Resource ORAS OU Metagame Discussion

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Do you guys think Volcanion will get suspected at any point, I know its not out and it would just be theorymon, but still curious
 

Martin

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Probably not. It'll be insanely good, but I doubt it'll ever be percieved as broken based on what the Unreleased OU meta was like.
 
People are forgetting that Volcanion doesn't have good recovery option outside of rest or a predicted water move, and being weak to rocks doesn't help much. So having it requires hazard support.
 

Mannat

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People are forgetting that Volcanion doesn't have good recovery option outside of rest or a predicted water move, and being weak to rocks doesn't help much. So having it requires hazard support.
hazard removal is kinda needed on offensive builds, and thundy has been in A+ rank while being a rocks weak wallbreaker, (the np+3 attacks set alone deserves A+, so dont go trying to pull the "prankster twave" excuse on me lol), so I still see hoopster being a cool wallbreaker on offensive builds as well as a solid pivot for fatter teams.
 
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 369-435 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (Pursuit is a 2HKO but hits very hard, Crunch obviously OHKO's)

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 180-213 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery

Banded Tyranitar will probably be a good partner for Volcanion since it crushes Jellicent and the Latis, as well as heavily damaging (albeit not 2HKOing) Suicune. Pair this core with a hazard remover and maybe a rocker/spiker and we should have ourselves something pretty scary.

Is it known when Volcanion will be legal? I think I read the date somewhere but I can't remember it at the moment.

AraEDIT: It's legal this Saturday.

JTD Edit: Making Ara's edit bigger so thread notices it.

AM Edit: This post belongs to me now ajajajajajaj [continued spanish laugh here]

Ara: That's what you think... :D

CelticEdit: man mod powers are a fun time
 
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Hazard removal has never been a necessity on offensive builds, even bulkier offense variants. Generally the only time you need hazard removal is when using Charizard, Mega Pinsir, Volcarona, and Talonflame. No one wants to take a clean 50% off of their HP and this doesn't truly extend to 25% SR weak mons since there are plently of builds that utilize threats such as Thundurus, Mega Aerodactyl, Gyarados, and obviously more without having hazard removal. The main stemming reason of many builds starting to forgo hazard removal is that it sorta sinks momentum by a large degree. Defogging leaves you liable to being Bisharp bait or you get snagged by the increasingly common amount of Pursuit trappers flooding the tier and it's not like Defogging isn't hard to predict. This reaches out to Starmie too, bar the Bisharp bit. So generally hazard removal often leaves the user of it in a tight spot, which gives you a reason to not fit hazard removal on EVERY build. The metagame has reached a point where you're not going to recommend hazard removal on teams anymore, especially when they don't necessarily need it.

This also amps up Torndaus-T usage as well seeing as how it's one of the few hazard weak mons that don't really mind Stealth Rock since Regenerator heals off most of the damage anyway, including firing off an attack.

Volcanion will be released the 16th, so Saturday.

I also don't really see why there are a ton of arguments of Volcanion "not going to affect the metagame." Do you not realize that it'll basically mandate that there are at least two mons on your team that can stomach Super Scalds and continue to do so until it's gone? And where are you going to get the switch-in when most things like Rotom-W and Keldeo take nearly half off a Specs Steam Eruption? This thing is going to make the more underused mons a lot better like the aforementioned Jellicent and Suicune, and I'm really expecting to see a lot more Slowking who may even rise into prominence alongside Slowbro

-Magic- I was saying that volcanion being rocks weak isn't a big deal since there's a ton of rocks weak mons in ou that are still really viable like talon and thundy, even mons like zardx are 4x rocks weak pre-mega and still manage to be A+ rank.
oh
 
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sam-testings

What a beautiful face, I have found in this place
So just judging from OU showdown chat, there is a lot of controversy surrounding the Hoopa ban and how "stall is going to rise again"

It really isn't. There are plenty of viable wallbreakers that are all amazing right now, and if you honestly think the sole reason Hoopa was banned was because it was bad for stall, you obviously did not read the suspect thread at all. sry if this isn't meant to be posted here, but I feel that I had to say something to all the salty players out there
 
So just judging from OU showdown chat, there is a lot of controversy surrounding the Hoopa ban and how "stall is going to rise again"

It really isn't. There are plenty of viable wallbreakers that are all amazing right now, and if you honestly think the sole reason Hoopa was banned was because it was bad for stall, you obviously did not read the suspect thread at all. sry if this isn't meant to be posted here, but I feel that I had to say something to all the salty players out there
Seriously, do people not realize Mega Heracross and TG Manaphy are still THINGS? Stall has a really hard time with wallbreakers like those, and Volcanion is only gonna pressure stall more.

People who are complaining that stall will be unbeatable/too good (different than fun to play against!) need to git gud
 
Yep Manaphy and thundurus are back on full force.

I'm going to miss Hoopa U on hazard offense, it really worked up a number on balance and stall.
 
