Ladder ORAS Monotype Discussion

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Uh, why would Mega Sableye being banned change your opinion and what does that have to do with Hoopa-U? When Mega Sableye was around no one was forcing it into dark users and other Mega Evolutions could be used, so that doesn't change anything. Also how is Hoopa-U comparable to Genesect? Genesect has a better defensive typing, better coverage, U-turn, download and more speed.
It's true that nobody was forcing anybody to use Mega Sableye, but opportunity cost is a factor here. Mega Sableye beat more things outright than any other Dark Mega, and thus the opportunity cost for not using it could almost never have been justified; while the other Dark Megas had matchups they were good in that Mega Sableye wasn't, they came with more situations where they'd lose when Mega Sableye wouldn't. Competitively, the other Megas weren't bad, they were just too inferior to see significant use.

While I haven't played any Monotype as Dark, based on what The-Vale is arguing, Dark type teams built around Mega Sableye needed Hoopa-U to deal with particular threats and, because of Mega Sableye's ubiquity, it seemed like Dark in general needed Hoopa-U to address those threats. Now that Mega Sableye is gone, the opportunity cost of not using it is gone too, and thus other Megas (along with standard Sableye) have risen to prominence. This means that Dark teams are now inherently weak to different threats than they used to be, and Hoopa-U's necessity to those teams could have changed. In theory, this would mean that Hoopa-U was never as necessary to Dark as it seemed but, because Mega Sablyeye was so much better than its alternatives, the metagame standard Dark teams never reflected the alternatives that would have showed that Hoopa-U was less necessary.
 
It's true that nobody was forcing anybody to use Mega Sableye, but opportunity cost is a factor here. Mega Sableye beat more things outright than any other Dark Mega, and thus the opportunity cost for not using it could almost never have been justified; while the other Dark Megas had matchups they were good in that Mega Sableye wasn't, they came with more situations where they'd lose when Mega Sableye wouldn't. Competitively, the other Megas weren't bad, they were just too inferior to see significant use.

While I haven't played any Monotype as Dark, based on what The-Vale is arguing, Dark type teams built around Mega Sableye needed Hoopa-U to deal with particular threats and, because of Mega Sableye's ubiquity, it seemed like Dark in general needed Hoopa-U to address those threats. Now that Mega Sableye is gone, the opportunity cost of not using it is gone too, and thus other Megas (along with standard Sableye) have risen to prominence. This means that Dark teams are now inherently weak to different threats than they used to be, and Hoopa-U's necessity to those teams could have changed. In theory, this would mean that Hoopa-U was never as necessary to Dark as it seemed but, because Mega Sablyeye was so much better than its alternatives, the metagame standard Dark teams never reflected the alternatives that would have showed that Hoopa-U was less necessary.
Everyone but a few seem to be dodging around the real issue of Hoopa U being crazy good on Psy as well
 

scpinion

Life > Monotype... unfortunately :)
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Everyone but a few seem to be dodging around the real issue of Hoopa U being crazy good on Psy as well
Its role on Psychic hasn't changed much since the previous suspect. You still tailor it to your weaknesses and/or wallbreak. Voters didn't think it was so unhealthy for the metagame as to ban it then.

The argument for a re-suspect centers around why someone's vote would have changed, not why we suspected it in the first place. The most has changed on Dark, so that is what people are discussing.

That said, it is perfectly fine for someone to say "I underestimated its impact on the meta on Psychic" or "I went against the tiering philosophy and would vote differently this time".

I, for one, fall into that first category (I voted no ban). I completely underestimated how much it could shape/pressure the meta when used optimally on Psychic teams. I also think the removal of Mega-Sableye freed up Psychic builds from preferring Mega-Gardevoir. That allows Medi and Gallade, which removes the pressure on Hoopa to check Steel. Thus, we're seeing more diverse Hoopa sets. Etc. Etc.

