Outrage-ous Magnetism!

[Luxormaniac]

First things first, DO NOT copy and paste the entire original team, it is rather irritating to me.

It's been a while since I've been seriously battling, so I'm still working my way up to speed. I was never the best team builder in the first place, and now my skills are... seriously lacking. This team isn't bad, which by my building standards is godly, but its not exactly Wobbuffet and Groudon's SubSeed Machine Gun, if you know what I mean. Without further ado.

This team was built around the idea of first removing enemy steels with Magnezone support, then Outraging away with Salamence. This famous "Magnemence" or "Salazone" combo actually resists each others weaknesses, making it quite effective. In keeping with the defensive combos theme, I added CeleTran to gain backup resists, along with Celebi stopping many of OUs offensive threats and Heatran absorbing random x4 resists and whatnot. I further added Swampert to SR and help with my Mence weak, and finished the whole thing off with a Spiritomb lead.
So, basically:
1. Spiritomb burns, Celebi paralyzes, and Heatran poisons.
2. Magnezone eliminates enemy steels.
3. Salamence rips through the crippled team.

Here we go, for real.
I'll link to the Smogon sets for these guys (until your suggestions make them invalid) for further reading and comprehension. Celetran was common sense, but I got MagneMence from this thread. Watch out, I was kind of an "ass" in that thread, gorm would agree)

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/spiritomb Set: Starter

Spiritomb (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/140 Atk/116 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Pain Split
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Will-o-wisp

My lead. Rather unorthodox, but I've used him as a lead in the past and he gets the job done. No SR, but he can cripple Ttar/Metagross with WoW, whack Azelf with Sucker Punch/Pursuit, immune any Explosion, and heal himself up later. He hardly ever perishes in the initial line of fire. Plus, Bliss is free Pain Split bait later on when one comes in on Heatran. If an enemy Tran comes in to sponge WoW, I just send in my Tran, which oddly enough they never expect. This guy is a beast of a lead.

As for suggestions/improvements regarding him, I've been considering Hypnosis over WoW. The accuracy isn't that different, and Hypnosis would benefit me more in many cases. Overall though, not much to play around with on this crazy little demon.

---
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/swampert Set: MixPert

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP/216 Def/52 SAtk
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Stealth Rock

[Stealth] Rock on, bro! You "have" to have SR in this metagame, and Swampy gets the job done. The rest of my team has somewhat of a Ttar/Mence weak, and here's my answer. EQ hits Ttar and gets STAB, Surf hits Heatran STAB from the other spectrum, and Ice Beam hits Mence x4 right where it hurts. He's definitely bulky enough to lay down SR, and I like him.

I was considering a RestTalk Pert here, but he suffered from moveslot syndrome. I can't think of any improvements for this guy either, really.

---
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/celebi Set: Defensive

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Recover

Half of Celetran and my first line of physical Defense. Twave cripples Gyarados, Salamence, and Heatran (and Breloom if I hit first) and butters random people up for the rest of my team. Grass Knot hits the Grounds who immune Twave, and gets STAB. HP Ice helps with my Mence difficulties, and hits Breloom (hey, him again.) Recover simply keeps me alive to do it all again.

I've been considering a Leech Seed set here. In most cases, though, Twave proves more useful.

---
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/heatran Set: Substitute

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power

Call it what you want, this guy is crazy. 99.99% of the time he will force a switch, giving him a sub, and then he Toxics the Gyarados or Tyranitar or BLISSEY. With that done, Celebi can happily come in to wall most of the things that are in. It's a beautiful thing. He saves Celebi's hide whenever she's in danger because of that beautiful typing synergy. Big help.

I could go Scarfed, but I felt like I had Magnezone, and I'm considering choicing Mence so choicing Heatran would give me too much choice giving me not enough choice, know what I'm saying?

---
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/salamence Set: Dragon Dance

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Basic DD Mence. DD is for boosts and not having to worry about being locked in. Outrage is for ridiculous STAB once Magnezone clears out Steels. Fire Blast for levitating Steels, and EQ for Heatran and SE. My late game. His synergy with Magnezone is ridiculous. EVs are because I don't care so much for Fire Blast, and I like not dying.

I considered choicing him, or even substituting him with Latias or Flygon. He's pretty open right now.

---
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/magnezone Set: Choice Scarf

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon
- Explosion

Central to my team's strategy. Magnezone traps, outspeeds, and kills all non-Scarfed Steels. Plus, his defensive and offensive synergies with Mence are outstanding. Tbolt is for STAB and the stronger choice against most Steels. HP Fire hits Scizor before I get Superpowered, which would really ruin my day. Flash Cannon is backup STAB, and Explosion is to go out with a bang, pun intended.

Bronzongs have been EQ'ing me lately, so I'm considering the first set in the analysis with Magnet Rise.

---

That's my team. 2 solid defensive combos, a utility defender, and a nice lead. Thanks in advance for your aid in RMT'ing.

 

[Luxormaniac]

I'm using my standard Smogon bump, as nobody has seen fit to RMT my team yet, unfortunately.

 

[Veedrock]

I'm not the best at team rating, so bare with me. Interesting that you've decided to do an offensive duo and a defensive duo on the same team.

