ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M2

[dingbat]

First vr dump in a while,

I agree with Rotom-H moving up to at least B+ if not A-. It's a solid check to the new UU members as the best Mandibuzz can do is maybe toxic it while Mamoswine also can't do much back unless it's running Stone Edge, which it generally does not have the moveslot to run. It has also become a lot more useful with the rising popularity of 'mons like Doublade, non-sub Cobalion, Whimsicott, Abomasnow etc., all 'mons that this heater is capable of checking. It's also still a prick in general like every other Rotom form out there so there's that.

I would also like to see Reuniclus and Snorlax up for A+ rank consideration, as there's not much that can really stop Lax after a boost or two and even the Fighting types generally don't enjoy switching into Body Slams in fear of paralysis. Ghost-types aren't always in the clear, either, as one of its teammates like Krook can help to eliminate those for Lax or Lax itself can run Crunch to dish out damage to them as well. For Reuniclus, I've begin to see a lot of utility with running Life Orb and some SpA investment on its CM set, as it still maintains a great deal of defensive utility while being able to pack an extra punch unboosted. It's a great feeling when opponents switch in stuff like Hydreigon into my new favorite pink blob only to get completely obliterated by a LO Focus Blast.

I'm not certain that Drapion is still B- rank worthy since I never really see it on ladder and Mamoswine's popularity in this meta atm has (most likely) impacted it negatively.

Finally, can we please for the love of god move tenta down already lol, I think everyone has unanimously decided for the last several weeks that it's not A rank worthy,,,

Other suggestions from the inner circle of nerdz like Dodlord that I don't really have a say on because I don't have enough of a clue on those to be making claims:

Umby to B+
Blissey to B
Bird Jesus to S

 

[DaSpoofy]

First vr dump in a while,

I agree with Rotom-H moving up to at least B+ if not A-. It's a solid check to the new UU members as the best Mandibuzz can do is maybe toxic it while Mamoswine also can't do much back unless it's running Stone Edge, which it generally does not have the moveslot to run. It has also become a lot more useful with the rising popularity of 'mons like Doublade, non-sub Cobalion, Whimsicott, Abomasnow etc., all 'mons that this heater is capable of checking. It's also still a prick in general like every other Rotom form out there so there's that.

I would also like to see Reuniclus and Snorlax up for A+ rank consideration, as there's not much that can really stop Lax after a boost or two and even the Fighting types generally don't enjoy switching into Body Slams in fear of paralysis. Ghost-types aren't always in the clear, either, as one of its teammates like Krook can help to eliminate those for Lax or Lax itself can run Crunch to dish out damage to them as well. For Reuniclus, I've begin to see a lot of utility with running Life Orb and some SpA investment on its CM set, as it still maintains a great deal of defensive utility while being able to pack an extra punch unboosted. It's a great feeling when opponents switch in stuff like Hydreigon into my new favorite pink blob only to get completely obliterated by a LO Focus Blast.

I'm not certain that Drapion is still B- rank worthy since I never really see it on ladder and Mamoswine's popularity in this meta atm has (most likely) impacted it negatively.

Finally, can we please for the love of god move tenta down already lol, I think everyone has unanimously decided for the last several weeks that it's not A rank worthy,,,

Other suggestions from the inner circle of nerdz like Dodlord that I don't really have a say on because I don't have enough of a clue on those to be making claims:

Umby to B+
Blissey to B
Bird Jesus to S

Everything but reuniclus. It cant really set up on Ho and trickroom takes a turn to set up. Its not totally independant like a lot of A plus mons are. Less bulk than snorlax and worse typing for a slow set up mon

 

[Kreme]

