Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V5 (See Page 43 - Post #1063)

HailFall

my cancer is sun and my leo is moon
my only issue with that would be that it would mean normal latias and mega latias would be sharing a rank, though mega latias is so much more overall effective. Normal may not have the mega slot opportunity cost but its pretty hard to justify when its only major niche is healing wish. I would ask that normal latias drop to B too if this were to happen as its just really outclassed by latios.
 
MegaGross for A
MegaGross has tons of things going for it. First of all, it has great stats. 145 attack is pretty strong, 80-150-110 is great bulk, and it sits at a good speed tier. It also has a great ability in Tough Claws, boosting the power of every move MegaGross commonly uses (except Earthquake, if that's common) by 33%, which makes MegaGross really strong. A relatively good typing of Steel-Psychic gives it common resistances such as Dragon and Fairy. Finally, it has tons of good coverage moves, ranging from Earthquake to BoltBeam punches to Hammer Arm. It might be status weak and have a few common weaknesses, but its positives seriously outshine it's negatives.
 
basically this

i really feel like surf + psyshock mega lati is a worse megabro. especially since the latter gets scald and has huge physical bulk, and an immunity to critical hits for a calm mind sweeper isn't too shabby either. the point is that surf + psyshock is the main argument for latias to stay in A- looks like, but i fail to see how this set is better than CM megabro.

as for CM reflect type, well this set is shit for the simple fact that it's a mono-attacking set, which leaves you helplessly walled by the only S-rank (clefable), or you can run psyshock and get shitstomped by weavile and ttar

mega lati should drop to B+. also, suicune shouldn't rise lol, if anything it should drop too
People literally explained why Mega Latias is not outclassed by Mega Slowbro - do not reiterate points that have already been refuted.

Also, if you are going to continue to nom Suicune to drop, you need to at least look at what others said on why they do not agree (it is there right after your Suicune nom) instead of continuing to act as though nobody ever challenged your argument.
 
Ok, one bigh-mouth MIT student (watch out for him, cuz he's student of one of the best university in the world) PM me some nasty stuff so I get so mad that I checked replays from World Cup showing how underwhelming it perform.

I don't care about you and your life achivements don't intimidate me, I got my own. But here are replays! Alll from World Cup.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-170050

TRAPPED TURN3! Not even mega evolve


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-169380

Trapped turn 14, did nothing in entire match

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-170983

Mega Latios grab one kill on 16% terakion (sack) and died to moonblast

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-172648

Trapped turn 23, grab 0 kills.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-170448

Paralyzed and killed by Medi, 0 kills

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-171032

Walled nothing, 0 kills

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-170550

Lost 1v1 to Mega Metagross, 0 kills

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-168404

Autolost to ZardX, 0 kills

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-168847

Lost 1v1 to dragalge, 0 kills

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-170822

0 kill,

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-170562

did nothing, sacked to stone edge

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-169169

sacked to draco, not even mega evolve

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-172264

lose 1v1 to NP thundurus
 
Well, in the humble opinion of someone Who loves the game and is trying to get envolved with the community (me), WCoP's statistics do say something. If 22 of the best players in the world bothered to use Mega Latias, there's a reason for it. However, there's a reason for only 8 of them (assuming that the 22 games were all played by different players) have won with Mega Latias. I believe that they saw something in the mon, something that could work out, but it didn't. So, as we're talking about high level of play, and obviously it's almost impossible that 14 high level players all misplayed, this statistics actually prove something: MLatias is not so good. Yeah, maybe you can use it effectively, but it is not so viable. That's the truth. Or, at least, it's truth for me. Hope that I wasn't rude.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
There have been many horrible arguments throughout the centuries, like "usage does not indicate viability" and "winrates don't matter" etc. But now, you have people saying that WCOP, high level matches, don't matter? Are you serious? I tried nomming mega absol to D, and replays were required, and I understand why. That rule makes sense. But now, when replays disagree with people's arguments, they come up with excuses against it? I think replays of high level gameplay should hold some weight and not be met with pretentious shitposts.
EDIT: OK AM deleted his shitpost so I guess he agrees with my point lol
 
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Tournament stats are generally miss leading as the win loss rate does no usually represent the viability well for example in most tournament clef win loss is under 50% and it the best Mon in the tier I think your better going of usage not win loss.

