ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread (Final ORAS Update - Post #1164)

[hyw]

What alt are you using/do you have any good replays? All of these arguments in favor of Arceus-Ice sound convincing on paper but I still can't shake off the demerit of using up an Arceus-Form for a type that provides no defensive synergy.

 

[Lord Outrage]

Something I don't like here and just noticed is Mega Kangaskhan being lower than Blaziken. Like seriously why is mega Kangaskhan so low. How can you put a Mega like Kangaskhan with Mega Scizor.
Mega Kangaskhan first of all hits extremely hard whatever it's running. I will show some points. Even if what I will write is so obvious but Kanga with Scizor is making me salty.
1)Parental Bond ability. Breaks through sashes and substitutes and makes him hit like he has choice band.
2)No It's not set up bait to Salamence you just retarded and suck if you think so. The shit can run Ice Punch now hit both Mence and Yveltal as well as Lugia and Giratina almost like Crunch would.
3)Very strong priority with higher priority than extreme speed in Fake Out. So could revenge kill lots of pokemons with it.
4)105/100/100 In defenses is really good for offensive pokemons even in Ubers and his 100 base speed is not bad at all either.
Now Take a look at the best set this gen:
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Earthquake / Sucker Punch
- Ice Punch

This should be in B+.

 

[hyw]

Adding to this, not being able to hir Groudon as hard + prevalence of Salamence should lower Blaziken's viability.

 

[Krauersaut]

I agree completely with Outrage, but think that B+ is a little bit high - I think that a better alternative would be to simply swap Kangaskhan and Blaziken-Mega.

 

[Dilwar]

Ya Khan fits at B, it's the same as other B ranked mons like Kyu-W, Zekrom and Palkia - don't really offer much from a defensive standpoint (Palkia can't even check P-Ogre now) but hit really hard and tough to switch into. It was moved down way too harshly.

Also Blaze should move down further. Like hyw said prevalence of P-Don and Mence are big drawbacks, not to mention it's hugely outclassed by Mence. There's hardly any reason to use this mon. Like you can do Wobb + SD Blaze but even then Wobb + DD Mence is just better. Imo Mega Lucario should at least be in the same rank as Blaze.

 

[Cheryl.]

I think Deoxys-D should go down to D rank. What is this thing's niche? It has good bulk, sure, but it's let down by it's horrible 50 hp. It's shut down by Taunt as all it can do is set up with Calm Mind or set up hazards. It doesn't have much of an offensive presence, so it can be set up bait for many pokemon like Darkrai. Honestly, it's not on par with the other C- mons like Ditto or Lando-I, and should move down to D rank.

 

[Astounded]

Mega-kangaskhan = B: Speaking of Mega-kangaskhan, It is limited to an extent in what it can do and has no real way of BSing past checks like Skarmory and Mega-Sableye, but it does have just great synergy with a ton of other big threats. Good offensive core breaker / Decent balance breaker, that can abuse great bulk and decent speed to have an impact against offense. Mega-kangashan fits in the category of threats that have common checks but still offer more than enough positives to outweigh the downsides.

Having said so, I do support the promotion from its initial B- placement, B+ seems a bit too high. :>

 

[Peli]

Mega Lucario C+ ---> B-

Mega-Lucario hits extremely hard, with it's ability boosting close combat to 240 base power. Although the speed is average along with mediocre bulk, Lucario can OHKO Darkceus,Xern, and Darkrai. Lucario has great coverage options in Stone Edge for Ho-Oh and ice punch for Salamence and Rayquaza. Lucario also has a priority option in an Adaptability boosted bullet punch. Inner Focus can make for a niche anti-kanga lead, and Justified can give boosts on predicted dark moves.

 

[Lord Outrage]

Nayrz you should come imo :p

 

[dusk raimon]

Alright, there are a LOT of changes as you can probably see. A couple were moved due to criteria changes (looking at you, Mega Mawile) but the rest of them were discussed on IRC with the help of dice and Fireburn before the thread was posted. The full changelog (some written by dice and are noted as such) with explanations is here:

