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ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M2
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^Is this your card?
Since the council seems to ignore our claims of MPidge being S rank I have decided to go with a different pokemon for the S rank proposition...
Entei for S Rank
A very popular poke right now that can break through the Florges Maggron/Forretress wall combo. When I team build I constantly think about what I can have to revenge kill or what doesnt mind switching and and taking a burn. Heck even suicune doesnt want to be forced to go for the rest. This pokemon forces you to predict what it is going for. You cant switch out to chandy for fear of stone edge. You cant switch out to Maero for fear of burn. I have been seeing a lot (and I mean a lot) of defensive arcanine and fatmence around 1600s. It obvious that this thing is a top tier threat with its signature move sacred fire and power priority in the form of E-speed. Stall prepares for it and even has trouble because of burn hax and not having a healbeller that can take hits from Entei.
Entei sweeps, breaks stall, and gives you free turns with status. Its amazing and can fit on almost every team with relative ease.
Entei for S Rank
A very popular poke right now that can break through the Florges Maggron/Forretress wall combo. When I team build I constantly think about what I can have to revenge kill or what doesnt mind switching and and taking a burn. Heck even suicune doesnt want to be forced to go for the rest. This pokemon forces you to predict what it is going for. You cant switch out to chandy for fear of stone edge. You cant switch out to Maero for fear of burn. I have been seeing a lot (and I mean a lot) of defensive arcanine and fatmence around 1600s. It obvious that this thing is a top tier threat with its signature move sacred fire and power priority in the form of E-speed. Stall prepares for it and even has trouble because of burn hax and not having a healbeller that can take hits from Entei.
Entei sweeps, breaks stall, and gives you free turns with status. Its amazing and can fit on almost every team with relative ease.
I don't know, I'm pretty happy with Entei where it is now. It's certainly one of the top offensive threats, but the popularity of things like Gatr and Hydreigon keep it from being overwhelming. It's a pain to switch into but easy to revenge, and its major vulnerability to all forms of hazards make it especially pressured by the popular hazard offense I've been seeing a lot lately. A+ feels right to me.
I do agree with Pidgeot to S rank, but there's not much I can say about it that hasn't already been said.
I think Tentacruel should probably drop to A- though. While TSpikes are great in this meta, the bulky water slot really needs to be able to check things like Entei, which Cruel can't do. Offensive teams will prefer something like Nidoqueen or Dragalge for TSpikes, since they can apply offensive pressure on their own, while balanced and stall teams often can't afford to use a bulky water that has trouble with most of the tier's attackers. The popularity of Mamo and Krook also really hurt it. It also has serious 4MSS - without Sludge Bomb it's setup bait for things like Sub Gatr, while without Haze it loses to common sweepers such as Suicune. Then it needs Knock Off or Toxic to pressure common stall opponents. Add in Scald, Rapid Spin and possibly TSpikes, and there just isn't room for it all.
TL;DR version: Tentacruel is still a decent mon, but this meta is not friendly to it. A- seems like a good place for it now.
I do agree with Pidgeot to S rank, but there's not much I can say about it that hasn't already been said.
I think Tentacruel should probably drop to A- though. While TSpikes are great in this meta, the bulky water slot really needs to be able to check things like Entei, which Cruel can't do. Offensive teams will prefer something like Nidoqueen or Dragalge for TSpikes, since they can apply offensive pressure on their own, while balanced and stall teams often can't afford to use a bulky water that has trouble with most of the tier's attackers. The popularity of Mamo and Krook also really hurt it. It also has serious 4MSS - without Sludge Bomb it's setup bait for things like Sub Gatr, while without Haze it loses to common sweepers such as Suicune. Then it needs Knock Off or Toxic to pressure common stall opponents. Add in Scald, Rapid Spin and possibly TSpikes, and there just isn't room for it all.
TL;DR version: Tentacruel is still a decent mon, but this meta is not friendly to it. A- seems like a good place for it now.
Niether Hydregion nor Feraligator will switch into entei safely.
Agree with tentacruel
Since the council seems to ignore our claims of MPidge being S rank I have decided to go with a different pokemon for the S rank proposition...