I also agree that the new megas, particularly the speed they can bring to a Dark team, change how Hoopa is used there. While you still need Scarf to really check sub-cm Keldeo, other sets are definitely more viable than they were. I don't have a well-formed opinion on its new role on Dark teams yet, so I don't know how that'd affect my vote, though.

I saw that comment and wanted to share what I think the discussion is really centered around this go round. These are my personal opinions, not some kind of official statement from the council or anything.* Just some food for thought.

*I like to partake in the discussion too!
 
I actually want to talk about something that I've been noticed has been happening lately as a cause of the Mega Sableye ban. Like most of you mentioned, now that Psychic has more free range in choice of megas, Gardevoir is no longer the mega that is required* to be used. Since that, I've noticed Mega Medicham has been used more, but there's one that I noticed a lot of people, including myself, have found to be an incredibly underrated threat.

Players in the community, lately especially, have been figuring out how great Mega Latias is to use. First off, it has incredible bulk, and a very wide movepool, allowing it to run a variety of sets! I'll show a few that I've been noticing has been getting the most usage.


Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Roost

This is the most common set I've noticed, but it's a great one! With its absurd bulk, and some speed to be able to completely outpace Bisharp, its almost dead easy to get at least 1 CM. BoltBeam allows it to hit almost all of the metagame at least neutrally, so after 1 or more CM's, it can often wreck havoc to teams. Stored Power can also be used, increasing in BP for every time you boost (by the time you're +3, you've hit 140 BP, on top of your large Special Attack boost).


Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Reflect Type / Defog
- Roost

This features another common EV spread, that gets it to enough to outspeed Nidoking and neutral base 100 mons. This is more of a passive set compared to the one above, allowing it to function as Hazard Control, or as a Bisharp check (or a general Dark check in that matter, if you manage to get Reflect Type up, it'll now resist Dark attacks). BoltBeam is used once again for a wide range of coverage--now granted this won't be nearly as strong as CM, but uninvested base 140 Special Attack still gets it up to 316, which is enough to do relatively good damage.


I think, arguably, this is the absolute best partner for it. Jirachi's part Steel typing allows it to cover 2 of Latias's main weaknesses: Dragon and Fairy. It is also able to spread paralysis, slowing down faster mons on a team, which not only allow Latias to be faster, but it also presents the chance to give Latias a free turn where the opponent can't attack. Lastly, along with Hazard setting, it's also able to Wish-Pass, which could be great for an emergency way to heal health, or give it virtually a free switchin.


Having a wallbreaker like Hoopa is recommended as well, especially if you're running the Defog/Reflect Type set. Not only that, but it can provide coverage that you may be lacking, i.e. in Drain Punch, Energy Ball, ect.


Gardevoir would also be good to use, since Dark is still very much threatening, especially w/o Mega Gardevoir. It can also provide support in Trick and Healing Wish.


In short, Mega Latias is a mega that lately has been getting spotlight now that Mega Sableye got the boot, and it can run an endless amount of sets (I only featured a couple that I've seen get the most usage). Here's some replays showcasing how great it is in battle:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-405334429 vs Water
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-405326525 vs Fairy (this features a Stored Power set)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-monotype-180329 vs Flying (s/o to Confluxx, this utilises the Defog set, and demonstrates that despite not having CM, it is by no means not threatening)
 
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I think one of the viable reasons why Hoopa-U re-suspect could be a possibility would be the community’s mindset when it was banned. If some of you guys don’t remember, during Hoopa-U suspect Monotype Council decided to ban Aegislash and leave the Type-Ban policy behind. If you go to the Hoopa-U suspect discussion thread (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/monotype-hoopa-unbound-suspect.3566368/) you will see most of the people saying “Is it worth it to ban it since it will cripple dark. Why can’t we just ban it on Psychic”. Like in the Mega-Sableye situation the discussion shouldn’t really be like that if we are going to follow the new policies.
Sableye will very clearly change everyone's view on the Hoopa ban because now a precident has bee set. The arguments may not have changed but the way this meta thinks has changed greatly. Before you could argue that banning Hoopa would hurt dark. Now you cannot because that is no longer relevant. Your post above saying it helps dark is irrelevant.

