Man I think rez is cool, it requires a lot of coordination to use and it's a truly reactive ult as opposed to something like Lucio or Zenyatta. I like the way it affects teamfights and I'd be sad if it got overhauled or even retooled. I think the fact that it's location based is interesting.
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Overwatch - Brigitte used FLAIL!
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The main problem is that it forces the enemy team to tunnel vision really hard on Mercy during the team fight. And Mercy has to play this game of hide and seek which is really dumb and forces you to stop healing as a healer. Not the most intuitive things. I personally have no problems hiding as Mercy but 9.9 it's pretty unfun if the right thing to do is not heal for like 20s before getting like a 4 man Rez. Pretty much the only reliable things I died to are Dragonblade (less of a problem now cos 6s yo easier for me to kite), Pulse Bombs, Winston+Zarya barrier, and that's it. Yea there's a positioning requirement to it but I don't see it as something that's hard to do as Mercy. You basically see a fight incoming, and by your own game sense of ult advantage, numbers advantage, position advantage, health advantage etc, estimate how the fight is going to turn out and nope out of there before ults start flying everywhere. Killing Mercy on the other hand is also really annoying. Most of the time people who actually chased to kill me basically abandoned the fight just to look for me as if I'm a Sym Tele :( They'd just take the fight 1 man down the whole time just to kill Mercy.
Also Rez doesn't work well for PUGs since most deaths are really staggered and out of place. Better on a proper 6man stack.
I don't see what you mentioned as a problem. When you're incentivized to make counter intuitive lines of play and be forced to decide whether to heal or hide that's interesting to me. It's fun on offense to have to focus on the back line and take out the support while still having an effective push from the front. "You basically see a fight incoming, and by your own game sense of ult advantage, numbers advantage, position advantage, health advantage etc, estimate how the fight is going to turn out" may not be particularly hard to you, but it is a lot of what you need to be successful as any character in this game. It's skill, and I don't think there's a fundamental problem with the way the ult is designed.
And yeah it's less effective in pubs but I also don't think that's an inherent problem. Some characters/ult should perform significantly better in a 6 stack
what if mercy gave her teammates tryndamere ult
It's unfun imo on both lower ends and higher ends of play. On lower ends it's either the Mercy never gets away early enough of people don't even try to kill the Mercy e__e higher ends is really just which Mercy get's the rez off, and playing hide and seek since they'd know to both hide and chase for the kill. That's about it.
But yea, this is a really subjective topic because different people experience it differently and is hard to measure whether it's fun or not fun for people. Some people might see it fun on lower ends, some might see it unfun. I personally feel it's unfun because it takes less skill to stay in a fight, heal and stay alive than to just nope away early when you've decided the team is going to die so better hide 10s in advance.
I don't know if it'd be a comparison but like in TF2, the Medic has to be in the thick of things and still heal before using the Ubercharge. The way it's used is more intuitive in that it doesn't have the opportunity cost of not healing, and you still have to expose yourself to so much danger with fear of dying before using it. There's just much less risk with using Rez, and still Rez will mostly end up with Mercy dying anyway at higher levels. It's all matter of opinion though.
Either way this seems like a plausible approach.
But yea, this is a really subjective topic because different people experience it differently and is hard to measure whether it's fun or not fun for people. Some people might see it fun on lower ends, some might see it unfun. I personally feel it's unfun because it takes less skill to stay in a fight, heal and stay alive than to just nope away early when you've decided the team is going to die so better hide 10s in advance.
I don't know if it'd be a comparison but like in TF2, the Medic has to be in the thick of things and still heal before using the Ubercharge. The way it's used is more intuitive in that it doesn't have the opportunity cost of not healing, and you still have to expose yourself to so much danger with fear of dying before using it. There's just much less risk with using Rez, and still Rez will mostly end up with Mercy dying anyway at higher levels. It's all matter of opinion though.