I'm going to agree with the nominations of Reuniclus and Snorlax to A+, both of them are extremely powerful bulky setup sweepers. Both of them aren't too dented by status effects, Reuniclus has Magic Guard and Snorlax can Rest it off. Reuniclus can also choose what moves to use on its Calm Mind set, whether it be Shadow Ball to hit Psychic-, and Ghost-types for super effective damage while having a neutral hit against the likes of Steel-types, having Focus Blast to hit Dark- and Steep-types, as well as Snorlax for super effective damage, or even Signal Beam to gain some middle ground and hit Psychic- and Dark-types for super effective damage. Reuniclus can also run a good Trick Room set, as Max SpA Modest LO hits like a truck. Reuniclus isn't dead weight against HO imo, Trick Room variants setup easily against the likes of non-Taunt Mega Aerodactyl etc, whereas Calm Mind variants can scout for Choice-locked Knock Offs by simply using Recover on that turn, and Scarf Hydreigon, which is a common hyper offense member, cannot even check Reuniclus too well for fear of Focus Blast and being unable to beat it after a couple of boosts. Common STAB Knock Off user Krookodile is already under pressure to not switch-into a potential Signal Beam or Focus Blast as is, but is also easily beaten by teammates should the Reuniclus user not have either move, they also need an item to boost Knock Off's damage to beat Reuniclus (this is mostly because I saw a few Earth Plate variants while on ladder the other day so I'm taking it into account).

252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 194-230 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Krookodile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 254-302 (59.9 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Krookodile Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 170-204 (40 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - Reuniclus can Recover on the first Knock Off and proceed from there, or should Reuniclus gain a free recovery turn when Krookodile is not on the field, Krookodile is unable to beat Reuniclus from there on out.

Now for Snorlax, it is such a good setup sweeper, as it can not only setup on quite a few special attackers, but physical ones as well. While RestTalk is the most popular set, it doesn't need Sleep Talk if you have clerical partners. Earthquake and Crunch are completely viable, allowing it to bop stuff like Lucario, Cobalion, Chandelure and Doublade. Snorlax is also a good Fire check. I'm just going to echo a bit of what other people have said before here, but Snorlax's best countermeasures, strong Fighting-types, usually cannot risk switching into a Body Slam, as they take a lot of damage and risk paralysis.

I also agree with Rotom-H moving up to B+, seeing as it is one of the few Pokemon that can resist Flying / Fire, it can switch-into Pidgeot, albeit not reliably as it is easily worn down by Stealth Rock and Hurricane damage. It's also a good check to a lot of threats as pointed out by dingbat, some include non-Substitute Cobalion and Doublade. Rotom-H can also pivot quite easily, as most Ground-types do not appreciate either taking a Specs-boosted Overheat or being burnt by Will-O-Wisp. Rotom-H can also lessen the effectiveness of most walls by using Trick and giving them a Choice-item.

 

[Pipotchi]

Nice to see other people agreeing with Rotom-H.
I want to suggest this mon and I hope ppl read this rather than instantly dismissing it. I think Mega Audino should be C Rank for now.

After messing about with it a lot I think its primary selling point is that it 100% beats every Hydreigon and Mamoswine set (including life orbs and taunt hydreigon) with its physically defensive set, but it also checks or beats several other mons in UU, for instance Krookodile, Mienshao, Mega Ampharos, non-iron tail Salamence, mega Blastoise, and mega Swampert, and Entei (+ a bunch more). Thats all with the same physically defensive wish/protect/dazzlinggleam/filler set, and I believe the combination of Mamo and Hydreigon is not defensively covered by any other pokemon.

Mega Audino has great 103/126/126 bulk in UU and is by far the bulkiest physically defensive fairy here even without leftovers, and comes with a few valuable perks:
-its typing allows it very few weaknesses which allows it to wall unboosted attacks from almost every non steel/poison mon in UU (and even a few of those mons like cobalion, tentacruel and doublade)
-access to knock off allows it to remove specs and bands etc from wallbreakers switching in hoping to break it
-103hp wishes make it also the fairy type with the biggest wishes in UU
-Regenerator allows you to sponge hits early in the match as well as pass wishes early without necessarily being worn down (fully invested 103/86/86 defenses is enough to take u-turns and volt switches)
-Switching typing from Normal to Normal/Fairy gives a completely new set of weaknesses which can be abused
-Other good moves like Healing Wish, Encore, T-wave, Hyper Voice, Psyshock, Calm Mind, Trick Room and Yawn to potentially use
-Sponges knock off for years
-one of the bulkiest Trick Room setters without a dark weakness
-big special movepool and the ability to ohko and 2hko many mons that would like to switch in to force you out or set up (continued at bottom of post)

Mega Audino sets itself apart from other Fairies by being considerably bulkier and much harder to muscle through with coverage, which setting itself apart from Alomomola as Regenerator/Knock Off + Wishpass with its different typing and vastly superior special defense, along with heal bell to remove its own status. And these are B rank mons.