Also I just like to say it make me a little angry when people things like mega latias won after X and Y Mon dies like that applies to pretty much every pokemon as most set Mon as when there counters die they win
 
Tournament stats are generally miss leading as the win loss rate does no usually represent the viability well for example in most tournament clef win loss is under 50% and it the best Mon in the tier I think your better going of usage not win loss.
The thing is: usage for MLatias is less than 2%, which means, I think, that it is OU only because of technicality. So, seeing WCoP stats and the usage, we can pretty much assure that MLatias is not that viable.
 
This is something I brought up to the team. Its not super well fleshed out so grain of salt but here it is:

I think all the Megas in B+ are pretty bad and hard for me to call them much better than the ones in B. I think there's a discrepancy in effectiveness among A- megas (Mega Meta and Mega Hera being clearly better than Mega Latias and Gardevoir, for example). Idea would be to continue the philosophy that got us to the new rankings and essentially drop some stuff from B+ to B and subsequently from A- to B+. Would be mostly Mega evolutions in my estimation I don't see any other A- mons worth dropping though there could be a few B+.

Also I think Alomomola should definitely rise and I could see Zapdos in B as well. Rain mons should drop
Consider this to be your new slate and talking points. Mega Latias discussion is done from here on out, that "math" bullshit that worked its way into posts 796 and 798 should have been about the end of it. Move onto something else please, or posts will be deleted from here on out, you guys know the deal.
 
Agree with B+ megas and Latias dropping to B, they all suck shit. Either metagame trends have largely been againstt them (Venu, Manectric) or they just wern't that good in the first place (Slowbro, Latias). As for the megas in A-, I'd drop Lati and Zam, and maaayybbbeee Garde could go too tho I don't see much reason for it. Another thing that could stomach to drop is Hippo, thing didn't deserve to rise in the first place IMO and is overall mediocre as a Bulky Ground and Sand Setter.
 
I won't mind dropping mega gardevoir + mega latias down to B+ while the current B+ megas down to B rank, its pretty clear that mega gardevoir is alot easier to slap on teams than the megas in B+ and can be a threat to stall, balance and offense nicely however I feel it needs to drop down a rank since well the megas around it are just better mega metagross, pinsir, alakazham for me are just alot better while mega latias has the case as mega garde just better megas in A- than mega garde and mega lati but if we do drop mega garde + lati down to B+ then they're easily the best megas in that rank and not on the same level as mega venusaur or mega slowbro since lati and garde are way better in most situations and they better at being splashable than the megas in the current B+ rank so I agree with dropping mega gardevoir + mega latias down to B+ rank while the current B+ megas to drop down a rank to B
 
Gonna nom Shedinja from D to C.... This nom is soley based on Shedinjas niche on stall and has a much bigger impact on the metagame then the mons in C- and D... Shedinja on stall teams like brans stall etc has become a staple because it blows many stall breakers because of wonder guard. An example of this is in this replay of a decently high ladder battle http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-418220906 where Shedinja stops lum dnite to win the game... Now Shedinja is a VERY niche pokemon and should only be used on stall teams... however Shedinja has become one of the faces for certain stall teams like brans and deserves to be ahead of mons like hoopa who dont define the meta anywhere near what shedinja does..
 
Want to preface this post by saying that I, like many others as I imagine, love the idea of having a single Pokemon as the bastion of all that is powerful in the OU tier, but I think it's time for a little shake up, a little change of the status quo.