I had to google that up. I was going to suggest some form of damage resistance to Mercy during the ult cast or something. I think that's pretty decent. And maybe highly boost her healing similar to Transcendence, and manually revive dead teammates during the duration of the ult like in TF2 MvM where you can heal them back to life. It shouldn't take more than a second for each revive though. If it has a cast time to use that might discourage the hide and seek since she can still get knockbacked/blocked etc. I like it and there's still the option of HEROES NEVER DIE. Or maybe the undying effect should apply on teammates in an AOE instead and last maybe 6s similar to Transcendence? However teammates will remain at that low health if you don't top them up so it doesn't outclass Transcendence.
Either way this seems like a plausible approach.
As a Mercy ""main"" of sorts I really enjoy her as a character, yes that includes hiding and waiting for a rez. Really it's not all that different from other ults; for example Reaper can camp high ground, wait for an opportunity and just ult lol which is pretty much what Mercy does. If you don't like Mercy because she's too easy well then she might not be the character for you (she's the easiest of the healers imo, maybe Lucio but correct wallride positioning makes me think he's harder) and you should probably stick with Ana / Zen for healers you'll enjoy. But I don't think she needs to be changed because she's easy or because she just waits and then ults because so many other characters do the same thing :P
Also if you want to play soloqueue the first thing you need to do is stop thinking about how you're going to "carry" and start thinking about how you're going to get your team to stay coordinated. I say this as someone who went from ~2400 ---> diamond (3000) pretty much all solo, playing exclusively tank / support (except for 4 minutes of Reaper in a game I lost RIP). You're right that you can't carry in this game so your only option is to hope for some coordination, even if your team does use ass picks. Sometimes you'll lose because your team lacks coordination but sometimes you'll win because the enemy team can't coordinate so it's a 50/50. Sometimes both teams will be coordinated and it'll just be the better team who wins, those games are usually pretty fun n_n. Also if you play well often times people will ask you to join their group which happened multiple times to me :D. Oh and USE MIC!!
Also if you want to play soloqueue the first thing you need to do is stop thinking about how you're going to "carry" and start thinking about how you're going to get your team to stay coordinated. I say this as someone who went from ~2400 ---> diamond (3000) pretty much all solo, playing exclusively tank / support (except for 4 minutes of Reaper in a game I lost RIP). You're right that you can't carry in this game so your only option is to hope for some coordination, even if your team does use ass picks. Sometimes you'll lose because your team lacks coordination but sometimes you'll win because the enemy team can't coordinate so it's a 50/50. Sometimes both teams will be coordinated and it'll just be the better team who wins, those games are usually pretty fun n_n. Also if you play well often times people will ask you to join their group which happened multiple times to me :D. Oh and USE MIC!!
I'm not sure but as a console pleb I can carry a team as soldier with fifty plus elems while my team does dick all (I also play support!). It might be harder on PC, I don't know, but carrying is 100% still a thing
Well I like Mercy too and actually bought the gold weapon for her! I main all healers basically lol. I don't think Rez is OP, but it has its unfun element to it.
Re: soloq. Yes I've tried talking to other people who were soloq while in a groupq. From my own experience people never listened to anything other than insult one another... Also language barrier is a thing when I play on Asia instead of Americas-SEA region. I personally don't play soloq because it's less fun, too many unknown variables, and playing support in solo in just eh.
Lol I think you entirely misread my posts? I never said it was OP. It just has unfun elements in it. And I don't play soloq so you can't say I can't gain rank solo. It just doesn't seem fun haha. I'm not Stylosa :P
It's possible up to a certain point where if you're still better than the rest of the team but they actively screw you up by feeding etc or the margin of skill difference between you and the team or both teams aren't large enough. OW isn't a game that you can blindly outkill everyone purely with DM. Even playing Genji has its own limitations as each heroes have rather blatant weaknesses. Also there are cases where it's basically carry vs carry. So yea it's possible, but not as possible as in other games like TF2. OW has heavy team elements and emphasis. Also there's like how you can murder half of the enemy team without an ult yet your own team dies to the remaining 3 people in a 5v3 fight etc etc. It's a thing, but not as much. I'm not sure if that's a good thing, but I do quite like OW having such a huge team design. I find it more enjoyable to watch this way.
sandshrewz Oh yeah I'm not saying soloqueue is best, but if you want to rank up communication is like your only chance imo (Unless you're a god like Matthew ... I play console (Xbox) as well and why I've never encountered a language barrier, I think you might not be giving your team enough credit if you're getting 50+ eliminations and winning 0.o)
Yep yep agree. Just my personal opinion that groupq let's you climb to your appropriate rank faster with less random factors hindering you. Oh language barrier is p much only because most people in Asia are either Korean Jap Taiwan etc haha.. I probably don't have as much patience or time to spare to play soloq I guess haha. Props to you if you can enjoy soloq.
