifted quite a bit, some good ways and some bad, but overall I don't think it's unhealthy just yet. Hopefully some of the other types can get more usage due to these 3 being so common. And that's all! if you have questions for me you can ask me, I'm always in the Monotype room on main, Later ~

The only rise Kaiser failed to tell us about was Steel, which is explained by its strong matchup against zard X-less Flying and Psychic, while drops in fighting and ground and the rise in poison can't have hurt.

Now, one thing to remember is that these bans finally happened on August 17th. According to my drunk brain that's about halfway through the month, and while there was some frantic suspect laddering beforehand there was some frantic testing of the new metagame afterwards, so let's say about half the stats are from the post-changes era. This makes a certain amount of sense when we look at Psychic's top pokemon usage stats:

Assuming most of the usage is from megas (which it may well not be but meh) we see that Gardevoir is out in front by a long way considering all the usage stats together, but considering the latter half is probably closer to tied with Mega Gallade. I'll also assume that most of Medicham's usage comes from before the bans too, although it certainly retains a niche in the post-Galladite age due to being a stronger mon and powerful wallbreaker.
Speaking of wallbreakers, Hoopa-U hits 50% usage, showing that while it's strong it doesn't appear to be dominating the meta to a huge extent, at least from what I can see here. We see Victini remaining dominant, as does the Slowbro/Mew core, and there are still plenty of extremely good options with things like Latios only getting #10 in usage, which is almost absurd when you consider how well a pokemon that good would do on a type such as Poison.

Another interesting type too look at, of course, is Flying. Here we see that while Zard X is now gone, Charizard remains at #2 in usage with 65% of them running the Y megastone compared to a similar percentage running 'zardite X the previous month, showing probably a little over half of the Charizard stats are from post-bans if my ethanol-addled mind is judging things correctly here. We also see Gyarados rising a mere 5 percentage points to 33 from 28, showing this doesn't seem to be everyone's choice of replacement, while Aerodactyl's surprising jump from 12 to 22 turns out on closer inspection to have been somewhat misleading, as Aerodactylite actually falls from 36% to 23% in favour of a sash lead variant. It would appear that Zard X is simply going to be replaced by Zard Y, a somewhat dissapointing result for an Aerodactyl-lover like myself (though even I have to admit that the mega wasn't the best artwork ever produced). Nonetheless there is some hope, as Will-o-Wisp remains steady at around 14% meaning that bulky Zard sets are still around to catch that unprepared Terrakion off-guard!

The last thing I'd like to have a brief look at is what I'll call Generic Dark.

As you can see, we're getting plenty of teams running Mega Sableye (Sablenite at 75% - Regular Sableye is still viable, let's remember!), Bisharp, Mandibuzz, Tyranitar, Hoopa-U, and a Hard-hitter - often a fast one, with just under half the Hydreigon running Scarf, although a meagre 10% of Crawdaunt are running Dragon Dance in comparison to the much more popular Swords Dance variant that comes in at 77%.
One thing to note is that practically all the Mandibuzz are Physically defensive

which forms a strong defensive core with the huge number of Specially defensive Tyranitars

Let's not forget how well these two complement each other: Overcoat protects Mandibuzz from the sand that Tyranitar sets, boosting its own SpD. Mandibuzz removes rocks while Ttar sets them, Mandibuzz is happy to take a certain number of Ground, Fighting, Bug, Grass, Water and Steel attacks while Ttar isn't particularly troubled by Electric, Ice or Rock: Overall the only thing that will hit both hard is Fairy, which Bisharp is perfectly happy to handle. That's not to say that this core is perfect, with Ttar missing reliable recovery, the defogger being weak to rocks, and both being weakened rather easily by Toxic if Sableye can't come in on it and Umbreon isn't there will Heal Bell support. But overall, they provide a solid backbone for a Dark team to build upon, and despite Dark not having the sheer options offered by Flying or Psychic, or the sheer force applied by Dragon teams, the type has a rather serendipitous way of providing all the support options it needs to do well, with Hoopa-U finally stepping up to give Dark the edge it needed to become a top-tier type once more.


This has been DoW's Amature Stat Analysis and Bad Excel Graphs! I'm your guest host, Death on Drink, and thanks for tuning in! This episode we've looked at the overall usage, as well as a few common threats on some of the major types, and I hope you tune in next time when we'll be discussing whatever's a big deal when we get there!

