ORAS UU Discussion

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Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Substitute / Knock Off
- Bulk Up

I've been tinkering with this guy in the damage calculator and I think this set will be a lot better than SD in the long run. Mega Gallade actually has enough special bulk to set up in front of weak Scalds (4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 70-84 (20.7 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO) and with single BU boost under its belt there's not much that can actually revenge-kill it :

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. +1 240 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 206-246 (61.1 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. +1 240 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 212-252 (62.9 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 184-217 (54.5 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. +1 240 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 86-102 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO lol
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. +1 240 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 76-91 (22.5 - 27%) -- 40.9% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Air Slash vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 266-314 (78.9 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 330-390 (97.9 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO savior bird to the rescue

I suppose you could run adamant and a different ev spread or something, I just think 110 is too sexy a speed tier to give up. This set is cleanly shuffled by Hippowdon, can't really touch Granbull, and is helpless vs Doublade if you don't run Knock Off.

-----------------------

As a side-note, has anyone come up with a single non-shit mon that can take on Mega Gross because honestly beyond Mega Aggron I'm stumped. Even defensive Rotom-H is cleanly 2HKOed by Zen Headbutt after SR, Doublade is 3HKOed by EQ and without Shadow Claw can only tickle it back, even SpDef Hippo is 2HKOed by GK with the tiniest investment in SpA...
If you are using Sub BU, would it be worth making it Specially Defensive? It seems that all the calcs you are putting are mons that outpace it anyway (if it's max speed jolly), so it could be worth just going all in on bulk, making it a fast bulky sweeper. It gets recovery from Drain Punch, and is only walled by things like Sabelye, but you aren't gonna be doing much to it anyways.
 

aim

pokeaimMD
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Okay i really love trapping cores in UU lol. I can defitely see some sort of combination of a substitute dragon dance mega altaria + duggy. Dugtrio trapping Jirachi and Nidoqueen while Altaria's sick typing + defenses allowing it to set up on pokemon like mienshao, hydreigon bar iron tail (will run calcs later) gligar, mega amph as well as safely setting up when an opposing user has Sableye or Crocune. Dealing with Sableye and Gligar is huge for a pokemon like Mienshao who can now spam HJK. Also serving as nice utility with the core, baiting in Nidoqueen and Gligar. I can definitely see a rise in Mega Aggron who easily shuts this mon down. Cool core i've been thinking about.

Altaria-Mega @ Altarite
Ability: Pixilate
Wasn't really sure on EVs/Nature since if you go max hp +2 cune might not break your sub with scald. I'm sure you could go bulkier though since the point of this mon is to set up on defensive/set up mons themselves and win 1 v 1.
- Return
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Memento

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab/Stone Edge
 
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Altaria-Mega @ Altarite
Ability: Pixilate
Wasn't really sure on EVs/Nature since if you go max hp +2 cune might not break your sub with scald. I'm sure you could go bulkier though since the point of this mon is to set up on defensive/set up mons themselves and win 1 v 1.
- Return
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
I also have been thinking about Mega-Altaria because offensive Fairy + Duggy is pretty powerful, I was actually thinking about using Heal Bell on Altaria over Substitute because it just seems like you can set up a lot more reliably. Substitute gives you a nice buffer against offensive Pokemon (revenge killers) who might want to try to stop your sweep, but Heal Bell lets you get past Suicune no matter how many CMs it's got, prevents Sableye from stopping your sweep in case your Sub is broken etc.

As far as EVs go, the spread I plan to try out first is 48 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 204 Spe with a Jolly Nature. It seems a bit suboptimal to invest this much in Speed but this spread outspeeds any Mega Lopunny at +1 which is pretty important because it can really lay some hurt on you, and also Dugtrio can't trap it. I think that even with minimal bulk, you'll be able to set up on any defensive Pokemon with the combination of Roost + Heal Bell because of it's godly typing and already-incredible bulk.

And finally, in my mind I had Scarf Jirachi where you have Scarf Mienshao, because it checks and beats the main three Pokemon that give Altaria/Duggy the most trouble: Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill, and Mega Alakazam. Like you said, Mega Aggron is quite a problem to this core, however, but obviously there are ways around that.