Beware long list

Latios & Latias: A+ >>>> S- Rank

Despite the ubiquity of bulky steel-types, Lati@s still maintain a top spot in the metagame. In fact, the rationale for having steels on almost all bulky/balanced teams is because of the presence of these Pokemon. They are actually quite diverse, being able to stallbreak effectively with Calm Mind and even cheese teams with Healing Wish or Memento. And, of course, the ubiquitous Defog set gives several teams a way to use an offensive Arceus-Forme. With moves like Hidden Power Fire, Lati@s can effectively circumvent certain checks and counters, and being able to check both Primal Pokemon fairly well, they are very splashable in several teams. Modest Lati@s hit extremely hard, and very well can break even the most well built of teams. - dice

Arceus-Ghost: A+ >>>> S- Rank

Arceus-Ghost is still the best non-Normal Arceus Forme. The resurgence of Lati@s gives it another Pokemon to check, not to forget that it also is an effectively counter measure to several other Psychic-types in the tier. Checking non-Refresh Arceus-Normal (or using Focus Blast) is also a major boon. Also, Arceus-Ghost is one of the few Arceus-Formes which cannot be threatened by Wobbuffet's presence. Swords Dance Arceus-Ghost is also a very underrated and threatening Offensive Sweeper. It is actually quite diverse, and you can't know which set it is running when its sent out; Swords Dance and Calm Mind have very different sets of checks and counters. This Pokemon is most definitely deserving of S-. - dice

Primal Kyogre: A+ >>>> S- Rank

If a Primal Kyogre switches into your Primal Groudon, you know something bad is going to happen. This Pokemon can overpower even Lati@s and effectively as a check to Primal Groudon with a physically defensive set and CM Arceus with a specially defensive set. It has quite a few tools in its kit, and this Pokemon is vastly underrated next to Primal Groudon. Although you have to be careful about Groudon coming into it, Primal Kyogre can tear apart teams with meticulous play and smart teambuilding. - dice

Klefki: A >>>> A+ Rank

Klefki is, quite simply, the best Spike-user and most splashable Steel-type in the metagame. Being able to threaten common Defog-users such as Lati@s and Giratina-O, and having access to Toxic for Defensive Arceus make Klefki a reliable hazard-setter. Although Diancie and Sableye may not be the most fun opponents to face, the fact that Klefki is a catch-all check and counter to Darkrai, Xerneas, Yvetal, and Lati@s, just to name a few, cements this Pokemon in A+. - dice


Mega Gengar: S- >>>> A+ Rank

Shadow Tag is most definitely a major threat in the metagame, Gengar's major downfall arises in its major opportunity cost to Salamence, comparatively speaking. Being a worse check to Arceus-Normal and lacking the offensive prowess that Salamence provides, Gengar has to be on a team which can take advantage of the specialization Gengar provides. Quite simply, Gengar is simply overshadowed by Salamence in 8.5/10 teams, making it have to drop. - dice

Arceus-Ground: A- >>>> A Rank

Arceus-Ground is the only Arceus-Forme which reliably checks Primal Groudon. This is reason enough to move it up to A-Rank. - dice

Arceus-Dark: A+ >>>> A Rank

Arceus-Dark's best niche is as a stallbreaker which sadly is almost nonexistent in the metagame. On balance as a CM Arceus-Ghost answer, Ho-Oh (and Yveltal to an extent) is far more splashable, while on Stall, Blissey and Kyogre are the go-to answers. This Pokemon, of course, has a unique niche in also providing a Mewtwo check, but from anecdotal experience, this metagame is just not suited for Arceus-Dark as well as the above Arceus-Formes. It's still fantastic for sure, but lacks the luster that Ghost and Normal have. - dice

Yveltal: A+ >>>> A Rank

While Yveltal has undoubtedly strong attacks, its far too easily checked by Fairy-types to be worthy of A+ rank. Teams that Yveltal fit on usually use the Phys Def set, and even that falls flat to many physical threats to be very useful.

Arceus-Water: B+ >>>> A- Rank

It's one of the few Arceus-Formes that can check Salamence. Also, Arceus-Water matches up somewhat well against Kyogre and is a cockblock to Ho-Oh. Primal Groudon can't stop this Pokemon when it's neutral to Ground-STAB and can Toxic. The common Stealth Rock set loses to this Pokemon 1v1. - dice

Deoxys-S: B+ >>>> A- Rank

Still as useful as a hazards lead as ever, and has the movepool to get around Magic Bouncers and Defog users if needed. Its very difficult to stop Deoxys-S doing its job, and not many teams have ways to anti-lead it.