+
A+ -> S
These two Pokemon alone hold the tier together. There is never a reason not to use them on any team that isn't stall or semi-stall. I consider them just as good as Clefable. I'm not one to give a massive tldr essay the majority of the time, and this is one of those occasions, as you all know what they do. One thing I will say though is not to say "muh Lando isn't really threatening, yeah its splashable but what else?", because, this splashability isn't so much splashability, it's more of a result of necessity from all of the things it beats. This splashability isn't standalone, it stems from something.

As for the B+ current new slate goes, I'm inclined to agree for the most part. True, there is a discrepancy between the A- megas at the moment, and to be honest, Mega Bro sucks donkey dong. I don't think Mega Manectric should drop, though, it's still incredibly threatening on Spikes stack+breaker, which is a great framework anyway, maybe I'm just bias or maybe I just have a soft spot for Manectric, but I think it deserves a little more respect than it's getting as of late.
 
Latios -> S agree
This Mon is so good many of it counters are kill with addition of EQ and Hp fire to it moves it the best form of harzard control in the tier imo it walls Many treats and it one of hardest hitting Mon in the tier

Like yea it can be pursuit trapped but there only one that does it well being t-tar and latios is paired with common partner of keldeo the t-tar switch can be turned back on them as its so predictable

As of Landot well it on pretty much every team that isn't stall for a reason
 
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Yeah I could definitely get behind a rise for both of those mons to S, especially landorus. I mean, talk about the number of advantages that that thing has, and how few drawbacks it has? Seriously that guy is just so usable, it blanket checks almost every physical attacker in the tier, it is exceptional at gaining momentum, and its offensive sets are super underrated, especially scarf. I honestly don't need to explain why that pokemon is good do I? I mean the only disadvantage is it doesn't have reliable recovery but the VERY large list of pros that it has outweighs that
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
+
-> S: Agree

Ya im leaning to agree at this point that both deserve the coveted S-Rank alongside Clefable in the current state of the meta. I will detail my reasonings as followed:

: Landorus-T is hands down one of the best role compressors that a player can use thanks to the ability to check so many threatening physical wallbreakers/sweepers and be able to pivot out almost effortlessly to give you crucial offensive momentum. It is almost always able to reliable setup SR almost every game due to the fact that it can force many switchins with players fearing the infamous EdgeQuake combo. More players are also starting to use the deadly dual dance sweeper set with greater effect especially in tourneys such as WCOP and SPL. Lando is able to severely weaken its checks like Skamory, Tangrowth, and other Lando's with its coverage moves and being able to pivot into mons that threaten said check. Choice Scarf Lando is also another set that is re-surging in popularity from its BW days and acts as a great set to check other fast mons. With threats such as Terrakion, Offensive Mega Scizor, and Mega Herracross on the rise, Lando should definitely be placed in the top tier es-halon and has been deserving of this for a while now. People stating that "oh its splashable but not that effective" argument do not take into consideration the high win-rate which comes with the overall use of Lando-T...

: I too used to think that Latios was pretty average when everyone was using the standard Draco + Psyshock Defog set that honestly was not really that showing of its true potential. However, once I started to explore other sets like the HP Fire/Surf/Tbolt Defog set and the CM set, Latios had really shown me how good and useful it can actual be. It checks a multitude of of fearful threats such as Keldeo, Rotom-W, Heatran, Slowbro, Volcanion, etc... and can dent so many holes in teams that lack a Fairy with Draco Meteor. I hear you behind your screen yelling "Pursuit destroys it!!". While this might be somewhat true, it all comes down to the Latios player effectively swithing out when the opposing team has an incoming Tyranitar/Weavile they have ready to come in (even though Ttar cannot repeatedly come in on Dracos and Weavile just dies). Its too much of a good offensive pivot like Lando-T to not be deserving of S-Rank at this point as well.