Here's a replay vs dingbat where Altaria puts in a little bit of work. I had just slapped it on an existing team though and forgot that I already had a Mega Pokemon on it so that was dumb but yeah Mega Altaria looked pretty threatening in this: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-176733922

Here's another friendly game that was just a joke around game where I just brought 6 Megas lol but Altaria literally took the game from 6-1 to 1-0. Again this was more of a stupid fun match so it shouldn't be taken too seriously but yeah: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-174699789
 
About Mega Beedrill, did anyone feel the need to use Protect on Beedrill during the battles before going Mega?

I rarely find the situation where it is needed because the opponent has something already slow or switches out, expecting Protect, which allows you to go for a free SD or Toxic Spikes.
I know, that might not really be an argument, because each player thinks differently and might go for an attack anyways but most at the time, you will bring your killer bee in, when your opponent wants to preserve his 'mon instead of sacking.
 
About Mega Beedrill, did anyone feel the need to use Protect on Beedrill during the battles before going Mega?

I rarely find the situation where it is needed because the opponent has something already slow or switches out, expecting Protect, which allows you to go for a free SD or Toxic Spikes.
I know, that might not really be an argument, because each player thinks differently and might go for an attack anyways but most at the time, you will bring your killer bee in, when your opponent wants to preserve his 'mon instead of sacking.
Yeah, it's so frail that it needs to protect before getting your base 145 speed and then it is able to attack the rest of the team (stupid 15 0 special attack) though it's ability is amazing and has base 150 attack(but it needs the boosts to bee good). have a slow volt switcher/u-turner to bring it in, protect and start destroying :):).
 
Heal Bell won't save you from Sableye. It will just Will-O-Wisp on the next turn. I suppose you could boost up enough to KO through the burn, but that leaves you vulnerable to being revenged on the next turn while you're trying to heal.

EDIT: Did not see it, was on mobile. My bad.

EDIT 2: Goddamn, that's some powerful stuff.
 
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You only need 1 boost or like 20% of prior damage on Sableye to KO through the burn. Also in one of my replays Altaria ended up going through a Sableye too so I'm not sure if you saw that o.o
 
Mega-Metagross is going to be a huge threat to UU-that is if it stays UU for long.

Mega-Metagross has amazing bulk, decent speed to acompony it, and a fantastic attack stat. He has little check (At least in UU) and is a force to be reken with.
He outclasses Pokemon like Max Def Florges. He as the ability to take out Mega-Aero though, he won't be in the best shape after taking an earthquake. Goodra even has trouble walling him though that Gooey could cause issues with Mega-Metagross. Scarf Darmanitan takes him out with ease, but with a Chandulure on your side arm what can he do? When running max speed he out speeds and OH-KOs Hydregion with Ice punch. Mega-Metagross's Pros outweigh his cons, easyly! And I don't see him staying in UU.

Calculations:
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Florges: 470-554 (130.5 - 153.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 174-206 (57.8 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 530-626 (176 - 207.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 378-446 (125.5 - 148.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

These are just a few calculations I did, I'll update this post later with calculations with more UU pokemon, some BL pokemon that may drop back down when ORAS launches, and how Mega-Metagross is compared with the new megas. *Cough* *Cough* Mega-Bro.
 
post about specific 'mons with new moves
I really think we should compile this into an informative, easy to view, list. For example, the UU ORAS tour would benefit this greatly rather than just posting the leaked movepool for the playerbase to search a niddle in the hay stacks.

what I've done so far : (credit to Jellied Eels)
(Previously) BL/OU :
Magic Coat

UU:

Knock Off + Play Rough
Synthesis, Heal Bell, Giga Drain
Drain Punch, Thunder Punch, Iron Head/Tail, Superpower, Zen Headbutt, Focus Punch
Iron Tail
Boomburst
Heal Bell, Earth Power
Pain Split, Foul Play, Drain Punch, all elemental punches


below UU:

Drain Punch, Heal Bell
Knock Off, Drain Punch, Superpower, Gunk Shot, Focus Punch and all elemental punches
Outrage, Superpower, Iron Tail/Head, Zen Headbutt
Synthesis, Foul Play
Poison Fang
Giga Drain
Magnet Rise
Knock Off + Sticky Web
Spikey Shield
Stealth Rock
 
