ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M3 (READ POST #823)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Manipulative

Camila <3
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I for one am completely for Mega Sharpedo staying in A+. Unlike Mega Abomasnow for example, it's a lot more difficult to argue that Mega Sharpedo can't compete with or isn't better than the other A+ megas. It's a late game sweeper that can rip through most offensive teams with just a little prior damage to the few things that actually tank it. I prefer running adamant because that extra permanent damage is worth well more than the very rare scenarios in need for a Jolly nature. In worst case scenarios, you still have a 50% chance of landing the double protect anyways. It crushes everything in S rank.

Cune can't switch into it as it faces a solid 3hko. It also has to rely on a scald burn.
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 150-177 (37.1 - 43.8%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Hydreigon needs barely any prior damage after rocks to be guaranteed being 1hko'd
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 268-316 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Sharpedo also crushes most of the other A+ and A ranks. Though it isn't used as much as it should be, I feel like that's because it is being underrated. It's one of those things that is definitely needed to have in mind when you're team building, especially on offensive teams.

It really doesn't need nearly as much team support as everyone is putting it out to need. It functions just like any other mon: If you could kill the opposing mon, that's great. If not, switch out and kill or weaken it. It's not like you can't use it in its base form either. Most of the matches I use shark in, its regular form contributes to the game as well.
 
Last edited:

IronBullet

Astronomy Domine
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Definitely approve Tangrowth moving up. Regenerator is such a sick ability, and along with its absolutely massive physical bulk it can just take so much abuse. It reliably takes on even the strongest physical attackers like Gatr, Mence, Krook, and Mega Sharpedo. Heck even a +2 Life Orb Adamant Gatr Ice Punch fails to OHKO this beast. An excellent support movepool with Sleep Powder, Knock Off, and Leech Seed + Reg makes it an amazing pivot as well, and 110 Special Attack isn't too shabby either - Leaf Storm hurts while HP Ice / Fire hit pretty hard when super effective. Only downside is its poor special bulk compounded by weaknesses to common special attacking types, but you can even slap on AV to give it enough to tank hits from the likes of Rotom-C and Scarf Hydrei relatively comfortably. Simply on the strength of its physical bulk though, it's definitely A- material for me.

Agree with lawn mower moving up to A. One of the best offensive pivots in the tier, amazing dual STAB, and the Specs set wrecks things. Not much else to say here, I'm quite surprised to find it in A- to begin with when Shaymin is in A, and Rotom-C is definitely at least as good as it is with the attributes that set it apart i.e. pivoting move, Levitate, and delicious second STAB.

Agree with dod on Cress, I really don't think it is A worthy. It's ridiculously bulky and can counter a lot of threats for sure, but it's just so passive. The Psychic / coverage move / Thunder Wave / Moonlight set can cripple a lot of Pokemon on offensive teams, but the problem is it just can't do much back to them. The fact that its defensive typing isn't too great, with many common sweepers having either STAB moves or coverage moves that hurt it, is quite damaging too. Even if you try to remedy its lack of power with CM, it comes up rather short when compared to other bulky boosters like Reuni, Snorlax, and Cune. Running Moonlight leaves Cress completely vulnerable to Toxic, and Moonlight isn't the most reliable recovery option anyway with a measly 8 PP. On the other hand if you use Substitute to avoid status, Cress gets worn down pretty easily. RestTalk is out of the question too with mono-Psychic being a very poor option if you're not Reuniclus. It's pretty much forced to run a coverage move when boosting, which limits it greatly. Its sheer defensive capabilities though mean that I can't see it dropping further than A-.

I actually don't think Slowking should move down. That secondary Water typing with STAB Scald, Regenerator, and much better recovery move in Slack Off give it legit advantages over Cress. The Water typing automatically makes Slowking better defensively in terms of the range of threats it can cover, with Slowking being able to take on the likes of Entei, Cobalion, Suicune, the Nidos, and Infernape much more reliably. Regenerator really can't be understated here; in conjunction with Slowking's bulk it can take plenty of abuse, and with Thunder Wave can stall out and defeat many offensive threats. Its amazing bulk makes it very difficult to OHKO, so you can even paralyze something while taking a huge hit, and simply switch Slowking out to bring it back in at a later time at a decent health thanks to Regenerator. Another key here is Slowking's significantly better offensive capabilities. Scald is notorious as always and backed up by STAB, which makes Slowking's CM sets much more threatening, while Cress is stuck with a weak Moonblast / Ice Beam. And in fact, Slowking actually can take on even the likes of Mega Swampert and Mence pretty reliably:

252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 166-196 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 227-269 (57.7 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 252-297 (64.1 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's not as impressive as Cress, but Regenerator means that Slowking can defeat these Pokemon, switch out, and still have enough health to come in and wall other sweepers, while Cress is usually rendered useless due to the amount of health it has to sacrifice to check such threats. Overall I think we should keep Slowking in A.
 
I'm not a frequent poster, but is Donphan moving up a tier discussable? The not so popular AV set styles on Mega-Pert with Seed Bomb when it sets up Rain Dance, punishes Spinblockers with Knock Off and do I need to explain the power of max attack adamant Earthquake? On the defensive side I know it gets outclassed by things like Krook, but offensively it has helped me out so much with it's decent bulk and amazing coverage. I'm on my phone but I'll back this with calcs the moment I'm home
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
I'm not a frequent poster, but is Donphan moving up a tier discussable? The not so popular AV set styles on Mega-Pert with Seed Bomb when it sets up Rain Dance, punishes Spinblockers with Knock Off and do I need to explain the power of max attack adamant Earthquake? On the defensive side I know it gets outclassed by things like Krook, but offensively it has helped me out so much with it's decent bulk and amazing coverage. I'm on my phone but I'll back this with calcs the moment I'm home
You speak as if AV is somehow needed for Donphan to fire Seed Bombs at MegaPert (what?), plus there's already a Choice Band set of Donphan available. Donphan's biggest competition offensively would be with Mamoswine, which has a stronger Earthquake, a far stronger Ice Shard (relevant against Dragons), and even Freeze-Dry to target the same targets as Seed Bomb, although considering Freeze-Dry is not that favored on Mamoswine that should tell you about the relevance of Seed Bomb Donphan as a whole.