Entei for S Rank
A very popular poke right now that can break through the Florges Maggron/Forretress wall combo. When I team build I constantly think about what I can have to revenge kill or what doesnt mind switching and and taking a burn. Heck even suicune doesnt want to be forced to go for the rest. This pokemon forces you to predict what it is going for. You cant switch out to chandy for fear of stone edge. You cant switch out to Maero for fear of burn. I have been seeing a lot (and I mean a lot) of defensive arcanine and fatmence around 1600s. It obvious that this thing is a top tier threat with its signature move sacred fire and power priority in the form of E-speed. Stall prepares for it and even has trouble because of burn hax and not having a healbeller that can take hits from Entei.
Entei sweeps, breaks stall, and gives you free turns with status. Its amazing and can fit on almost every team with relative ease.
The problem with Entei is that it can be worn down by weakness to rocks, alongside Sacred Fire will be out of PP especially against constant Suicune switches into it. Yes, it's insanely difficult to switch into, but a speed hitting 299 isn't that fast and can be revenged by a lot of mons. Also the fact that it has one good set limits its versatility, getting locked into a move and can be revenge killed by the likes of Aerodactyl, Krookodile, Salamence, Pidgeot, Mienshao, Lucario (Jolly), Chandelure (If locked into Sacred Fire/Espeed), and a lot more which have over 86 Base Speed. Furthermore, Bulky waters are really common in the UU metagame, Vaporeon, Suicune, Swampert, Slowking as well as Snorlax can come into it and force it out.
The thing about Entei is that it's like Heracross, but it's immune to burn, has a great priority and a great move that almost always burn. On the other hand, weakness to rocks, having a mediocre speed stat and having one viable set makes it stay in A+ rank.
I think that A+ is fine for Entei. I agree it is very good with a very spammable move in Sacred Fire and access to E-Speed, but it very one dimensional and has one set. It does tear apart unprepared teams(and prepared teams usually have 1 counter) but is forced to run Adamant, making it slow and easily revenge killed. No doubt it is a top tier threat(It is A+) but a mon with one set it is easy to play around if you do not give it a free switch.
Edit: Why is tentacruel A rank lol...
Edit #2: Can be discuss how Porygon2 beats all three S rank mons and 5 out of the 7 A+ ranks?
Edit: Why is tentacruel A rank lol...
Edit #2: Can be discuss how Porygon2 beats all three S rank mons and 5 out of the 7 A+ ranks?
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Valid points and I see why A+ is a great rank for it. Thanks for the insight*****!
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*insight
I'm sorry I had to don't kill me please.
-violently murders insitefully-
Christo The Great said:
Um, it loses to SD gatr, loses to Mamo and Krook after the knock off, loses to entei after the likely burn (or at least cant switch in again), obviously loses to cune and mienshao... can people please stop hyping this mon up way beyond its abilities.
1v1s gatr with tbolt yes loses to mamo, twaves entei beats cune with psych up (cool set actually) and lives mienshaos hjk and twaves
Not that I am for Porygon2 moving up (overrated) but it can switch into entei, copy its pressure, and pressure stall out of sacred fires...252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 127-151 (33.9 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Porygon2 needs support. It is beat by most fighting types that are very common in the meta. Putting it on a team kinda forces you to have two physically defensive walls which puts a damper on your team leaving less room for sweep potential. And knock off is a thing in case you guys forgot! The big reason Porygon2 isn't highly ranked is that it can be big set up bait like gligar.
psych up isnt a thing... and if it was then are you not running thunderwave? And if you are running thunderwave then no ice beam? P2 is great but we cant give it moves to beat one pokemon and say its a counter.
Stealth rock + burned and you're likely 2HKO
Seem a little too confident there, eh? Gatr loses.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 216-255 (57.7 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Sheer Force Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 136-162 (43.7 - 52%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Sheer Force Porygon2 Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 204-242 (65.5 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Only way it loses is if Gatr does not get paralyzed for like 5-6 turns straight, and even if the player did get lucky and that happened, you still guarantee 50% if Tri Attack, and 70% if t bolt.
Mamoswine can get 1v1d and LO HP stalled. After Mamo knocks off, EQ still only does about 48-57%(without eviolite) which gets LO stalled.
And Krook is easily 1v1d with ice beam.
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Getting away from all this controversy...and jumping straight into more. Nominating arcanine for B+ rank. Not only is the puppy a good pair with entei (double dogs strategy still working well for me, at least) even on his own, bulky dog totally cock-blocks entei's sacred fire and E-Speed, has two nice abilities, and can either function as a nice defensive tank (will-o-wisp + intimidate snagging a nice assist here) or a nice offensive mon with intimate to bolster his bulk a bit. Simply put, besides having to pack someone to take care of bulky waters (which you should be doing anyways. It's UU, son) Arcanine is a nice addition to almost any team in my opinion.
