You shouldn't see MMawile because they banned it a while back.
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Mega Mawile was banned a while ago... :/
Wow, seriously? It has been some time...
Alright, well I'll be using MSableye anyway lol.
Back to the rankings, someone care to give me the reasons why MHeracross is in A tier? Not trying to say it's bad or anything, but it feels strange to see it so high.
It's great at demolishing stall, with swords dance it can sweep really slow teams. It has really good coverage moves, and moves with really high base power coming off of it's massive attack stat. It's basically one of the best physical wallbreakers, not to mention it's decently bulky as well. Also might I ask why you feel it to be strange that mega heracross is so high?
It's just been a while, so I wanted to see what people were using it for these days. Last I checked it had competition from the other Megas, so it wasn't used as much. (At least that's what I saw.)
But it's a stall breaker now? Interesting.
Yes, back then it had lots of competition, assuming you are talking about the mega mawile meta. Mega heracross was really walled by aegislash, and when both mega mawile and aeigslash got banned, the three wallbreaker megas started rising in popularity (mega medicham, mega heracross and mega gardevoir).
Also heracross is more of a wallbreaker than a stallbreaker, since it rarely carries taunt.
Also heracross is more of a wallbreaker than a stallbreaker, since it rarely carries taunt.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
For rank prespective, Mega Sharpedo is better than Scolipede for it's ability to trounce Skarmory and Landorus-T, slightly better resistance to priority, fully accurate main attack, and lack of life orb recoil.
Scolipede is firmly planted in B, and I agree with this ranking. Other than being faster for scarf lando-t, Sharpedo has a small advantage over Gyarados, and that is its perfectly consistent at set up. Gibbs, I think your argument addressing Gyarados' ability to set up is fundamentally flawed. The opponent really has to give Gyarados a set up by consciously going to -2 with Latios or locking himself into Hydro Pump rather than Scald knowing you have Gyarados in the wings. Further, the opponent's set up bait may not even be alive so late in the match. Sharpedo's consistency over Gyarados' at its one singular role: the late game clean is better actually. No matter what, unless the opponent has Talonflame, Breloom or Conkeldurr active as you bring Sharpedo in, it will safely secure a boost and be able to attack, unscathed. Gyarados is better than Sharpedo in general, but Sharpedo does have a slightly different and more consistent single ability.
Of course, the opportunity cost is Sharpedo's greatest downfall, but for its strength matching B rank and its not strict inferiority to Gyarados I would place Mega Sharpedo in B rank. It is proficient at what it does.
Scolipede is firmly planted in B, and I agree with this ranking. Other than being faster for scarf lando-t, Sharpedo has a small advantage over Gyarados, and that is its perfectly consistent at set up. Gibbs, I think your argument addressing Gyarados' ability to set up is fundamentally flawed. The opponent really has to give Gyarados a set up by consciously going to -2 with Latios or locking himself into Hydro Pump rather than Scald knowing you have Gyarados in the wings. Further, the opponent's set up bait may not even be alive so late in the match. Sharpedo's consistency over Gyarados' at its one singular role: the late game clean is better actually. No matter what, unless the opponent has Talonflame, Breloom or Conkeldurr active as you bring Sharpedo in, it will safely secure a boost and be able to attack, unscathed. Gyarados is better than Sharpedo in general, but Sharpedo does have a slightly different and more consistent single ability.
Of course, the opportunity cost is Sharpedo's greatest downfall, but for its strength matching B rank and its not strict inferiority to Gyarados I would place Mega Sharpedo in B rank. It is proficient at what it does.
DaVolterbomb
Banned deucer.
LOL DAFUQ, kind of relevance do these calcs have? JW. I'll just start by saying, terrible example and. . .0 Def Tentacruel <--- Not the best example for something that's "supposed" to be TAKING a hit. T_T
DedenneWay
Banned deucer.
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 484-570 (75.3 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Thought I should fix that >.>
Maybe the 0 def was to show it could MAYBE OHKO a 0 Def Cruel. . ? Idk. They're pretty bad examples.
CAN SOMEONE, please, EXPLAIN, what will happen to MSharpedo after an idiot keeps it in to use Crunch on MVenasaur??
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Not sure if you guys are being serious.... but I guess Ill address your "valid" points
First of all I used the correst calc
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 301-355 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO
everyone knows that if you see 52+ that clearly the 2 just got dropped off during the copy/paste
(your calc is including the LO)
As for the relevance of the calcs, how is showing how hard sharpedo hits his best switchins irrelevant? And do you really think physicaly defensive tentacruel is the standard spread? I will grant you that tentacruel doesnt particularly fit in with the other calcs, but I just wanted to show that sharpedo can just straight up OHKO a common stall mon even though its a neutral hit. But again the RELEVANCE is that if you have hazards up or just a little but of prior damage on any of sharpedo's "switchins" he can just 2hko them and then move on from there.