Heres a few calcs:

Calcs

56 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 127-151 (30.9 - 36.8%)

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 142-169 (34.6 - 41.2%)

252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 153-180 (37.3 - 43.9%)

252 Atk Salamence Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 138-164 (33.6 - 40%)

252 Atk Choice Band Krookodile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 139-165 (33.9 - 40.2%)

252 Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 118-140 (28.7 - 34.1%)

All of these mons are a 2hko minimum with dazzling gleam.

252+ Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (50 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 102-120 (24.8 - 29.2%) (which you can then knock off)

252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 126-150 (30.7 - 36.5%) (fire blast returns for 63% max so he cant set up on u)

Mega Audino is perhaps kept from entering the B rank due to its disappointing speed and offenses, while also being worn down relatively fast thanks to no leftovers. It is also taunt bait from strong pokemon like crobat and aerodactyl, and it probably wishes (heh) it had recovery which didnt require 2 moveslots to be reliable. It also doesnt come with too many resistances (and misses a fighting type resistance, which is relevant vs choice band adamant heracross), and although it has dragon immunity it has to mega evolve first. However this shouldn't keep it from C rank, which contains the likes of Mega Camerupt, regular Blastoise, or Jolteon.

Seems inconsistent to rank mega camerupt at C which is a mon which is by all means full of flaws and problems as well as arguably being straight up outclassed on everything but trick room, or mega steelix which is a complete joke in comparison to mega aggron (how many volt switchers actually have a problem with megalix? none of the good ones), but then not rank Mega Audino which checks a unique and actually very relevant set of top tier mons, as well as a vast amount of additional pokemon outside of those? Especially when setup bait is something other C tier mons like Weezing suffer from and shouldnt keep it from being ranked imo. Its not an A tier mon but it should be at least C, because it has quite a few positive qualities.
__________________________________________

edit: I didnt mention it because I wasnt really thinking, but it also has a very impressive special movepool with lots of relevant coverage. While it isnt hitting very hard off 80 spa, you can choose the right coverage for your 4th moveslot to get a super effective hit and 2hko/ohko on a mon which causes your team issues and you want mega audino to always beat for you, for instance:

Calcs

0 SpA Mega Audino Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 292-344 (88.2 - 103.9%)
0 SpA Mega Audino Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 130-154 (42.2 - 50%)
4 SpA Mega Audino Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sceptile: 248-292 (88.2 - 103.9%)
______________
0 SpA Mega Audino Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 400-472 (113.3 - 133.7%)
0 SpA Mega Audino Fire Blast vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 150-178 (47 - 55.7%)
0 SpA Mega Audino Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 176-208 (62.6 - 74%)
______________
0 SpA Mega Audino Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 224-264 (61.2 - 72.1%)
0 SpA Mega Audino Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mamoswine: 242-286 (67.4 - 79.6%)
4 SpA Mega Audino Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 351-414 (84.7 - 100%)
0 SpA Mega Audino Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Cloyster: 248-294 (102.9 - 121.9%)
______________
0 SpA Mega Audino Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Toxicroak: 304-360 (99 - 117.2%)
0 SpA Mega Audino Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 194-230 (71.5 - 84.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Mega Audino Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Nidoking: 154-182 (50.8 - 60%)
______________
0 SpA Mega Audino Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 136-162 (36.6 - 43.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Mega Audino Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 174-206 (49.5 - 58.6%)
0 SpA Mega Audino Surf vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Fletchinder: 180-214 (59 - 70.1%)

bolded are mons that might switch into you or try and set up against you. Fire Blast, Surf, and Psychic/Psyshock are all great coverage moves for beating these mons

mega audino is avoiding 1hkos from all of these mons (even mega beedrills adaptability poison jab is about 75% max) which allows mega audino to blow up a check to your team while they expect they can set up or attack you freely. again, encore is another move for the last slot which allows mega audino to also beat mons like slurpuff or cloyster thinking they can set up.

 

[Schpoonman]

I agree with most everything you said except Cobalion.

+2 252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 252-296 (61.4 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You are not walling SD Cobalion.

 

[Pipotchi]

I agree with most everything you said except Cobalion.