 

[Day Healer]

Also the lack of recovery forces Hoopa U to either be a scarf revenge killer or stallbreaker unless it's on psychic with trick room.

I think u mean wallbreaker, stallbreakers are fat things with taunt/don't caring about statuses and recovery like Gliscor, mew, reuniclus, etc.
Anyways I don't see how being a scarf revenge killer or a wallbreaker with that amount of coverage and those sky high offenses is a bad thing.

I would say that Hoopa U should not be banned since a bad speed tier and horrible defenses with only alright synergy hold it back.

Granted, is speed is bad, but is not thaaat bad. With a choice scarf is in the same speed tier like scarf Chandelure, scarf togekiss and 5 speed less than scarf scarf Heracross and scarf nidoking, arguably the best scarfers than ghost, fairy, fighting and poison have.
Synergy is ok too, in psychic resisting all those shadow balls from monoghost and hitting back hard (again monodark is less impressive anyways). In monodark with scarf it steamroll fighting opponents if they dont have a psychic immunity, does good too again fairy (just need weaken klefki a bit first), again bug is less useful becos the offensive pressure monobugs have and because that x4 weakness hurts.
Finally, only its "physical defense" is bad, its special defense let it tank something like this:

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 220-261 (72.8 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 183-216 (60.5 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 156-186 (51.6 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa Unbound: 218-258 (72.1 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hide

Also hi, Death on Gengar :3

 

[perish song me]

Dragon down, Ground down, Water up, Flying up

...I wonder what type might benefit from that...

 

[Josh]

Assuming most of the usage is from megas (which it may well not be but meh) we see that Gardevoir is out in front by a long way considering all the usage stats together, but considering the latter half is probably closer to tied with Mega Gallade. I'll also assume that most of Medicham's usage comes from before the bans too, although it certainly retains a niche in the post-Galladite age due to being a stronger mon and powerful wallbreaker.
Speaking of wallbreakers, Hoopa-U hits 50% usage, showing that while it's strong it doesn't appear to be dominating the meta to a huge extent, at least from what I can see here. We see Victini remaining dominant, as does the Slowbro/Mew core, and there are still plenty of extremely good options with things like Latios only getting #10 in usage, which is almost absurd when you consider how well a pokemon that good would do on a type such as Poison.

This might be because regular Gardevoir (generally scarfed) is actually viable, whereas regular Gallade and Medicham are simply terrible.

 

[Dece1t]

This might be because regular Gardevoir (generally scarfed) is actually viable, whereas regular Gallade and Medicham are simply terrible.

Regular Gallade isn't terrible, Av is a rly nice set. Medi, yea, I'll give you that 1 it's pretty bad w/o mega.

Dragon down, Ground down, Water up, Flying up

...I wonder what type might benefit from that...

Tesla already took advantage lol. I've been trying to, but easier said than done (rip Rotom-Mow electric)

 

[Minwu]

how are your psychic and dark hoopa teams going to stop the sweep of the almighty shell smash crustle?

OHKOes hoopa
OHKOes uninvested tar
OHKoes 252/252+ mandi 68.8% of the time
OHKOes victini
2HKOes slowbro


I think Bug is the best type here.

 

[DoW]

This might be because regular Gardevoir (generally scarfed) is actually viable, whereas regular Gallade and Medicham are simply terrible.

Gardevoir ran 79% Gardevoirite 16% Scarf 5% Other.
Gallade ran this:

Medicham meanwhile ran 5% LO and 2% scarf, so you're right about that being unusable non-mega (although if the other megas didn't destroy dark I think it would be more usable than it is).

Overall I'd agree that generally speaking Garde is the best of the three non-mega, but Gallade's certainly usable as a secondary dark check if you feel the team needs it.