The only thing that matters is that it is broken and/or subtracts from the mets by being on either dark or psychic.

And for a mon suspected so soon before this concept before this argument was introduced, and having its arguments on how it would kill dark no longer being valid, it deserves a suspect.
Now that i have read this quite often in recent posts here is a

friendly reminder that keeping a Pokemon because it would hurt the type when you ban it is not the banning philosophy we use and therefore not a valid argument!
I think those posts touch the gist of the matter. That, and coupled with the overwhelming power which now psychics have with the triumvirate Hoopa-U/Mega medicham/Victini, could be the main reasons why a Hoopa-U resuspect could be in order.

Feel free to disagree with me however or explain me why a delay could be necessary.
 
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I'll hop into the forum mix. Hey everyone, Frinckles here. As a Ghost-Monotype player, I'm relatively new to the scene having started playing after the latest Mega-Sableye ban. (Which totally wasn't posted on the "Important Monotype Tiering Events")

So, I'd like to ask -- uh, yeah what the hell is up with Ghost types?

It feels like Ghost-monotype is has the most limited options when it comes to team building aside from maybe Ice. Yeah, sure it's fun talking in the SD chatroom about the quality of life the lower tier teams such as Ghost have -- but it's beginning to feel like apathy. Like, one day Mimikyu is going to descent from the heavens and maybe, just maybe fix Ghost types but until then just hold on! It can't get much worse anyway right?

I'm not positing that Mega-Gengar should get out on good behaviour, but if a type is at a minimal usage, there is probably a reason for that.
Looking at this list of banned Pokemon would make it seem like Ghost originally had some absurd usage and needed to be smacked by the ban hammer. I highly doubt that was the case.

And since it'll come up anyway, yeah -- type bans should be a thing. It gives people more control and balance over a metagame literally focused on typing. It's only a complicated ban if you can't read a small color coded list.

I'd really like to hear more about the current state of not only Ghost, but the rest of the <4.0% crew and how this metagame plans to move forward.
 
I'll hop into the forum mix. Hey everyone, Frinckles here. As a Ghost-Monotype player, I'm relatively new to the scene having started playing after the latest Mega-Sableye ban. (Which totally wasn't posted on the "Important Monotype Tiering Events")

So, I'd like to ask -- uh, yeah what the hell is up with Ghost types?

It feels like Ghost-monotype is has the most limited options when it comes to team building aside from maybe Ice. Yeah, sure it's fun talking in the SD chatroom about the quality of life the lower tier teams such as Ghost have -- but it's beginning to feel like apathy. Like, one day Mimikyu is going to descent from the heavens and maybe, just maybe fix Ghost types but until then just hold on! It can't get much worse anyway right?

I'm not positing that Mega-Gengar should get out on good behaviour, but if a type is at a minimal usage, there is probably a reason for that.
Looking at this list of banned Pokemon would make it seem like Ghost originally had some absurd usage and needed to be smacked by the ban hammer. I highly doubt that was the case.

And since it'll come up anyway, yeah -- type bans should be a thing. It gives people more control and balance over a metagame literally focused on typing. It's only a complicated ban if you can't read a small color coded list.

I'd really like to hear more about the current state of not only Ghost, but the rest of the <4.0% crew and how this metagame plans to move forward.
Hi, welcome to Monotype and Smogon! I hope you are enjoying the metagame. I'll try to address all of your concerns one at a time to give them the attention they deserve.

