ORAS UU Discussion

[Sleepless]

Shouldn't we open another thread to discuss future movepool changes in UU/under 'mons ?
Or at least compile a relevant to the tier list into the first page.

I am for one, excited for Knock Off/Play Rough Absol as it will gain the compatability to carry both on the same set. It feels the coverage will fair better than Superpower/Knock Off and won't be entirely by fairies, especially as it doesn't make you lose half your SD and make you more suspectible to priorities at the same time.
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 199-235 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Drain Punch will be a wonderfull move for Chesnaught as it so long coveted to both gain health and deal damage at the same time.
Noivern will be able to learn Iron Tail, and while it's attack stat is rather pitiful, I feel it may be a cool lure for fairies.
0 Atk Life Orb Noivern Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 130-153 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- 92.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Calloflochie]

Shouldn't we open another thread to discuss future movepool changes in UU/under 'mons ?
Or at least compile a relevant to the tier list into the first page.

I am for one, excited for Knock Off/Play Rough Absol as it will gain the compatability to carry both on the same set. It feels the coverage will fair better than Superpower/Knock Off and won't be entirely by fairies, especially as it doesn't make you lose half your SD and make you more suspectible to priorities at the same time.
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 199-235 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Drain Punch will be a wonderfull move for Chesnaught as it so long coveted to both gain health and deal damage at the same time.
Noivern will be able to learn Iron Tail, and while it's attack stat is rather pitiful, I feel it may be a cool lure for fairies.
0 Atk Life Orb Noivern Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 130-153 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- 92.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

You're welcome to discuss anything new that is happening as a result of ORAS, hence the pastebins in the OP of tutor moves and the likes, in terms of Absol, I have always had a soft spot for SD Iron Tail Mega Absol as it allows it to get through Fairies, which are the main culprits that could otherwise live a hit and retail with a super effective Moonblast. Pokemon like Chesnaught who may be hit super effectively by Play Rough are still going to live a hit and retaliate with Hammer Arm, so the coverage while nice on paper doesn't necessarily translate into battle. Play Rough gives decent neutral coverage but doesn't score the specific KOes that Mega Absol needs to achieve, unlike niche moves like Iron Tail and Superpower. So while yes, Play Rough looks good on paper, I don't think that will necessarily translate into battle, at least not in my opinion.

 

[Jellied Eels]

Absol - Knock Off + Play Rough legal
Barbaracle - Stealth Rock
Cacturne - Spikey Shield lol
Chesnaught - Drain Punch, Thunder Punch, Iron Head/Tail, Superpower, Zen Headbutt, Focus Punch
Diancie - Heal Bell, Earth Power
Doublade - Magnet Rise
Florges - Synthesis, Heal Bell, Giga Drain
Flygon - Boomburst ;;;
Gourgeist - Synthesis, Foul Play
Leavanny - Knock Off + Sticky Web legal
Milotic - Coil
Mismagius - Mystical Fire
Pangoro - Knock Off, Drain Punch, Superpower, Gunk Shot, Focus Punch and all elemental punches
Sharpedo - Poison Fang
Slurpuff - Drain Punch, Heal Bell
Trevenant - Pain Split, Foul Play, Drain Punch, all elemental punches
Tyrantrum - Outrage, Superpower, Iron Tail/Head, Zen Headbutt
Vivillon - Giga Drain
Weavile - Knock Off + Icicle Crash (+ Low Kick) legal
Zygarde - Superpower, Iron Tail, Zen Headbutt, Pain Split

^This is what I can come up with in terms of (semi-)relevant new moves. The biggest buff arguably goes to Slurpuff as coverage on Steel-types makes it very very dangerous imo. Synthesis Florges seems nice but I would personally prefer to keep the ability to wish pass as opposed to like heal bell + toxic, psychic, cm... Pangoro might become a viable threat as well, especially on voltturn teams that appreciate both its wallbreaking capabilities and Parting Shot support.