Groudon: B+ >>>> A- Rank

Groudon is the most viable Primal Groudon check that can effectively set Stealth Rock. It also provides other boons as well-- the permanent Sun gives Ho-Oh free reign which not even Primal Groudon can provide. Also, it can also run an item like Lum Berry to lead against even Darkrai and still ensure Stealth Rock. On most teams, Primal Groudon is the best option, but Regular Groudon is most certainly a viable option to look out for. Primal Kyogre's seemingly underused status as of now makes this Pokemon even more viable. - dice

Ferrothorn: B+ >>>> A- Rank

Serves as a great blanket check to a number of threats, and is generally annoying with Leech Seed and Spikes.

Mega Sableye: B+ >>>> A- Rank

Magic Bounce is an extremely strong ability, and Sableye makes fantastic use of it. With a typing only weak to Fairy, Sableye can is hardly ever OHKO'd allowing it to annoy even the worst of matchups. Its typing also effectively allows Sableye to be fantastic switches to Mewtwo and Arceus-Normal, two major threats in the metagame. Foul Play also dissuades set up on this Pokemon. Due to Magic Bounce making Taunt unnecessary, Sableye's last move slot is flexible as well-- Sucker Punch, Toxic, Knock Off, and even Metal Burst are viable choices. This Pokemon is a fantastic answer to Suicide Spikes and has a strong defensive niche. - dice

Wobbuffet: B >>>> A- Rank

Much like Forretress below, this Pokemon also gained viability with the introduction of Custap Berry. It can defensive check Mewtwo on offensive teams, and give the most dangerous set up sweepers in the tier like Salamence and Primal Groudon a free turn of set up. Its team supporting capabilities makes it a godsend on more offensively inclined squads, and is quite dangerous against many matchups. Its presence against certain Pokemon simply dissuades the opponent from sending them out, giving the Wobbuffet user an inherent advantage from the team preview. - dice

Tyranitar: B+ >>>> A- Rank

As seen by its usage in SPL, this Pokemon is actually quite legit in ORAS. Although Primal Groudon is a thorn in its side, the ability to Pursuit-trap the omnipresent Lati@s and check Salamence with Shuca Berry give Tyranitar a unique niche. With Excadrill being able to hit Groudon super effectively, Sand as a playstyle actually gained viability. - dice

Forretress: C >>>> B+ Rank

Forretress is the go-to suicide Spiker with the introduction of Custap Berry with its access to both Toxic Spikes and Spikes and ability to 'Defog-Block' with Explosion. It also matches up well against the standard Deoxys-S set. With its Sand immunity, it is more reliable than the other suicide Spike leads and deserves a move up. - dice

Excadrill: B >>>> B+ Rank

As mentioned above, Excadrill's ability to hit Primal Groudon effectively made sand a more viable playstyle. Additionally, the ability to check Lati@s, Xerneas, and other fastmons allow Excadrill to pose a threat to Offensive teams which run rampant in the metagame. - dice

Skarmory: B >>>> B+ Rank

A nifty Salamence check and Spike user, Skarmory found its beak in the spotlight yet again. Although Lati@s can sometimes cheese even Specially Defensive sets with Calm Mind or Hidden Power Fire, its still a pretty reliable Pokemon with its ability to check most Physical attackers and phaze. It even can OHKO Diancie with Iron Head making it a more reliable Spike user than even Klefki.
It is, however, a free switch in to many threatening Pokemon like Primal Groudon and Kyogre which is why it's ranked much lower than its Fairy comrade. - dice

Mega Scizor: A- >>>> B Rank

It can't Defog on the most common Stealth Rock user. It can check Lati@s and Arceus-Normal still, but a free switch-in to Primal Groudon makes it a mediocre option on most teams. - dice

Mega Aerodactyl: C+ >>>> B Rank

As a Stealth Rock user for offensive teams which checks Ho-Oh, Salamence, and Arceus-Normal, it has a valuable niche. Additionally, it outspeeds all Arceus formes and thus Lati@s which allows it to keep Stealth Rock up. The newborn ForreAero core manifests the power of this Pokemon. -dice

Mega Blaziken: B+ >>>> B Rank

The new ORAS mons appear to have driven Blaziken into obscurity, and its not hard to understand why. Blaziken's STABs are easily resisted by common threats in Salamence, Ho-Oh, Giratina-O and the Latis. Blaze can still run coverage to hit them however, and its ability to act as a pseudo scarf mon in a slow metagame can work for some teams, its just that compared to XY Blaziken, it has fallen a long way.