Donphan's biggest issue is that it just doesn't offer as much universal utility as pretty much every other Ground-type in the tier, or indeed even other hazard removers in general. Unlike the other Grounds, Donphan lacks an additional typing, which means it has less resistances / switch-in opportunities as well as lesser offensive presence, so you're missing out already. As a hazard remover, sure it can hit spinblockers, but that isn't particularly special since Tentacruel and Blastoise (Mega or not) can also fend off the spinblockers. In fact, they fare better against the likes of Jellicent and Chandelure since they don't get punished as badly as Donphan for mispredicting the spin; should those spinblockers switch in on Donphan's spin, they can do enough damage to Donphan to ensure it won't be able to survive any more attacks and get the spin off (Chandelure would get KOed in the process, but most team structures that incorporate Chandelure would gladly give up their spinblocker if it means they get to keep their hazards, so it is fairly irrelevant if Donphan can beat Chandy). Hell, Donphan does not beat Jellicent at all even Jelli switches into a full-powered Knock Off as Jellicent would simply Recover or Wisp its way out of KO range. What this means is that Donphan is actually kind of shaky as a hazard remover despite what its movepool would suggest, at least when compared to the other hazard removers in the tier (I didn't even get to the Defoggers, like Gligar and whatnot :/).

Simply put, Donphan doesn't offer nearly enough to make its unique niche very worthwhile.
 
Last edited:

Thisbemyalt

Shiba sucks
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
You speak as if AV is somehow needed for Donphan to fire Seed Bombs at MegaPert (what?), plus there's already a Choice Band set of Donphan available. Donphan's biggest competition offensively would be with Mamoswine, which has a stronger Earthquake, a far stronger Ice Shard (relevant against Dragons), and even Freeze-Dry to target the same targets as Seed Bomb, although considering Freeze-Dry is not that favored on Mamoswine that should tell you about the relevance of Seed Bomb Donphan as a whole.

Donphan's biggest issue is that it just doesn't offer as much universal utility as pretty much every other Ground-type in the tier, or indeed even other hazard removers in general. Unlike the other Grounds, Donphan lacks an additional typing, which means it has less resistances / switch-in opportunities as well as lesser offensive presence, so you're missing out already. As a hazard remover, sure it can hit spinblockers, but that isn't particularly special since Tentacruel and Blastoise (Mega or not) can also fend off the spinblockers. In fact, they fare better against the likes of Jellicent and Chandelure since they don't get punished as badly as Donphan for mispredicting the spin; should those spinblockers switch in on Donphan's spin, they can do enough damage to Donphan to ensure it won't be able to survive any more attacks and get the spin off (Chandelure would get KOed in the process, but most team structures that incorporate Chandelure would gladly give up their spinblocker if it means they get to keep their hazards, so it is fairly irrelevant if Donphan can beat Chandy). Hell, Donphan does not beat Jellicent at all even Jelli switches into a full-powered Knock Off as Jellicent would simply Recover or Wisp its way out of KO range. What this means is that Donphan is actually kind of shaky as a hazard remover despite what its movepool would suggest, at least when compared to the other hazard removers in the tier (I didn't even get to the Defoggers, like Gligar and whatnot :/).

Simply put, Donphan doesn't offer nearly enough to make its unique niche very worthwhile.
In all honesty for pretty much every reason u have posted I could even see donphan dropping to C I mean hell in this current meta I would say espeon has more viability than donphan.
Rotom-cut to A: 100% agree this mon is very quickly becoming one of the best water checks we have while also forming one of the best offensive cores in the tier with Mega Beedrill. Rotom's speed tier allows it to outspeed significant threats such as gatr, hera, mamo, etc. while also very solid natural bulk. The ability to trick all walls that could switch in to rotom is a huge bonus on paper however against a strong opponent I find it more so forces 50/50s but that is also much better than just being easily countered.
Crobat to A-: Agree this mon has been falling out of favor quite a lot since mence has entered uu, mence is a better fighting check and can defog on much more of the tier. Frankly other then bats fighting resistance and defog ability there really is no reason for it to be this high. It has a great speed tier and decent stats overall but since it has practically no coverage moves it is incredibly easy to wall and can even be easily switched into by offense. Also as Dodmen said bat does lose to almost all uu rockers but the more important part is that they can almost all switch in with little to no risk making it so the opponent can easily set hazards back up and if the bat user predicts with a double or an attack then rocks stay up and crobat failed to do its job.
 
(Slowking from A to A-)disagree this thing can take on a big threats like enteiand suicune,and it has the best offensive pressure out of all bulky water types and good recovery and amazing ability twave is cool.Slowking good bulk can give it a chance to live adamants mega drills u turn and hydreigons dark pulse.
(Creselia from A to A-)agree cres can wall but can dish out much damage with its moonblast only2hkoing hydreigon thats not good and toxic can be a pain for cres and moonlight is not the best option, due to low pp and mega snowsgive cres hail can more problems and bullet is right there are better bulky booster cres is still a good wall but its not A rank material anymore.
(Rotom c from A- to A) its a good offensive pivot and with powerful stabs and a useful ability it can be a threat , trick can also cripple defensive threats like florgres and suicune.
(Crobat from A to A-)disagree crobat may have not the best defences but its still a good defogger and taunt slower walls and it can u turn for momemtom and its offensive sets are cool I say keep it A rank.
(Mega Sharpedo from A+ to A\A-) agree I don't use mega pedo all the time but I feel I use it enough to think A+ is too high I explained how I felt about it in a earlier post.
I notice donaphan was brought up I only run defensive sets which was to spin and settup rocks, and die since it lacks recovery and a good special hit can bring it down to 1 hp. It's offensive sets face competition with mamoswine since its only niche over it that I know of is a defensive backbone which is only physically I have not use this thing in a long time but I don't mind being for it moving to c rank like bemyalt espeon and goodra too have more vialbilty these days imo.
 