 

[KM]

CM Florges with synthesis looks pretty promising as a wincon. Absol is intriguing too, but it doesn't seem too game-breaking. Sharpedo's poison fang looks rather shitty given that it already gets ice fang to hit grass types, and it doesn't really have room for a fourth coverage move (and if it did, i'd probably run earthquake anyway). Coil Milotic actually looks interesting as well, and Pangoro looks to be a cool machamp alternative. Zygarde is broken as hell either way so lol, and the trevenant buff is intriguing but not particularly game-breaking-looking. we might actually see specs flygon with boomburst or sunny day solarbeam flygon lol.

 

[Ernesto]

Synthesis Florges allows you to not get pressured by Roar/WW tho. You can always use it over Protect on the standard Cleric set anyway, à la Wish + Softboiled Bliss or Wish + Moonlight Umby (which gets as annoyed as Florges by weather). And like Ninja Kitten said before me, CM Florges with Synthesis can sweep much more reliably than with Wish. Still loses to Cune tho.

Ziggy getting those moves gives us more reasons not to unban it, lol, and the Dark-types will have a new chance to reign with Panda, Play Rough Absol, and even Sneasel if you wanna go there. Panda would be amazing if it was just a bit faster (to make Scarf more viable), but as it stands, it's too easily rk'd. Still tho, CB with STABS + Gunk + Parting Shot and SubPunch look fun—at least, after the tier settles.

EDIT: Oh and Frogadier might prove to be interesting too, with Gunk Shot for Fairies and Bliss (Low Kick deals around the same amount of damage, so unless it's good against something else it won't be much useful).

 

[Hogg]

If Iron Fist boosted Knock Off, I'd be all over Panda. Still, the RU standard CB set basically got an upgrade on every single move.

Coil Milotic is the one that intrigues me most right off the bat, but it's tough to say. Also, with a bunch of new users of Synthesis and a powerful new Sand Force mega, I expect to see an uptick in Hippo use despite it not getting any new toys.

 

[Arch]

Pidgeot I can see ending up in RU. I see it as no better than Crobat. It's way more offensive, but provides way less utility and has a worse typing. They do different things and get the job done in different ways, but as a speedy Defogger, I think Crobat is overall better at its job.

But comparing it to Crobat is already seriously flawed even if they're both offensive defoggers. Defog isn't the primary reason people use Crobat, and it isn't the primary reason people will use Pidgeot. It just happens to be something that helps make their respective sets better in more situations, and Pidgeot doesn't even necessarily need to run defog with options in Roost and U-Turn. At the end of the day, stallbreaker Crobat isn't taking up the same slot Mega Pidgeot wants to have in your team. To question it's viability based on a mon with a near irrelevant role is a little silly.

Plus, Pidgeot has a stellar speed tier and there is a key lack of a special flying spam in UU that it is begging to get hammered by it. Fire / Flying is an amazing offensive move core as well, and currently there's only four mons that won't mind switching in on a heat wave / hurricane combo - Ampharos, Empoleon, Rhyperior, and Diancie. Two of which aren't even very good in the current metagame. Pidgeot's fast U-Turn means it won't even get punished against those mons if it misses a prediction on Hurricane and HW.

Of course, tiers can shift radically against Pidgeot's favor, but I think UU probably fits the super saiyan bird pretty well. It's probably not gonna touch OU with Heatran and TTar running around, but the spacial flying spam is just too good not to utilize in UU, and adds even more variety to a metagame that is already very kind to the mega slot of your team.

 

[Machi]

Has anyone else been playing the ORAS custom games on showdown? Any impressions from the community here? I have to say I already figured MLop would be a real bitch but she is an even bigger one to deal with than I had imagined. Her perfect coverage and complimentary STABS just tear through teams like hot butter, and can easily run the appropriate coverage if need be. She may not be carrying an item but again that Atk/Bulk/Speed is not to be trifled with, and HJK is a real pain in the ass. Use baton pass if you wanna bypass all those pricks that are using Shadow Tag Wobb/Goth.

 

[Hogg]

Fire / Flying is an amazing offensive move core as well, and currently there's only four mons that won't mind switching in on a heat wave / hurricane combo - Ampharos, Empoleon, Rhyperior, and Diancie.