Arceus-Grass: C+ >>>> B Rank

If Primal Kyogre goes up in viability, so do its checks. Arceus-Grass is no exception. Its ability to counter Groundceus is also a big bonus, and Grass Knot still hits Groudon for heavy damage.

Gliscor: B+ >>>> B- Rank

With Primal Groudon able to run special sets, Gliscor runs out of things to check, and is harder to justify on a team.

Palkia: B+ >>>> B Rank

Palkia's offensive abilities have not changed, but the lack of a defensive niche really lets it down.

Mega Metagross: C+ >>>> B- Rank

"basically its an offensive lati/xern check that doesnt give fires free switchins" - fireburn

Landorus-T: B >>>> B- Rank

Same reasons as Gliscor, really.

Mega Kangaskhan: B+ >>>> B- Rank

Kangaskhan's matchup vs HO is still very good, and it can heavily pressure teams with Spikes up. Its problem is that outside of the HO matchup, it doesnt have much else going for it.

Arceus-Electric: C >>>> C+ Rank

If Iceceus moves up, its only right that Eleceus does as well. Eleceus can still soft check birds, but the weakness to Primal Groudon and the non-STAB Ice Beam still hurts it from going any higher.

Arceus-Ice: C >>>> C+ Rank

With Ice being a great STAB in the current meta, and its ability to check Yveltal + Mence means its only right that it moves up.

Arceus-Flying: C- >>>> C Rank

Flying Arceus isnt the worst Pokemon out there, as Flying STAB is proving to be very good in this meta (see: ray, mence). It may be hard to justify over either of the two previously mentioned, but it can still work as a "Special Salamence" in very niche situations, and is also bulkier than Salamence in exchange for some resists and the lack of a mega stone.

Hippowdon: C >>>> Unranked (rejected for analysis)

Smeargle: C >>>> Unranked

Sticky Webs is an unviable playstyle, and Smashpass is as gimmicky as ever. See ya!

Ditto: C+ >>>> C-

Does well versus HO and general setup mons, but is more of a band-aid for lazy teams than a viable Pokemon.

Mega Slowbro: C >>>> C-

A fairly niche mon that has trouble checking Salamence even with 180 Defense. Still checks Primal Groudon however.

Tentacruel: C+ >>>> C-

Primal Groudon exists. Need i say more?

Mega Mawile: C- >>>> D Rank

I have no idea why anyone would ever use this.

that's all folks!

Current points of discussion are:
Gliscor - Should it move down further?
Arceus-Ice - Should it move up to B- ?
Mega Slowbro - is it viable? should it move to unranked?
Reshiram - D rank material or not?

Bear in mind discussion is not only limited to the above highlighted points! There were a lot of changes in the transition of threads, so discussion on all of those is encouraged too.

About the smeargle and webs not being viable, i got 1623 today and 88 GXE as my peak with webs. Very unviable.

 

[absdaddy]

About the smeargle and webs not being viable, i got 1623 today and 88 GXE as my peak with webs. Very unviable.

does that mean my solo one man army murkrow swagger xy 'team' that got me to 1400s was good

 

[Nayrz]

Alrighty i guess i'll update now due to the recent resurgence of posts. Quick reminder for those wanting mons in D rank - D rank is specifically only for mons that are uber by tiering but unviable in the meta. Wanting mons in D doesn't work unless it is banned from OU. Keep that in mind when suggesting spots.

Change List:

Mega Kangaskhan: B- >>> B
Mega Lucario: C+ >>> B-
Mega Blaziken: B >>> B-
Arceus-Ice: C+ >>> B- (to show it's more viable than Arceus-Electric and it was suggested already, however the option of Iceceus in C+ and Eleceus in C is available, lemme know and i'll change next update)
Kyurem-W: B >>> B-
Deoxys-D: C- >>> D
Mega Aerodactyl: B- >>> C+ (it may be good on the team its made for, but has not yet proven to fit anywhere else)

The Spikers

Forretress: B >>> C+
Greninja: B- >>> C+ (may change depending on discussion)
Cloyster: B- >>> C+
Scolipede: Stays C+

Plenty of changes this time around, next update will be whenever i feel discussion has reached a conclusive point to change stuff.

side note:

About the smeargle and webs not being viable, i got 1623 today and 88 GXE as my peak with webs. Very unviable.

