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OverKilled and Rate! (OU) RMT
- Thread starter joshe
- Start date
DD LO Gyarados rips this team bad. The best thing you can really do is Trick it. Scizor would love to come in and even with Magnezone, you can't withstand Gyarados' fury. You can add the extra insurance by putting Thunderbolt on Gengar to get that ohko on Gyarados. I see no point of HP Ice except to take out dragons, all of which are 2ohkoed by Shadow Ball with a Modest Nature.
First of all, Life Orb on a spinner is always a bad idea. Losing HP for using a sucky move like Rapid Spin isnt good. Use Leftovers or any other item except Life Orb (and Choice items lol)
Since your most important member is Salamence, i would say that you run Yache Berry (like i do). Simply because ANY Ice Sharder will kill you. Not mentioning scarf pokemons with Ice Attacks (like Scarf Infernape).
Dont rely on Magnezone to take Skarmory, most of them carry Shed Shells, making them hard to finish!
Also, talking about Skarmory, change your EV combination on Mence to 232 Attack, 24 Sp Attack and 252 Speed. You need the speed to at least force a speed tie with Adamant Scarf Flygon after a DD, and change Fire Fang with Fire Blast. Fire Blast + those Sp Attack EVs will OHKO standard Skarmory with SR support. Change the nature too if you are willing to do the change.
Since your most important member is Salamence, i would say that you run Yache Berry (like i do). Simply because ANY Ice Sharder will kill you. Not mentioning scarf pokemons with Ice Attacks (like Scarf Infernape).
Dont rely on Magnezone to take Skarmory, most of them carry Shed Shells, making them hard to finish!
Also, talking about Skarmory, change your EV combination on Mence to 232 Attack, 24 Sp Attack and 252 Speed. You need the speed to at least force a speed tie with Adamant Scarf Flygon after a DD, and change Fire Fang with Fire Blast. Fire Blast + those Sp Attack EVs will OHKO standard Skarmory with SR support. Change the nature too if you are willing to do the change.
I'm agreeing with Rey in the matter of the Yache. It just plain allows you to continue your sweep longer.
I recommend changing Trick for HP [Ice]. Simple because it allows you to easily revenge kill Salamence in one hit.
Once again agreeing with Rey. 232 Att/ 24 SpA/ 252 Spe. For all of the same reasons. (stealing my ideas!)
Hope I helped!
I recommend changing Trick for HP [Ice]. Simple because it allows you to easily revenge kill Salamence in one hit.
Once again agreeing with Rey. 232 Att/ 24 SpA/ 252 Spe. For all of the same reasons. (stealing my ideas!)
Hope I helped!
He already has HP Ice. The matter is Trick is an awesome move to screw walls, after the Trick, walls become easy set-up fodder for a sweep. I think the Gengar is cool as it is right now. Since Starmie wont die from a +1 Earthquake of an Adamant Gyarados (it needs LO to kill with SR support) and with Intelligent play, you can manage to get an Intimidate, making Starmie survive easier.
Alright guys, first off thanks for posting. I'll just start with your posts ReyScarface, The only reason I use Life orb on Starmie, is to get that 2HKO on swampert with Hydro Pump but seeing as its pretty much the same damage output, expert belt works fine to.
I like gengar as is. I don't ever have problems with gyarados.
I have had absolutly no problems, salamence so far. most flygon run 176 spe evs with an adamant nature following the analysis, so i've had no problems with it(gengar can revenge kill).
I prefer all physical because it doesn't mess with defenses. Also, I have Leftovers to neutralize sandstorm, as i have no problem with ice sharders, switching to starmie or gengar, or alot of times metagross for weavile, and go from there. Plus after 2 DD's its a 2HKO on the satndard skarm, also who would switch in on a salamence now, with all the mixmences around.
But, I think I'll try yache berry. it does sound good. And I don't rely so maggy to take out steels like skarm or forry that don't have recovery.