Well, and (Mega) Aerodactyl, who also outspeeds and OHKOs with No Guard Stone Edge... but it's OK, it's not like anyone uses that, right?

 

[edavis707]

So about Pangoro, this seems pretty solid.

Pangoro @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Stone Edge

Let's just let the numbers do the talking for this one.

252+ Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 246-290 (60.5 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 396-466 (101 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Offensive Sylveon)

252+ Atk Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 294-348 (74.6 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Iron Fist Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 212-252 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Iron Fist Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Iron Fist Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 186-222 (52.8 - 63%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


It has Sheer Power.

And Bulk

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Pangoro: 282-333 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah, this does damage, and is extremely bulky at the same times. The Speed EVs allow it to outspeed uninvested base 65s, and Gunk Shot is just so welcome with it's massive Fairy weakness. I predict that Pangoro might jump a tier or two just because of its expanded movepool.

 

[Raymon]

I'm excited for all of the new setup sweepers we may get. Diancie could use Rock Polish, Metagross could use agility, Altaria could use Dragon Dance, Sceptile may find use for Swords Dance, Mega Gallade could use Swords Dance, and Beedrill, of course, will use Swords Dance.

If only Lopunny got Swords Dance lol that would be awesome.

EDIT: Lucario may actually get a break for once!!

It's too frail to use it, it will either run 4 attacks or Fell Stinger, which is a good option considering amazing attack and Adaptability. Just find a moment late game when your opponent sacks his pokemon and get a +2 Boost after a KO. Swords Dance is not good if almost any attack can take you out

 

[edavis707]

It's too frail to use it, it will either run 4 attacks or Fell Stinger, which is a good option considering amazing attack and Adaptability. Just find a moment late game when your opponent sacks his pokemon and get a +2 Boost after a KO. Swords Dance is not good if almost any attack can take you out

Or Protect + 3 attacks. It has major problems trying to mega evolve.

 

[Hogg]

Yeah, Protect/U-turn/Poison Jab is pretty much a must have IMO, with the last slot going to Drill Run or Knock Off or Pursuit most likely. Fell Stinger sounds neat but Beedrill isn't really built to stick around and sweep, so I'd rather go for coverage in that last slot.

 

[dingbat]

Has anyone else been playing the ORAS custom games on showdown? Any impressions from the community here? I have to say I already figured MLop would be a real bitch but she is an even bigger one to deal with than I had imagined. Her perfect coverage and complimentary STABS just tear through teams like hot butter, and can easily run the appropriate coverage if need be. She may not be carrying an item but again that Atk/Bulk/Speed is not to be trifled with, and HJK is a real pain in the ass. Use baton pass if you wanna bypass all those pricks that are using Shadow Tag Wobb/Goth.

I watched a few games between Nas and a couple other council members (and a former one), and man, Mega Metagross is so fucking stupid lol. It can easily stomp through every single damn thing in front of it, because it has so many TC boosted moves to abuse (even Grass Knot!), and if it's running Agility, it's basically impossible to revenge kill because scarfers can't outspeed it and Honchkrow's Sucker Punch can't even guarantee the OHKO against 0/0 MegaGross lol. I wouldn't be surprised if this thing gets quickbanned before the ORAS meta begins.

Personally, I played a couple games with Mega Pidgeot myself, and so far it hasn't been that overwhelming in UU. Although 135 SpA, 121 Speed, and Hurricane Spam is not something you wanna mess with, there are plenty of 'mons that can easily take the Hurricane/Heat Wave/HP whatever combo or just straight up bulk it, while being able to smack it back, which is why I also run U-turn on it.

I've faced a couple Mega Beedrills while testing out Pidgeot, and man is it dangerous af. Luckily, I managed to burn one in one of my two battles against it, but when I sent out Rachi, that thing still managed to pull a solid 27% damage on my Rachi with its U-Turn, which is fucking impressive. IMO, what prevents this thing from being straight up broken is the fact that it has absolute shit physical bulk, meaning Sucker Punch and Extremespeed from 'mons like Luke, Entei, Mega Absol, etc. will slice a huge chunk of Mega Beedrill's HP (I think they OHKO after rocks), and Scarfers base 80+ (Scarf Chandy speedties max speed Jolly Mega Beedrill) can easily RK it unlike M-Metagross, as described in the first paragraph.