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DiscoDucky

formerly eaglehawk
Oh good. Shit to talk about:
  • Absol-Mega: This significantly buffs Absol-Mega. It becomes a much more effective Sweeper now that there is no Superpower drop. Expect this to jump right up to A+.
  • Florges: Honestly, nothing too important at this point. Synthesis does allow it to be more fully supportive by substituting out Wish+Protect for just one move. Outside of that, Florges hasn't really changed significantly.
  • Chesnaught: Finally it gets a couple of good tools. Drain Punch definitely helps as an alternative STAB to the arguably bad Hammer Arm on defensive sets. Furthermore, Chesnaught becomes a very good abuser of SubPunch due to its natural bulk. Though not necessarily game-breaking, it's definitely a good offensive path for Chesnaught to embark on.
  • Noivern: No.
  • Flygon: Nope. As cool as Boomburst is, it's still bad on something like Flygon.
  • Diancie: Earth Power helps legitimize its offensive sets a bit. Will work very nicely with its Mega-Evo.
  • Trevenant: Foul Play is going to be an interesting option for it, though collectively all of the moves there are kind of irrelevant to Trevenant's role in the metagame (inb4 CB Trevenant).
  • Slurpuff: BellyBurden is going to see a cancerous rise on the lower ladder. Although it does fix up a lot of Slurpuff's coverage issues offensively (namely Steel-types), it's really still a subpar sweeper that relies on a risky boosting move to sweep, though you can technically make a point that Unburden allows it to bypass the HP issue.
  • Pangoro: A couple of interesting moves, but overall still lackluster.
  • Tyrantrum: Outrage will be an interesting addition. It will still be eternally bad as long as it doesn't get its Hidden Ability.
  • Gourgeist: Synthesis is a very welcomed addition to the Pokemon. It definitely helps to have a form of reliable recovery not called Pain Split. Sadly, Ghost is still an abysmal typing in UU with all of those Hydreigons and Knock Offs running around.
  • Sharpedo: I guess. Poison Fang becomes a decent Base 75 Fairy killer that can potentially Toxic them (which helps considering that most Fairies in UU are defensive). It'd probably just be an alternative to Ice Fang at this point.
  • Vivillon: At least it can bypass Rock-types now that hard-walls it, but overall won't improve Vivillon's ranking.
  • Doublade: It's pretty cheesy and does have good uses in certain situations. Sadly, there isn't really a move on most Doublade offensive sets that you can put Magnet Rise on and not compromise the set.
  • Leavanny: If we were analyzing this buff from the lens of this metagame, Leavanny is undoubtedly better since it can beat most Magic Bounce Pokemon in the tier. However, the introduction of new Magic Bouncers such as Sableye-Mega and Diancie-Mega kind of nullifies this buff a lot.
  • Cacturne: Spiky Shield is also situational. I honestly don't even find most Chesaughts are running this.
  • Barbaracle: Stealth Rock doesn't help its case. It's still PU material.
 
For the record I came up with the initial list by looking through similar threads in other metas and doing some snooping of my own, so there's probably some missing stuff, as well as things I've omitted (like SR / Hyper Voice Aurorus). Although tbh once you've listed Spikey Shield Cacturne I think it's fair to say you're scraping the bottom of the barrel lol

Also Eaglehawk I wouldn't be so quick to write off Pangoro, all of those new moves look a lot more scary with Iron Fist backing them up. If only panda had a little more speed :(
 

DiscoDucky

formerly eaglehawk
For the record I came up with the initial list by looking through similar threads in other metas and doing some snooping of my own, so there's probably some missing stuff, as well as things I've omitted (like SR / Hyper Voice Aurorus). Although tbh once you've listed Spikey Shield Cacturne I think it's fair to say you're scraping the bottom of the barrel lol

Also Eaglehawk I wouldn't be so quick to write off Pangoro, all of those new moves look a lot more scary with Iron Fist backing them up. If only panda had a little more speed :(
Holy shit. I forgot about Iron Fist.
Honestly, I just consider Pangoro as Beartic with a better movepool.
 