Thanks again guys hopefully alot more rates to come =)
I like gengar as is. I don't ever have problems with gyarados.
I have had absolutly no problems, salamence so far. most flygon run 176 spe evs with an adamant nature following the analysis, so i've had no problems with it(gengar can revenge kill).
I prefer all physical because it doesn't mess with defenses. Also, I have Leftovers to neutralize sandstorm, as i have no problem with ice sharders, switching to starmie or gengar, or alot of times metagross for weavile, and go from there. Plus after 2 DD's its a 2HKO on the satndard skarm, also who would switch in on a salamence now, with all the mixmences around.
But, I think I'll try yache berry. it does sound good. And I don't rely so maggy to take out steels like skarm or forry that don't have recovery.
Thanks again guys hopefully alot more rates to come =)
I don't really see Gyarados being a huge problem for this team. Starmie outspeeds and will take a good deal off. I might suggest to replace Trick or Focus Blast on Gengar for Thunderbolt, in case you lose Starmie, but it's up to you. Blissey will always expect Trick or Explosion if you switch Gengar into her (unless it's into Toxic/Seismic Toss, but still...). If she Protects and blocks Trick, then they can switch to a Choice user and screw you over.
I would second the Yache on Mence. He's an all or nothing sweeper as it is, especially in the late game where you very likely could have your spinner down, and Leftovers recovery just isn't powerful enough. Lum/Yache is going to save you more often.
I would second the Yache on Mence. He's an all or nothing sweeper as it is, especially in the late game where you very likely could have your spinner down, and Leftovers recovery just isn't powerful enough. Lum/Yache is going to save you more often.
This is a pretty nice team, but there are a few problems here and there:
Your largest weakness at the moment seems to be opposing Metagross. Metagross can do a lot of damage to this team. Gengar isn't going to easily revenge it seeing as though it is a Timid Scarfer. Starmie is actually your best bet...still, Metagross can come in on Salamence's Outrage and beat it, but that can't really be helped.
Gyarados is definitely a problem as mentioned. I really don't think Gengar can handle Gyarados too easily and Starmie isn't a good switch after it pulls off a DD. You could run a Scarf Latias or something which can easily KO Dragons and Gyarados and can even revenge other weakened things thanks to it's great movepool. Unfortunately, a DDTar weak then comes up. (at least ScarfGar had a chance with Focus Blast) Still, Latias can run HP Fighting/Surf/Grass Knot, but w.e
For an Offensive Salamence, I recommend using Life Orb. There's no point in using yache berry when a +1 LO Salamence is going to be OHKOing most of the bulky waters that run Ice Beam anyways. (Starmie beats all the bulky waters handily too) Still, if you want to be extra safe against HP Ice scarfers and Mamoswine, it's an option.
If you really want Salamence to survive a long way for the sweep, I'd go with BulkyMence. Fire Fang loses coverage on Skarmory and Bronzong, but you have Magnezone for that. And CB Tar can deal a lot of damage to both of them as well and if it finishes them off, you pretty much have a safe sweep.
Anyways, it's a nice team and if I think of anything else, I'll repost.
Your largest weakness at the moment seems to be opposing Metagross. Metagross can do a lot of damage to this team. Gengar isn't going to easily revenge it seeing as though it is a Timid Scarfer. Starmie is actually your best bet...still, Metagross can come in on Salamence's Outrage and beat it, but that can't really be helped.
Gyarados is definitely a problem as mentioned. I really don't think Gengar can handle Gyarados too easily and Starmie isn't a good switch after it pulls off a DD. You could run a Scarf Latias or something which can easily KO Dragons and Gyarados and can even revenge other weakened things thanks to it's great movepool. Unfortunately, a DDTar weak then comes up. (at least ScarfGar had a chance with Focus Blast) Still, Latias can run HP Fighting/Surf/Grass Knot, but w.e
For an Offensive Salamence, I recommend using Life Orb. There's no point in using yache berry when a +1 LO Salamence is going to be OHKOing most of the bulky waters that run Ice Beam anyways. (Starmie beats all the bulky waters handily too) Still, if you want to be extra safe against HP Ice scarfers and Mamoswine, it's an option.