I will be testing Mega Shark and Mega Bunny in the future. I also talked to namehtmas about some other shit, and he came up with a claim that Mega Altaria is potentially broken as well.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

What do you guys is most likely going to end up staying UU?

 

[Patrick1088]

What do you guys is most likely going to end up staying UU?

I thi.k most are going to be okay. UU is pretty friendly to all the megas so theyll all find a niche. The top ones that are most likely to rise is Metagross, Sharpedo and Altaria. They are either great wallbreakers (Sharpedo and Gross) or very anti meta (altaria new fairy typing and bulk lets it check Char XY, which is huge). Sharpedo may drop ultimately since its bulk is terrible and you have Techniloom which is a reliable check with Mach Punch and it can be checked my scarf 108s (ie Terrakion) if it only accumulated one speed boost before evolving and is running a speed neutral nature and of course isnt running aqua jet.

I definitely think the lower tiers will be affected more so than OU for these new megas.

 

[mertyville]

So we got confirmed pretty much all Megas and Tutor moves but no new Hidden Abilities?
It would be interesting to have something like Sheer Force Gator.

Speaking of moves, what lower tier non-mega 'mons with new tutor moves are you guys think are going to be attractive for UU?

 

[alexwolf]

Mega Sharpedo won't be good in OU, it lacks power, is still very weak to priority, and there are way better Megas. Metagross, Gallade, Diancie, Sableye, Swampert, and Altaria are the Megas that are looking like the most solid OU Pokemon, with Lopunny and Sceptile also having a lot of potential, but probably won't have enough usage to be OU even though they seem better than other OU Pokemon, kinda like all the underrated Megas that took a lot of months to finally get into OU in XY, such as Mega Manectric.

 

[Machi]

Mega Sharpedo won't be good in OU, it lacks power, is still very weak to priority, and there are way better Megas. Metagross, Gallade, Diancie, Sableye, Swampert, and Altaria are the Megas that are looking like the most solid OU Pokemon, with Lopunny and Sceptile also having a lot of potential, but probably won't have enough usage to be OU even though they seem better than other OU Pokemon, kinda like all the underrated Megas that took a lot of months to finally get into OU in XY, such as Mega Manectric.

Probably when some megas potentially get the boot, that way they become an explored option. Though I agree it is a damn shame people will likely be sitting on MScep and MLop especially, she is one hell of a bitch definitely underrated kinda like Diggersby was at the beginning. Actually, to put into perspective she is as tough to wall as Diggersby, and even harder since she has the freedom to switch moves while retaining speed akin to scarf.

That said which megas do you feel in OU are likely to fall in usage? I'm not too certain about MManetric because he provides such a unique role that is quite difficult to fill, and intimidate is just too useful in OU. Currently looking at the wall breakers like MGarde simply due to not only the rise in offensive prowess by the new Megas but more importantly the speed creep that has occurred, which is quite significant.

Edit: I also think we might be seeing MAero leaving. His speed tier, typing, and movepool allow him to check a plethora of the new megas well.

 

[Hogg]

I suspect Lopunny will see a jump sooner rather than later, since it has an amazing speed tier, the most spammable STABs in the game and an excellent support movepool that can wreak havoc with the few counters that can reliably switch in. But maybe I'm overestimating it.

MegaShark will certainly need to be built around, but it has a lot of checks, and if you force it out after it has evolved, it's way less scary (especially for the Adamant versions). I think it will be very, very dangerous in UU... but then again, so is Lucario. Neither are unstoppable. I kind of hope it sticks around.

I suspect Jolly Mega-Aero will become the norm, to be a more reliable check to many of these new threats. Of course, I like Jolly MAero better anyhow, so I might be biased.