Also agree with the Mega Gard and Mega Lati drop and agree with Mega Manectric staying in its current rank as of know. Also what ever happened with the Mega Medicham discussion?
 

p2

Banned deucer.
i can't see lando-t or latios in s rank, both are pretty amazing mons and in the case of lando, it's high usage is mostly because of the overbearing presence of zardx/lop/exca and is easily the most splashable check to them. latios has gotten a good bit better since people are exploring more options like hpfire+surf, tbolt+eq, specs etc, it's definitely gotten a lot more dangerous since it's punishing teams that don't have a fast pursuit to shut it down, but i don't think it has the meta dominance or influence that clef has.

just ask yourself this: are lando/latios so good in ou that they can be put on the same level as clef? i strongly disagree with putting them near s, and in my opinion even the second best mon in the tier (mega sciz) is still a fair stretch away from s.

Also what ever happened with the Mega Medicham discussion?
it was killed off because something similar to the abomination called the last few pages happened during the medi discussion.

other stuff:
mega gyara is fine in b+, mega manec can drop because its utter dogshit, neutral on mega bro, and venu can drop like a rock, don't think anybody cares about it anymore.
 
Alright dudes, we're gonna try something a bit different for the next few days. This thread will be locked for three to four days, just to refocus the thread. Come the time this thread is unlocked, there will be a focused list of discussion points, even if it's only what bludz posted condensed into bullet points. We're going to try locking and unlocking this thread in intervals every so often, with the hope it leads to more focused discussion.

If you have any qualms with this, shoot me a PM. This idea was mostly mine that I kinda pushed through, so I should be the one to deal with concerns. See you all here in a few days!
 
I'll start then... Couple I really resonate with.

Volcanion to A- : Agree

If you'd asked me when this thing came out, I'd have thought you were off your nut, with the most spammable move in the world that 2HKOs nearly the entire metagame, it felt like a top A+ mon. But in practice, every team has something to deal with this thing, Lati@s are so prominent and with Latios now nearly always running roost, they both check Volcanion so well. It's SR weakness is so crippling, as it's not fast enough to just fire off many attacks, meaning it can't live long enough to even break through much (very similar to Victini imo). Scarf Lando rising again obviously doesn't help. It is however a great threat to many things like the bulky grasses as well as Sciz which are everywhere right now and this is enough to keep it in A-.

Mega Venusaur to B : Agree

I never feel a need to use this mon. It's so passive, that it only fits on Stall/Semi-stall, and on Balance I guess. However on those teams, it's so difficult to justify it over Sableye and Scizor combined with either Amoonguss or Tangrowth who're so common right now. Sand stunts its healing, and it's just overwhelmed by half of the meta and has been looking like dropping for ages. I think Mega Sableye being introduced was just the nail in the coffin, cause the utility it provides is so invaluable for defensive teams unlike Venusaur who kinda eats hits and annoys people without doing much else. Birdspam returning doesn't help either

Zap can prob rise cause of Xtra's birdspam team
Said my piece on Klef
Not too bothered about the others
 
This Volcanion shit is still going on? I already stated my qualms with dropping it previously, so I'm not going to type it up. I think with these slates, something more than "X drop/rise to Y" is necessary. We need explanations as to why you as the ranking team think these topics should be discussed. I don't think Volcanion should drop, yes it requires support, but that's why it's not S. It checks a large portion of the meta with Key pokemon in that list, has ridiculously spammable moves, and hurts everything in the tier, couple that with 30% chance to burn or poison and you've got a pretty sizable problem on your hands. It's FAR from easy to switch into. I already know what all the "agree" comments are going to say. Rocks, lack of recovery, and its checks, yes checks, being common. Give us more than just the nomination. You're the ranking team, clearly you're pushing for these to happen for a reason, lay it on us.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Gonna be brief 'cause it's late but just glancing over the slate here are my main thoughts.