On the matter of Ghost, it's clear why Gengarite, Giratina, and Giratina-O are banned, but the other two (Aegislash, Sablenite) may not be as obvious. For Sablenite, there are quite a few resources that explain the general reasoning. The Sablenite thread is the best for multiple views and recently an article about the suspect was written as well. If you have further questions about Sablenite, feel free to ask more. I'm also available in the Monotype room very often (EienSeiryuu) and would be happy to discuss the suspect and subsequent ban if you wish. Aegislash is a much more unfortunate matter. The Aegislash + Skarmory + Heatran core on Steel teams was far too powerful, which meant that the most problematic and powerful part of the core, Aegislash, was banned. Because the tiering philosophy prefers simple bans to complex bans, Aegislash was globally banned, which is, as I said, unfortunate for Ghost. Ghost just by the nature of the way Pokemon are created happened to have broken and uncompetitive Pokemon, making it seem as if there is some bias against it when that isn't the case.

Speaking of which, the problem of type-bans is better suited for PMs, so if you want to discuss this, feel free to start a conversation with the council here on the forums or PM us on Showdown. I will state that the issue with type-bans being dubbed complex is at least partially a comparative one. The point is to have simple bans and because type-bans are more complex than global bans, they are "complex". There has been a lot of recent discussion on this point in the past few pages of this thread, so that is a great place to look for some of our justification (and counterpoints as well!)

Also, we do know from past usage statistics that even with both Mega Sableye and Aegislash, Ghost usage was quite low. The type is simply not well equipped by GameFreak and there isn't much we can do to help when the only unbans are beyond the realm of possibility. While ideally every type would be viable, that simply isn't possible with the game we play. Instead, we aim to make sure no type is too strong because that is something we can address and fix.

In general, as a piece of advice, I would not look too much at usage stats for gauging viability. They are naturally skewed. Types like Fairy and Dark are also sub-4% usage but are absolutely viable. In fact, Fairy is one of the best types and its performance in tournament play has certainly proven that point.

I hope I adequately answered your questions. As I said, if there is more or I missed something, absolutely don't hesitate to ask!
 
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Cool seeing medichams increase over gardevoir after the ban. Overall type usage hasnt really changed much except ghost being used less.
 

scpinion

Life > Monotype... unfortunately :)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
The voting stage for the 2nd Hoopa-Unbound suspect has ended. Thanks to everyone who participated in the suspect!

Monotype requires a 60% majority to implement a change via suspect test. With only 56% of the voters supporting a ban, Hoopa-Unbound will NOT be banned from Monotype.
You may view the votes here.

Feel free to discuss the suspect test results in this thread.

Tagging The Immortal to make Hoopa-Unbound legal in Monotype again.
 
Guess Hoopa is something which, no matter how hard we try, will always be a part of Monotype.
If I bothered to do the Reqs, I think I would've gone Ban, but I don't think the result would've changed. RIP Banded Metagross on Psychic, you were fun whilst it lasted
 
I was pretty scared to see the decision, but I gotta say I'm ecstatic! I'm so happy that it wasn't banned, despite the fact it was suspected a 2nd time (which, given trends, almost every mon gets banned, it's rly cool to see that we broke that notorious string of events). My prediction for the late ORAS Metagame would be a flourish of things that would normally be deemed underrated. Now that Sun and Moon are just around the corner, people will probably want to test stuff before the metagame ends and moves into transition. I also think, funny enough, Poison will see a significant rise in usage, it really is an underrated type, and its very anti-meta! Granted it is a bit of a challenge to initially pick up, but once you do figure out how things work, it's rather fun. Lastly, I'm expecting a rise with Fire's usage. Since I'm expecting a flourish of Offense, Fire's a type that excels at HO, I can see more people picking that up to abuse the archetype.
 