Your attitude is ridiculously defeatist and you'll have to work on that before gaining points in any multiplayer game. Lots of things are out of your hands, but by the nature of this game you'll continue to improve through playing and it'll end up showing in your rating. Perhaps it won't immediately, but you will notice a positive trend as time progresses.
I know. But season 1 and 2 proved otherwise. I play a lot, I record and review myself, I read competitiveoverwatch and watch gameplays daily to improve positioning and map awareness, I do practise range and bot train often.
After four huge lose streaks (over 10), and I still haven't got back to my peak on day 1 of the season. I mean, I'll keep playing my best and trying to improve, I just hardly think I'll get much further. I'm close to 300 hours in the game and my s2 average rank (2300~, peak 2580) is below my s1 average (49, peak 51)...
After four huge lose streaks (over 10), and I still haven't got back to my peak on day 1 of the season. I mean, I'll keep playing my best and trying to improve, I just hardly think I'll get much further. I'm close to 300 hours in the game and my s2 average rank (2300~, peak 2580) is below my s1 average (49, peak 51)...
I'm personally probably not playing S2 much since it takes sooo many games to either get to GM, or get enough CP for the next gold wep :C Also I wouldn't worry too much about not getting to Diamond. From S1 experience, 60s are better than 50s, but ultimately I don't think going for 60s is really a big deal. It looks good and that's about it. My games in S1 have been slightly better in 60s but it wasn't that huge of an improvement either.
I guess if you really wanna, setting yourself the goal of Diamond isn't a bad thing. But don't feel bad if you can't reach it imo. I personally don't use their ranks as a judgement of how good they are, since I've personally played with 70s that felt like 60s -__- and conversely had 50s play like 70s (that was an actually fun carry vs carry game where both sides basically didn't cared about the other half of the team xD).
I haven't really explored S2 that much, so what do you guys think about laddering in S2. Does it feel very grindish and how would you compare it to S1 and PS ladder in terms of how grindy it is or maybe quality of ladder. Some opinions would be nice to hear out of curiosity.
I think I mentioned before, but I liked streaks as a personal preference thing despite knowing that it isn't actually a good thing lol. I liked abusing it in S1 to basically gain rank quickly and get out of the rank pit though we all still lingered at 60+% winrate but we couldn't be bothered playing more games since we already could get gold weps ! But for people who soloq, streaks and probably positive win streaks are less common due to how much random factor there are. Don't get hung up on rank or whatever. Just play for the gold weapons is my advice xD You should be able to know for yourself how good you are or how well you've improved without having the rank judge for you. Being able to judge your own skill without bias for yourself is what you should aim for rather than a certain rank.
Also due to how I *think* how grindy the ladder might be, I might suggest you aim for high Plat first before going for Diamond. Gold-Plat seems like a really clustermess of people there with really huge variance in skill. It'll take quite awhile to get out of there even if you're better than most people there. Just give yourself more and lower aims to contend yourself with, I think that will do you better in the long run. And lose streaks sucks :(
While I'd say that rank 50 to 60 from S1 isn't that huge of a jump in terms of skill (but still a noticeable jump), in terms of ladder, it's not as easy to breach to either. Soloq makes your rank more volatile too so yeaaaaa. Take it slow and don't bother about how high you hit in the end lest that only discourages you. Self awareness is more important.
I guess if you really wanna, setting yourself the goal of Diamond isn't a bad thing. But don't feel bad if you can't reach it imo. I personally don't use their ranks as a judgement of how good they are, since I've personally played with 70s that felt like 60s -__- and conversely had 50s play like 70s (that was an actually fun carry vs carry game where both sides basically didn't cared about the other half of the team xD).