Oh good. Shit to talk about:
  • Absol-Mega: This significantly buffs Absol-Mega. It becomes a much more effective Sweeper now that there is no Superpower drop. Expect this to jump right up to A+.
  • Florges: Honestly, nothing too important at this point. Synthesis does allow it to be more fully supportive by substituting out Wish+Protect for just one move. Outside of that, Florges hasn't really changed significantly.
  • Chesnaught: Finally it gets a couple of good tools. Drain Punch definitely helps as an alternative STAB to the arguably bad Hammer Arm on defensive sets. Furthermore, Chesnaught becomes a very good abuser of SubPunch due to its natural bulk. Though not necessarily game-breaking, it's definitely a good offensive path for Chesnaught to embark on.
  • Noivern: No.
  • Flygon: Nope. As cool as Boomburst is, it's still bad on something like Flygon.
  • Diancie: Earth Power helps legitimize its offensive sets a bit. Will work very nicely with its Mega-Evo.
  • Trevenant: Foul Play is going to be an interesting option for it, though collectively all of the moves there are kind of irrelevant to Trevenant's role in the metagame (inb4 CB Trevenant).
  • Slurpuff: BellyBurden is going to see a cancerous rise on the lower ladder. Although it does fix up a lot of Slurpuff's coverage issues offensively (namely Steel-types), it's really still a subpar sweeper that relies on a risky boosting move to sweep, though you can technically make a point that Unburden allows it to bypass the HP issue.
  • Pangoro: A couple of interesting moves, but overall still lackluster.
  • Tyrantrum: Outrage will be an interesting addition. It will still be eternally bad as long as it doesn't get its Hidden Ability.
  • Gourgeist: Synthesis is a very welcomed addition to the Pokemon. It definitely helps to have a form of reliable recovery not called Pain Split. Sadly, Ghost is still an abysmal typing in UU with all of those Hydreigons and Knock Offs running around.
  • Sharpedo: I guess. Poison Fang becomes a decent Base 75 Fairy killer that can potentially Toxic them (which helps considering that most Fairies in UU are defensive). It'd probably just be an alternative to Ice Fang at this point.
  • Vivillon: At least it can bypass Rock-types now that hard-walls it, but overall won't improve Vivillon's ranking.
  • Doublade: It's pretty cheesy and does have good uses in certain situations. Sadly, there isn't really a move on most Doublade offensive sets that you can put Magnet Rise on and not compromise the set.
  • Leavanny: If we were analyzing this buff from the lens of this metagame, Leavanny is undoubtedly better since it can beat most Magic Bounce Pokemon in the tier. However, the introduction of new Magic Bouncers such as Sableye-Mega and Diancie-Mega kind of nullifies this buff a lot.
  • Cacturne: Spiky Shield is also situational. I honestly don't even find most Chesaughts are running this.
  • Barbaracle: Stealth Rock doesn't help its case. It's still PU material.
What?! Now you can spam Superpower AND Play Rough with absol?
 
  • Absol-Mega: This significantly buffs Absol-Mega. It becomes a much more effective Sweeper now that there is no Superpower drop. Expect this to jump right up to A+.


I think a lot of people are talking about how good Play Rough is on absol, but I view Absol's coverage as this: you basically have two groups to target when you are trying to choose coverage moves. One, bulky fairies such as Aromatisse and Florges, which you have to run Iron Tail to not lose to (Play Rough, a neutral move to a very bulky mon such as Florges isn't going to be OHKOing, and you get OHKO'd back by moonblast) but if you do run iron tail, you're walled by Cobalion, Machamp, and the likes. I think Mega Absol still won't be A+ since it's much too frail to setup on much of anything that's not already locked into a dark/ghost type move, and in reality stuff like Florges and Mega Blastoise is so common most teams already have a check/counter for it.
 
I think a lot of people are talking about how good Play Rough is on absol, but I view Absol's coverage as this: you basically have two groups to target when you are trying to choose coverage moves. One, bulky fairies such as Aromatisse and Florges, which you have to run Iron Tail to not lose to (Play Rough, a neutral move to a very bulky mon such as Florges isn't going to be OHKOing, and you get OHKO'd back by moonblast) but if you do run iron tail, you're walled by Cobalion, Machamp, and the likes. I think Mega Absol still won't be A+ since it's much too frail to setup on much of anything that's not already locked into a dark/ghost type move, and in reality stuff like Florges and Mega Blastoise is so common most teams already have a check/counter for it.
Well, HYDREGION is S class, and it is walled by all those guys. Don't underestimate Absol....
And about Fighting types, it does have Fire Blast and Play rough.
 