on the topic of Hoopa, I was trying out a sub nasty plot two attacks set:

Hoopa @ Leftovers
Ability: Magician
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball

theres an obvious weakness to dark but thats what team support is for right!??!?!? you can also run focus blast over something for umbreon, and apparently hoopa gets Tbolt for zapping mandibuzz lol. Sub and lefties is actually surprisingly amazing, and i invested some speed in HP as hoopa doesn't really need to/can outspeed many threats around its speed tier, other than opposing hoopa. the extra hp also helps immensely with setting up subs in front of EVERY SCALD USER IN THE TIER kinda
0 SpA Empoleon Scald vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 76-90 (22.9 - 27.1%)
4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 64-76 (19.3 - 22.9%)
0 SpA Slowking Scald vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 69-82 (20.8 - 24.7%)
0 SpA Milotic Scald vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 69-82 (20.8 - 24.7%)
I forgot what the speed was for but i think it was to speedcreep suicune\.

This thing was pretty good vs stall, as it can set up on quite a few things, however surprise roars and knock offs were annoying ~__~
However against pretty much all other team archetypes, except maybe balanced, hoopa really only tanked a special hit or two and fired off an attack that usually didn't OKO anything. Pairing hoopa with volt-turn and mons that destroy offense like M-bee and M-aero usually works out pretty well.

ALSO IT BLOCKS SPINNERS which is nice and can get off heavy hits

TR life orb drops doodoo all over offense but i haven't tried out that set yet

I'd say B is a nice place for it, underneath Haxorus another good stall breaker
 
Noivern from B to B+ noivern to been forgotten by his weakness to rocks but that does not take away completely the use is a good fast stallbreaker to taunt and roost and also is a good Wallbreaker with Choice Specs and thanks to his incredible speed can outrun most threats.

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Slowking: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 246-290 (57 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(246, 248, 252, 254, 258, 260, 264, 266, 270, 272, 276, 278, 282, 284, 288, 290)

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Flamethrower vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 282-334 (90.3 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
(282, 286, 290, 292, 296, 300, 302, 306, 310, 312, 316, 320, 322, 326, 330, 334)

 
There are other mons out there that do a much more reliable job of Wallbreaking, especially on the Dragon side. We have Dragalge which gets Adaptability, so it's insane dual stabs do much more damage when specs, and Hydreigon which just breaks stuff with even Life Orb Dracos. Noivern is fast, but it isn't exactly the strongest, especially with one of it's strongest stabs having only 70% accuracy.

It's not bad, and can get around subs to switch an item onto them, or to get in and do some damage, but there's not much it really /should/ do when it comes to Wallbreaking. It can break stall with Taunt, but then we have the stallbreaker versions of Hydreigon that do the same job. It's effectively outclassed in every way except speed and infiltrator shenanigns by Hydreigon, so I don't think I can see why it should move up.
 
I've actually been trying out Noivern lately, and while its speed is the only thing going for it compared to other dragons, that may be the only thing it needs. Noivern's speed tier is really nice in this meta as there is not a lot of relevant pokemon in the Pidgeot type of speed tier. Beating Whimsicott and Coballion is just one example of where that speed comes into advantage over a Hydreigion. It's kinda like a middle ground between speed and power. It can fire off moderately sized draco nukes that are stronger than anything crobat could do, but it is much faster than anything Hydreigion could do. Another thing is that its choiced sets can run trick to cripple switchins like Florges, something that Hydreigion could not claim to do. The reason why I'm comparing Noivern so much is because Noivern is not inherently bad, but it just faces a lot of competition from other dragons. Thus it is important to judge whether Noivern's niche over other dragons is valid enough to overcome its flaws. Noivern loses a lot of power at the cost of speed, and I mean a lot. It also loses some bulk compared to other dragons. Is its speed enough to compensate for that?
All this being said, when weighing the pros and cons I think B is a fair rank, but I wouldn't mind it going to B+.

TL:DR: Noivern's speed is valuable, but does not completely overcome its flaws.
 
Noivern seems solid at B or even B- imo. It's outclassed in enough roles that the main reason you run it on a team is for the compression it offers (bad crobat + bad hydriegon in one pokemon slot)

Not every pokemon in a viability tier can get the thuper thpecial waifu + wow stamp of approval.

Don't get me wrong it has a solid niche but it's not nearly B+ material.
 

YABO

King Turt
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Crobat should definitely be dropping to A-. When Crobat was king, the premier Fighting-types were Machamp and Mienshao, both of which are easily dispatched by Brave Bird and you could make great use of your quad resist to fighting. Nowadays, Cobalion is the best fighter and frankly doesn't really care about crobat unless its Sharp Beak. STAB Iron Head does a number and if it's boosted, Crobat is in for a rough time. Furthermore, the tier is chock full of flying resists or just overly fat mons that really don't shake their head at Crobat. For example, Doublade, Porygon2, Suicune, Reuniclus, Bulky Salamence, and Mega Aerodactyl all beat Crobat very reliably. During these exchanges, Crobat loses health and whittles itself to the point where the things it's supposed to check can bust through. Don't get me wrong, I like using Crobat as there is something oddly satisfying about clicking Sharp Beak Brave Bird, but it just isn't A material anymore.
 
