The way I see it, passive mons are ones that just sit there. No phazing, no damaging move that can kill opposing mons, nothing. In the meantime the opponent can set up, switch out, or just do whatever he/she wants. Chansey's usually a good example: without Toxic or Seismic toss (and even sometimes with Toxic), the lack of a really threatening move means the opponent can do usually do whatever s/he wants while it's out. The reason healing, defogging and spinning are considered momentum killers is because they're usually making your situation better without really hindering the opponent. Mid to late game, your opponent is far less likely to care if you waste a turn removing hazards because the damage has already been done.
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Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers (Read the OP First!)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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The simplest way I can define momentum is who's in a better position to pick moves at a given time. Passive Pokemon and Defogging are considered bad for momentum because while they do improve your situation, the opponent is not necessarily pressured/limited in what they can do by it.
In contrast, U-Turn/Volt Switch generate momentum because, by giving you the switch later, you can put out a counter to what's on the field, forcing your opponent to play in response rather than as they might have intended.
To put it very simply, having Momentum means being able to play proactively rather than reactively.
Vxy If you put offensive pressure on the other team you prevent it from switchin in or setting up for free. One of the most popular ways to get this offensive pressure is by using moves like U-Turn and Volt Switch. If you are using a bulky Landorus-T you give Mega Scizor an opportunity to switch in and eventually set up. If you use U-Turn on Landous-T and he switches in his Mega Scizor, you can go into Heatran for example so he can't set up and he is forced to switch again. This offensive pressure is momentum. A pokemon is passive if it lacks this offensive pressure. A pokemon like Skarmory gives nearly every special attacker a free switch because: what can skarmory do to prevent the special attacker to switch in for free? The lack of offensive pressure makes a pokemon passive and moves that put absolutely no pressure on the opponent (and giving them a free turn to switch in) like Defog are moves that make you lose momentum
From the usage stats:
Jirachi
Items:
Leftovers 70.069%
Choice Scarf 22.168%
Apicot Berry 1.818%
Expert Belt 1.391%
Other 4.553%
What is Apicot (spdef pinch berry) used for??
Jirachi
Items:
Leftovers 70.069%
Choice Scarf 22.168%
Apicot Berry 1.818%
Expert Belt 1.391%
Other 4.553%
What is Apicot (spdef pinch berry) used for??
Oh, right. Didn't see natural gift so I didn't make the connection to that. Thanks!
I know the most common set up for Special Sweeper Protean Greninja is this:
Greninja w/ Life Orb
Max EVs in Speed/SA
Hasty Nature
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
But what are your thoughts on alternative movesets for a Special/Mixed Sweeper (with a few EVs devoted to physical attack) like this:
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Dark Pulse
- HP Ground (Turns Greninja into Ground type and immune to Electric types)
- Aerial Ace (Turns him into Flying type immune to ground and is super effective against Grass, Fighting, Bug (3 of Greninja's normal weaknesses) while making those types not effective at all)
OR
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- HP Ground OR Aerial Ace
Part of me is drawn to the idea of using HP Ground and Aerial Ace (despite Aerial Ace being a physical move) because it offers Greninja super effective coverage against 4 of the 5 types he's normally weak against (the 5th being Fairy), and all of these moves change Greninja into a type that resists the types that he would have normally been weak against as a Water/Dark type, thereby lulling opponents into thinking their choice is super effective against Greninja, when in reality it isn't.
What do you guys think?
Greninja w/ Life Orb
Max EVs in Speed/SA
Hasty Nature
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
But what are your thoughts on alternative movesets for a Special/Mixed Sweeper (with a few EVs devoted to physical attack) like this:
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Dark Pulse
- HP Ground (Turns Greninja into Ground type and immune to Electric types)
- Aerial Ace (Turns him into Flying type immune to ground and is super effective against Grass, Fighting, Bug (3 of Greninja's normal weaknesses) while making those types not effective at all)
OR
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- HP Ground OR Aerial Ace
Part of me is drawn to the idea of using HP Ground and Aerial Ace (despite Aerial Ace being a physical move) because it offers Greninja super effective coverage against 4 of the 5 types he's normally weak against (the 5th being Fairy), and all of these moves change Greninja into a type that resists the types that he would have normally been weak against as a Water/Dark type, thereby lulling opponents into thinking their choice is super effective against Greninja, when in reality it isn't.
What do you guys think?
Greninja is banned.
Let's just assume for the sake of the argument that this isn't for strict competitive play and more for personal use among friends. How would you answer?
Use Mega Rayquaza.
I would say that a thread for the purpose of strict competitive play is not the best place to ask.
Then could you please direct me to a proper thread so that I may ask my simple question?
We don't have a proper thread for Greninja post-ORAS, so there's no real place we can send you to. If you go to the ubers SQSA thread they'll tell you that an all-out attacker set is bad on Greninja and tell you to use a hazards set. The suspect thread has a number of posts that won't really help. There are sources where you can get the optimal set, but none of the threads will really be able to recommend a set for you. If nothing else, here's the "Optimal Set", though the last 2 moves are up to you and are team-dependent:
Greninja w/ Life Orb
40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Speed
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- Coverage
- Coverage
Thanks, though what if I can't teach Greninja Gunk Shot because I don't have him on ORAS? Is that 4th move slot then just another "coverage" option?
Latios has the offensive momentum cause it can OHKO Slowbro and that forces the other player to switch. Once your oponent switch to chansey you lost your offensive momentum. To keep it you can go for psyshock to deal more damage or pull a double to something that threatens chansey like lets say conkeldurr
You probably want to mention that a lure move on a mon that seems to lack momentum such as power herb solarbeam on heatran vs slowbro can generate a ton of momentum.
Pretty much. It's nice for a lot of the fairies that would switch in, but ultimately Greninja was a late-game cleaner, so you should look at your other five members, figure out what is likely to still be alive after they run amok, and set Greninja's coverage moves to be whatever it needs to take out said targets.
Can a focus sash be restored with recovery?
Nope
I really want to play HO on the ladder, but I need some pointers on how to build a team. Do I always need a spin blocker/defog punisher? Are there any type combinations that I should favor or avoid? Can you list some mons not named Mega Lopunny that are viable on HO?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Read this post. Probably the best top to bottom description of HO building around.
Thanks, that was the kind of post I was looking for!
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