3rd hoopa u suspect so it can get banned when

jokes aside im p much expecting a rise of hoopa u yeams especially in low ladder since it gets ez wins since relative to other teams its a lot easier to use, which leads me to ask this question, when is something (like a type) considered overcentralizing? ive seen quite a few people saying psychic is used too much and it needs a nerf and it came up a little bit during the recent suspect. while i personally dont see a problem in a type getting a lot of usage (over 10% or more) and find it pointless to nerf top types to increase usage of lower types (im pretty sure a majority of those people using the nerfed type will just switch to the next strongest type and now that has inane usage) its made me wonder at what point is something "used too much"? also how is it decided if something should be suspected at all? i know the council votes but is there a place explaining how you decide if something is suspect worthy (like an ou tiering policy except instead of whether it should be banned its whether it should be suspected)? i feel like right now its basically whichever a lot of people are complaining about at the moment (and while im not trying to bring down the council and think theyve done a wonderful job of balancing the meta i feel like the hoopa resuspect was too soon. basically someone found really good sets and they started getting used but there wasnt much type for the meta to counter adapt.)

a set of defining rules about who to suspect and when would be pretty nice for sumo instead of just trying to be the most heard so that the council notices you. either way the council has done a good job of balancong oras and will hopefully keep sumo balanced :p
 

scpinion

Life > Monotype... unfortunately :)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
3rd hoopa u suspect so it can get banned when

jokes aside im p much expecting a rise of hoopa u yeams especially in low ladder since it gets ez wins since relative to other teams its a lot easier to use, which leads me to ask this question, when is something (like a type) considered overcentralizing? ive seen quite a few people saying psychic is used too much and it needs a nerf and it came up a little bit during the recent suspect. while i personally dont see a problem in a type getting a lot of usage (over 10% or more) and find it pointless to nerf top types to increase usage of lower types (im pretty sure a majority of those people using the nerfed type will just switch to the next strongest type and now that has inane usage) its made me wonder at what point is something "used too much"? also how is it decided if something should be suspected at all? i know the council votes but is there a place explaining how you decide if something is suspect worthy (like an ou tiering policy except instead of whether it should be banned its whether it should be suspected)? i feel like right now its basically whichever a lot of people are complaining about at the moment (and while im not trying to bring down the council and think theyve done a wonderful job of balancing the meta i feel like the hoopa resuspect was too soon. basically someone found really good sets and they started getting used but there wasnt much type for the meta to counter adapt.)

a set of defining rules about who to suspect and when would be pretty nice for sumo instead of just trying to be the most heard so that the council notices you. either way the council has done a good job of balancong oras and will hopefully keep sumo balanced :p
We don't have a specific set of rules for what should/shouldn't be suspected. Moreover, I'm not a fan of creating a concrete set of rules for it because every case is different. Sometimes we want to react to a growing metagame trend because we think it is unhealthy (e.g. mega-sab), while other times we want to really see how the metagame adapts (e.g. Shadow Tag). In general, I don't think we have made (nor will make) a decision in haste. However, if other members of the council want to introduce a concrete set of rules about when/what we can/can't suspect, then it is definitely an option.

Since you asked about it and there isn't really a reason to keep it a secret:

I base my suspect decisions off my own battling experiences, replays I watch from tours, discussions with other players, and the discussion in this thread. Using those, I ask myself, could this element of the game violate some aspect of our tiering philosophy. If so (regardless of what I'd vote), then I typically support a suspect. In general, I think suspecting something is a good thing and I will almost always vote to suspect unless I'm confident it is unwarranted or a bad idea. This lets the community decide what should/shouldn't be in the metagame.

I think decisions made purely by the council (with/after input from you guys through the forums) should be for "big picture" things (e.g. the tiering philosophy) and when there is some new element that is blatantly broken (e.g. mega-mence at the beginning of ORAS).

Once we get a bit closer to the SUMO release we are going to hash out a framework for how we want to tier going into the new generation. I want us to have a plan because I know it is going to be chaotic once it starts and we shouldn't make up rules on the fly! While the final decisions are with the council (else what are we even there for?), there will be a thread to discuss that framework here in the forums too. I'm really excited for that thread to get rolling, but it is still a bit too early!
 