DiscoDucky

formerly eaglehawk
I think a lot of people are talking about how good Play Rough is on absol, but I view Absol's coverage as this: you basically have two groups to target when you are trying to choose coverage moves. One, bulky fairies such as Aromatisse and Florges, which you have to run Iron Tail to not lose to (Play Rough, a neutral move to a very bulky mon such as Florges isn't going to be OHKOing, and you get OHKO'd back by moonblast) but if you do run iron tail, you're walled by Cobalion, Machamp, and the likes. I think Mega Absol still won't be A+ since it's much too frail to setup on much of anything that's not already locked into a dark/ghost type move, and in reality stuff like Florges and Mega Blastoise is so common most teams already have a check/counter for it.
You do realize that conversely every single Bulky fairy has the same counters and can pretty much all be killed by the same one Pokemon.
 
You do realize that conversely every single Bulky fairy has the same counters and can pretty much all be killed by the same one Pokemon.
Clearly, you could run something like Mega Absol + Jirachi. Obviously, though, bulky fairies are not its only counters; what I was trying to get across in that post was that all play rough allowed you to hit was bulky fighting types/other dark types. Arguably its best counters are:

a) bulky fairies, which obviously are all beaten by the same pokemon,

b) bulky megas which don't care about Knock Off/Sucker Punch and aren't hit super hard by Play Rough. Pretty much play rough just hits Mega Ampharos (but i'm writing this off the top of my head late at night so I could be missing something) which is a boost, but it still doesn't allow it to get past the likes of Mega Blastoise, Mega Aggron and even bulky Mega Aerodactyl.

So all in all, I definitely agree with your point that it gets a buff from Play Rough, but I don't think it's enough of a buff to justify it rising to A+. Obviously, this is more a viability ranking sort of post than it is an ORAS speculation post, but talking on level of improvement in the tier it really isn't hitting too much more than it already is with Play Rough. Superpower already hits dark types and fighting types, with the loss of Heracross, really aren't too prevalent anymore. And the ones that are prevalent, such as Mienshao, are all faster than Mienshao (or commonly scarfed, in shao's case) and will kill Absol before it can start firing off coverage moves. I will agree, though, that hitting Chesnaught much harder and having a reliable way to kill Scrafty without undoing your own setup with Superpower is a great option.
 

alexwolf

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LiberalLucario said:
b) bulky megas which don't care about Knock Off/Sucker Punch and aren't hit super hard by Play Rough. Pretty much play rough just hits Mega Ampharos (but i'm writing this off the top of my head late at night so I could be missing something) which is a boost, but it still doesn't allow it to get past the likes of Mega Blastoise, Mega Aggron and even bulky Mega Aerodactyl.
- +2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 249-294 (69.5 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +2 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 120 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 331-391 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So, Mega Blastoise has a pretty good chance to be OHKOed after two SR rounds, and Mega Aero is always OHKOed by a +2 Mega Absol. Outside of Mega Aggron and physically defensive Mega Blastoise i don't see any other MEvo that is able to deal with +2 Mega Absol.
 
You do realize that conversely every single Bulky fairy has the same counters and can pretty much all be killed by the same one Pokemon.
You could but general preference is running iron tail because a) it makes a fantastic lure b) Absol has such horrible bulk making it difficult to set up multiple times so iron tail helps to maximize the staying power.
 
Apart from all the new megas and moves, which deservedly take the spotlight, which current pokemons do you think will be most affected by the new metagame ?

  • For example I think Mega Aggron, which has already gotten better lately, is gonna be extremely good in ORAS UU. Thanks to its great defensive typing and titanic bulk, it can counter the likes of physical Mega Altaria, Mega Beedril, Mega Metagross to an extent (wtf takes on megagross anyway), and even Mega Diancie in a pinch. Mega Aggron has the added bonus of being the most resilient steel-type (apart from Bronzong, which should get pretty good as well tbh) to Duggy shenanigans which will be all over the ladder considering how many of the new megas have issues with steel-types.