Honestly I don't think Hoopa being banned is that bad.
Obviously the meta game revolves a lot around teams that have fatter cores, I.e I see a lot of clef skarm bro cores running around but as people have said previously there are still some fantastic breakers in the meta. Hoopa sorta made the balance style of play really difficult because it had the ability to 2hk0 anyting in the meta. With its removal I think that people will have to actually put a bit more thought into offensive geared teams. PReviously you could just run a volt turn core, bring in hoopa on a fatter wall like slowbro, click a specs pulse or a banded fury or whatever and just smash something which was pretty F88cking stupid. Fun, but stupid.

Things like manaphy will most likely rise again (although it isn't fantastic at the current time) and there are still really cool lures people will find which can make for more interesting meta, i.e stuff like max attack diancie is a really nice example of something that 360 no scopes chanseys and spdef clefs etc.
I think overall whilst the meta will probably become more comfortable with spamming the slower balance there are still lots of ways for offense to beat it. Balance has been the most popular style of play for a while now anyway and I'm sure with Hoopa gone the skill aspect of breaking walls is returned.
Well that's my take on it anyway ^.^
 
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Albacore

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Might be a bit late on the Volcanion discussion train but here goes anyway

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned HP Electric on this thing yet, I really think it's Volcanion's best 4th move on Choiced sets. It basically hits almost all of HP Grass's main targets (Keldeo Starmie Slowbro Suicune Slowking+Gyarados, and while it does miss out on Gastrodon and Sesmitoed, those two aren't exactly common, and being able to OHKO opposing Volcanion after SR with Specs / 2HKO with Scarf without running Earth Power (which you can't fit alongside Sludge Bomb if you want SE coverage on Waters) seems like a greater advantage, I doubt Gastrodon and Sesmitoed's combined usage will come anywhere close to Volcanion's, though they will probably increase in popularity due to Volcanion's presence in the first place, I guess we'll have to see.

I'd also mention HP Ghost as a viable move on this thing, for hitting Latis and Water-Psychics in one slot. Bug does this too, but Ghost also hits Jellicent, which is barely ever used, but since HP Bug has no real advantage over HP Ghost as far as I can tell, you might as well.


Specs and Scarf will almost certainly be the 2 main sets imo. Specs has already been discussed to death and I won't bother talking about even even more, but I think people are undervaluing Scarf a bit. Steam Eruption is obviously a very spammable move, and being able to just fire them off at high speed is really great, and though Volcanion isn't a perticularly fast scarfer, it still outspeeds most of the metagame, and being able to check stuff like Weavile, Diancie and Keldeo better, as well as get a second hit on stuff like Latios and Starmie before they heal up gives it an advantage over slower sets, especially on offensive teams.


As a whole, I don't think Volcanion will be quite as good as some people are hyping it up to be, at least as a standalone mon. Having both a SR weakness and low speed really limits the amount of teams it can fit on, you can point to stuff like Talonflame and Thundurus, but both have high speed which at least reduces the amount of pressure SR puts on them.

That being said, Volcanion seems to pair very well with some of the best Pokemon in the tier, the things that beat it are checked by Pokemon that are popular in the first place such as Pursuit TTar and Latios, and the support it provides itself really benefits a lot of dangerous threats. I can't wait to try out a Keldeo+Volcanion double choice water spam core which looks absolutely monstrous, especially with Pursuit support, and the fact that it's impossible to initially tell which will be Specs and which will be Scarf makes it just the more deadly.


So yeah, this thing will be a huge threat, primarily how well it synergies with popular threats. Can't say I'm too excited about having to account for yet another threat in teambuilding, but hey, at least it checks itself, right?
 
Hoopa-u never was the best mon to brean stall. Especially with those pursuit trappers everywhere it was only semi good vs it. But hoopa-u was always able to completely destroy balanced teams. It wont make a big difference for stall imo. But i would like to see some kind of stall nerf tho
 
Hoopa-u never was the best mon to brean stall. Especially with those pursuit trappers everywhere it was only semi good vs it. But hoopa-u was always able to completely destroy balanced teams. It wont make a big difference for stall imo. But i would like to see some kind of stall nerf tho
I can thoroughly agree with this post in regards to wanting stall to get nerfed, the amount of ladder games I came up against with stall was pretty gross. I don't think it needs a nerf or anything I just think it's super prevalent as a climbing utensil on the ladder. I can't really see how you nerf stall without banning something however and I think that kinda just ruins the integrity of OU as a tier (something is annoying ban it type mentality).
I still think Hoopa actually did decently versus stall regardless of trappers. I'm not sure what pursuit traps hoopa that take a d punch or a blast well tbh.
 
Watch the Manaphy, Mega Gard, Sub Mega Heracross and Volcanion hype on the ladder this weekend lol.

Manaphy and Mega Gard might be the go-to breakers because they can easily beat Mega Sableye while Volcanion is due to the "shiny new toy" syndrome. Note that Stall can still beat teams containing those breakers though.
 
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Feral Chaos is dead! Let Stall reign free forever more!

