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Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter PISTOLERO
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What Arceus formes actually outclass Arceus-Ice in its role? As far as I know none of them run a fully offensive CM set. Arceus-Electric is the closest one, but Electric STAB isn't anywhere near as good as Ice STAB, and non-STAB Ice beams are disappointingly weak despite their good coverage.
Arceus-Ice plays a lot like CM+3 attacks Mewtwo. It isn't supposed to tank hits, and much like Kyurem-W (which I support a rise to B+ rank like Fireburn proposed btw) it greatly benefits from the supportive abilities granted by Soul Dew Latias and Primal Groudon, both excellent pokemon in the metagame. Arceus-Ice isn't a bad pokemon per se, it just comes with a big opportunity cost. There aren't many teams that would rather have an Ice-type special sweeper rather than an <insert other type here>-sweeper or defogger, but if you have those covered there is no reason not to consider Iceceus. It definitely is better than Arceus-N (no reason whatsoever to use it) and Arceus-Bug (which is a horrible offensive type, unlike Ice. And defensively it isn't much better) and therefore it shouldn't be D rank.
Arceus-Ice plays a lot like CM+3 attacks Mewtwo. It isn't supposed to tank hits, and much like Kyurem-W (which I support a rise to B+ rank like Fireburn proposed btw) it greatly benefits from the supportive abilities granted by Soul Dew Latias and Primal Groudon, both excellent pokemon in the metagame. Arceus-Ice isn't a bad pokemon per se, it just comes with a big opportunity cost. There aren't many teams that would rather have an Ice-type special sweeper rather than an <insert other type here>-sweeper or defogger, but if you have those covered there is no reason not to consider Iceceus. It definitely is better than Arceus-N (no reason whatsoever to use it) and Arceus-Bug (which is a horrible offensive type, unlike Ice. And defensively it isn't much better) and therefore it shouldn't be D rank.
Dark, Ghost, Rock and Fairy basically only run CM sets. Admitedly, none run 3 attacks, but for CM sets, you want longevity and the ability to remove status anyway.
It wasn't entirely a joke team. I just used Gyarados and Arceus-Ice where I could have used better mons. It was a counterstyle though.
Gyarados, on the other hand, is legit af and is destroys asses of everyone :D
I think Scolipede needs to be moved up because it's an excellent lead for offensive teams in the current metagame.
It provides Toxic Spikes support which is deadly in ORAS, as Toxic is the only status besides Sleep that even works against Primal Groudon and it outspeeds the Lati twins, the best defoggers, while threatening to OHKO them with its Bug STAB. It can beat opposing Darkrai and Deoxys-S leads with a combination of Protect+Speed Boost+Pin Missle and should it find itself in a bad matchup (like Mega Sableye or Diancie) it can still be useful thanks to Baton Pass.
It provides Toxic Spikes support which is deadly in ORAS, as Toxic is the only status besides Sleep that even works against Primal Groudon and it outspeeds the Lati twins, the best defoggers, while threatening to OHKO them with its Bug STAB. It can beat opposing Darkrai and Deoxys-S leads with a combination of Protect+Speed Boost+Pin Missle and should it find itself in a bad matchup (like Mega Sableye or Diancie) it can still be useful thanks to Baton Pass.
IMO it's fine where it is. It's unlikely anyone would be willing to switch their Lati into Scolipede in the first place (hard switch or bringing it in after a KO), since even though Pin Missile needs 4 or 5 hits to KO, it still does a bunch and it doesn't make sense to Defog and switch out in the presence of the hazard user, who can just set up again. Basically I'm saying the situation where Scol KOes the Latis is not really realistic.
Not to mention Scol needs Megahorn to reliably KO, which it doesn't really have room for.
It's the same rank as the other decent TSpikers Greninja and Cloyster, which seems fine to me
To address Arceus-Ice, is it good? No. Is it D-Rank bad? No. Just because it isn't too effective means it deserves to be shoved in the same pile as Arceus-Bug and Deoxys-N. It is better then both of those and better then Arceus-Fight and Arceus-Fly too and probably deserves C-Rank as well. In addition, it is probably better then Arceus-Electric now too because it has a better offensive typing while having a defensive one that's not much worse then electric(Though this isn't really saying that ice is a good defensive typing so much as electric isn't). Because of these disadvantages I will also advocate for Arceus-Electric to move down to C-Rank at best, probably C- actually.
Supporting what Nayrz said, it should also be noted that Arceus-Electric is wrecked by Primal Groudon, who its immune to its STAB and takes non-STAB Ice Beams rather well, while it will definitely not like switching into a STAB + Icicle Plate-boosted Judgment. Arceus-Electric is actually worse than Arceus-Ice as a BoltBeam user, all things considered.
I agree that Arceus-Ice is better than Arceus-Bug and Deoxys-N, but it isn't as good as Flyceus, as Flyceus has a very good offensive typing
(like ice), but has a far better defensive typing and is able to run a cm set, as it's main weaknesses, rock, electric, and ice, are rarely seen in ubers, and often gets a sweep with its stallbreaker variant, and almost no stall team has a stop to it, barring chansey/blissey pp stalling it.