After playing around with it a bit on the ladder, I would like to nominate Hoopa to move from B -> A, A- at the lowest. As Hoopa is relatively new and I seem to be the only one currently behind this nomination, I wanted to be as detailed as possible in my nomination so I apologize in advance for the length.

I believe that Hoopa is a very underrated threat in the current metagame, perhaps because it is relatively new and admittedly it's speed can leave something to be desired at times. Nevertheless, Hoopa is no doubt one of the most powerful wallbreakers that UU has ever seen, boasting a massive 150 base special attack and a very respectable movepool to compound that strength. With STAB Shadow Ball and Psyshock alone you can lay a heavy neutral or super effective hit on everything in the tier, bar any dark types, and with access to Focus Blast you can break through even those with relative ease (assuming Hoopa has it's glasses on, of course). Hoopa doesn't even need to run another coverage move, freeing up a slot for Substitute or a boosting move such as Nasty Plot, although it is free to run another coverage move such as Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, or even Hidden Power Ice/Fire if it benefits the team. It's even capable of running Trick Room due to its "meh" speed tier, providing support to its team or allowing it to punch holes all by itself. Speaking of its support moves, Hoopa also gets access to both Taunt and Trick, theoretically allowing it to shut down the few things fat enough to switch in to any unboosted hit or cripple it with a Choice item. Granted, I have no experience using either of those moves on this mon and the only relevant things I can think of that would be crippled by such a set would be Blissey (meh), Mandibuzz, and Umbreon (a bit more of a problem to Hoopa) but the point being that it's there, serves a specific purpose, and due to the immense pressure Hoopa can apply thanks to its ridiculous special attack, isn't too unrealistic to pull off. My point being that Hoopa has the tools necessary to be one of those tricky mons with the ability to pick and choose what can counter it. Of course, it can't beat EVERYTHING in one set (although it can beat a lot in just one), but it has just enough versatility to make your opponent think twice before switching into any old thing on this mon.

Enough about Hoopa's offensive options though, we all know just how much of a problem it can be to switch in on, so I'd like to talk about its defenses a bit, something that doesn't get as much mention. Psychic/Ghost typing is both a blessing and a curse for this mon. While it has 2 very useful immunities in Fighting and Normal, as well as a resistance to Poison, due to its 4x weakness to Ghost and Dark it is easily blown away by even the weakest of Knock Offs and Shadow Balls. Due to the prevalence of threats such as Hydreigon and Chandelure, it would be unwise to build a team without solid Ghost and Dark answers, however with Hoopa it's an outright necessity to have some sort of check for those threats. Unfortunately, even then you have to be very wary of Pursuit users, particularly Honchkrow, whom if given a free switch, not only KOs Hoopa regardless of whether or not you switch but also gains a Moxie boost in the process. It's not all bad for Hoopa though, on the special side it sports nice 80/130 defenses, allowing it to easily chew up non super-effective special hits with ease. Compounding that, you are only weak to the aforementioned Ghost and Dark types. For reference, with no investment Hoopa can avoid a 2HKO from the likes of scarf Hydreigon Draco Meteor. Of course, you'd never switch into Hydreigon with Hoopa, but I picked that calc more to show that it can even take hits from some of the tiers most powerful special attackers, uninvested. On a bulkier set (admittedly I have never seen one of these besides the one on my own team, but they are perfectly viable and in fact the main reason I wanted to make this nomination, I will demonstrate this in a moment), Hoopa can switch into the likes of Life Orb Nidoking and avoid the 2HKO.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 149-177 (40.9 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

With rocks, Nidoking has a mere 13.3% chance to 2HKO, bar the rouge Sucker Punch. In short, unless you're packing Shadow Ball or Dark Pulse, you aren't doing too much to Hoopa on the special side, at least without taking a heavy hit in return, if not getting outright KOd. And of course, as alluded to earlier, Hoopa can prevent spins and HJK/CC sweeps by virtue of its typing, as well as make your opponent think twice before locking into a Normal or Fighting move, for fear of giving Hoopa a free switch.

The way I see it, there are probably 3 main sets we'll be seeing a lot of on Hoopa. Nasty Plot with 3 Attacks or NP+2 Dual STAB+Sub (destroys Stall), offensive Trick Room (destroys Offense), and perhaps the most slept on set of all (seriously, I'm the only one I've seen run this and it runs through both Stall and to a lesser extent Balance), Sub Calm Mind.

Hoopa @ Leftovers
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock/Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

So I'm sure a lot of you might think I'm crazy to use a mon with base 150 special attack and not invest, but hear me out. Uninvested you already hit a massive 336 special attack, enough to put a serious dent in anything bar a dedicated special wall. For reference, with no investment at all you are a mere 13 points shy of a fully invested, Timid Hydreigon. As such, Hoopa is STILL able to OHKO many mons, given a super effective hit. Thus, with no investment Hoopa can still check many of the things it needs to, no setup required. With the given EVs you outspeed everything up to and including neutral max speed base 80s. This includes threats such as Adamant Mamoswine, Gatr before a boost, Cloyster, Offensive Nidoqueen, Slurpuff before unburden, and anything slower than the aforementioned pokes. Because Hoopa has such high Sp.Atk even uninvested, you can seriously cripple or outright KO many of these mons without even setting up, especially with Hazard support. The HP EVs allow you to set up on practically any defensive threat in the tier, bar Umbreon and Mandibuzz for obvious reasons. They also allow a fresh Substitute to tank weak U-Turns from the likes of Scarf Hydreigon, forcing them to stay in and attack you directly. Shadow Ball is a must on this set, dealing solid neutral damage to most of the tier and becoming quite potent after even just a single boost. Likewise, Substitute is mandatory as it allows you to setup freely on any wall that needs status to beat you. Partly from experience and partly from the rankings list, this includes things such as:

Blissey, Tentacruel, Vaporeon, Porygon2, Florges, Cresselia, Empoleon (bar roar), Defensive Roserade, Shuckle, Amoonguss, Alomomola, Aromatisse, Blastoise (non-mega), Gourgeist, Milotic, Suicune (!), Defensive Seismetoad and Weezing.