Finally, the calcs are not how sharpedo fairs 1v1 against these pokes, its shown what happens when something switches into him. So if venusaur switches in to rocks you could probably just 2hko it, but if rocks arent up then just get off that huge damage, make him use synthesis as sharpedo swithes out untouched.
idk judging by the number of posts on your accounts I feel like I am feeding trolls, but hey sometimes thats just what you got to do.
DedenneWay
Banned deucer.
There's this thing. Called alternate accounts. T_T
Ok. You guys? Idk wtf he's doing. I fixed an error. . .
I only named one of the flaws that was written. I can go on about the irrelevence of the calcs but I'd rather not waste my time. If you want me to tell you how your calcs are poor examples. I'm free to Oblige.
It's irrelevant because how hard can Sharpedo switch-in, to Venasaur? Who, would ever put up MSharpedo against MVenasaur?
You can't say SR. MVenasaur gets off a hit before MPedo second attack. You're LITERALLY insisting that someone is ignorant enough to switch in their MVenasaur, into a MPedo, onto SR, knowing it gets hit twice . . . What more do you want me to honestly say fren?
16 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sharpedo: 276-326 (98.2 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 142-168 (39 - 46.1%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
1/5 chance even w/SR. You're gonna go all in on Queen-Ace when MVenasaur has pocket 10's before you even see the flop?
^I saw a problem. Please. Dropppp it
DedenneWay
Banned deucer.
If it's any consolation, I agree with your reasoning for B rank for him (pre-edit)
This has nothing to do with Sharpedo, but instead, some of the changes suggested before Mega Mence is banned. I'm talking about rank changes for these Pokemon: Thundurus, Metagross, Pinsir, and the S rank mons. I'll go ahead and assume I'm able to talk about them; I'll start off with Pinsir.
As we all know, Pinsir is facing competition from Mega Mence, for now, and the suggested change was for it to go from A+ to B. I think that's going to far; imo it should drop to B+. Sure, it has a hard time finding a place in teams thanks to a certain dragon, but it's still a threat nonetheless. A few notable things Pinsir has over Mence is priority, slightly higher Atk stat, and Swords Dance. Although they are the only things that Pinsir has over Mence (correct me if I'm wrong there), it's still the powerhouse we all know and love today. To make it short, I'm all for dropping Pinsir from A+ -> B+.
Now onto the current S rank mons, starting off with Megazard X. I support its drop from S rank to A+, but it should go no lower than that imo. Atm its DD set is kinda outclassed by M&M (Mega Mence) and its Bulky WoW set, from what I've been hearing, isn't as spectacular as it used to be.
Concerning Latios, I'm kind of on the fence on it dropping or not; I'll come to a decision later.
Now onto Keldeo. I feel it should drop from S rank to A+ rank, and maybe even A, but that might be overdoing it. In the current metagame, its speed tier is now pretty average, compared to other base 110 threats such as M-Gallade and M-Metagross; as a result, it can easily be dented or outright KO'd. However, that doesn't mean its bad now; Keldeo still packs a punch w/ its Specs set, so yeah.
Gren can stay in S for obvious reasons.
I can't explain any further on other threats; running low on time, so yeah. Feel free to disagree with my choices!
As we all know, Pinsir is facing competition from Mega Mence, for now, and the suggested change was for it to go from A+ to B. I think that's going to far; imo it should drop to B+. Sure, it has a hard time finding a place in teams thanks to a certain dragon, but it's still a threat nonetheless. A few notable things Pinsir has over Mence is priority, slightly higher Atk stat, and Swords Dance. Although they are the only things that Pinsir has over Mence (correct me if I'm wrong there), it's still the powerhouse we all know and love today. To make it short, I'm all for dropping Pinsir from A+ -> B+.
Now onto the current S rank mons, starting off with Megazard X. I support its drop from S rank to A+, but it should go no lower than that imo. Atm its DD set is kinda outclassed by M&M (Mega Mence) and its Bulky WoW set, from what I've been hearing, isn't as spectacular as it used to be.
Concerning Latios, I'm kind of on the fence on it dropping or not; I'll come to a decision later.
Now onto Keldeo. I feel it should drop from S rank to A+ rank, and maybe even A, but that might be overdoing it. In the current metagame, its speed tier is now pretty average, compared to other base 110 threats such as M-Gallade and M-Metagross; as a result, it can easily be dented or outright KO'd. However, that doesn't mean its bad now; Keldeo still packs a punch w/ its Specs set, so yeah.
Gren can stay in S for obvious reasons.