Also, I know people seem most excited for Beedrill on VoltTurn teams, but what do folks think about MDiancie or MSableye? Neither get VoltTurn, but having bulky magic bounce users that actually retain some offensive presence can be huge for keeping hazards off the field. For that matter, will their presence put a damper on Froslass/Sableye spikes stacking teams? Sableye will probably want to keep Prankster on those teams to reliably Taunt fast defoggers, so adding two viable magic bouncers seems like it'll hurt those teams more than it will help.

 

[Arch]

Well, and (Mega) Aerodactyl, who also outspeeds and OHKOs with No Guard Stone Edge... but it's OK, it's not like anyone uses that, right?

I said don't mind switching in on, not resist. M-Dactyl has good bulk but not enough to where he'll freely enjoy taking 31-38% along with a hefty confusion rate.

Anyways, it's not like I said Pidgeot would be a centralizing, metagame defining mon, just that it should get a little more credit than what it's getting right now. There's plenty of offensive, high tier mons that can't even touch M-Dactyl at all, but that's what teambuilding is for.

 

[Hogg]

Thanks to Roost, MAero is still a pretty reliable counter to Pidgeot. I mean, yes, technically Pidgeot can win with confusion hax... but assuming Aero switches in, takes rocks damage, AND gets confused, the best Pidgeot can hope for is a coin flip. If it loses that coin flip, Aero outspeeds and either roosts off the damage or kills it. Either way, Pidgeot probably isn't going to stay in and hope for confusion hax unless in dire circumstances.

Anyhow, as I said above, I think MPidgeot will be decent but not centralizing like Torn-T was, and it sounds like that's your basic position as well. I just wanted to point out that one of the most heavily used 'mons in UU serves as a very hard check to Pidgeot, even if Hurricane's confusion chance prevents it from being an outright counter.

 

[Patrick1088]

Thanks to Roost, MAero is still a pretty reliable counter to Pidgeot. I mean, yes, technically Pidgeot can win with confusion hax... but assuming Aero switches in, takes rocks damage, AND gets confused, the best Pidgeot can hope for is a coin flip. If it loses that coin flip, Aero outspeeds and either roosts off the damage or kills it. Either way, Pidgeot probably isn't going to stay in and hope for confusion hax unless in dire circumstances.

Anyhow, as I said above, I think MPidgeot will be decent but not centralizing like Torn-T was, and it sounds like that's your basic position as well. I just wanted to point out that one of the most heavily used 'mons in UU serves as a very hard check to Pidgeot, even if Hurricane's confusion chance prevents it from being an outright counter.

Torn t was a completely different monster altogether. It could go physical,.special, mixed or even itemless. Pidgeot will be good, but it has real counters like Blissey, Snorlax any real sp def wall. Confusion hax stinks, but it doesnt make it broken.

On a separate note, how do you guys think the UU megas we have now will fare with these new megas? Will Mega Ampharos and Aero still be.top threats? Im curious to see how Mega Absol does with Diancie and Sableye joining the Magic Bounce spotlight. He has a niche of SD BP with knock off, but i think its frailty and lack of HP recovery might let it be overshadowed very quickly. Mega Blastoise i think will still be really top threat since it can severly damage or outright KO most of these new megas and has bulk to tank the hits.

 

[Hogg]

I think MAbsol is sadly outclassed, although I think Amph will still be decent. As the only decent electric type not totally checked or countered by Camerupt and, to a lesser extent, Steelix (Dragon Pulse and Focus Blast 2HKO and OHKO each respectively), I think it'll stay relevant.

As I've mentioned upthread, Aero is a great check and sometimes counter to most of the new threats. It outspeeds and can OHKO Pidgeot, Lop, Sceptile, Beedrill, Glalie... heck, toss on Aqua Tail or Iron Head and call yourself a Camerupt or Diancie counter too while you're at it. The only new megas that really scare it are Metagross with Tough Claws Bullet Punch and Swampert with its bulk and powerful Waterfalls.

 

[Stef0w]

Let's not forget about the new member of the family, mega alakazam.

this thing outspeed every single new mega, beats most of them with psyshock/focus blast/dazzling gleam, and loves adaptability for monster psychic's, no guard for focus blast, and scrappy for nailing sableye with focus blast, or outspeeding mega swampert under rain. sheer force psychic and focus blast is p gay too.