I have mixed feelings about the results tbh. Like I guess I kind of should be happy that hoopa didn't get banned but I'm more hung up on the fact that 5 people didn't vote for whatever reason. It's just really frustrating because when people don't vote it basically ruins even attempting to suspect the mon. Especially with mono because we generally don't get a lot of voters so missing 5 whole votes is kind of a big deal. Like why even have suspects if the results get skewed so much from people simply not voting. Weird rant but please make sure you vote in the future guys. We can't expect to ban anything if people aren't going to vote. This obviously doesn't apply to everyone but ya'll pickin up what I'm puttin down.
 
I was pretty scared to see the decision, but I gotta say I'm ecstatic! I'm so happy that it wasn't banned, despite the fact it was suspected a 2nd time (which, given trends, almost every mon gets banned, it's rly cool to see that we broke that notorious string of events). My prediction for the late ORAS Metagame would be a flourish of things that would normally be deemed underrated. Now that Sun and Moon are just around the corner, people will probably want to test stuff before the metagame ends and moves into transition. I also think, funny enough, Poison will see a significant rise in usage, it really is an underrated type, and its very anti-meta! Granted it is a bit of a challenge to initially pick up, but once you do figure out how things work, it's rather fun. Lastly, I'm expecting a rise with Fire's usage. Since I'm expecting a flourish of Offense, Fire's a type that excels at HO, I can see more people picking that up to abuse the archetype.
Even though i would also love to see a significant rise in poison and fire usage i don’t think neither of those things are realistic. Some types can be underrated and actually decent in tournament use but bad when it comes to ladder. I think Poison at the moment is one of those types. If you look at the high ladder stats the top 3 of most used stats are Psychic, Flying and Ground. Poison has a bad match-up against all 3 of these. Nothing has changed in the meta recently and i doubt anything will before sumo. Same applies to Poison, since as long as Psychic, Flying and Ground get so much usage i can’t see it getting more usage than it already gets at the moment.

What goes to fire, i agree that the tier is going to more offensive direction and such types that run offense are getting more usage. Fire is unfortunately not one of those types. Swift Swim and Classic Sand Ground have both been getting more usage recently which has resulted in Fire’s usage going down a bit. Again, If nothing changes in the meta, neither will fire’s usage.
Im not trying to beat down your predictions but when you say that you will expect flourish of things that would normally be deemed underrated but don’t really explain why that would happen other than saying you think Poison is underrated. I know it sounds boring but i think nothing will probably change in the few last months of ORAS Monotype.


i want to ask the council whats going to happen when we are going to go from ORAS to SuMo.
Are you guys gonna use UU's Kokoloko strategy or just let everything in. Is the BL what was crafted in ORAS going to transfer to SuMo or are you guys going to unban stuff like Aegislash, M-Sab and etc to see if they would actually be healthy in the new meta?
 
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i want to ask the council whats going to happen when we are going to go from ORAS to SuMo.
Are you guys gonna use UU's Kokoloko strategy or just let everything in. Is the BL what was crafted in ORAS going to transfer to SuMo or are you guys going to unban stuff like Aegislash, M-Sab and etc to see if they would actually be healthy in the new meta?
We are going to have another thread later on to discuss such matter, they are a couple stuff that the council want to iron out and the community should give their opinion in such matter.
 

