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OU Analyses Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Jukain
- Start date
I'm on a Mega Hera roll today.
Anyways, you think we can mention a bulkier spread on the Mega Hera analysis seeing as how that's like practically what everyone is running on it these days? I don't know if we should outright change the spread permanately because it's only recently been popping up and it's still adapting to meta trends, but it's just so much better than the Jolly max max set I think a good mention is the least we should do.
The spread is currently 248 HP / 76 Atk / 84 Def / 100 Spe Adamant nature although there might be a better spread out there, this is the most consistent because it outspeeds Rotom-W and can still live Latios' Psyshock. The moves are all the same. Just stress how this spread has the advantage of setting up on a lot more things and bulkier teams have less of a reliable answer to it.
Anyways, you think we can mention a bulkier spread on the Mega Hera analysis seeing as how that's like practically what everyone is running on it these days? I don't know if we should outright change the spread permanately because it's only recently been popping up and it's still adapting to meta trends, but it's just so much better than the Jolly max max set I think a good mention is the least we should do.
The spread is currently 248 HP / 76 Atk / 84 Def / 100 Spe Adamant nature although there might be a better spread out there, this is the most consistent because it outspeeds Rotom-W and can still live Latios' Psyshock. The moves are all the same. Just stress how this spread has the advantage of setting up on a lot more things and bulkier teams have less of a reliable answer to it.
"236 Speed EVs and a Mild nature allow Kyurem-B to outspeed fully invested, positive-natured base 80 Speed Pokemon and Adamant Mega Garchomp, while a Naive nature can be used to outspeed Pokemon such as Jolly Landorus-T and Heracross prior to Mega Evolution."
I don't know if this was intentional or not, but doesn't it make more sense to recommend Hasty nature over Naive if you're recommending Mild as the main nature for the set?
And also, is recommending 236 Spe EV's necessary still as opposed to max speed for the standard set? I get the idea of pumping EV's into Attack, but unless there's a specific OHKO/2HKO that Kyu-B gets with 20 EV's over 4 EV's, I think getting outsped by Jolly Gyara with the recommended spread probably isn't the best idea(sure, it's not the biggest threat to Kyu-B, but it's still a nice speed tier to hit), and I think we should change the current spread to 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe. I would like to know if you guys felt the same way and let me know if there are specific OHKO's/2HKO's that it misses out on that I may have overlooked.
I don't know if this was intentional or not, but doesn't it make more sense to recommend Hasty nature over Naive if you're recommending Mild as the main nature for the set?
And also, is recommending 236 Spe EV's necessary still as opposed to max speed for the standard set? I get the idea of pumping EV's into Attack, but unless there's a specific OHKO/2HKO that Kyu-B gets with 20 EV's over 4 EV's, I think getting outsped by Jolly Gyara with the recommended spread probably isn't the best idea(sure, it's not the biggest threat to Kyu-B, but it's still a nice speed tier to hit), and I think we should change the current spread to 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe. I would like to know if you guys felt the same way and let me know if there are specific OHKO's/2HKO's that it misses out on that I may have overlooked.
Choice Band is just the standard AoA set with another item, I don't think a whole new set it needed. Giving it a small mention in the Set Details or OO doesn't seem like a bad idea because it can break through standard counters like SpD Skarmory, Clefable, and Mega Sableye, while also having a stronger Pursuit (Latios for example dies to Pursuit after LO + Rocks if Weavile is Banded even if it stays in).
Actually p2 went through the entire analysis a month ago and reworked the whole thing through CMS, so it's fairly up to date as it stands.
eh maybe but sash lead isn't very good imo... i think lo stealth rock/psychic/fblast/dgleam is generally better since a.) powerful, b.) unexpected fsr, c.) beats both magic bouncers (diancie actually doesn't ohko and you can usually take a moonblast) and psychic does a mean chunk of damage. msab is always 2hkoed by dgleam and knock off isn't a ohko either. plus, it has merits in smacking other common leads like landorus-t and such. and you don't have to sack it early match. i generally find it to be more... durable, in a sense, even though it's such a frail pokemon aha. i can provide replays as well.
that set autoloses to scarftar antileads (and many various other ones) and you dont even get rocks :x
also re: normal kyurem; i brought it up once but we eventually decided it's too niche and that its choice specs set is better which is basically outclassed by specs kyu-b. i advocated for it before but i don't think that it's a great stallbreaker (and very overhyped) compared to stuff like manaphy and torn-t
also re: normal kyurem; i brought it up once but we eventually decided it's too niche and that its choice specs set is better which is basically outclassed by specs kyu-b. i advocated for it before but i don't think that it's a great stallbreaker (and very overhyped) compared to stuff like manaphy and torn-t
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The "lead LO" Azelf set is just 3 attacks / Rocks, it's not as much as a suicide lead as its standard set. Normally I run Psychic, Dazzling Gleam, Fire Blast, Stealth Rock with obvious room for other moves depending on team needs. The OO mention right now has it set up like you would be using Nasty Plot which you obviously wouldn't because as mentioned if that's the case just use CM Alakazam. It doesn't need its own set, there's too many scarftars to make the set viable and even the sole niche of suicide lead in Azelf is not that good to begin with anyways. It's team specific but I would make the mention in OO a bit more clear because it should emphasize that the SR / 3 attacks Life Orb is an option.