If you are gonna give a sarcastic remark on a nearly 3 month old update post, at the very least give evidence to support your claim, replays or anything that isn't "heres my hot opinion, take it". People have hit high ladder with all sorts of stuff (see: ubers ladder challenges thread going on right now) so ladder peaks do not speak for viability alone.

 

[dusk raimon]

Alrighty i guess i'll update now due to the recent resurgence of posts. Quick reminder for those wanting mons in D rank - D rank is specifically only for mons that are uber by tiering but unviable in the meta. Wanting mons in D doesn't work unless it is banned from OU. Keep that in mind when suggesting spots.

Change List:

Mega Kangaskhan: B- >>> B
Mega Lucario: C+ >>> B-
Mega Blaziken: B >>> B-
Arceus-Ice: C+ >>> B- (to show it's more viable than Arceus-Electric and it was suggested already, however the option of Iceceus in C+ and Eleceus in C is available, lemme know and i'll change next update)
Kyurem-W: B >>> B-
Deoxys-D: C- >>> D
Mega Aerodactyl: B- >>> C+ (it may be good on the team its made for, but has not yet proven to fit anywhere else)

The Spikers

Forretress: B >>> C+
Greninja: B- >>> C+ (may change depending on discussion)
Cloyster: B- >>> C+
Scolipede: Stays C+

Plenty of changes this time around, next update will be whenever i feel discussion has reached a conclusive point to change stuff.

side note:

If you are gonna give a sarcastic remark on a nearly 3 month old update post, at the very least give evidence to support your claim, replays or anything that isn't "heres my hot opinion, take it". People have hit high ladder with all sorts of stuff (see: ubers ladder challenges thread going on right now) so ladder peaks do not speak for viability alone.

Sorry

 

[Lord Outrage]

Sorry

No need to be polite bru, be a thug jk. Anyway about Sticky Web being viable or not, I think it is viable and I made a very strong RMT about it here. The things it struggles against are Darkrai and magic bouncers as well as Latias but it's not totally unviable, If you have enough skills to build around it. Something important to note is that it's very hard for HO and BO to deal with it specially if you designed your team in a way to deal with defoggers. I think it can work on ladder and vs specific opponents but it's totally less viable than XY for sure and its machup dependent.

 

[Eren Swaeger]

Bisharp to rank c imo.
Bisharp counters lugia which is a common defogger, and a commonly used support mon and sp.def tank on teams
Offers defog control and takes care of common defoggerrs like girantina, lugia, and the lati twins.
takes a hefty 60-70% off of lugia with pursuit
Has no problem against are us ghost and mega gengar which literally kills 1-2 things before dying
Can opt for low kick other than iron head to catch mons like darkrai, primal kyogre and groudon and arceus off guard
Fills mega scolors roll better than it does itself
Has trouble dealing with sweepers after they've used moves like geomancy, and swords dance
May have trouble fitting on a team, like yveltal
While imo bisharp does fit scizor's roll hpbetter, scizor can live a +2 from arceus normal and xern, which bisharp fails to do

This is all I have for now I'll update if I find anything new. Open to feedback.

 

[Karxrida]

Bisharp to rank c imo.
Bisharp counters lugia which is a common defogger, and a commonly used support mon and sp.def tank on teams
Offers defog control and takes care of common defoggerrs like girantina, lugia, and the lati twins.
takes a hefty 60-70% off of lugia with pursuit
Has no problem against are us ghost and mega gengar which literally kills 1-2 things before dying
Can opt for low kick other than iron head to catch mons like darkrai, primal kyogre and groudon and arceus off guard
Fills mega scolors roll better than it does itself
Has trouble dealing with sweepers after they've used moves like geomancy, and swords dance
May have trouble fitting on a team, like yveltal
While imo bisharp does fit scizor's roll hpbetter, scizor can live a +2 from arceus normal and xern, which bisharp fails to do

This is all I have for now I'll update if I find anything new. Open to feedback.

