I disagree with both points, first of which about SPL, while yeah it shouldn't be the only determining factor, we've seen enough games between the players at the very top of the metagame to get an insight into what the current metagame looks like, and the viability rankings should reflect that.SPL is a really small sample size and shouldn't be used as basis for viability ranking.
Also, if you're a good spiker you're automatically an even better SR user, so I don't get why Ferrothorn shouldn't run it.
Can you please think about the awkward generalization you made and get back, because it's really too much to explain how wrong that logic is. It is actually a more interesting matter (what makes a good SR user/spikes user etc) so I'm willing to explain it if you just could phase out that notion...SPL is a really small sample size and shouldn't be used as basis for viability ranking.
Also, if you're a good spiker you're automatically an even better SR user, so I don't get why Ferrothorn shouldn't run it.
ctrl + f "gengar" (0 results)Changes
Mewtwo A+ to A
Mega Mewtwo Y A+ to A
Deoxys-Attack A- to B+
Deoxys-Speed A- to B+
Arceus-Water B to B+
Ferrothorn B to B+
Clefable B to B+
Skarmory B- to B
Heatran C+ to C, on the way to being removed
Terrakion C- to Unranked
Victini C- to Unranked
Bronzong C+ to C, on the way to being removed
Should:
Arceus-Rock move down to B+ ?
Ferrothorn move up to A- ?
Sorry Nayrz, I must have missed itctrl + f "gengar" (0 results)
any reasons for this? it seems the idea of gengar moving down is accepted judging from the support and no argument about my earlier post.
It's a good check to some notable things (Xerneas, Lati, Mega Diancie, non DD Ray) and isn't bait for PDon/Ho-Oh thanks to Earthquake/Rock Slide. I was also running a Scarf Xerneas on that team so I felt Mega Metagross would be useful to help soften up Fire-types for potential late-game cleaning by deer. I do agree that the opportunity cost is large and things like Klefki and Mega Scizor serve as better Xerneas checks, but if you need a Xern check that doesn't give easy switch-ins to Primal Groudon or Ho-Oh it's pretty good. C+ rank fits it fine imoMega Metagross- Honestly it might be pretty ill timed to remove if it's getting the boot from OU. Mega Metagross holds extremely high opportunity cost, is outclassed in many roles (think pursuit and xern checking mostly) and has several very prevalent mons that wall it, some even do regardless of what set you run. I saw Fireburn use it in SPL but I wasn't too impressed with why it was on the team in the first place. Was it because it was less shit vs Ho-oh than other niche steels?
Arceus-Rock wins against P Don over time as Judgment can wear it down. It loses to Kyogre, but Kyogre is far less common this generation with better checks to it around (many Arceus loose to Kyogre anyways). It does stop Mence, in fact Arceus-Rock is just about the best Mega Salamence check around (Lugia auto loses if SR is up, Klefki must be sacked, Arceus-Fairy takes more from STAB Aerialte, ttar just dies, etc.). Don't really see why it should drop, especially considering far less viable stuff like Groudon, Blaziken, Landorus-T is sitting in B+.About Arceus Rock I think it should drop, it completely sucks as a Defog user as it loses to PDon that is the #1 SR setter, it also loses p badly against Kyogre and doesn't even stop Mence that well because +1 EQ does a ton. Guess having an Arceus form being able to run CM without using bad options like Ancient Power to not being murdered by Ho-Oh is cool and stuff but tbh I guess it just got worse in ORAS and therefore deserves to drop to B+ rank
It's too easily checked by PDon, Gira-O and Dialga. On top of that, I don't think I've seen a legitimate team without PDon yet (not that they don't exist), so Arc Electric is seeming pretty bad right now.Whys Arceus-E C rank same with Arceus-I, isnt E better lol
Yar.Bronzong C+ -> Removed
Rejected for analysis.
I don't think opportunity cost alone is a good argument here since Blaziken is still quite good, it's obviously not as good with Latis and Mence around but it has the coverage to deal with checks (Latis are 2HKOed by STABs if they try to switch in, Ho-Oh is beaten if SR is up or you have Stone Edge, Mence is beaten by Stone Edge/HP Ice). It also blows through Mence checks like Skarm/Dialga/Rock-types so its not entirely inferior to the lizard. It can also act as a pseudo-Scarf with Speed Boost to check stuff like Darkrai or Mewtwo which Mence can't do. B+ is a good place for it, it's strong and has decent utility but suffers from notable opportunity cost i.e. the description of B rank.Mega Blaze B+ -> C+
With Mega cost becoming increasingly high especially for offensive Pokemon it is hard to justify using Mega Blaziken in ORAS.
Lack of Ground weakness makes it a far better check to Primal Groudon, EKiller, and Mega Salamence than PDon which merits at least B- imo.Groudon B+ -> C
With Primal Groudon very common and Primal Kyogre common as well the sun support is generally useless. In almost all roles it is outclassed by P Don due to sheer role compression.
Sweep used it quite recently in an SPL game so I would withhold judgment on it for now.Wobbuffet B -> C+
Honestly I haven't even tried to integrate this thing onto a team, but I never see it on the ladder or in tours so that must say something. Does anyone actually use this thing with choice mons even less common?
I'd probably just remove it but C- seems like a fair spot.Heatran C+ -> C-
I've only used it for a single team and it's not very good. It's very hard to justify use at all since it can't even check Xern now that most are running Focus Blast and you can't really afford to run Chople. You can try to run Air Balloon to mess with the likes of Ho-Oh, Mence, and P Don, but again you miss out on valuable Leftovers recovery.
Iceceus is good at C-rank, wouldn't mind moving the rest down to C-Arceus-Ice / Dragon / Fire / Flying / Psychic C -> C-
Electric and Steel are pretty poor but not as bad as these. Even though Electric and Steel are bait to several powerful threats they can still check others.
Again I don't think Mega Lucario is bad enough to be among the likes of Arceus-Bug and Deoxys-N (though I agree its mediocre). It's not directly outclassed by Scizor (not bait for PDon or Ho-Oh) or Metagross (can check Yveltal somewhat and outspeed Lati, also hits harder since Adaptability > Tough Claws) so putting it in D on the basis of it being 100% outclassed wouldn't quite be accurate.Mega Lucario C -> D
It wastes a Mega and in general Scizor or even Metagross is a superior choice. I don't really consider this thing viable, especially after its only niche was eliminated.