Volcanion: Neutral
I can see a case both for and against this. Keld+Volc and Tran+Volc are both v. potent especially given how good BandTar is atm, but it can be p. limiting to teambuilding 'cause SR weak and kinda crappy defensive synergy courtesy of it's stat spread moreso than it's typing (Water Absorb and fairy resists are dope but it's not all that fat+can't really do much back to waters short of PHerb+Solar Beam or Toxic), and Volc archetypes are usually pretty linear with their setup without said setup being completely stupid for any one "blanket" archetype to deal with like is the case with Zard Y squads.

Crawdaunt: Agree
I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that this is one of those periods where Crawdaunt is v. good so I shouldn't need to elaborate too much, but yeah

Mega Gardevoir: Agree
Noticably worse than most of A- barring MLatias, although my opinion on this isn't that strong as I don't use Mega Gardevoir much. Often p. hard to justify and not all that splashable tbh.

Mega Latias: Agree
Not that hard to deal with, noticably worse than the entirity of A-, and considering that I agree with almost every B+ mega on the slate dropping it won't be misplaced there.

Mega Alakazam: Agree lean, but kinda neutral overall
Zam thrives in a meta where spikes are good (spikes is insane atm) as it fits hella well on spikes builds, but on the other hand it doesn't thrive when the best offense sub-archetype (birdspam) manhandles it despite it's status as an offense breaker.

Mega Manectric: Agree
Yeah elec is bad atm if ur name isn't Thundurus. Having zero coverage is dong although I guess it's kinda nice to be an electric which doesn't get a headache from Amoonguss existing. Sand is good, and while there is a case given birdspam's popularity I don't think that it is consistent enough at dealing with it due to it's pukeworthy ability to switch in on Flare Blitz+how easily it is worn down.

Mega Venusaur: Agree
Kinda hard to justify ever using this nowadays. The ability to not have the offensive presence of a wet flannel+access to Leech Seed over Amoonguss is nice, as is the ability to counter Keldeo over Tangrowth, but when your only form of recovery beyond Leech Seed is Synthesis, sand is everywhere and you are grounded combined with this competition, it is just kinda eh in general. Like, it's not bad so much as being hard to justify.

Mega Slowbro: Disagree lean
Before I start Mega Slowbro is not comparable to Mega Latias so can people not make the comparison. Secondly the reason I'm kinda skeptical on a drop is that people don't really prep that heavily for it, with their Slowbro answer often consisting of one of Bisharp or Weavile and Latios or smth like that (Bish/Vile don't win 'cause KOff is lol, and Latios can't OHKO with Draco after 1 Calm Mind and just gets Slacked Off and abused short of it carrying TBolt/Thunder or smth like that). If you are able to get rid of BandTar though you often find yourself pretty much set to sweep short of shit like toxic, meaning that it just wins a lot of matches on team preview unlike some other 'mons. Kinda got Volcarona syndrome in that respect except it's much fatter. Like, it's no biggie if it drops but I like Slowbro's capabilities a little to much to be able to solidly get behind it.

Zapdos: Agree
Zapdos is nice for it's ability to manhandle birdspam short of Stone Edge Pinsir, which means forgoing priority for the sake of one target. As such yeah this 'mon is definitely good atm. Defensive is defo where the electric type shines in the current meta imo as the flying resist is useful in a meta where flying is borked, and when your choice of defensive elec is this, Rotom-W or an E rank chances are you're gonna go for this if you want to consistently beat birds as Rotom isn't that reliable really+it loses to MPinsir if it gets in before Rotom does.

Klefki: Agree lean
Like, I don't use Klefki much but it really isn't that consistent tbh. Nice if you need spikes on offense I guess but short of that it's just heavily overshadowed by other better 'mons for the most part. Just want to say that people need to get over Magnet Rise tho as it's far from it's best option nowadays.
 