+2 252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 252-296 (61.4 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You are not walling SD Cobalion.

Yea true, I just posted to calc to show that its not a mon which forces audino out necessarily. I wanted to show that Cobalion cant switch into Audino and then wallbreak it, since it doesnt even do half with an unboosted move while Audino can reply with:

0 SpA Mega Audino Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 172-204 (53 - 62.9%)

figured it was worth adding just incase someone brought it up. it cant wall SD cobalion or Iron Head SD doublade but its not like florges which has to switch out on a potential SD

 

[dodmen]

RE: Mega Audino

I disagree with Mega Audino having a rank. Even though it's got great bulk, it's got a vast set of flaws that prevent it from being really usable in UU. This is coming from someone who really tried to make it work when it was being considered for an analysis, but in the end it didn't work at all and even the analysis' author (King UU) agreed that the analysis should be deleted.

Yes, Mega Audino takes 34-41% from Mamoswine, but what about after that? Assuming it switches in, it's now sitting at about 50% after SR and is forced to Wish and most likely Protect, losing all momentum in the process. Due to its reliance on Wish (no other forms of recovery, even Leftovers) it gives a free switch to basically whatever the opponent wants, and Dazzling Gleam is so pitifully weak that it can't even force out a healthy CB Krookodile. There's also the massive issue of having a Fighting-neutrality; one major perk of using defensive Fairy-types is that it gives you a check to stuff like Mienshao and Heracross, and it's pretty disappointing to pile on actual Fighting checks on top of a Mega Audino who loses to Fighting-types. In addition, you have to actually Mega Evolve Audino to get the necessary bulk and Fairy typing that it needs to check the things that it should. And of course, there's the cost that's associated with holding a Mega Stone which doesn't really need explaining.

Compare this to Florges and Aromatisse, neither of whom need a turn to get their bulk and typing, don't take up your Mega Slot, are much less passive with Moonblast, resist Fighting, can hold Leftovers, and Florges has the option to use Synthesis as well. Mega Audino has more bulk, but all of its flaws prevent it from utilizing it efficiently. It can't even run a good Calm Mind set because it loses to every other CM user and can't do anything at all without acquiring multiple boosts first.

One thing that is pretty unexplored, however, is a more offensively oriented Mega Audino. What it does have over other Fairy types is actually a very expansive offensive movepool that includes stuff like Fire Blast (for Steel-types), Surf (Entei, Chandelure, Rotom-H, Mega Aerodactyl), Thunderbolt (Crobat, Empoleon, Tentacruel, Mega Pidgeot and Aerodactyl) and Hyper Voice. Also yes, cool utility stuff like Encore and Healing Wish. If someone can show the effectiveness of an offensive-ish Mega Audino then i could see it being ranked. Maybe start with something like this and try playing around with it (throw other coverage moves, maybe Wish or Encore, on there):

Hide

Audino @ Audinite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 216 SpA / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam

But for now, seeing as currently its being rated solely for its defensive capabilities, there's pretty much 0 reason to use it over other Fairies for reasons I've stated.

Pidgeot needs to be S @_@

 

[Pipotchi]

RE: Mega Audino

Just looking at Mega Audino as a physically defensive fairy I dont really get how it cant be ranked at all. Comparing it to Florges or Aromatisse or w/e as your physical wall, its true that it is forced to wish/protect after taking physical hits but the other fairies dont even survive 2 hits in a row so I dont really see the comparison. Things like Aromatisse and Florges cant switch into CB Krookodile in the first place because they get 2hkod by its other coverage, same goes for the coverage of other dark types like Hydreigon's LO Iron Tail, Honchkrows Brave Bird, same applies for Dragon types with access to Poison Jab or Iron Tail, the other fairies cant switch in in the first place to even cover these mons if they just click their other STAB or coverage. Mega Audino is passive but if CB Krookodile isnt breaking him anyway then is it a big deal that dazzling gleam only 2hkos back? Literally every other fairy type in the tier can be muscled past by dark and dragon type mons with coverage and secondary STAB.
For the leftovers thing, yea its true he doesnt get leftovers recovery and that sucks when he gets statused. But still his bulk outshines the next most physically defensive fairy Aromatisse even if you add on 2 rounds of leftovers for each hit he takes (leftovers for the turn, then protect the next turn). Thats an extra 12% hp every turn.