Just what exactly does Spiritomb "do" for the team? He's a decent starter but doesn't really start the match off in your favor. It's a slight annoyer while they continue to do their thing. Hypnosis would definately help him actually do something, but then again, what happens after that? I just don't feel that Spiritomb pushes things your way like most leads. I don't have any personal experience with Spiritomb though, so if it's working just fine then that's my bad theorymon =X

Swampert is a fine choice of bulky water and does what he needs to for your team, though there's a real heavy burden on him to take on Salamence. Because you have things like Gyarados and Grass types essentially covered, ResTalk would work nicely as Swampert really needs some form of recovery. Since you don't have wish, try it out. If you're looking for an alternative pokemon, Gliscor could work nearly (if not just) as well due to instant recovery, though you need to watch your ice weaknesses and he doesn't handle opposing Heatran as well.

Celebi is Celebi. It's fine and works with Heatran. The set you have will work better than a leech seed for this team, as it seems you switch around a lot.

Substitute Heatran is good for eliminating his standard counters but since Celebi (and Swampert to an extent) already handles your standard counters, LO (found in C&C) or Choice Scarf will probably do you more good. Make sure you can predict well with choice though.

Good old DD 'Mence. With Stealth Rock and Sandstorm, Life Orb isn't the most optimal item of choice. It does give you considerably more firepower, but for the sake of longevity you might try Lum Berry. If you keep it in tact, you'll be good to go after Outrage; otherwise, it allows you to switch into Blissey without fail to scare her off, allowing a good setup opportunity.

As for Magnezone, Scarf is really overhyped. The only steel that you really outrun is Lucario (which I'll admit does a number on this team without Spiritomb). Scizor and Metagross always run Adamant (unless they're scarfed, which you win if they're in the wrong attack anyways), which you can easily beat with Timid. Come in on an easy attack, magnet rise on Meta/Bronzong or simply fry Scizor. Long point short, Timid without a scarf will give you what you need.


I'm pretty bad at synergy on paper, but how exactly do you handle Lucario and Infernape? Both look like they could ravage you pretty bad.

 

[joshe]

Veedrock did pretty well, and I also wonder how you deal with Lucario and Infernape, some of the biggest threats in this metagame. I also wonder about latias, as only Spiritomb could possibly contain the offensive verisons. What I'm going to do is try to improve this team the bast I can.

Now, what we'll do now is change up your magnezone a bit to help with those steels and mainly scizor who is Salamence's worst enemy. With Scarf, as veedrock said you only get the jump on Lucario, and Magnezone is NOT a good check for the dog-beast thing, so You should limit it to taking out Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory,Bronzong, and some slower verisons of Metagross. To do this, I suggest an ev spread of 36 Hp/252 SpAtk/220 Spe, to outspeed All adamant scizor, to OHKO with hp-fire before they get you with a fighting attack. This along with a Timid nature. The move set I suggest you to use is T-bolt, Hp-fire, Substitute, and Magnet Rise. You need Substitute because alot of Metagross, and almost all Bronzong and Forretress carry Explosion, allowing you to have the Sub take it, preserving Magnezone throughout the battle. Magnet Rise is very usefull after you've subbed so you can take on several versions of Metagross.

Salamence really needs either a naughty or naive nature to not mess up Spatk which, when I'm done will be needed for the OHKO on skarmory. In your case, A Naive nature because i don't want to mess up your playng style to much and most threats for Salamence usually run a Ppositive nature, namely Zapdos with hp-ice(Offensive zapdos can be a major problem for your current team if swampert is gone). Secondly, I suggest you put a spread of 232 Atk/24 SpAtk/252 Spe, to get that OHKO on Impish, min Spdef Skarmory who could wall you if it gets the chance. Now your saying " but I have Magnezone for Skarm," But alot of Skarmory and Forretress carry shed shell, as you may know, so watch the log before you send him out. Keep Life Orb soley for the fact that you are running a Positive sseed nature.

With Magnezone now a Steel killer, You need a revenge killer and something to help take care of Lucario and Infernape, and Heatran fits the bill for your needs. Put a Choice scarf on Heatran a Naive nature, and 6 Atk/252 SpAtk/252 Spe, along with Explosion, Fire Blast, Earth Power, and Hp-Ice/Dragon Pulse. He helps...bah, everyone knows what he does. He's not 3rd on usage for no reason. With Dragon Pulse you'll be able to hit Latias harder and hit Kingdra super effectively. With Hp-ice you get the 4x weak dragons.

Celebi is Celebi, But I suggest you have HP-Fire over Hp-ice, as you'll find that Scizor's U-turn is too much, and the predictive player will always know that Heatran is in the wings because of the Celetran combo, so switching in heatran or Magnezone won't always be a good idea, so hp-fire is a good way to get rid of fire types.

Swampert is forever. I prefer Hydro Pump for alot more damage output, but surf is just as good considering hydro pumps less than satisfying accuracy.

Spiritomb isn't a good lead at all since you already get completely walled by Infernape and Heatran. He's got to go. A Useful anti-lead would go well here, particully Starmie who gets rid of Stealth rock early in the game for Salamence:

Starmie @ Life Orb
Natural Cure
Evs: 4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Timid
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Rapid Spin
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam

He OHKOs or 2HKOs nearly all common leads and Suicide leads utilizing Focus Sash, promptly get hit down to 1 hp with the sash as they set up Stealth Rock, and then get taken out by rapid spin while also getting rid of the said Stealth Rock. If you need more reasoning refer to this. Any other lead works, even Swampert works. I just don't like you using Spiritomb.

Hope I helped and If you need more help just post back here and I'll do the best I can.

Good Luck.