That's a lot of mons, but Hoopa can also take advantage of moves such as Overheat, Leaf Storm, and Draco Meteor to create even more setup opportunities. At -2, you can safely bring Hoopa in on the likes of Mega Sceptile, Rotom-H/Rotom-C, Noivern, and Hydreigon (be sure it's actually choiced, -2 Dark Pulse still blows you away lol) and get behind a sub. While some of them may deal 25% at -2, absolutely none of them can at -4. Oh, and of course being a ghost is pretty handy too, allowing you to setup on Choiced Normal/Fighting attacks from mons such as Mienshao, Heracross, and PZ. TL;DR, Hoopa sets up on a lot. And that's not even entering the realm of predicted switches. Due to it's natural bulk and the prospect of a powerful super effective hit, Hoopa can threaten out a lot of offensive things incapable of OHKOing it as well, assuming Hoopa is healthy. This creates EVEN MORE opportunity to get behind a sub and wreak havoc. And of course, Sub can also be used to dodge Sucker Punch. This works best if Sub has not yet been revealed, but it's good for creating 50/50s in a do or die situation.

With Psyshock, you have an easier time setting up and sweeping with the added bonus of 100% beating other Calm Mind users 1v1, Suicune and Florges in particular as the others do not appreciate Shadow Ball. With Focus Blast, you have perfect neutral coverage in tandem with Shadow Ball, but perhaps more importantly, you can potentially beat all of Hoopa's offensive checks from behind a substitute, allowing you to setup and sweep later with your checks removed, or opening a hole for a teammate to sweep.

0 SpA Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 270-318 (83 - 97.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Honchkrow: 206-243 (60.4 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Absol: 374-440 (138 - 162.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Houndoom: 270-318 (92.7 - 109.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 330-390 (99.6 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

No surprises here, most offensive Dark types are blown away by uninvested Focus Blast or require just a tiny bit of prior damage in order to secure a KO. At +1, none of them stand a chance and even Umbreon is 2HKOd, leaving Mandibuzz as the only true counter to a Shadow Ball/Focus Blast variant.

In short, this set allows for numerous setup opportunities against many staples of Stall and Balance. Depending on the structure of the team, both Psyshock/Shadow Ball and Focus Blast/Shadow Ball are viable, and thanks to Calm Mind coupled with the HP investment special attackers will quickly become a liability against this thing unless they pack a super effective move. U-Turn shenanigary can be played around thanks to Sub, forcing something to take a huge hit or risk allowing you to setup. While this set shines against Stall, similar to the NP set, it can also hold its own against Balance thanks to substitute and the ability to boost its Sp.Def to incredible heights. This set really only struggles with Hyper Offense, and even then the threats are for the most part frail enough that nothing really wants to take a hit from Hoopa, so even then chances are Hoopa is at the very least going to secure you some solid damage.

So, with all that being said, I think Hoopa definitely deserves a spot in the A Rank, perhaps A-. It can serve multiple roles against multiple playstyles and serve them well. Nasty Plot is terrifying, sending Hoopa to over 800 Sp.Atk after a single boost. Trick Room, while more difficult to build with (no more difficult than most Trick Room users, however) is a nasty surprise for Hyper Offense, as it has little to switch in forcing it to resort to priority. Finally, Sub+Calm Mind is very tough on Stall and Balance alike, and can even serve as a win condition once key threats are removed. Hoopa has many options, and the ability to pick its own counters, something that very few mons can say. It has a very unfortunate 4x weakness to Dark and Ghost, forcing your team to have some answer to common users of these types, and the Hoopa user MUST be wary of Pursuit users, assuming Hoopa is not behind a sub. Still, it's hard to deny that Hoopa is a huge threat, one that I have hopefully demonstrated to be a little more versatile than it may first appear. I feel the Calm Mind set certainly fits the bill of "capable of sweeping significant portions of the metagame", whereas the wallbreaking and Trick Room sets manage to provide invaluable support to many mons in the tier. I love Hoopa so I'd like to say A but with a 4x Pursuit weakness and the inability to beat every playstyle on a single set, I could definitely see an argument for A-. B certainly feels too low to me, however, as Hoopa is in fact a bit more splashable than that, thanks to its potential to be a wallbreaker, sweeper, or support itself along with its teammates with Trick Room.
 

[EDIT] As I felt like this post was quite short and uncomplete, I've decide to expand and complete it]

I'd like to nominate Weezing from C to B-. Its great defensive typing along Levitate and will-o-wisp allows him to check practically any physical attackers apart from Lum Berry Haxorus. Actual metagame is fulfilled with fighting physical attackers like Cobalion, Toxicroak, Mienshao or Heracross this mon becomes a real check to these mons, something that other poison types can do without fearing the Ground coverage, who is becoming a bit more common over rock coverage due to Crobat fall. It also can wall the 2 most important physical sweepers megas atm, Beedrill and Aero. Will-o access avoids any physical mon to come in this mon apart from Guts users, which Weezing could be able to damage enough to be revenge killed:

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 155-183 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Machamp Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 205-242 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Well, that's more damage than expected :S

Also, access to Clear Smog and Haze is helpful to stop CM sweepers like Florges, CM Roar Suicune, or even a psychic type, at least once:

+1 0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 200-236 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Clear Smog will get some dmg with 75 PD meanwhile Haze will settle down Steel types's set ups like Doublade, Cobalion, Durant and Curse M-Aggron, but these mons are willowed instantly then, or being heavily damage by a Fire Blast or Flamethrower

For a spikes stacking team, Weezing is a great pokemon to consider to use. It's the only Toxic Spiker who is inmunne to Ground attacks unlike Qwilfish, Tentacruel, or Dragalge; without being a set up bait for any pokemon like Forretress is.
It has also access to Explosion and Memento so he can deny a hazard removal from a slow poke like Empoleon or Forretress. This is a great value now that Crobat use as Defogger is going down.