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 238-282 (58.6 - 69.4%)
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 165-195 (40.2 - 47.5%)

Even if you give aromatisse 2 extra rounds of leftovers for 12% extra life, its taking 57% and Mega Audino still takes a flat 10% less damage each turn against it.

Just seems like Mega Audino has a pretty clear niche as the bulkiest physical defensive fairy in the tier and even without fighting resistance which allows it to blanket check a lot of fighting and dark mons. Sure it doesnt have fighting resistance, but C rank is for mons that need team support I thought? It needs support to mega evolve, and it needs you to provide an additional check for things like heracross, but with that support it can do its job and has a niche without being outclassed. And it has typing synergy with mons like Forretress or Rotoms which can pivot into it for a chance to mega evolve (although i totally agree it can be momentum-killing to bring it in to mega evolve early on). Plus despite having lower offensive stats than the other fairies, it actually has coverage to hit steel and fire types along with most mons that would like to set up on it.

I mean I trust ur guys decision because you have played probably a lot more UU than me and Ill probably mess around with offensive Mega Audino too to see if theres anything good going there, but I still think it outshines some/most of the miserable mons in C rank. (including both the other C rank megas, to avoid the mega opportunity argument)

 

[Uniterflash]

So I'm pretty new to this, but I really think Haxorus should be moved down in the rankings. It seems to be almost completely outclassed by mence (who boasts superior speed, larger move pool,a usuable sp atk set to go moxed, more bulk with intimidate, and a cool fighting resist and ground immunity all in return for a slightly less attack stat) and by tyrantrum (better coverage, 150 bp head smash w/stab and no drawback, and 121 base defense with a quad fire resist which is really nice). Maybe I'm wrong, but tbh I can't see why hax is ranked B+. Please explain if I'm incorrect.

 

[r0ady]

So I'm pretty new to this, but I really think Haxorus should be moved down in the rankings. It seems to be almost completely outclassed by mence (who boasts superior speed, larger move pool,a usuable sp atk set to go moxed, more bulk with intimidate, and a cool fighting resist and ground immunity all in return for a slightly less attack stat) and by tyrantrum (better coverage, 150 bp head smash w/stab and no drawback, and 121 base defense with a quad fire resist which is really nice). Maybe I'm wrong, but tbh I can't see why hax is ranked B+. Please explain if I'm incorrect.

choiced and dd sets are completely outclassed yes, but sd lo is still one of the most effective stall breakers in the tier (no its not fucking outclassed by hera, hera is easier for stall to revenge with the prevalence of crobat)

 

[Uniterflash]

choiced and dd sets are completely outclassed yes, but sd lo is still one of the most effective stall breakers in the tier (no its not fucking outclassed by hera, hera is easier for stall to revenge with the prevalence of crobat)

I've seen SD lum before, but not LO. Whats the set? And I'm not very experienced in UU so I'll take your word about hax's niche but I still think it should b or b-.

 

[Hogg]

I've seen SD lum before, but not LO. Whats the set? And I'm mot very experienced in UU so I'll take you word about hax's niche but I still think it should be b or b-.

SD/Outrage/EQ/Poison Jab, @LO, is the set. At +2, it just eats through stall cores:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 294-346 (85.4 - 100.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Florges: 515-608 (143 - 168.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 390-460 (87.8 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Salamence: 764-899 (194.4 - 228.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 343-406 (90.2 - 106.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (outrage OHKOs, but in case you don't want to lock yourself in)

 

[r0ady]

also the calc responsible for running lo>lum in the first place imo

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 354-419 (92.1 - 109.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Skankovich]

The issue again with SD hax is that it relies completely on outrage to beat fat neutral stuff like Suicune, Cress, Umbreon and Gourgeist which means it gets basically 1 kill at most before it's revenged by the nigh-mandatory fairy that stall will have. SD hera is less the uncontrollable wallbreaker it once was before fatmence was popularised (that said, I carry on seeing fatmence that don't creep hera and dont even run a move that can kill it soooo), but if anything it's less easy to revenge because its wallbreaking moves don't trap it. SD hax is effective in breaking pretty much one Mon guaranteed, but it has a lot of competition for a slot and I don't think it's good enough alone to keep it at B+.