Fire Buppy for B+
Fire Buppy for B+
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Or he can go for a second SD as you t wave and then you're dead
Ok, I'll indulge in some maths. So, vs SD gatr, it takes a +2 waterfall and twaves. Average damage is 62.9 from waterfall, leaving it at 37.1% assuming no rocks because let's be kind to the collection of polygons. This means pory only has 3 turns for gatr to get fully paralysed while it spams recover before dying, far from the "5-6 turns" you cited. There's a roughly 60% chance of a full para in those turns, so it's not exactly the most reliable check considering it has a large chance to lose even in the best case scenario of zero prior damage and rocks- which is especially dubious as pory is notoriously easy to wear down and has no leftovers to help recover passive damage, well, passively (Btw if there are rocks up it has a >50% chance to lose).
As for the others.... er, why would they stay in? They switch out after the knock off and suddenly your switch-in is gone lol.
Ok, mfw psych up, but even then cune will just pp stall it because rest wastes a bunch of turns without using up pp and tbolt doesn't 3hko. It can twave entei if it really wants to in a pinch but it really fucking hates burns, which basically means it's taking 25% switching into anything with rocks up. And yeah it can stomach a hit from mien at max HP, but all it takes is like a u-turn from dreigon on rocks before pory can't eat a HJK.
It takes neutral from every hazard out there and has no leftovers like the other fatmons to help against being worn down. It takes the full 12% from ever-present scald burns and Tspikes. Yes, it can take a hjk from mienshao at full HP, but on one of the most easily worn down mons in the tier that is a very, very unlikely situation to be in.
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i said "and a little prior damage, about 15-20%". and try with the adamant nature because you won't be outspeeding anybody (lately, lucario & company
run +speed natures just to avoid geting pwned by mamo)
and that is forgiving the fact that if you send them to revenge kill it, it means it ALREADY has killed someone else
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Minor nitpick, but Porygon2 can't actually paralyze Feraligatr because it Traces Sheer Force, negating Thunderbolt's chance to paralyze.
Ah, that does make sense!
Alright don't go crazy everyone but we're bringing back Flygon to C rank. It still has its niche in levitate + defog as well as being able to pivot around while being stronger than Gligar. We can't make it D because apparently that's only for bad mons in UU. A RULE THAT WAS MADE UP JS. we will also be Unranking Medicham and Ferroseed. Hitmonlee will go to C rank. Great Attack stat, solid abilities, good movepool, hjk + reckless, knock off for ghosts, rapid spin for utility, mach punch for priority as well as fake out. Mismagius will go to C rank. Niche as a levitating ghost-type, wall non crunch snorlax, cm can set up on florges, forry, beat suicune with tbolt, fast with 105 speed. can also stall break with taunt / wow / pain split. Braviary will also go C rank. Amazing attack and decent bulk, defiant for defoggers.
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So, I have an idea.
Rotom-H from B to B+
This oven is underestimated, in my opinion. It has different sets to use, so you have to go with the best option possible, which Rotom could possibly check. Trick, Physically Defensive, Specially Defensive, and sometimes I run an all out attacking set for the sake of anything. Mamo also can't kill this thing (without Stone Edge, that is.) And can't forget about Will-O-Wisp. So, yeah, B plus.
Rotom-H from B to B+
This oven is underestimated, in my opinion. It has different sets to use, so you have to go with the best option possible, which Rotom could possibly check. Trick, Physically Defensive, Specially Defensive, and sometimes I run an all out attacking set for the sake of anything. Mamo also can't kill this thing (without Stone Edge, that is.) And can't forget about Will-O-Wisp. So, yeah, B plus.
So, I have an idea.
Rotom-H from B to B+
This oven is underestimated, in my opinion. It has different sets to use, so you have to go with the best option possible, which Rotom could possibly check. Trick, Physically Defensive, Specially Defensive, and sometimes I run an all out attacking set for the sake of anything. Mamo also can't kill this thing (without Stone Edge, that is.) And can't forget about Will-O-Wisp. So, yeah, B plus.
Seconding this big time. It is a lot more versatile than people expect, and is very easy to slap on your teams as a Mamoswine Check who doesn't kill your momentum (Volt Switching on the switch or Will-O-Wisping on defensive sets). The Specs set hits very powerful on the special side and messes up walls with Trick, making it very useful as well. Definitely believe it deserves B+.
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