Lugia 1760 stats:
| | Roost 88.510% | | Toxic 75.779% | | Whirlwind 65.996% | | Aeroblast 41.500% | | Ice Beam 37.846% | | Substitute 13.684% | | Calm Mind 13.500% | | Thunder Wave 13.252% | | Recover 7.612% | | Dragon Tail 6.295% | | Psyshock 6.070% | | Psychic 4.656% | | Roar 4.285% | | Reflect 3.480% | | Other 17.536%

1630 stats:
Moves | | Roost 78.481% | | Toxic 68.812% | | Aeroblast 58.046% | | Whirlwind 47.481% | | Calm Mind 22.550% | | Ice Beam 20.857% | | Substitute 14.086% | | Recover 13.872% | | Thunder Wave 12.827% | | Dragon Tail 8.574% | | Psychic 7.681% | | Psyshock 7.087% | | Protect 6.137% | | Roar 4.660% | | Defog 4.333% | | Reflect 2.936% | | Rest 2.364% | | Other 19.213%

1500 stats:
| | Roost 68.922% | | Aeroblast 64.175% | | Toxic 57.600% | | Whirlwind 31.971% | | Calm Mind 29.834% | | Recover 17.483% | | Ice Beam 16.298% | | Psychic 12.037% | | Substitute 12.031% | | Thunder Wave 10.756% | | Dragon Tail 9.979% | | Psyshock 8.609% | | Protect 6.465% | | Reflect 4.220% | | Defog 4.138% | | Roar 3.844% | | Hydro Pump 3.836% | | Light Screen 3.235% | | Dragon Pulse 2.913% | | Earth Power 2.770% | | Extrasensory 2.134% | | Rest 1.980% | | Earthquake 1.850% | | Giga Drain 1.790% | | Surf 1.672% | | Other 19.457%

Shit stats
| | Aeroblast 65.526% | | Roost 62.244% | | Toxic 50.178% | | Calm Mind 30.564% | | Whirlwind 25.939% | | Recover 17.881% | | Ice Beam 15.356% | | Psychic 14.058% | | Substitute 10.724% | | Dragon Tail 9.887% | | Thunder Wave 9.509% | | Psyshock 8.677% | | Protect 6.281% | | Hydro Pump 5.887% | | Dragon Pulse 4.924% | | Reflect 3.902% | | Defog 3.788% | | Earthquake 3.491% | | Blizzard 3.377% | | Roar 3.332% | | Light Screen 3.154% | | Extrasensory 3.134% | | Earth Power 2.855% | | Psycho Boost 2.823% | | Giga Drain 2.330% | | Surf 2.150% | | Shadow Ball 2.150% | | Thunderbolt 2.122% | | Rest 1.935% | | Ancient Power 1.703% | | Aerial Ace 1.632% | | Other 18.488%

It barely shows up unweighted, how the hell is it common?

Also who'd even use Lugia as their Defogger when they want Multiscale intact?!?

EDIT: Also Bisharp is bad because it's slow and frail and not that strong. A Steel-type that gets murdered by Xerneas' Moonblast is pathetic.

 

[Asmodean]

AV Bisharp as Lati trapper y/y?

Seriously though, Bisharp doesn't have any niche in the metagame except maybe trapping latis by coming in on defog. It's too slow and not as strong unboosted.
Undeserving of a ranking imo.

 

[Peli]

Sableye B- -----> C- or unranked

I honestly do not understand what sableye brings to the metagame other than prankster taunt + willo which in my mind is not enough merit to keep sableye in the B rank.

C Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that serve specific niches in the metagame. C Rank Pokemon can be very reliant on team members for support just to minimize their flaws as well as to function. They may also suffer from large degrees of opportunity cost to the point of being outclassed in some areas.

Sableye fits the C rank more. Specific niches to check sd Arceus and certain Salamence. It's 50/75/65 defenses don't help either.

In terms of Sableye usage the only time non-mega Sableye is used is when the player is saving prankster, when is mainly used on the first turn only as magic bounce is needed in most cases.

Items | | Sablenite 95.978% | | Other 4.022%

 

[ApplepieFTW]

yeah, sab was pretty good on xy stall where it was a good ekiller check and anti-lead as well as decent vs other stalls. I don't know why you'd use it in oras tbh. it doesn't switch in on anything, and there is no reason to not use mega sab over this thing. c- imo

ps even in xy it faced competition from spiritomb!

 

[Astounded]

Blissey = B: Okay, is it just me or is this mon a bit underrated? I sincerely believe that this should be at the same rank as clefable. Blissey is just such a key part of a major playstyle (stall), where it can fulfill a huge swath of roles - special wall, status support, cleric, etc. There's really nothing else that replaces it (yes i'm looking at you clef), and while it's certainly possible to build a stall team without Blissey, the degree to which it eases teambuilding can't be stated enough. It's been a major component of stall teams since its creation, and I don't see its viability (on stall) fading for a long time.