 

[Uniterflash]

SD/Outrage/EQ/Poison Jab, @LO, is the set. At +2, it just eats through stall cores:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 294-346 (85.4 - 100.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Florges: 515-608 (143 - 168.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 390-460 (87.8 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Salamence: 764-899 (194.4 - 228.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 343-406 (90.2 - 106.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (outrage OHKOs, but in case you don't want to lock yourself in)

I see, thank you for the detailed post, I'll def be looking to try that set out it looks interesting. The only problem I see is, what do you set up on without lum ?

 

[r0ady]

The issue again with SD hax is that it relies completely on outrage to beat fat neutral stuff like Suicune, Cress, Umbreon and Gourgeist which means it gets basically 1 kill at most before it's revenged by the nigh-mandatory fairy that stall will have. SD hera is less the uncontrollable wallbreaker it once was before fatmence was popularised (that said, I carry on seeing fatmence that don't creep hera and dont even run a move that can kill it soooo), but if anything it's less easy to revenge because its wallbreaking moves don't trap it. SD hax is effective in breaking pretty much one Mon guaranteed, but it has a lot of competition for a slot and I don't think it's good enough alone to keep it at B+.

i dont think you realize how huge having to sack on stall is, because yes maybe hax isnt 6-0ing but its blown a huge ass hole in the team that another mon can come in and clean up after

 

[Skankovich]

i dont think you realize how huge having to sack on stall is, because yes maybe hax isnt 6-0ing but its blown a huge ass hole in the team that another mon can come in and clean up after

Yeah, good point actually :o
That said, I think guaranteed kill is generous because it struggles to set up even on stall mons. Suicune will phase/scald, blissey can twave, cress will twave, aggron will phase/twave/slam, forretress 2hkos after rocks and orb, umbreon foul plays, gourgeist burns/foul plays, amoonguss sleeps... yeah, it's an effective set but considering that's really its only non-outclassed set that still faces a lot of competition, B+ seems a bit high. It's comparable to nasty plot pory-Z I suppose who also sits in B+, but pory also sets up more easily and has other effective sets like specs, so maybe B+ is the right place? I dunno, it just seems like a mon with a bit too much competition to be where it is.

 

[DaSpoofy]

Wow haxorus breaks florges maggron combo since mold breaker nullifies filter. Thats pretty cool since people depend on the combo to cover all dragon weaknesses for their individual team making a balanced team fairly suseptable to Haxorus.

 

[r0ady]

Yeah, good point actually :o
That said, I think guaranteed kill is generous because it struggles to set up even on stall mons. Suicune will phase/scald, blissey can twave, cress will twave, aggron will phase/twave/slam, forretress 2hkos after rocks and orb, umbreon foul plays, gourgeist burns/foul plays, amoonguss sleeps... yeah, it's an effective set but considering that's really its only non-outclassed set that still faces a lot of competition, B+ seems a bit high. It's comparable to nasty plot pory-Z I suppose who also sits in B+, but pory also sets up more easily and has other effective sets like specs, so maybe B+ is the right place? I dunno, it just seems like a mon with a bit too much competition to be where it is.

i can get behind it being hard to set up but against non roar water types there generally isnt much draw back from clicking sd again if they burn

edit: it also forces switchs on things like blissey meloetta empoleon fat mence tentacruel etc (some of these mons are prolly more for semi stall but whateva)

 

[Uniterflash]

i can get behind it being hard to set up but against non roar water types there generally isnt much draw back from clicking sd again if they burn

edit: it also forces switchs on things like blissey meloetta empoleon fat mence tentacruel etc (some of these mons are prolly more for semi stall but whateva)

+3 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 250-295 (61.8 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Ya still a 2hko while scald does
4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 53-63 (17.8 - 21.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after burn damage

 

[DaSpoofy]