Weezing has also access to other support moves like Destiny Bond and Pain Split, which is better than nothing.

Although, 70 Sp Def is quite mediocre for a defensive mon. It still can check stuff like Roserade or non-Psychic Shaymin , but any heavy special attacker like Hydreigon or Hoopa can OHKO it quite easily. Due to levitate is a Poison type not being able to remove Toxic Spikes. Still, it's a very underrated mon who has improve a lot since M-Pidgeot is banned imo
 
Last edited:
I would definitely agree with a rise for Hoopa, but I think solid A is a bit much. Something more like B+/A- would be more appropriate. You die to even the weakest of pursuits, so anything that can avoid being OHKOd by Hoopa is invited an easy trap or revenge kill. Notably, this includes specially defensive M-Aero and pretty much all the dark types in the tier. This thing is basically an upgraded meloetta (which happens to wall hoopa lol).

The biggest issue is that after getting a kill you're just dead to pursuit, giving stuff like Krook or Honch an easy moxie boost. I will say that sucker punch is not actually too huge of an issue, since you can see it coming from a mile away. I'll stick to my opinion that trick-room+3 attacks or TR+NastyPlot with shadowball and FB are the most effective sets as they leave you venerable to only priority as a means of revenge killing, which in UU leaves only aqua jet, bullet punch and shadowsneak, the first two of which fail to KO hoopa from even 50%.

Hoopa @ Leftovers
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock/Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
A tiny note about this set: I think you're better off using sitrus over leftovers. The total amount of healing received from leftovers is rarely going to be more than 1/4 hp unless you're just flat out sweeping stall. Using sitrus can give you 2 turns of setup against most non-supereffective special hits. Additionally it actually gives you the option of using magician, which will usually just get you a leftovers or life orb anyway and lets you beat stall even harder.

Edit: if only this thing got prankster. It could do other stuff like screens and destiny bond, twave and taunt
 
Last edited:
Cloyster to B- Rank surprisingly, this in this rank as it has many qualities which turn it into a pokemon to take into account their ability to shell smash + skill link is very good skill to break substitutes and sweep entire teams after the shell smash accesses to rock blast for fire types and is also a good pokemon to place the spikes and toxic spikes also have access to priority as it is with the ice shard movement, although it is seldom seen with rapid spin can also be very useful for garbage also has pokemon icicle spear that besides going to stab complete equipment can destroy this pokemon sometimes carries with hydro pump for mega Aggron and other physical defensive pokemon .

I have them here some calculations:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 1025-1220 (340.5 - 405.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(205, 211, 211, 213, 218, 218, 221, 221, 226, 229, 229, 234, 237, 237, 242, 244)

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 665-795 (173.1 - 207%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(133, 135, 135, 140, 140, 140, 143, 143, 148, 148, 148, 151, 151, 156, 156, 159)

+2 4 SpA Life Orb Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Mega Aggron: 282-333 (81.9 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(282, 286, 289, 292, 296, 298, 302, 305, 309, 312, 316, 320, 321, 325, 329, 333)

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 410-485 (96.6 - 114.3%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
(82, 83, 83, 86, 86, 87, 87, 90, 90, 91, 91, 94, 94, 95, 95, 97)

and here it can withstand.

+1 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 58-69 (24 - 28.6%) -- 95.8% chance to 4HKO
(58, 58, 60, 60, 60, 61, 61, 63, 63, 64, 64, 66, 66, 67, 67, 69)

252 Atk Life Orb Arcanine Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 182-216 (75.5 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(182, 185, 187, 190, 190, 192, 195, 198, 200, 203, 203, 205, 208, 211, 213, 216)

252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 120-142 (49.7 - 58.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
(120, 121, 123, 124, 126, 127, 129, 130, 132, 133, 135, 136, 138, 139, 141, 142)

252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 183-216 (75.9 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(183, 185, 187, 188, 191, 192, 196, 199, 200, 203, 204, 207, 208, 211, 212, 216)
 
Last edited:
Cloyster to B- Rank surprisingly, this in this rank as it has many qualities which turn it into a pokemon to take into account their ability to shell smash + skill link is very good skill to break substitutes and sweep entire teams after the shell smash accesses to rock blast for fire types and is also a good pokemon to place the spikes and toxic spikes also have access to priority as it is with the ice shard movement, although it is seldom seen with rapid spin can also be very useful for garbage also has pokemon icicle spear that besides going to stab complete equipment can destroy this pokemon sometimes carries with hydro pump for mega Aggron and other physical defensive pokemon .

I have them here some calculations:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 1025-1220 (340.5 - 405.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(205, 211, 211, 213, 218, 218, 221, 221, 226, 229, 229, 234, 237, 237, 242, 244)

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 665-795 (173.1 - 207%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(133, 135, 135, 140, 140, 140, 143, 143, 148, 148, 148, 151, 151, 156, 156, 159)

+2 4 SpA Life Orb Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Mega Aggron: 282-333 (81.9 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(282, 286, 289, 292, 296, 298, 302, 305, 309, 312, 316, 320, 321, 325, 329, 333)

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 410-485 (96.6 - 114.3%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
(82, 83, 83, 86, 86, 87, 87, 90, 90, 91, 91, 94, 94, 95, 95, 97)

and here it can withstand.