 

[Alexis Breeze]

you know, psychic being the new flying is making -imo- the meta a bit stale. I'm skipping the Ground and Bug dominance periods because those teams were mostly popular not exactly the greatest. Genesect pre-Zapdos bug teams had a number of disfavorable matchups. I feel like Psychic has positive win ratios against every other type having access to great mons with diverse typings

 

[DoW]

you know, psychic being the new flying is making -imo- the meta a bit stale. I'm skipping the Ground and Bug dominance periods because those teams were mostly popular not exactly the greatest. Genesect pre-Zapdos bug teams had a number of disfavorable matchups. I feel like Psychic has positive win ratios against every other type having access to great mons with diverse typings

Actually, if anything I'd argue that Psychic's dominance firstly doesn't really exist, with Flying having far higher usage, and secondly is something of a throwback to older times rather than something new:

Obviously the flying, psychic and steel usage is far higher than it was in January, but the same shape is followed in both months, with only a few types having their positions swapped around.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to in some way nerfing flying and perhaps psychic. They are hitting extremely high usage, and although I think this will drop somewhat as the metagame settles I'd like to see more type diversity.

 

[Dece1t]

Actually, if anything I'd argue that Psychic's dominance firstly doesn't really exist, with Flying having far higher usage, and secondly is something of a throwback to older times rather than something new:

Obviously the flying, psychic and steel usage is far higher than it was in January, but the same shape is followed in both months, with only a few types having their positions swapped around.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to in some way nerfing flying and perhaps psychic. They are hitting extremely high usage, and although I think this will drop somewhat as the metagame settles I'd like to see more type diversity.

I just realized flying hot 12%, that's unbelievably higg, and I don't think that has ever happened. This may be a problem that we might wanna look at.

 

[DoW]

I just realized flying hot 12%, that's unbelievably higg, and I don't think that has ever happened. This may be a problem that we might wanna look at.

Yeah, I just put this graph together and it really shows how far flying's going right now:

Sorry about it being difficult to read etc., I'd at least change the colours but I'm kinda busy and also really bad at excel

 

[Alexis Breeze]

usage I'm not too concerned about (read comments about Bug ZOMG high usage 2 months ago), it's viability. Psychic right now is absurdly OP. I don't care if Flying or Dark gets 50% usage, the X % of Psychic users that actually have some neurons and know what they are doing (hell, not even if you just use a "standard" psychic team) have a positive matchup across the whole meta. Think about that for a second. What are Psychic's bad matchups atm? Dark? A Psychic user might wanna step in and correct me but from what I've seen, it's 50/50 at worst. Bug? Not right now with Hoopa and Genesect gone, it's not auto win but Bug has to play flawlessly to win while Psychic has room for maybe a couple of errors. Flying? Imo Psychic > Flying right now. Ghost is now kinda autowin for Psychic right now. Maaaybe Steel but I don't know that matchup very well so I'm just assuming.

 

[Josh]

usage I'm not too concerned about (read comments about Bug ZOMG high usage 2 months ago), it's viability. Psychic right now is absurdly OP. I don't care if Flying or Dark gets 50% usage, the X % of Psychic users that actually have some neurons and know what they are doing (hell, not even if you just use a "standard" psychic team) have a positive matchup across the whole meta. Think about that for a second. What are Psychic's bad matchups atm? Dark? A Psychic user might wanna step in and correct me but from what I've seen, it's 50/50 at worst. Bug? Not right now with Hoopa and Genesect gone, it's not auto win but Bug has to play flawlessly to win while Psychic has room for maybe a couple of errors. Flying? Imo Psychic > Flying right now. Ghost is now kinda autowin for Psychic right now. Maaaybe Steel but I don't know that matchup very well so I'm just assuming.

Water/Flying that are running Mega Gyara (a pretty common mega) probably give psychic a bad matchup, because Mega Gyara just kinda shits on everything psychic has (shoutout to whoever had superpower deo-s just to deal with gyara). It pretty much just neuters psychic. Furthuring that, water in general is just able to hold its own against Psychic.

Do I think Psychic needs a nerf? Meh not really, but I can see potential. I definitely think Psychic is better than Flying though, and is the best type right now by far.

 

[Dece1t]

usage I'm not too concerned about (read comments about Bug ZOMG high usage 2 months ago), it's viability. Psychic right now is absurdly OP. I don't care if Flying or Dark gets 50% usage, the X % of Psychic users that actually have some neurons and know what they are doing (hell, not even if you just use a "standard" psychic team) have a positive matchup across the whole meta. Think about that for a second. What are Psychic's bad matchups atm? Dark? A Psychic user might wanna step in and correct me but from what I've seen, it's 50/50 at worst. Bug? Not right now with Hoopa and Genesect gone, it's not auto win but Bug has to play flawlessly to win while Psychic has room for maybe a couple of errors. Flying? Imo Psychic > Flying right now. Ghost is now kinda autowin for Psychic right now. Maaaybe Steel but I don't know that matchup very well so I'm just assuming.