... and then get blown over as people start making use of all the stallbreakers and wall breakers that actually have reason to be used now. Seriously, there's going to be more usage of the "inferior" wall breakers that old Feral Chaos invalidated, while at the same time, defensive cores on teams will now be viable again. Volcanion being right around the corner with super scald powers is going to be really fun. Overall, I'm going to love seeing a more diverse, less HO-driven metagame now. Sure, Stall's going to surge in popularity for a bit, but once people realize that there's still Kyu-B, Megavoir, Megacross, Mew, Crawdaunt, Manaphy, etc. to break Stall in half, it will die down.
 
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Mannat

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Taunt Gard gets worn down fast as it eats Seismic Toss and hazards damage. Weavile also OHKOes it.
taunt mgarde isn't supposed to 1v1 chansey, it's supposed to taunt then let u go out to the appropriate mon with recovery or setup moves.
 
taunt mgarde isn't supposed to 1v1 chansey, it's supposed to taunt then let u go out to the appropriate mon with recovery or setup moves.
It does well wouldn't say it bodies it fam.
Getting burnt by sab kinda sucks and residual damage is not nice. I also would not risk taking 30% to taunt a chansey.
It does well but it doesn't "fucking body it" It can still get forced out by a punch of stuff and pursuit trapped due to dong defense.
 

Bice

formerly Viridi
So just judging from OU showdown chat, there is a lot of controversy surrounding the Hoopa ban and how "stall is going to rise again"

It really isn't. There are plenty of viable wallbreakers that are all amazing right now, and if you honestly think the sole reason Hoopa was banned was because it was bad for stall, you obviously not read the suspect thread at all. sry if this isn't meant to be posted here, but I feel that I had to say something to all the salty players out there
Dude, it's the OU room on PS, what do you expect? Reasonable logic?

Regardless, I am pretty happy that Hoops got the banhammer. Sure, I personally have a distaste for stall, but when you negate an entire playstyle and have zero reliable switchins, there's a problem.

Also, do you think mons will drop in usage now that Hoopa's banned? If yes, what?
 
Taunt M-Gardevoir might be annoying for any stall team but I've never actually seen one "body" a stall team at this current state of ORAS, or really "body" anything these days. I agree with Reiddos point above I kind of just wanted to state that M-Gardevoirs capabilities are a bit overrated when people say "it 6-0s stall" when that really shouldn't be the case and it's better at hurting some fatter balances.

Also the OU chatroom really isn't the place you should be going to for any sort of serious discussion barring like a few chill individuals who won't blow your mind with stupidity. It engages itself in some of the dumbest controversies and topics in existence at times and finds itself a place for people to vent about nonsense. Every time I go there I'm always arguing with someone....lol.

People might use less volt-turn, not by a much, but it was sort of ridiculous how many volt-turn teams you'd see with Hoopa-U involved because of the ease and how brainless it was to use. Glad it's gone, it really is for the better once you get past maybe the 5th or so time of hype after a suspect about stall or w/e.
 
At the end of the day stall is always hyped to high hell after a suspect and each time it fades away. Stall as much as I hate it has struggled most of this gen under the plethora of threats now available and even before hoopa came out the playstyle had to deal with powerful megas Like gardevoir, stallbreakers like mew and wallbreakers like gengar. Even stuff like calm mind clef or pup lopunny can potentially break stall.

Once people remember these tools exist the stall hype will die.

Anyway with hoopa gone what's the future like for mandibuzz and umbreon? Is there anything these 2 can check now that other stuff can't? Both seem outclassed now?
 

Mannat

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another mon that bodies stall is sub hera, it gets a sub up vs sab and kills sab with pin missle, chansey with cc, quag with pin, skarm with cc, amoong with pin, and weavile with cc quite easily. It doesn't ohko all of them but does very well vs the team.

edit: volcanion seems p good on rain, breaking shit like ferro, smacking rotom with rain specs steamer, smacking amoong, etc on top of specs steam eruption in the rain literally being impossible to switch into bar water immune mons and . It seems like a great filler mon on poli+dra+mega+tornt+kabu builds and could be really good at wallbreaking in rain, making rain into an archtype that does rly well vs stall with volc+lo tornt imo. Here's an example of what these teams would look like if you guys want.
Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest

Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Rapid Spin

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Taunt
 
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bludz

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I understand that the Weavile stall build is very popular, but when referencing a Mon beating stall there should be an attempt to cover other builds. That and Weavile in itself is not a stallmon lol so it doesn't need to be mentioned in terms of Hera bopping it...

Also I don't see why HP Electric on Volcanion. This is just walled by Gastro and Seis which are already gonna be the water absorb switchins, while Gyarados (I'm guessing the main target) is checked pretty well by Kabutops, Kingdra and Politoed anyway
 

bludz

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So yeah HP Grass as previously mentioned sounds way better, opposing Volcs can be hit by Sludge Bomb anyway, nor do they really check the rain sweepers
 
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