Keldeo can also run Substitute, and very few of its counters can break its +2 Substitutes. I've seen games where if one player had SubCM Keldeo he/she would have won.
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OU Usage Stats — August 2013
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I guess, yes. But terrakion has better two STAB coverage and stuff. Does most of its counters include amoonguss, slowking and jellicent? Not to mention stuff like latias and celebi. Well w/e i'm tired of arguing against CM keldeo.
Have you ever tried using CM Keldeo with rain support or paired with T-tar? It's amazing actually. It hits so fucking hard, and like the users mentioned above, it's useful resistances let it setup a Sub or setup a CM quite easily on a number of things. Terrakion is MUCH more easily revenge killed. I've just always found it so much easier to setup a Sub and or a CM with Keldeo, because it's defensive typing is quite good. Terrakion's defensive typing leaves it weak to common typing, which keeps it from setting up a Sub successfully against a number of things. CM Keldeo is amazing. Don't knock it till you try it.
Eh
ehh, was done arguing about it but imo keldeo loses too much coverage and becomes easier to wall. W/e
Yeah, except Tyranitar's Pursuit support (or any Pursuit support, really) is mindblowing. If you get rid of any of the six Pokemon that your opponent is carrying that "hard wall" Keldeo then you've got a very easy sweep on your hands.
@Lord of Bays
I've already argued that ttars pursuit trapping ability is overrated and many pony checks can get around it.
I've already argued that ttars pursuit trapping ability is overrated and many pony checks can get around it.
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Why is Thundy-T so low, not even top 30? IMO, its really effective in this meta, especially paired with Keldeo. Why? Because Celebi is usually the best switch in to both and it gets fucked by U turn. Latias doesnt lIke taking U turns either. Toxicroak gets fucke by thunder. Not to mention its CS set and various boosting sets.
I agree with you on this one. It's not like Gastrodon is rising in usage or anything, and the only thing that's a very reliable counter is Amoonguss, but it's pretty damn rare. Latias isn't a very reliable switch-in due to the fear of eating a U-turn, and Chansey is 2HKOed by the Mixed variants with Superpower, while T-Tar is OHKOed. In the rain, Thunder destroys everything. The Double Dancing set seemed to have died off for some reason even though it's one of its best set. Scarf Thundurus-T is pretty good right now with E-Belt and Specs Keldeo being pretty damn common. It's hard telling. A lot of weather reliant Pokemon that are weak to SR tend to get less usage, but the funny thing is, Thundurus-T doesn't really NEED rain support, as Thunderbolt is still a powerful move on its own. I personally love Thundurus-T, and I think its Mixed Expert Belt set needs to get a LOT more recognition, because it's arguably one of its best sets right now, inside and outside of rain.
I think that in practice the idea of using both thundy-t+keldeo to lure in celebi/latias for u-turn so one can sweep doesn't play out nearly as well in theory
You have people that either are dumb and make dumb plays that are impossible to predict (like switching in a jellicent to thundy or something... idk) and then once u-turn is revealed, the jig is up and you are left with two pokemon who are walled by the same things and can't break through those things (which are quite common). And while it's great for luring in gastro and the like, a thundy that isn't threatening to set up and sweep you in the face is a relatively benign thundy.
You have people that either are dumb and make dumb plays that are impossible to predict (like switching in a jellicent to thundy or something... idk) and then once u-turn is revealed, the jig is up and you are left with two pokemon who are walled by the same things and can't break through those things (which are quite common). And while it's great for luring in gastro and the like, a thundy that isn't threatening to set up and sweep you in the face is a relatively benign thundy.
I've NEVER seen it on our prestigious ladder.
I wont really bother on c/ping everything im curious about, but wtf, jirachi at 31% in the suspect stats, i did see a crap ton of lure rachis in the ladder, but not nearly as much as i saw starmie, which btw started running psyshock and analytic, which is not fun, i dont like my kyubee getting 2hkod w/o rocks.
Funny how chomp ended up taking the #3 spot instead of lando, while both of them are pretty much redundant in the same most of the time, i think most players appreciate chomp's superior offensive potential, even in a meta where keldeo is gone, do you get my point?
Funny how chomp ended up taking the #3 spot instead of lando, while both of them are pretty much redundant in the same most of the time, i think most players appreciate chomp's superior offensive potential, even in a meta where keldeo is gone, do you get my point?