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Volcanion needs to drop, don't really think it is on the same level as weavile, thundurus and garchomp, can be pretty easy to play around with, weak to sr sucks especially since it is not the fastest mon in the world with no priority, lati twins are enjoying roost more these days, alomomola + gastro are on a little rise, vs offense is pretty hard for volc teams so yeah I reccomend dropping. (still good at nuking tho)

I recommend keeping klefki in B rank, very nice contributor to hazard stack, good switch in to latis, has good support movepool from status and magnet rise, don't feel like its on the same level as celebi, kabutops and raikou but more on the same with regular gyara, slowking and alakazham.

mega venu is very passive and I rather have pokemon like amoonguss and tangrowth as my bulky grass mons which don't even cost a mega slot, only thing going for mega venu is thick fat and walling bd azu but tangrowth + amoonguss pair very well with fat waters and heatran just as good as mega venusaur so please drop mega venu down to B rank.
 
Volcanion drop to A-: Agree. Very scary mon to switch in to, but it's just too easy to wear down for it to be a top-tier pokemon in this metagame. A- fits it just fine.

Crawdaunt rise to B+: Agree. This thing just obliterates the defensive backbone of most teams. Just look at all the pokemon that make up the typical defensive cores that bulky offense and balance use: Amoonguss, Lando-T, Rotom-W, Slowbro, all of them get destroyed by Crawdaunt. Even shit like Tangrowth and Alomomola really struggle against it. Obviously its slow speed and frailty limit it a lot against faster offensive teams, but I think it's a perfect fit for B+

Mega Gardevoir drop to B+: No opinion. Pretty scary mon but I don't have all that much experience with it, so hard to say where I stand.

Mega Latias drop to B+: Agree. Shocked it's taking so long for this thing to drop. I'd love to see a high level replay where Mega-Latias does anything other than sit around and die, because it would be a first for me. If anything I think it should be lower than B+.

Mega Alakazam drop to B+: Not sure about this one. Alakazam is hit or miss for me. It's definitely scary, and trace let's it do some cool things, but it always seems to die really easily. Neutral

Mega Manectric drop to B: Disagree. I don't know why everyone is so down on Manectric. A lot of defensive cores really struggle with it. Amoonguss, Lando-T, RH Tangrowth, Garchomp, Mega-Scizor, Talonflame, etc. Manectric runs through all of them. In addition, many of its counters, like Venusaur and Hippo, are very uncommon right now. There are a lot of other things going for it: volt switch momentum, intimidate, and the fact that it's one of the few good stops to Thundurus-T, but I'll leave it at that for now. Obviously it's going to struggle with bulky shit like TTar and Clefable, but dropping it to B on that merit doesn't make sense to me.

Mega Venusaur drop to B: Neutral. While Mega-Venusaur is almost never my first choice of mega, it checks so much stuff on paper that I have a hard time seeing it in B. On the other hand, its lack of passive recovery and its reliance on synthesis make it far worse in practice than it looks on paper. I will say though that if we were to have a big shake up in the rankings with things like Mega-Alakazam and Mega-Gardevoir dropping to B+, then I would probably support Mega-Venusaur moving down to B.

Mega Slowbro drop to B: Neutral. Don't have nearly enough experience with this pokemon to decide.

Zapdos rise to B: Agreed. Zapdos has been seeing a lot of high level play lately and I have no problem seeing why. I've been using a bulky set with discharge, heat wave, and hp ice which gives it coverage that a lot of teams struggle with (see Mega-Manectric above). Obviously it's also a very competent defogger and a good counter to some scary threats like talonflame and pinsir.

Klefki drop to B-: Disagree. Am I the only one who hates seeing Klefki on my opponents team preview? Every team I use seems to give this thing ample opportunities to get up spikes. Prankster t-wave is a little easier to play around but definitely an annoyance as well, and something that prevents things like Heatran from switching in with impunity. I can definitely see why Klefki would be dead weight against certain teams, but it's certainly not bad enough to fall to the dregs of B-.
 