If you really want Salamence to survive a long way for the sweep, I'd go with BulkyMence. Fire Fang loses coverage on Skarmory and Bronzong, but you have Magnezone for that. And CB Tar can deal a lot of damage to both of them as well and if it finishes them off, you pretty much have a safe sweep.
Anyways, it's a nice team and if I think of anything else, I'll repost.
I think everyone else has covered what I would say.
No offense but I don't really like Starmie being so weak using recover and Rapid Spin.
I would go with the bulky spinner. The extra defenses really make him tough, living a CB STAB Tyranitar Pursuit and such. Though, you wont get those KOs on the pokemon you stated.
Also just a Q, Where did you find those big centre sprites ? they are quite good.
No offense but I don't really like Starmie being so weak using recover and Rapid Spin.
I would go with the bulky spinner. The extra defenses really make him tough, living a CB STAB Tyranitar Pursuit and such. Though, you wont get those KOs on the pokemon you stated.
Also just a Q, Where did you find those big centre sprites ? they are quite good.
Great stea.. I mean team. Replaced Metagross and Gengar with Jirachi and Rotom. Jirachi is much more durable than Metagross ala Wish-hax and better defenses and speed, and offers double support ala paralysis. Rotoms helps with the teams Metagross problem and offers a more reliable switch into Gyarados, though in practice it has only done marginally better than Gengar. But these were just my personal tweaks, great team.
Jirachi @ Shed Shell
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/22 Atk/76 Def/160 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Iron Head
---------------------------
Rotom-s @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
Jirachi @ Shed Shell
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/22 Atk/76 Def/160 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Iron Head
---------------------------
Rotom-s @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
Alright guys, thanks again for posting. BC thanks for the insight, I don't know about bulky mence, but i'll try it. the only reason i use lefties on mence is to neutralize sandstorm, and everything should already be sufficiently weakened, by the time he comes in.
Thanks for posting guys and keep rating =)
Thanks for posting guys and keep rating =)
sorry for not getting back to you sooner!
an interesting team for sure, but I dunno how practical it is. the thing about salamence is the fact that cb scizor is everywhere combined with the debilitating sr weak makes it not worth the effort to build a team based around salamence. as in, here you find yourself wasting your time with spinners, dedicated steel killers, and a whole mess of stuff that is basically only worthwhile when mence is alive. basically what I'd like you to do with this team is switch around some stuff. first things first, switch your cbtar for a ddbabiri tyranitar. what this does essentially is lures in scizor as well as bronzong, allowing you to take them out right quick without relying on magnezone. in the meantime, it gives you a backup sweeper and still manages to break stall decently well. what this does is frees up another spot in magnezone's place for a third backup sweeper. Here I'd like a sdluke personally, for its ability to not only break stall, but also the ability to sweep teams should someone, say, pursuit your gengar or something. He also is fun to sweep with once tyranitar has sacrificed himself to be a dick to hippowdon (and then you bring gengar in to either trick the blissey ansd make it super setup bait or just trick the scarf onto hippo as he slacks off and permanently dismember the one luke counter that stall can use). luke adds some priority, which helps you to revenge kill random stuff if/when gengar has tricked his scarf or gotten pursuited.