Posting some replays from UPL 5, In order to support my nomination here:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-222404260

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ubers-61095

 

[Lord Outrage]

Sableye B- -----> C- or unranked

I honestly do not understand what sableye brings to the metagame other than prankster taunt + willo which in my mind is not enough merit to keep sableye in the B rank.

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Confuse Ray
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Will-O-Wisp/Foul Play

;]

Also I totally support Astounded in moving Blissey to B rank.

 

[Cheryl.]

I'm going to nominate Jirachi to go down to B-/C+ rank. It's not very good in this meta. Serene Grace Iron Head is nice, but it never hits hard. It can WishPass, which is always nice, and a specially defensive set can be a neat check to Xerneas, but it's destroyed by PDon and can also be killed by Primal Kyogre, and is also destroyed by Dark types like Darkrai. Jirachi has a niche, but it's not enough for B rank, so Jirachi for B-/C+.

 

[Random Passerby]

Forgot to post this yesterday:

1) Do you people think Zekrom deserves to drop? It doesn't provide much of a defensive backbone (if any) and it's Offense capabilities are questionable.

Let's talk about it's Offensive uses: If running a Choice Scarf, you are giving dangerous mons free set-up opportunities with your STAB (Bolt Strike means Mega Mence and Double Dance Groudon sets up on you) while Outrage is a free ticket for GeoXern. ExtremeKiller is not OHKOed and can OHKO you in return with a +2 Extreme Speed if Rocks are up. Sure, you 2HKO support Arceus-forms but this only prevents them from switching in on you (You will lose the 1-1 battle since Arceus survives the Bolt Strike, burns you, survives another Bolt Strike and Recover spam). If you are running Life Orb, you hit harder but you can't revenge kill reliably with that Speed (Speed tie with base 90s and losing to anything faster is bad. ). Sure, you beat Lugia, Ho-oh, Yveltal and Kyogre-P with any set but Zekrom doesn't like switching into them either.

Defensive uses: As stated above, even on things Zekrom beats, it hates switching directly into them except Lugia as Ho-oh has Sacred Fire / Earthquake, Yveltal's Dark Pulse, Foul Play + Sucker Punch hurts while Ice Beam from Kyogre-P will also leave a huge dent. It also cannot really switch in on most other threats as it is mostly 2HKOed (for example, Arceus-Ghost 2HKOes it with Judgement without any investment in SpA) and it can't OHKO back.

2) Shaymin-S is also a little too high imo. This thing is super frail and doesn't even hit that hard. SubSeed, Air Slash flinches and Seed Flare may be annoying while Healing Wish is cool but being walled by Flying-types and Dragons are bad. As stated, this thing can't switch in on anything, ever so you need to give it a free switch-in somehow. Even when it comes in, you don't hit that hard even with a Life Orb as 120 SpA is really average for an Uber, especially when you need to rely on Air Slash (as most Ubers resist Grass so you can't spam Seed Flare) . This means you are OHKOed back or even worse, get set up on, unless you get lucky with a flinch. The low physical bulk also means priority moves such as Yveltal's Sucker Punch and ExtremeKiller's Extreme Speed will sting, especially with LO recoil and weakness to Stealth Rock. SubSeed is annoying but it dies to anything unless it is behind a Substitute, which you need to set-up on something you scare out (read: not many as most Ubers can take a hit and OHKO back).

 

[Cheryl.]

Sableye B- -----> C- or unranked

I honestly do not understand what sableye brings to the metagame other than prankster taunt + willo which in my mind is not enough merit to keep sableye in the B rank.

C Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that serve specific niches in the metagame. C Rank Pokemon can be very reliant on team members for support just to minimize their flaws as well as to function. They may also suffer from large degrees of opportunity cost to the point of being outclassed in some areas.

Sableye fits the C rank more. Specific niches to check sd Arceus and certain Salamence. It's 50/75/65 defenses don't help either.

In terms of Sableye usage the only time non-mega Sableye is used is when the player is saving prankster, when is mainly used on the first turn only as magic bounce is needed in most cases.

Items | | Sablenite 95.978% | | Other 4.022%

i agree because it has bad defenses and why would u use this over megasableye?

 

[Lord Outrage]

Random Passerby if you take a look at B-, zekrom is definitely at least a bit better than every single one of them which is why being in B sounds good to me.