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Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter PISTOLERO
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This isn't the place to be asking that.
Deoxys doesn't give a shit about Lati@s because it has access to Knock Off.
I nominate Darkrai for S rank. It's incredible speed allfter thatows it to outspeed a go for DV. Aftete r that, gg bro, this thing is at +2. It does hate E-killer, but that is only a minor weakness. I also nominate Arceaus-Rock for A- as it deals with Ho-Oh and Lugia, huge threatsto the metagame while reliably setting up SR
I disagree with Darkrai for S. It is still very good imo, but just not on an S rank level. I, for one, have trouble fitting it on a team that isn't full offense, primarily due to the other archetypes needing more defensive niches in Pokemon than anything (this is where they can use Darkceus or Yveltal), rather than a frail mon that hard stops defog once, puts something to sleep once, and has some potential to sweep. Darkrai almost needs Life Orb to do its job properly, otherwise its power is extremely underwhelming. This is terrible in the versatility department, and although Arceus-Normal has almost no versatility either, it is litterally the best cleaner in the game due to natural bulk (easier time setting up) and being immune to almost all forms of revenge killing (which is another niche E-Killer has: revenge killing threats with Speed boosted). While Darkrai lost a handful of revenge killers, it gained a rather centralizing check in Primal Kyogre who lives any +2 hit and KOes Darkrai with Origin Pulse or Scald after something has been slept. Ho-Oh is better than ever also, and is still a very nasty Darkrai check and Sleep absorber.
Darkrai is something that only faster offensive teams can utilize fully a lot of the time, it has limited versatility, is easier to check than the S Rank mons after Dark Void is used, and has few defensive niches to offer. Although Darkrai is a strong mon on hyper offense and archetypes like it, it is limited outside of this and should therefor not be S rank.
Darkrai is something that only faster offensive teams can utilize fully a lot of the time, it has limited versatility, is easier to check than the S Rank mons after Dark Void is used, and has few defensive niches to offer. Although Darkrai is a strong mon on hyper offense and archetypes like it, it is limited outside of this and should therefor not be S rank.
Well, if a HO team gives Lati@s a defog at ANY point during the game, the team's build is flawed.
While Darkrai is definately a very good mon, I don't think it's S rank material. Honestly the real archtype it fits in with is HO. Balance maybe and stall of course not. Also the increase of magic bouncers in mega sableye and mega diancie doesn't help it. STAY A+
Arceus-Rock, while it does check Ho-Oh, it still gets rekt by the biggest threat in the meta; primal groudon. It also gets destroyed by other common threats such as Primal Kyogre and Arceus ground.
The real problem with Darkrai is that a lot of people are now better prepared for it as a whole. With stuff like Banded Sleep Talk Ho-Oh, Mega Diancie, Genesect, Deo-S and the ever-present Xerneas roaming the tier Darkrai always has stuff to worry about regardless of whether you use it to lead or late-game sweep. Sure, ORAS gave it some new targets in the form of the Latis but that doesn't justify it jumping up to S. Furthermore, when threats like PDon and Yveltal can tank a hit their responding move will often mean game over for Darkrai. It's still a brilliant A+ mon imo, but not S worthy.
TL:DR Keep at A+
TL:DR Keep at A+
Finally remembered to sticky the thread lol.
Anyway I got a couple quick thoughts before I head off to bed:
Anyway I got a couple quick thoughts before I head off to bed:
- Gastrodon should be removed. Reason being that the metagame has much more useful Kyogre checks in Latis and Primal Groudon, and its utility is limited outside of Toxic. The other big thing it could check (Arceus-Electric) is rather garbage in this metagame as well, so not really much reason to keep it.
- Kyurem-W should get a small rise to B or B+. The metagame is rather kind to Ice attackers due to the sharp decrease in usage of bulky Waters due to Primal Groudon/Latis, Blissey is rare and is usually passed up for Clefable on stall due to the latter's ability to check CM Arc Dark much better, and Kyurem-W has the tools to blow through Steel-types. Scarf Kyurem-W is a surprisingly good cleaner/revenge killer - it can clean well due to a lot of prominent being vulnerable to its strong Ice Beam, it can revenge kill SD Arceus-Ground, and unlike most other Scarfers Primal Groudon does not like switching into Kyurem-W at all.
- Arceus-Ice should be dredged up from D-Rank for similar reasons. Ice-typing is still garbage defensively but quite potent offensively and the relatively Ice-weak metagame means it can put in some work once you get Steels out of the way. I'd put it in C as it is almost assuredly better than Arceus-Fighting at least.