I think the Mega Pidgeot analysis needs a revamp. In my opinion, the Work Up Stallbreaker set should be the only one listed, or at the very least the first one. The All out Attacker set is basically outclassed by Tornadus-T - with a Life Orb it hits harder, it has a much better movepool and thanks to Regenerator it doesn't need to run Roost. It can also run Superpower to hurt Chansey, Tyranitar and specially defensive Heatran. True M-Pidgeot's Hurricanes won't miss, but other than that Tornadus-T is just better in that role. The Work Up Mono attacer set M-Pidgeot can do is something Tornadus-T can't, and it's honestly much more effective than the all out attacker set in this meta. With Hoopa-U gone a good stallbreakers' never a bad thing, and IMO M-Pidgeot's one of the best.
I'd be more than happy to do the revamp, I have used M Pidgeot a lot.
I'd be more than happy to do the revamp, I have used M Pidgeot a lot.
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Gonna post AM's thoughts from OU Sets Ranking Thread on Mega Pidge here because they're relevant:
"Refresh kind of sucks because you still have to somehow break Chansey who runs Toxic / Thunder Wave while contending with the fact one of two trappers found on the two popular variants of stall Weavile or Tyranitar will still take you out. Work Up is fine but it's not breaking stall anymore to where Refresh is a good use of its abilities. A stall team not packing those two mentioned trappers or Dugtrio, granted Dugtrio isn't a trapper that can beat M-Pidgeot, I consider mostly inefficient if not outright bad. Stick with two attacks, roost, work up and hurt bulkier balances instead."
So as AM said, the stallbreaker set has a major problem fighting against stall because even if it does manage to break through Chansey, you are then forced into 50/50s with the trappers that have become very common on Stall. Therefore, I wouldn't call it the top set by any means. Looking at Mega Pidgeot's analysis, I'd say the only thing that needs to be/could be done is slashing Work Up with Roost / Hyper Beam or U-Turn on the first set.
I'm not sure if something as trivial as this is worth posting, but I guess I'll go ahead and post it anyway.
This is from Mega Charizard X's Bulky Will-O-Wisp set:
I checked on the damage calculator, and found that a spread of 248 HP / 200 SpD / 60 Spe with a Jolly nature leaves Charizard with the same amount of Speed and with 2 more Special Defense points. Would that be worthy of fixing?
This is from Mega Charizard X's Bulky Will-O-Wisp set:
Set Details said:
I checked on the damage calculator, and found that a spread of 248 HP / 200 SpD / 60 Spe with a Jolly nature leaves Charizard with the same amount of Speed and with 2 more Special Defense points. Would that be worthy of fixing?
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In terms of damage it'd make difference because decrease a bit the possibilities of being HKO by +2 Focus Blast LO Thundy to 25% to 18%, as well of being 2hko by zard Y's Modest Focus to 3.9% to 2.7%, so as you can see with those examples it is usefull that extra couple of points but dont think is worth change it.
Huh?
If the spread in the analysis is blatantly inefficient (as this one is), then it's absolutely worth changing. The current spread is bad because it costs you 2 SpD points with no change elsewhere. Six Trails' spread is better should replace it.
Just because the suggested ev spread decrease a bit the rolls doesnt mean that the the actual one is innefficient as u quote, in fact those 2 spd evs doesnt put you in a positition that u avoid 100% the rolls, that's why despite of making a difference doesnt make it worth to change.
Is the Support set listed for M-Gardevoir even necessary anymore? I find that there's pretty much no reason to run that set at all anymore, unless someone can give me more insight into it.
And also, does anyone feel that Zapdos' analysis needs a bit of a revamp? The 68 SpA EV's are really unnecessary at this point, and I'm not really sure that the Specially Defensive set really needs to be its own set considering its no more than a change in EV's which can just be listed in the Set Details section tbh. And also SubToxic should be given its own set due to how nice it is for slower builds, but I'm not sure how the rest of you guys feel about it.
And also, does anyone feel that Zapdos' analysis needs a bit of a revamp? The 68 SpA EV's are really unnecessary at this point, and I'm not really sure that the Specially Defensive set really needs to be its own set considering its no more than a change in EV's which can just be listed in the Set Details section tbh. And also SubToxic should be given its own set due to how nice it is for slower builds, but I'm not sure how the rest of you guys feel about it.
Mega medicham needs a revamp I believe. It hasn't been touched on for a while, and the metagame has changed quite a bit. The analyses says it faces competition with mega gallade, and it clearly does not since the priorities mega medicham packs plus the inmediate power makes up for the worse speed, making mega medicham far superior than mega gallade. Its main set also says that zen is mandatory, and now it clearly isn't, since i've yet to see one with zen nowadays lol, that should probably go to oo and slash bullet punch and thunder punch. something like this:
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: High Jump Kick
move 2: Fake Out
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Bullet Punch / Thunder Punch
item: Medichamite
ability: Pure Power
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
And perhaps an analyses for jellicent? It's been poping up here and there as an answer to said medicham (lacking tpunch) , volcanion (kinda), keldeo, etc and as a deterrent to water type attacks in general, colbur berry makes it so that it's easy to will-o-wisp a tyranitar or weavile to not get pursuited that easily, and its spinblocking niche is more relevant, due to the lack of ghost-types in OU. It's a decent mon overall and it should probably get an analyses tbh
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: High Jump Kick
move 2: Fake Out
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Bullet Punch / Thunder Punch
item: Medichamite
ability: Pure Power
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
And perhaps an analyses for jellicent? It's been poping up here and there as an answer to said medicham (lacking tpunch) , volcanion (kinda), keldeo, etc and as a deterrent to water type attacks in general, colbur berry makes it so that it's easy to will-o-wisp a tyranitar or weavile to not get pursuited that easily, and its spinblocking niche is more relevant, due to the lack of ghost-types in OU. It's a decent mon overall and it should probably get an analyses tbh
Probably not much of a need for a full scale revamp. I submitted a CMS edit removing the mention of Mega Gallade and updating the moveset a bit.