I haven't really explored S2 that much, so what do you guys think about laddering in S2. Does it feel very grindish and how would you compare it to S1 and PS ladder in terms of how grindy it is or maybe quality of ladder. Some opinions would be nice to hear out of curiosity.
I think I mentioned before, but I liked streaks as a personal preference thing despite knowing that it isn't actually a good thing lol. I liked abusing it in S1 to basically gain rank quickly and get out of the rank pit though we all still lingered at 60+% winrate but we couldn't be bothered playing more games since we already could get gold weps ! But for people who soloq, streaks and probably positive win streaks are less common due to how much random factor there are. Don't get hung up on rank or whatever. Just play for the gold weapons is my advice xD You should be able to know for yourself how good you are or how well you've improved without having the rank judge for you. Being able to judge your own skill without bias for yourself is what you should aim for rather than a certain rank.
Would not recommend taking reddit sources as reliable guides or whatever. There are a lot of things that gets mentioned that are very over generalized, and probably not good if you're looking to improve to much higher levels. If anything, I'd recommend watching like the top few teams if they're playing tournaments and have VODs. Just to note that both teams should be good and equally good if not you'll learn bad habits from the winning team when they can just do whatever they want and win if they're significantly better lol. Also pro streams are pretty helpful. I personally feel Seagull does a good job throwing in random knowledge here and there in his streams, though not a lot, but probably more reliable at the least.
Also due to how I *think* how grindy the ladder might be, I might suggest you aim for high Plat first before going for Diamond. Gold-Plat seems like a really clustermess of people there with really huge variance in skill. It'll take quite awhile to get out of there even if you're better than most people there. Just give yourself more and lower aims to contend yourself with, I think that will do you better in the long run. And lose streaks sucks :(
While I'd say that rank 50 to 60 from S1 isn't that huge of a jump in terms of skill (but still a noticeable jump), in terms of ladder, it's not as easy to breach to either. Soloq makes your rank more volatile too so yeaaaaa. Take it slow and don't bother about how high you hit in the end lest that only discourages you. Self awareness is more important.
Oh yea, I worked with a YouTuber to test whether or not Roadhog Hook was actually hit scan / projectile. He did conclude that it's delayed projectile rather than what I assumed to be delayed hit scan. I personally have no idea which one it is and can't really be bothered testing it further because there's a lot of weird interactions and assumptions necessary for either case to be properly presented.
However, I would like to point out that we found out it's entirely possible for Roadhog to hook you despite you using Genji's Deflect / Mei's Cryo Freeze etc, and not having their cool downs refunded so we're sure it's not a case of lag compensation. Basically don't ever look at Roadhog if you're not behind a shield :C There's no guarantee you'll not get hooked unless you use like Wraith Form / Recall and idk what else that are absolute defensive/evasive abilities that will override all offensive actions.
However, I would like to point out that we found out it's entirely possible for Roadhog to hook you despite you using Genji's Deflect / Mei's Cryo Freeze etc, and not having their cool downs refunded so we're sure it's not a case of lag compensation. Basically don't ever look at Roadhog if you're not behind a shield :C There's no guarantee you'll not get hooked unless you use like Wraith Form / Recall and idk what else that are absolute defensive/evasive abilities that will override all offensive actions.
Just to play devil's advocate why don't you switch then?
...half the time the person posting this is a support or tank player. can't play both.
also sometimes some picks are more important than others. if they have two tanks and an offtank and you're kicking ass as reaper, you're gonna want someone else to switch. it's competitive, sometimes you have to enable your team to do the best they can by playing around what they feel comfortable on, but that also means picking properly.
this is a silly devil's advocate.
in QP, I'll just pick whatever I feel like if nobody wants to sup or tank and I don't want to do it with one of the other not being there. comp is different.
joim, you should really be duoing or something, especially if you're one of the dps players here. find support/tank friends and queue up. sup/tank players often hate to solo queue so just add ones you like and they'll prob play with you for a few rounds. it's worked with me and i found a whole squad like that.