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Ahhh, the sweet taste of freedom.

This Volcanion shit is still going on? I already stated my qualms with dropping it previously, so I'm not going to type it up. I think with these slates, something more than "X drop/rise to Y" is necessary. We need explanations as to why you as the ranking team think these topics should be discussed. I don't think Volcanion should drop, yes it requires support, but that's why it's not S. It checks a large portion of the meta with Key pokemon in that list, has ridiculously spammable moves, and hurts everything in the tier, couple that with 30% chance to burn or poison and you've got a pretty sizable problem on your hands. It's FAR from easy to switch into. I already know what all the "agree" comments are going to say. Rocks, lack of recovery, and its checks, yes checks, being common. Give us more than just the nomination. You're the ranking team, clearly you're pushing for these to happen for a reason, lay it on us.
Ok if you honestly want a reason as to why Volc is on the slate it's because people here (you and I included) have been talking about it for probably about a month now. It's why everything that's on the slate is there, we've been talking about it and the Team wants to see more discussion on it before they make a decision, I don't see why they or anyone else should have to explain this lol. But let's focus more on your talk about Volc shall we: firstly, you saying that "requires support, but that's why it's not S" may be the stupidest and most condescending things I've ever read. You're basically saying "yeah all you guys in favor of Volc dropping have legit points but we're not talking about Clefable so fuck you," it's like me nomming Exploud to ranked and glancing over all the crippling flaws it haves and saying that it's only at D so they don't really matter. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, tho, your whole post is just you overselling Volc anyways. Saying it checks a "large portion of the meta" is ridiculous, it's only really checking water types and most, if not all, have a way to prevent it from switching in (Keldeo has Secret Sword, Suicune roars it out, hell even Azu, the mon Volc was hyped up for checking when it was first released, just knocks-off its Specs and makes it way easier to switch-into). It has good STAB moves for sure, but they're not the most spammable things in the world since both carry only 8 PP, meaning you can stall em out pretty easily. And Ik you probably don't care when people in favor of Volc dropping bring up its proneness to being worn down and its checks being common, but here's the problem: those are completely valid points and should be discussed when talking about whether Volc deserves to drop. If you want to ignore Volcanion's big, crippling flaws, be my guest, and more power to you. Just don't act like the Ranking Team needs to write you an essay on why they dare to add Volcanion to the slate, it's your job to make arguments about whether Volc should drop, not them.

As for the rest of the noms, here we go:

Manectric is a waste of a mega slot, plain and simple. Elecs not named Thundurus are real bad rn and as something that beats offense it's hopelessly outclassed by Lopunny who is stronger and has much better coverage. Also people who use Manec as a Birdspam check LUL

Still don't like the idea of Garde dropping since I think it can be really effective but yeah it really isn't as good as Pinsir or Gross and would be more at home in B+.

Don't wanna touch on Lati too much since I don't wanna get dragged into another flame war if it ever happens again but I never understood why you would want to waste a mega slot on it when you could easily use Latios, get the same defensive utility, and save your mega slot for something better like Scizor. Drop it.

Zam struggles too much in this meta, dies to priority and its niche as a breaker of offensive teams is kinda lost since the really frail HO teams it would do well against aren't as popular anymore. Not to mention it relies on Focus Blast to beat dark types LUL.

Fuck Venusaur, drop it. I said this a million times, please don't make me have to say it anymore :pirate:

Don't care about Zapdos, thing should've stayed in UU IMO but its niche as a birdspam check can be huge, so I can agree with it rising to B.

Slowbro's more a meme mon than something I would seriously use, can be very hard to stop once it gets going but this goes for most CM sweepers anyways and if you're relying on crits to beat a CM sweeper then you probably already lost the match. Drop to B.

Abstaining from Daunt/Klefki, don't use them and I can see why they're effective but I wouldn't use either a ton and don't have enough experience with them as a result.
 

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