I'm gonna nominate Ho-Oh for S rank. That may be controversial, but I think Ho-Oh is one of the most solid mons in th tier and therefore deserves to rise. It's true that it's extremely weak to SR but with the introduction of ORAS, we got better defoggers and 2 decent magic bounc users so that mitigates it a bit I guess. It also has no true counters (bar Arceus Rock and Refresh Mence I guess) as Sacred Fire's burn rate of 50% allows it to cripple Ho-Oh's usually switch ins. It's also incredibily good against offense (it checks things like Xerneas and Darkrai), and it works well against more defensive buildings as well. Probably people will bring other good points to add at the discussion, but as of now I'd just know what you guys think about that.
I'm not disagreeing with the main point that Flyceus has in general a better defensive typing, but to claim that Rock/Electric/Ice are rare is a bit... wrong, IMO. They are all used as common coverage moves. I'm aware that Thunder usage has dropped like a stone, but Stone Edge and Ice Beam are still pretty damn common.
Chansey should be in B- alongside Blissey. They're pretty much the same. In fact, Chansey is better since she's OU while Blissey's UU, but I'll settle for B- for now.
Nope.
If you actually want an intelligent description, Mega Gengar turns Chansey into a total liability, trapping and eventually defeating it with Taunt+Sludge Wave. Blissey does not have this problem, as it can hold Shed Shell and use moves such as Flamethrower or Ice Beam much more effectively than Chansey can, meaning it can actually fit onto teams better due to not being absolute Mega Gengar chow. Also, Chansey is blacklisted (that's basically what Chansey Rank is), which means if you feel like discussing them, DON'T.
Read the post above me, also just because Blissey is UU and Chansey is OU does not mean Chansey is better than Blissey in the Ubers metagame, pokemon in tiers lower than another poke can be more viable then that poke, an example would be Gurrdurr outclassing Hitmonchan in RU, and to keep it accurate to this thread Blissey outclassing Chansey in Ubers
Ubers is that BL.
ubers was a ban list but became a teir
wouldn't hurt would it?
like having
BL.U
Mega Lucario
mega Mawle
Deoxys N,D
reshiram
Greninja
etc etc
There's not really a point as Ubers isn't decided by usage; it becoming an official tier only means that stupidly broken things like Mega Rayquaza can be banned from it now and it's taken more seriously. It's still OU's banlist first and foremost.
i guess your right
but i just thought it be interesting seeing a teir were to add some extra pokemon to OU(but OU still being its own teir)
and not some of the Crazy stuff like Primal Groudon Mega kang and Mega Sal etc etc
I don't get why s rank is split up tho. Is it just to highlight how amazing p don is?
Primal Groudon is so ridiculously good and splashable it's almost impossible to not use it on every single team. Imagine if Mega Gengar didn't have an opportunity cost and that's how good we're talking here.
Also I know p-groudon and megengar are totally fuckin different guys; was just comparing effectiveness
I'm going to second this. Here is the definition for S-Rank.
Massive offensive capability: Yes. Choice Band makes it's hits hurt anything not called lugia for massive damage, and life orb makes them hit not quite as hard, but with the option of alternating moves so that it's "checks" are badly hurt by earthquake.
Defensive capabilities: Ho-oh can check Xerneas, can spread burns like it's going out of fashion, has immense Spdef, and regains 30% of it's HP whenever it switches out of battle. It is also something that can tank hits from CM arceus forms, and threaten back with sacred fire + burn damage.
Extremely Diverse: There are physically defensive sets, very offensive sets, sub-roost sets, and many more that make it a rather diverse pokemon. It is more diverse than Arceus-N at least, which only has wallceus outside of Ekiller.
Virtually zero opportunity cost: It's the best in its role in ubers, certainly. The amount of opportunity cost in using ho-oh is that it takes up a teamslot.
Barely Require Support: This is the only thing that could hold it back. It being on a team rather forces you to use a defogger or a spinner, or use a magic bouncer. It's stealth rock weakness is the only thing really holding it back though.
agreeing with hooh to s rank.
to keep it short; ho-oh has close to no checks, and the checks it does actually have are extremely shaky. on top of that, the main way to deal with ho-oh (stealth rock) can easily be defogged away, as we have many defog users who get off defogs with ease, such as the lati twins, girao and supportceus. on top of the before-mentioned, hooh, by itself, gives you a win vs most stall/slow teams. therefore, i think it easily qualifies for s rank.
to keep it short; ho-oh has close to no checks, and the checks it does actually have are extremely shaky. on top of that, the main way to deal with ho-oh (stealth rock) can easily be defogged away, as we have many defog users who get off defogs with ease, such as the lati twins, girao and supportceus. on top of the before-mentioned, hooh, by itself, gives you a win vs most stall/slow teams. therefore, i think it easily qualifies for s rank.
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