Basically, the addition of ddbabiri tar and sdluke greatly lowers the necessity of salamence to sweep, giving you more options, and therefore more room to think and win without having to rely on dodgy predictions to get the job done. in the meantime, the changes keep the level of offensive pressure incredibly high, threatening to not just revenge kill but sweep on a moment's notice should your opponent get cute and try and start throwing pursuits and bullet punches and whatnot.
an interesting team for sure, but I dunno how practical it is. the thing about salamence is the fact that cb scizor is everywhere combined with the debilitating sr weak makes it not worth the effort to build a team based around salamence. as in, here you find yourself wasting your time with spinners, dedicated steel killers, and a whole mess of stuff that is basically only worthwhile when mence is alive. basically what I'd like you to do with this team is switch around some stuff. first things first, switch your cbtar for a ddbabiri tyranitar. what this does essentially is lures in scizor as well as bronzong, allowing you to take them out right quick without relying on magnezone. in the meantime, it gives you a backup sweeper and still manages to break stall decently well. what this does is frees up another spot in magnezone's place for a third backup sweeper. Here I'd like a sdluke personally, for its ability to not only break stall, but also the ability to sweep teams should someone, say, pursuit your gengar or something. He also is fun to sweep with once tyranitar has sacrificed himself to be a dick to hippowdon (and then you bring gengar in to either trick the blissey ansd make it super setup bait or just trick the scarf onto hippo as he slacks off and permanently dismember the one luke counter that stall can use). luke adds some priority, which helps you to revenge kill random stuff if/when gengar has tricked his scarf or gotten pursuited.
Basically, the addition of ddbabiri tar and sdluke greatly lowers the necessity of salamence to sweep, giving you more options, and therefore more room to think and win without having to rely on dodgy predictions to get the job done. in the meantime, the changes keep the level of offensive pressure incredibly high, threatening to not just revenge kill but sweep on a moment's notice should your opponent get cute and try and start throwing pursuits and bullet punches and whatnot.
I would agree with much of Stathakis's suggestions. Salamence really isn't that reliable of a late-game sweeper. Sure, he destroys anything if he gets 2 DDs, and is one of the largest threats in the metagame. But he's is much better suited for breaking the mid-game open, wallbreaking. SD Scizor does take care of him pretty quickly, though. With Life Orb, and the possibility of Stealth Rock, he will get into that KO range very fast, within a few attacks. If your opponent predicts a few of his moves, then he's as good as dead.
Alright I have a idea well I tryed this idea just telling you.
You can use suicune as another switch for starmie the only thing it doesn't have is rapid spin but you don't need much of a spinner SR does 25% to luke, barely any to metagross, well 200% to salamence and normal damage to gengar, starmie, and tyranitar. that isn't that bad at all I suppose well heres the cune i used instead ofstarmie for testing
Suicune @ Leftovers
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Pressure Timid
- HP (Electric)
- Surf
- Ice beam
- Calm mind
He helps alot I suppose like starmie hp elec serves for the t-bolt surf stays surf obviously. Ice beam stays the same too, but heres the switch clam mind over rapid spin beacuse cun cannot learn rapid spin. This guy is more offensive and defensive.
Still rapid spin would help you get free switches and it's popular in the meta game so heres my line up when I was testing on wifi and shoddy same movesets/natures/ablitys.
That's my troop so far but I'm going to also try starmie because I might use this team in the future so I just need to check and it might also help you.
The warrior who's under testing over my cune idea but there's a 70% guarantee i'm going with him so far.
You can use suicune as another switch for starmie the only thing it doesn't have is rapid spin but you don't need much of a spinner SR does 25% to luke, barely any to metagross, well 200% to salamence and normal damage to gengar, starmie, and tyranitar. that isn't that bad at all I suppose well heres the cune i used instead ofstarmie for testing
Suicune @ Leftovers
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Pressure Timid
- HP (Electric)
- Surf
- Ice beam
- Calm mind
He helps alot I suppose like starmie hp elec serves for the t-bolt surf stays surf obviously. Ice beam stays the same too, but heres the switch clam mind over rapid spin beacuse cun cannot learn rapid spin. This guy is more offensive and defensive.
Still rapid spin would help you get free switches and it's popular in the meta game so heres my line up when I was testing on wifi and shoddy same movesets/natures/ablitys.
That's my troop so far but I'm going to also try starmie because I might use this team in the future so I just need to check and it might also help you.