Regular Sharpedo to B+

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Very underrated mon due to its mega hype. One of the best cleaners in the tier. Has a few perks over Mega Sharpedo such as a more powerful waterfall, which is very helpful in cleaning, and (of coarse) does not require a mega stone. The special set is also better than the mega special set as it hits harder. Running a mixed set with ice beam is also great as it hits harder on physical walls that might want to come in on sharpedo. I've been using it as a cleaner for an HO team and its gotten me at 1650 peek with it sweeping late game on 80% of my wins (I usually play in order for it to sweep). The best thing about sharpedo is that people don prepare for it. most teams are weak to the dou stab combo and what is not can be weak to ice beam or poison jab, Here is the set I have been using.
Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Poison Jab
- Protect

I'll point these out so people dont think I dont know they are there!
Weaknesses:
Survivability is super low as life orb eats away and its bulk is only slitley better than mega beedrill. It cant take much priority. Ice shard mamo even takes a chunk out of it limiting its amount of attacks.
At plus one speed it does not outspeed Maero.
It does not KO a lot of walls but thats why it's a cleaner.

 

[Shiba]

Regular Sharpedo to B+ ​

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As strong and fast as regular Sharpedo is, I don't think it should be moved up. It's weakness to priority is huge and since Entei is on a ton of teams nowadays, reg shark is hard to use. A seasoned player can play around shark easily and keep their priority users alive. As much as I love Sharpedo (RIP Celepass Feb 2015), I think it should stay where its at.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 265-312 (94.3 - 111%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 224-264 (79.7 - 93.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 182-214 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Infernape Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 228-270 (81.1 - 96%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Christo]

I am nominating Mega Blastoise to A+

So i have been using Mega Blastoise more than i use to and it is a beyond consistent pokemon. There are 30(not including Mega Blastoise itself) S, A+, and A rank mons combined, and Blastoise beats 26 out of 30 1v1, as well as being able to beat all 3 S ranks 1v1. That is crazy when you think about it. The coverage with Hydro Pump+Aura Sphere+Dark Pulse/Ice Beam threatens the whole tier and the only mons that beat it 1v1 have type advantage. Aside from its bulk and power, it is the most reliable hazard remover in the tier, which is huge in a tier that has a scarce amount of viable hazard removers. I cannot see any glaring flaw that restricts it from going to A+. I also do not see it too much on the ladder, give it a shot guys haha.

Edit: Mega Pidgeot has a 50% chance to beat it 1v1 minus confusion hax so make that 25.5 mons out of 30. Classic Pidgeot.

 

[DaSpoofy]

As strong and fast as regular Sharpedo is, I don't think it should be moved up. It's weakness to priority is huge and since Entei is on a ton of teams nowadays, reg shark is hard to use. A seasoned player can play around shark easily and keep their priority users alive. As much as I love Sharpedo (RIP Celepass Feb 2015), I think it should stay where its at.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 265-312 (94.3 - 111%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 224-264 (79.7 - 93.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 182-214 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Infernape Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sharpedo: 228-270 (81.1 - 96%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

No priority users in the tier can safley switch into sharpedo. Plus the priority makes for an easy prediction. Of coarse you dont have to stay in. I dont believe these calcs take away from Sharpedos multiple advantages

 

[Adaam]

I am nominating Mega Blastoise to A+

So i have been using Mega Blastoise more than i use to and it is a beyond consistent pokemon. There are 30(not including Mega Blastoise itself) S, A+, and A rank mons combined, and Blastoise beats 26 out of 30 1v1, as well as being able to beat all 3 S ranks 1v1. That is crazy when you think about it. The coverage with Hydro Pump+Aura Sphere+Dark Pulse/Ice Beam threatens the whole tier and the only mons that beat it 1v1 have type advantage. Aside from its bulk and power, it is the most reliable hazard remover in the tier, which is huge in a tier that has a scarce amount of viable hazard removers. I cannot see any glaring flaw that restricts it from going to A+. I also do not see it too much on the ladder, give it a shot guys haha.

Edit: Mega Pidgeot has a 50% chance to beat it 1v1 minus confusion hax so make that 25.5 mons out of 30. Classic Pidgeot.

Yesss I've been saying this 5ever. Mega Blastoise is one of the most underrated Megas. Many teams are unprepared for Blastoise and end up sacking a mon just to kill it (I.e Dracoing it with Hydreigon, which then takes an Aura Sphere to the face). I've used a Stoise + Entei offensive core to great success since Entei incinerates anything that can switch into Stoise (Florges, Blissey, Roserade etc)