For me personally, a lot of the times where I'm forced to fill tank/support we end up with very mediocre DPS that can't get as much kills as we need to. So I don't usually trust other people in solo q and like doing the DPS role myself since I trust my own abilities. Most of the time, it works out. Sometimes I'll just take the "leap of faith" if you will and fill a secondary healer spot or like an off-tank and it works out... other times it doesn't and we actually perform way better if I switch out to DPS.
What frustrates me isn't people not picking tank/support, I understand that very well, it's people who play DPS and leave the better players to fill the tank/support role, and never admit that they're playing bad. If I'm having a bad day on Genji I'll just admit it and switch around to whatever the team needs, I'd switch roles with our reinhardt or winston or whatever, no big deal, but too many people don't do that and continue on without switching.
I've had a Pharah player stick to Pharah for 5 rounds on koth, he nearly caused us to lose because the opposing team was dumb enough to not run Pharah counters for the first two rounds, but on the 3rd they brought out a McCree, Soldier, AND Zen and the Pharah was dead before she could even land after using shift... after the entire team telling him to switch very politely and calmly the whole game he never did, claiming he had been carrying the team and that we're shit instead, all the while being super toxic and throwing insults at everyone lol. For whatever reason, people take it extremely personally when you tell them to switch.
I'm just going to assume this is all PC and not console, which is entirely fine, but a solid support generally carries teams. If I go Zen or Lucio on a losing team we might not win, but we did a fuck lot better than we were doing with our Reaper / Tracer / McRee (on Console, really?) team. Maybe because sometimes they hear me calling out my orbs, or I'm being a fucking good Lucio, but I think a lot of blame is to go on people who don't switch.
Sure, there are shitty DPS on your team, but does that give you a right to say "oh this team is fucking up this person needs to switch," over yourself switching? No, fuck no. If you want to win then do your job and actually do your best to support that. If there is a "support or tank" asking someone to switch then the fucking support or tank isn't doing their job. It's a team game. If you expect a DPS to DPS then expect a tank to tank and a support to support (unless he's Zen then he's more DPS I'm not sure where to put him). There is so much hate put on DPS for no reason when there are so many shitty supports and tanks. If you can't heal, you can't take out a Tracer, then get the fuck out of the role.
Your golds mean nothing if you lose, either you were carrying or you weren't supporting your team. Given your loss I'm so curious about which one it was.
Sure, there are shitty DPS on your team, but does that give you a right to say "oh this team is fucking up this person needs to switch," over yourself switching? No, fuck no. If you want to win then do your job and actually do your best to support that. If there is a "support or tank" asking someone to switch then the fucking support or tank isn't doing their job. It's a team game. If you expect a DPS to DPS then expect a tank to tank and a support to support (unless he's Zen then he's more DPS I'm not sure where to put him). There is so much hate put on DPS for no reason when there are so many shitty supports and tanks. If you can't heal, you can't take out a Tracer, then get the fuck out of the role.
Your golds mean nothing if you lose, either you were carrying or you weren't supporting your team. Given your loss I'm so curious about which one it was.
If a support is asking someone to switch to tank when the team has no tank, how are they doing a terrible job? Especially if said support was the only support.. Unless I misunderstood you're not making any sense
If the mercy is asking for a proper tank when the team only has mercy, roadhog, and 4 random DPS then how is she doing a terrible job .-.
Also hate is put on DPS because they're the role that influences the match most. If you have the best Reinhardt player in the world and 3 mediocre DPSes on your team, it wouldn't affect the course of the match as much as if you have one lousy Reinhardt that just holds shield and ults when he gets it, but also have the best DPS player in the world. You can't tell me you've been annoyed by a good ana/rein/mercy/zen/lucio more than you've been annoyed by a good zarya/genji/tracer/reaper/mccree... DPS characters are the most carry-oriented heroes and that's a fact, to win a teamfight you need to get a frag first and no one's more suitable to do that besides DPS heroes. If your DPSes aren't getting the kills first, they're either being way outplayed by the opposing team (which is fine, someone's always better than another) or your DPSes are doing a lousy job. Most of the time, it's the latter.