+1 252 Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 88-105 (25.5 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 48 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 159-187 (52.4 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (using dudman's spread)

252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 58-70 (16.8 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Mega Aggron: 35-42 (10.1 - 12.2%) -- possible 9HKO (not getting worn down by U-turn is huge bonus considering the other popular bulky steel ie rachi takes a cool 50-60%)

252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 79-94 (22.9 - 27.3%) -- 59.9% chance to 4HKO (assuming agiligross)
0 Atk Mega Aggron Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 136-162 (45.1 - 53.8%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO (can we please get a Mega Gross quickban lol this thing is ridiculous)

252+ SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 196-232 (56.9 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (assuming rock polish diancie)
0 Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 640-756 (265.5 - 313.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO oof


  • Ice Beam is likely to become the new standard move on Mega Blastoise, as more damage on Mega Ampharos is simply not worth being Altaria setup fodder (for reference Ice Beam still ohkoes Haxorus so not losing anything there). It's always had the added bonus of punishing Shaymin switchins too.
  • I think ORAS might contrive to knock Jirachi off its throne a little as well (something that is sorely needed imo). For one the tier is gonna move away from the focus on the base 100 speed tier with so many new fast megas, most of which are equipped to deal with Jirachi. With Mega Pigeon and its powerful Heat Wave + the return of Staraptor Jirachi should find itself hard-pressed to fulfill its role of designated bird check. However what this means about Luke's viability I shudder to think...
 
Hmm... based on my experience in the ORAS OU ladder, I'd probably say the Megas will end up something like this:

Ubers:
Salamence

OU:
Sableye, Slowbro, Altaria, Metagross, Lati@s, Gallade, Diancie

BL:
Beedrill

UU:
Camerupt, Lopunny, Sceptile, Swampert, Pidgeot, Sharpedo, Steelix, Glalie, Audino

I'm fairly positive the last five (Pidgeot, Sharpedo, Steelix, Glalie, Audino) will absolutely not make in in OU. I don't think Swampert will be OU just because rain teams in general aren't popular, and he's not good enough to change that on his own.

The highlighted Pokemon are all questionable. Sceptile and Lopunny are two great Pokemon, but they just don't hit quite hard enough by OU standards. I don't think either of them will be strong enough to be BL, though, as Sceptile is walled completely by Blissey and Florges (except for SD, which is walled by Mega Aggron). If Lopunny drops, it'll be a top tier threat as its ridic speed lets its beat offense and encore will help it break past defensive teams. Camerupt has a solid defensive typing and hits like a fucking nuke. It may be too strong for UU. Beedrill obviously hits like a truck and has drill run to plow through poison and steel types which resist its STABS. I really think u-turn sets are going to be too much for UU, particularly given how much easier it is to get rid of hazards in UU when compared to OU.

I'm really excited to try out Glalie in UU personally.
 
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I agree that Swampert will go OU, but how about you explain why he'll go OU. One of the first rules of posting is backing up a statement with reasoning.

Drizzle will never return to UU, it's too powerful. But rain will rise in popularity in OU thanks to Swampert, having a Swift Swimmer immune to Prankster Thunder Wave (which is AIDS, I hope Klefki doesn't stay long in UU) is immensely powerful. Outside of rain, Swampert is underwhelming. Water/Ground is pretty badass STAB coverage, but he's working off no boosting move and only base 150 Attack. Even if he was stronger or had a good boosting move, he's much slower than the two predominant grass-types in the tier (Shaymin and Roserade, and while they can rarely switch in they win 100% of the time once they're in), and even slower than Sceptile who does have a place in UU as a great cleaner.

tl;dr Mega Swampert has a niche in OU but not UU, and that niche in OU is strong enough to probably move Swampert out of UU.
 
I feel like if mega-swampert does stay uu it'll have basically the same niche normal swampert has in uu right now. It trades off the passive recovery of leftovers for better overall bulk and the ability the threaten switch-ins more with a higher attack. Of course it isn't going to be threatening grass types, swampert never has (unless you run ice punch lol) it's gonna be checking physical attackers and fire types while setting rocks. It's not like the loss of torrent hurts swampert.
 
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