I took a short break from pokemon and all the usage tiers are still the same looks like I didn't miss much
Ninetales doesn't get enough love. After it's sun sweepers are significantly better than the two sand sweepers, and swift swim and drizzle are banned.
'Scizor top percentage again, what a suprise' (rolls eyes)
'Scizor top percentage again, what a suprise' (rolls eyes)
Sun teams are extremely predictable imo, Ninetales/Venusaur/Firetypesunsweeper/Secondary Chlorophyll user or dugtrio/spinner/filler. But yeah, they are very effective. Also, Keldeo at #15 XD lower than gengar and breloom. People sure do realize how broken it is[/sarcasm]
Sun teams may have it worse in this meta than in any other, but I assure you, they're still a-kickin'. One of the breakout threats that I am absolutely loving for Sun is Conkeldurr. He is a hard punishment for any Ferro switch-in, and with Life Orb and Iron Fist in tow, people are starting to remember that he's a threat. You can't really switch into him without getting killed, and he can take the initiative on many defensive Pokemon who simply don't have what it takes to stop him.
What's most impressive, however, is that having the strongest Mach Punch possible absolutely CHANGES GAMES. Speaking as someone who's done many calcs in my time playing competitive Pokemon, you should always be afraid if he's +1 and you have a faster resist at ~30%. He will kill.
I believe there is little place for Guts in this meta; it's too fast for you to try and wait for Conk to get hit with status when you can just get all of your damage right away. Despite his newfound potential, I believe that Conkeldurr will remain at the cusp of mid-OU while people opt for more devastating fighters. Spore is still an absolutely broken move, thus Breloom, and Keldeo is Keldeo.
What's most impressive, however, is that having the strongest Mach Punch possible absolutely CHANGES GAMES. Speaking as someone who's done many calcs in my time playing competitive Pokemon, you should always be afraid if he's +1 and you have a faster resist at ~30%. He will kill.
I believe there is little place for Guts in this meta; it's too fast for you to try and wait for Conk to get hit with status when you can just get all of your damage right away. Despite his newfound potential, I believe that Conkeldurr will remain at the cusp of mid-OU while people opt for more devastating fighters. Spore is still an absolutely broken move, thus Breloom, and Keldeo is Keldeo.
Breloom's Mach Punch is significantly stronger when he's using Technician, just a reminder.
Breloom's 252+ Technician Mach Punch v. Latios: 21.59 - 25.58%
Conkeldurr's 252+ Iron Fist Mach Punch v. Latios: Mach Punch: 17.94 - 21.59%
Breloom's 252+ Technician Mach Punch v. Latios: 21.59 - 25.58%
Conkeldurr's 252+ Iron Fist Mach Punch v. Latios: Mach Punch: 17.94 - 21.59%
Yes, those are indeed flaws but I think you should try it out yourself. Once it has a sub up, prepare to be in a trouble, simply because of its bulk and power even when uninvested. Oh well actions speak louder han words so I'll post some replays when I can get on. Damned Chinese culture, mothers giving you even more work on Saturdays.
Sun team's aren't that predictible, it's just that your doing it wrong, you don't build sun teams like a rain team, the difference with sun is that you have to put actual THOUGHT into the teams, effectively making the spam venu and volc teams not as effective and predictible, overall sun is the best weather in OU right now *debatable but imo it is*, people are just too dumb to use it well consistantly, come on people, try to be creative
You misunderstand. He doesn't have the strongest Mach Punch ever, but the strongest Mach Punch he can feasibly have is a huge boon to helping him sweep, since it allows him to clean up even with just +1 Attack. This is huge on Rain teams, which can normally blow right past Conkeldurr; however, its most common special attackers don't resist Mach Punch.
+1 Mach Punch on Keldeo: 60.37 - 71.2%
+1 Mach Punch on (Bulky) Rotom: 56.18 - 66.55%
+1 Mach Punch on Specs Politoed: 58.33 - 69.01%
Not bad for a 40 BP move. Also, consider that any of them switching in could result in getting flat out KOed by Drain Punch. Attacking straight away is something not enough Conkeldurr users do, actually. Most people would rather get greedy with Bulk Up. 140 base Attack isn't just for show, you know.
But the thing is, once you get that Calm Mind boost, along with Keldeo's normal power, the pony can muscle through all the opposition.
Oh, sorry. Yeah, that makes sense. As far as what people are running, I've seen a lot of Sheer Force Conkeldurrs recently.
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