+1 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 58-69 (24 - 28.6%) -- 95.8% chance to 4HKO
(58, 58, 60, 60, 60, 61, 61, 63, 63, 64, 64, 66, 66, 67, 67, 69)

252 Atk Life Orb Arcanine Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 182-216 (75.5 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(182, 185, 187, 190, 190, 192, 195, 198, 200, 203, 203, 205, 208, 211, 213, 216)

252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 120-142 (49.7 - 58.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
(120, 121, 123, 124, 126, 127, 129, 130, 132, 133, 135, 136, 138, 139, 141, 142)

252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 183-216 (75.9 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(183, 185, 187, 188, 191, 192, 196, 199, 200, 203, 204, 207, 208, 211, 212, 216)
It's true that Cloyster seems to be a fantastic mon on paper with that monstruosity Defense, but when it comes to use it and try to set up, it's very difficult to find a spot to set up and try to sweep or wallbreak. UU is the Water tier and any bulky water mon is able to tank any hit:

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 164 Def Slowking: 245-290 (62.3 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 245-290 (78.7 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 160-190 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Things get worse as we talk about Steel types

+2 4 SpA Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 244-288 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 114-136 (47.3 - 56.4%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 145-175 (44.7 - 54%) -- approx. 33.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 186-218 (77.1 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

His fragility on the Special Side is a big flow and any average special attacker OHKO's him. Mental Herb is needed to be able to take physical hits, as the Focus Sash set requires too much support for so little reward. His set-up role is completely outclassed by Belly Drum Slurpuff if this is even viable, as Cloyster is way more fragile to priority than Slurpuff. As a spiker Cloyster is just worse like any other spiker on the metagame like Qwilfish, and as a rapid spinner Cloyster is just horrible.

We may want to consider to move Cloyster to D rank, unless anyone want to defend its niche in UU metagame.

PD: I've been playing Clear Smog Weezing some more and I'd say B- it's not enough for it so Weezing could go to B maybe?
 
I think Cloyster at C-Rank is fair for it. It's still very dangerous if you can find a place to set it up, and you can run Sash to take at least one hit and potentially ko a threat. It's not bad, it's not really good either. The main niche it holds is that it can break through subs and is a big issue to more fragile teams. If you calc a cleaner vs a wall or otherwise bulky mon, you're going to get skewed results.
 
Cloyster @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 220 Atk / 36 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Hydro Pump
- Explosion

that's the only Cloyster set that should be used and the only one that guarantees it a niche in UU
the above spread + LO brings a lot of KOs that JuanchoTacorta spread fails to

+2 36 SpA Life Orb Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 320-376 (100.3 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 36 SpA Life Orb Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 367-433 (113.2 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 LO Explosion also kills every fuckin water type in this tier, even Suicune

+2 220 Atk Life Orb Cloyster Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 361-426 (89.3 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Cloyster can actually lure stuff, break some walls, and support its partners, but it's not that ez to slap it in a team, working mostly only in HO builds
it's also like the only real niche and only real way that Cloyster should be used, and you are actually sacrificing yourself most of the time and that's kind of bad
so leave it C rank.
 
I'd like to nominate Omastar to C-Rank.

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't like Cloyster. But this is essentially Cloyster's Special Cousin, who's a little slower and hits like a truck. This thing is a beast on rain teams, especially with a Shell Smash up. It might be a tad frail, but in rain, you'll ohko or 2hko most threats to you. It needs a lot of team support and all, and other stuff here, but yeah.

Omastar to C.

Ask anybody who's played my rain team today, the thing's a monster.
 
I also think the hazard lead set of Omastar (and I guess cloyster too) should be mentioned because it's quite faster than Forretress and has an easier time getting around things with scald/ice beam and has weak armor to boost its speed if it gets hit by a physical attack.

Also though I haven't tried it in gen 6, in BW UU defensive Omastar had a lot of viability as an underrated hazard setter. It can wall a pretty decent chunk of the physical threats in the tier including Salamence (Scarf or DD, can revenge with ib), Beedrill, Doublade, Entei, Sharpedo, Crobat, Snorlax etc. It has the same ability as Suicune to spread scald burns and can still easily tank at least one hit from Mamoswine or Krookodile. It also has small perks like not being able to be critted due to its ability. It could also potentially run knock off to OHKO Hoopa and cripple things like Empoleon, Cress, and Florges.

And of course the most simple Omastar (the rain sweeper) has great utility as a shell smasher with immense power under rain (incomparable to cloyster). Also can run EP to get around Empoleon, or HP electric to hit Emp/Cune/Blastoise. Sash shell smash with weak armor could also be cool. For example, if you get it in on Entei's hit, you can shell smash and outspeed Mienshao, Sharpedo, Rotom-c, and basically any other scarfer in UU.

Just wanted to post on Omastar because it's an interesting nomination and a pokemon with good potential imo. I'll post the changes within the next few days depending on how I'm feeling, however there was a serious lack of discussion this time around :/
 
I would definitely agree with a rise for Hoopa, but I think solid A is a bit much. Something more like B+/A- would be more appropriate. You die to even the weakest of pursuits, so anything that can avoid being OHKOd by Hoopa is invited an easy trap or revenge kill. Notably, this includes specially defensive M-Aero and pretty much all the dark types in the tier. This thing is basically an upgraded meloetta (which happens to wall hoopa lol).

The biggest issue is that after getting a kill you're just dead to pursuit, giving stuff like Krook or Honch an easy moxie boost. I will say that sucker punch is not actually too huge of an issue, since you can see it coming from a mile away. I'll stick to my opinion that trick-room+3 attacks or TR+NastyPlot with shadowball and FB are the most effective sets as they leave you venerable to only priority as a means of revenge killing, which in UU leaves only aqua jet, bullet punch and shadowsneak, the first two of which fail to KO hoopa from even 50%.



A tiny note about this set: I think you're better off using sitrus over leftovers. The total amount of healing received from leftovers is rarely going to be more than 1/4 hp unless you're just flat out sweeping stall. Using sitrus can give you 2 turns of setup against most non-supereffective special hits. Additionally it actually gives you the option of using magician, which will usually just get you a leftovers or life orb anyway and lets you beat stall even harder.