I can't explain any further on other threats; running low on time, so yeah. Feel free to disagree with my choices!
Ok well thank you for proving you are either trolling or just incredibly ignorant to how the metagame works.
However,Ill entertain your post because its like 4:30 and I have nothing going on at the moment.
First of all your calc was wrong, mine was right. So thanks for fixing that for me....
Secondly, Sharpedo will NEVER switch in to venusaur that is my point, venusaur would switchin to sharpedo because that is most likely their best answer for sharpedo on their team and I doubt that even experienced players are aware that sharpedo can 2hko fully physically defensive venusaur after rocks. So yes I can say that with stealth rock up venusaur can not switchin when sharpedo is on the field,(also I really dont think venusaur run max physical bulk, but apparently neither do you unless you think we have 520 evs to play with). But I am LITERALLY saying that venusaur can not switchin, that is my whole point, how did you gather that by me proving he cant switchin with SR that I am insisting that they would switch him in?
I really dont think anything I say will get through to you though, so I guess Ill just stop.
Edit: 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 484-570 (75.3 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO this is the calc I am referring to that was wrong.
and DedenneWay you clearly missed the entire point of those calcs, they are just simply demonstrating how hard sharpedo hits the pokemon that commonly switch in to him. He is able to do enough damage to force them to recover as you can switch out to a pokemon that can better handle the situation. I am not saying that everytime sharpedo gets in free he will get a kill, but he can hit stall pokemon very hard in the early game and once they have all been sufficiently weaknened he can start cleaning up and getting some ohkos or 2hkos.
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DedenneWay
Banned deucer.
Evrything you said was based on pure assumption. Your calcs were off and non-standard as well. So yes, I made a physically defensive Venasaur?
Nothing you say is going to get through because it's (which you CANNOT afrgu) 100% based on a dice roll. I said, even if Venasaur switchd into SR, the guarantee for a 2HKO is soooo low, you can't even make the situation viable, which renders the entire Vena-Pedo example invalid and or incorrect. It's too high risk to argue it valid. C'mon lol My calc was correct EV/IV/Stats. The damage is after SR, maybe that's why it looks wrong? My bad then fren. I just asked you to drop it. You didn't have to respond at alllll lol
Nothing you say is going to get through because it's (which you CANNOT afrgu) 100% based on a dice roll. I said, even if Venasaur switchd into SR, the guarantee for a 2HKO is soooo low, you can't even make the situation viable, which renders the entire Vena-Pedo example invalid and or incorrect. It's too high risk to argue it valid. C'mon lol My calc was correct EV/IV/Stats. The damage is after SR, maybe that's why it looks wrong? My bad then fren. I just asked you to drop it. You didn't have to respond at alllll lol
Soul dew has been found in ORAS. This should be considered until (well, if, but most likely until) it's banned when discussing the Lati twins non-mega and mega ranks.
well with Soul Dew Back, and i imagine they won't be quick banned (Maybe they should be, but the Meta is very different compared to when we last let Soul Dew Lati@S loose) we can bump them up a few ranks. proooobbbbbaaaaaabbllllllyyyy S but there is alot of dark moves running around. Fairys too prevent Draco Nukes as much.
I wanna test em out first, preferably when Meance goes, but they seem S-Rank to me.
I wanna test em out first, preferably when Meance goes, but they seem S-Rank to me.
DedenneWay
Banned deucer.
As for Pinsir I would say drop to B/B+ with Mega Mence usable . . .honestly, remain the same if there is no Mence. No matter what, Mence is always in a win condition in A + B scenarios.
I agree with Charizard. There aren't really any new counters except what you said and MGaraydos as well actually.
I would drop Keldeo down, again, if this is pre-mence ba, just because of M-Mence. It has the potential to take M-Metagross, however it's based mostly on predictuion, therefor no exaactly viable /
Gren can stay S lolll
DedenneWay
Banned deucer.
I agree. But I think Dew will get the QB this time, and if not, maybe a week.
DedenneWay
Banned deucer.
That's kind of the problem I have with my comments. I can't really respond to it pre-banned unless I refer to it post banned. . . T_T
its hard to tell. The enviroment is very different now. i see a very quick suspect test, probably with ban result, not a QB
DedenneWay
Banned deucer.
I was going by hoping they noticed what happened last time. Obviously there is no MegaLati - Dew, but it should still be a lesson from last time, like you said lol
Please edit your comments; the same person posting three time in a row can make the thread cluttered very, very fast.
The Soul Dew outclasses the M-Lati@s. But on the other hand, between speed creep, priority, fairys and the power creep through megas, the Soul Dew Lati@s can be dealt with far easier. Soul Dew or no, Clefable laughs at your face.
I see em suspected, fast, but for now, Solid S
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