- Clefable should go up to B, it's a staple on stall teams due to being able to handle GeoXern + all relevant CM Arceus formes (although it needs Calm Mind to do this reliably).
- Arceus-Electric should go down to C+, it's garbage except for Flying resistance + not being PrimalOgre bait like Rockceus is.
- Giratina-A should go down to C or C-, I would never ever ever use it over Giratina-O in this metagame ever. Levitate makes all the difference in the world for taking on Groundceus/PDon.
- Mewtwo formes should stay at A+ for now, they're getting some usage in SPL and I want to see how they do before making a final decision.
- Deo-S should stay A-, dual hazards does suck now but Dual Screens is good and those types of teams are still quite threatening. Going up against a DD PDon/Mence with screens up is not a good time.
- Flyingceus should go to C- or even D, if you need a boosting Flying attacker that can heal off status and check PDon Mega Salamence is way better due to similar Speed tier + more power + resistance to Fire allowing it to beat Plume PDon + Ho-Oh to an extent.
I do agree, The minor increase in bulk is not going to mean much, although it may allow for setup against resisted attacks....
It's more a technicality then anything. D-Rank here is kind of like UU's D-Rank in that they contain bad pokemon who are in the tier so that they at least get mentioned which Deoxys-N is. On the other hand E-Rank is for bad pokemon who aren't an uber that have had they're analysis rejected like Chansey.
Ah, I see. Shouldn't the D-rank description be edited to reflect this, then? I get what it's saying but it doesn't exactly outright say unviable.
True, but on the other hand Deoxys-N and arguably Arceus-Bug are completely unviable, so it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to be in D if it isn't classified as an unviable tier.
Still, I feel I'm probably gonna clutter up the thread if I continue this any further, so perhaps I could get PM'd on it instead?
As Fireburn said,
- "Arceus-Ice should be dredged up from D-Rank for similar reasons. Ice-typing is still garbage defensively but quite potent offensively and the relatively Ice-weak metagame means it can put in some work once you get Steels out of the way. I'd put it in C as it is almost assuredly better than Arceus-Fighting at least."
I agree with that. After Donkey 's success with it, I would like to see more teams that include it, just to break the "same old, same old" feeling the Ubers meta has at the moment.
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"Arceus-Ice is awful" - Donkey
the point of this post is to halt all talk about raising iceceus. just because someone famous used it in spl, and won with it, doesn't mean it's any good. the battle was clearly a joke, as was his team, since his team had already obtained the win.
the point of this post is to halt all talk about raising iceceus. just because someone famous used it in spl, and won with it, doesn't mean it's any good. the battle was clearly a joke, as was his team, since his team had already obtained the win.
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Iceceus can be used, but there is almost no point, as other arceus formes are much better at their job (sd sweeping) as iceceus suffers from sr weakness and being forced to run avalanche as stab. Hence why it should stay as a D-rank threat.
I'm not donkey but its pretty obvious he used it as mon to "counterteam" fireburn because who the fuck thinks about arceus ice when building a team. The mon has like zero defensive presence, and hits some things neutrally on the offensive side, but the best thing it does over something like cm rockeus (which I also think is not that good) is hit latis super effectively which isnt too great. Yeah I dont see why you would really use this, better than deo-d and fightceus still though
e: oh didnt know they had already won nvm
e: oh didnt know they had already won nvm
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I didn't say it's good. I said that it's not complete garbage. It's still outclassed by other Arceus formes by a long shot. It's definitely not consistent in any way, but it's still something different. I hope no one misinterpreted the meaning of my post.
Also I'm not implying Arceus-Ice is good lol (obviously its still bad and should only be used in tours if you are Donkey), I was just suggesting it for a little nudge. At the very least it has a little usefulness in abusing Ice weak teams, unlike its D-rank comrades Deoxys-N and Bugceus.
Replace Mewtwo with Groudon and I made you a team!
Cm Iceceus is a bit stupid tbh, as it doesnt really do anything and gets revenged super easily and cant set up on anything really, whereas 252 hp/252 atk adamant iceceus can clean teams with espeed, albeit worse than ekiller, and with hazard support can ohko a lot of stuff with avalanche,
+2 252+ Atk Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 322-381 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
It also hits steels hard and reliably with earthquake, and so while it is a long way inferior to other sd arc formes it is, imo, barely viable, and better than the cm variant.
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