Edit: if only this thing got prankster. It could do other stuff like screens and destiny bond, twave and taunt

I think A- would be more appropriate, in hindsight. While I think Substitute is a fantastic tool for mitigating Hoopa's weakness to Pursuit, it's certainly not perfect. Infiltrator Crobat is still pretty common, rendering Substitute a liability in some matches as Brave Bird from an offensive variant is guaranteed to KO you after Substitute damage. Then of course, there's the opportunity cost of one of your moveslots, meaning less super-effective coverage or no setup. Still, the more I think about it the more I feel like Sub might just be a good option for Hoopa in general, particularly for teams that don't need the Trick Room support. I agree it probably would be a waste on a Trick Room set, but it produces a similar effect in a 1v1 situation vs a Pursuit user. I'm not sure what spread a Sp.Def Aero would run, but assuming it's heavily invested in HP it would indeed be a problem even for LO Hoopa under TR, requiring at least 2 Stealth Rock switch-ins to be KOd by a Psyshock, and outspeeding without Trick Room support. Krook, however gets blown away by Focus Blast leaving it powerless while under Trick Room or behind a Sub. Honchkrow can't take a Focus Blast from Trick Room Hoopa after rocks either, and is outsped by offensive variants if Adamant (as in my experience, they often are), leaving it a 50-50 in both scenarios. And of course, Substitute variants can potentially eliminate that completely, at the cost of 25% of your health, with the added benefit of blocking status from many of the things you're likely to set up on. Oh, and of course all that assuming Focus Miss doesn't do its thing. Ultimately though, I do think the fact that you HAVE to adjust your mindset when playing against Pursuit users with Hoopa might not be appropriate for a solid A mon on premise alone. A- though, certainly, as it brings many great strengths to multiple styles of play to compensate for its few, albeit glaring weaknesses.

Also on that set, while it's very similar to Meloetta statistically, it's actually much closer in functionality to Chandelure, the other Sub + CM user seen from time to time. It sets up on all of the same mons (off the top of my head), with the addition of many bulky waters thanks to its lack of a weakness to them. In addition, it has much better natural bulk on the special side, and comparable bulk on the physical side thanks to its higher base HP. The only things Chandelure really has over it in this role is Fire STAB (admittedly nice but Psychic isn't bad thanks to STAB Psyshock allowing you to beat other CM users like Suicune), Flash Fire (very nice), and 10 base speed (not as game-changing in practice as it might sound). Considering the role its used for, Leftovers are a must in my book, letting you heal up turn for turn, preventing after turn effects such as hail from whittling you, and just giving you more overall survivability. It's particularly nice when there are rocks on your side of the field, but Hoopa still needs to come in multiple times throughout a match for whatever reason. The nice thing about Hoopa's stat distribution is that it can still deal relevant amounts of damage even without setup, so depending on the opposing team Hoopa may be on the field many times during the same match to check opposing threats or just once to set up. Sitrus Berry sounds pretty heat though, I have to admit.

Oh, and not that it takes away too much from the set, but after I made that last post I realized that Shadow Ball + Focus Blast is ironically completely walled by Chesnaught, lol.
 

IronBullet

Astronomy Domine
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

Nominating Druddigon for C. I discussed this with Fuga a few days ago and we both agree that it should be ranked on the basis of its useful attributes that sets it apart from other Dragons i.e. unique access to Stealth Rock and Sheer Force, nice defensive stats unlike Haxorus, and a pure Dragon typing. While I've seen it used a couple of times and always thought of it as rather underrated, what really raised my interest in it was dice's RMT that took full advantage of its traits. I've been using it as a bulky SR setter and it's proved to be pretty decent and very fun to use. Its nice bulk and typing gives it opportunities to switch into common FWG cores and set up rocks + hit things very hard with Sheer Force boosted attacks. It makes a decent check to several top threats such as Entei, Cobalion, Rotom-C, and Doublade, and switches in quite comfortably against most weak walls. dice used Roseli Berry on it which is a fantastic idea to lure in Fairies to open up a sweep for the likes of Mega Absol, DD Mence etc. but I personally prefer Leftovers. It also has access to Sucker Punch to patch up its low Speed and cool support moves in Glare, which I really like, and Dragon Tail.

On the downside, offensive sets using CB or LO are largely outclassed by Haxorus and Mence and a more defensive Rough Skin set is outclassed by FatMence and rather ineffective due to the ubiquity of Fairies and Steels. Having no secondary typing also means that it lacks the resistances and immunities that Mence and Hydrei have. Overall though I think that on the strength of its unique attributes i.e. access to SR, Sheer Force to boost its coverage moves, and nice resistances thanks to its typing, it deserves to be ranked.
 

LRXC

ADV 1v1 Pioneer
is a Community Contributor
I think Machamp should move up a rank, He is very viable with no-guard dynamic punch. He runs great on Bulky Offensive teams as he is best run with max HP and max attack. His physical movepool is also very diverse, and he has access to priority and utility moves such as bullet punch, knock off, and heck even wide guard when in doubles!
 
I think Machamp should move up a rank, He is very viable with no-guard dynamic punch. He runs great on Bulky Offensive teams as he is best run with max HP and max attack. His physical movepool is also very diverse, and he has access to priority and utility moves such as bullet punch, knock off, and heck even wide guard when in doubles!
While No Guard D-Punch may be an amazing move, No Guard does bring a huge drawback; attacks targeted at Machamp are guaranteed to hit, which even goes for crippling status moves like Will-O-Wisp. On top of that, Machamp has low Speed, so it is quite easy to cripple. Guts sets can lure out status, but are mostly done better by Heracross, who possesses a secondary STAB.

Doubles is irrelevant here, as this thread pertains to the UU Singles metagame.

On a last note, welcome to Smogon!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top