For me at least usage matters a lot. It really shows which types are being completely overplayed to the point where that's the only type on the ladder. Any type tbh going above 10% usually signals a problem. If you average if every type has equal usage, they should all be at about 5.6%. That isn't the case bc the meta is very diverse, and there are types that are easier to pick up than others. Flying going more than double that average I don't think is a good sign, as the meta will start to revolve around it as a means to make sure is checked. Granted that may be me exagerating, but, a (more) minor form of that situation will occur.

 

[scpinion]

The August usage stats are finally up on the Monotype Website! Sorry for the delay.
We had over 200,000 battles on the Monotype ladder in August! Once again, that is easily the most ever.
Many of you have already been analyzing the most recent stats from the raw version on Smogon's stats index.

Here are my thoughts

August on the left, January on the right. Welcome back to the pre-MonoPL meta sans Genesect, Altaria and CharX!

Pokemon usage stats and sprite gallery: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
Type Matchup Table and Imbalanced Matchups: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/matchup-tables.html
Metagame Trends/Type Analyses/Lead Information: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html (may take longer to load than normal)

As always, make sure to let me know if you need any help understanding something, or if you find any bugs![/quote]

 

[Dece1t]

The August usage stats are finally up on the Monotype Website! Sorry for the delay.
We had over 200,000 battles on the Monotype ladder in August! Once again, that is easily the most ever.
Many of you have already been analyzing the most recent stats from the raw version on Smogon's stats index.

Here are my thoughts

August on the left, January on the right. Welcome back to the pre-MonoPL meta sans Genesect, Altaria and CharX!

Pokemon usage stats and sprite gallery: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
Type Matchup Table and Imbalanced Matchups: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/matchup-tables.html
Metagame Trends/Type Analyses/Lead Information: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html (may take longer to load than normal)

As always, make sure to let me know if you need any help understanding something, or if you find any bugs!

[/quote]
The fact that flying got as high as it did concerns me a lot. At first I was like "Oh wow, I'd love to see DOS added back to the meta!" Atm that's the thing I'd lean towards suspecting again bc I don't think a type has sped ahead and is played by more than 1/10th of the meta out of the other 18 types. This is 1 of the big reasons why I'm not for the removal of type bans, bc if we suspect Zapdos, it'd have to be on electric as well, and if electric loses it, it'll be almost unplayable (excuse my exaggeration, but, we can all agree electric will be the new worst type). Type bans when they were around balanced the game out so much better, and limiting certain types (as complex as it was) was one of the healthiest points of the metagame. I'd probably ask the council to look over that policy again, as, for me at least, I understood the reasoning behind why it was decided, but it never sat well in my stomach.

 

[Minwu]

If flying needs a nerf at all it probably shouldn't nerf another type in the process.

 

[1 True Lycan]

I really think we should wait a while before talking more about bans for flying. Flying is certainly a good type but I don't think its defensive core is as OP as it once was. The metagame still needs time to settle. I do agree that global bans just for the sake of it are not a great idea. If a pokemon is OP on one type but clearly not on the other, it would be foolish to ban it globally since it just decreases diversity.

 

[scpinion]

I really think we should wait a while before talking more about bans for flying. Flying is certainly a good type but I don't think its defensive core is as OP as it once was. The metagame still needs time to settle. I do agree that global bans just for the sake of it are not a great idea. If a pokemon is OP on one type but clearly not on the other, it would be foolish to ban it globally since it just decreases diversity.

Going to agree 100% with the first half of this post about waiting before we take action against Flying.

 

[DoW]

Yeah, currently we've got a number of ideas flying around about how to approach the meta in the future, and one of the first things we'll look at will be how said approaches would look at and affect the current meta. Personally I can't wait to have a big debate about some things, but it would be unwise to, say, ban Hoopa-U only to realise two months later that Psychic wasn't broken in the first place and that Mega Gallade is unbalancing the meta, not that I think that's likely to be the case necessarily.

But while I think there'll be plenty to discuss, but we've only just got the usage stats partially regarding the changes and we'll (hopefully) be getting more in two weeks' time, we're going to want a look at those before moving forward.