dusk raimon

Banned deucer.
I was pretty scared to see the decision, but I gotta say I'm ecstatic! I'm so happy that it wasn't banned, despite the fact it was suspected a 2nd time (which, given trends, almost every mon gets banned, it's rly cool to see that we broke that notorious string of events). My prediction for the late ORAS Metagame would be a flourish of things that would normally be deemed underrated. Now that Sun and Moon are just around the corner, people will probably want to test stuff before the metagame ends and moves into transition. I also think, funny enough, Poison will see a significant rise in usage, it really is an underrated type, and its very anti-meta! Granted it is a bit of a challenge to initially pick up, but once you do figure out how things work, it's rather fun. Lastly, I'm expecting a rise with Fire's usage. Since I'm expecting a flourish of Offense, Fire's a type that excels at HO, I can see more people picking that up to abuse the archetype.
I mean this could happen and it would be in all honesty much more healthy for the meta to see a bit of variety, however what's more likely to happen is people will now spam psychic even more because Hoopa-U wasn't banned which will leave psychic still with one of its best mons. Most likely water and flying will be alongside psychic as the most used types still, as has been for most of Oras, because in the last two months I honestly can't see the meta changing. Fairy may increase in usage because people may want to try different builds in preparation for the plethora of new fairy types coming in gen 7 but then again that probably won't happen.

Tl;Dr the broken and good types are still overused and abused until gen 7 in which they will still probably be spammed unfortunately.
 
I may tinker with a full stall team for poison before sun and moon, as we will have a Pokemon that can poison other steel and poison types which was a major roadblock for these teams..

I also see ice getting significantly better next generation esp with the alola forms, but only time will tell how effective they really are
 
Ok so now that Hoopa-U is officially staying in the metagame (again lol) I thought it would be a great idea to grab this opportunity and talk about the next big threat, the one and only, Mega-Medicham! Note this isn't a request for a suspect but an attempt to start a metagame discussion :^)


Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt / Thunder Punch
- Bullet Punch

This is arguably the best wallbreaker right now together with Hoopa-U and guess what, you can use them both in the same team! With help from Hoopa-U it can break down any defensive core in the game with its insane power and is probably the most used mega right now (waiting for August stats :J).
It can run good coverage with double priority knocking out frail mons and Ice Punch / Thunder Punch to hit flying types as well as Garchomp and Slowbro respectively.

So I would like to know, what's everyones opinion about this monster?
 

dusk raimon

Banned deucer.
Ok so now that Hoopa-U is officially staying in the metagame (again lol) I thought it would be a great idea to grab this opportunity and talk about the next big threat, the one and only, Mega-Medicham! Note this isn't a request for a suspect but an attempt to start a metagame discussion :^)


Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt / Thunder Punch
- Bullet Punch

This is arguably the best wallbreaker right now together with Hoopa-U and guess what, you can use them both in the same team! With help from Hoopa-U it can break down any defensive core in the game with its insane power and is probably the most used mega right now (waiting for August stats :J).
It can run good coverage with double priority knocking out frail mons and Ice Punch / Thunder Punch to hit flying types as well as Garchomp and Slowbro respectively.

So I would like to know, what's everyones opinion about this monster?
I would say this is maybe the best mega for psychic and fighting now, far outclassing mega gallade (and to think mega gallade was banned once lol) on fighting, and on psychic definitely outclassing mega garde as mega sableye is now banned so mega garde isn't needed to bypass mega sabs. Both of these types appreciate the sheer wall breaking power mega medi brings as well as its good coverage and dual priority as well as the ability to maintain momentum and break a ton of defensive cores on its own.
 

DoW

formally Death on Wings
is a Pre-Contributor
I would say this is maybe the best mega for psychic and fighting now, far outclassing mega gallade (and to think mega gallade was banned once lol) on fighting, and on psychic definitely outclassing mega garde as mega sableye is now banned so mega garde isn't needed to bypass mega sabs. Both of these types appreciate the sheer wall breaking power mega medi brings as well as its good coverage and dual priority as well as the ability to maintain momentum and break a ton of defensive cores on its own.
I seem to say this every time either of the two get discussed, but neither Medi nor Gallade outclass the other - they do different jobs. Mega Medicham is a wallbreaker, and extremely good at it, while Mega Gallade is a sweeper, and also good at it. It's just that the metagame right now favours a wallbreaker over a sweeper, whereas before Mega Gallade was preferred for its ability to sweep once teams had been weakened.
 
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