If your team needs something more than a support you should switch. You might not win but everyone is going to be much less tilted after the loss. DPS is only so important, I put my trust in a DV.A (D.VA?) more than a Genji. Once again it might be a difference of platform (I trust I Torb) but maybe I'm just bad
Ooo the tank support topic. Seriously if there's no support, just learn to play Zen and pocket the next best player and frag everything x) Zen is basically a DPS with very pitiful healing which won't save people who are badly positioned. So yea just pocket the best player and don't worry too much about salty players not getting heals. I mean you can heal other players when your pocket is full but yea keep your heals up with the pocket in mind. Gotta do what you gotta do to win and not care about irrelevant comments. I do purposefully not heal teammates if all they're going to do is feed ults. I know it's dickish and what not but if that's what we need to do to win I'll take it.
Also Zarya is as close as to a proper tank as you can get while still playing as a DPS.
Regarding Matthew, actually DPS is really really important in games. There's plenty a times where the team overall isn't putting sufficient damage if people are playing non consistent damage heroes and you really want to keep your DPS up if you'll just get permanently walled. If you have the highest-ish DPS and you switch to a tank/support just to make composition work, you might be more likely to lose than had you stayed DPS, unless you play a non optimal tank/support and focus on DPS while doing those ala Zen/Zarya.
Of course you have to know what you're doing if you want to make this kind of judgement though. Basically you want to maximize your influence in this game to win. Being good at support / healing doesn't win you games since by design they amplify the strengths of team mates and reduce their weaknesses. But if had not much strength to begin with, there's no point playing either unless you go hybrid since multiplying zero is still zero :P
This all sounds very tongue in cheek but yeaaa as long as you know how much you're doing and whether you should be switching it's fine. Composition is important and all but I wouldn't fret over it too much. But yes it makes sense to get the dps performing poorer to switch up, but if they're going to feed as tanks than I'd rather they stay dps lol.
Also Zarya is as close as to a proper tank as you can get while still playing as a DPS.
Regarding Matthew, actually DPS is really really important in games. There's plenty a times where the team overall isn't putting sufficient damage if people are playing non consistent damage heroes and you really want to keep your DPS up if you'll just get permanently walled. If you have the highest-ish DPS and you switch to a tank/support just to make composition work, you might be more likely to lose than had you stayed DPS, unless you play a non optimal tank/support and focus on DPS while doing those ala Zen/Zarya.
Of course you have to know what you're doing if you want to make this kind of judgement though. Basically you want to maximize your influence in this game to win. Being good at support / healing doesn't win you games since by design they amplify the strengths of team mates and reduce their weaknesses. But if had not much strength to begin with, there's no point playing either unless you go hybrid since multiplying zero is still zero :P
This all sounds very tongue in cheek but yeaaa as long as you know how much you're doing and whether you should be switching it's fine. Composition is important and all but I wouldn't fret over it too much. But yes it makes sense to get the dps performing poorer to switch up, but if they're going to feed as tanks than I'd rather they stay dps lol.
> If there is a "support or tank" asking someone to switch then the fucking support or tank isn't doing their job.
wut? nobody was hating on dps. you are the one being aggressive here. it's just more popular than sup or tank, and dps players are likelier to solo q, so five people are gonna wanna lock it in. some of those people are gonna have to sup and tank.
i'm talking about situations where there are too many dps and not a sup and tank, at least one of which is always necessary in competitive, lmao. don't encourage suboptimal comps in competitive, it's not quick play. as you said rightly, it's a team game, and it works better with coordination and with people playing heroes that synergise and fulfilling the necessary roles. people have the right to politely suggest better strategies.
sorry but you need a tank on pc at all elos. torb is a joke on pc as well; he's extremely strong on console because aiming is much harder, but on pc he's barely usable in two places in all the maps, both places where he's outclassed. your random condenscension in game threads is unwarranted so please cut it out.
as usual sandz is 100% right and knowledgeable here btw! zarya is a great pick right now that can work well with a lot of dps and put out a lot of damage. i like her better with other tanks but you can't have everything. she also works well with squishies because of her shields. i would add that the importance of dps is why a) being on the right dps (my reaper example) b) if you have 5 dps, the most important dps being preserved and the others switching (adjusting for who can play what) matters. if you're on the second tank or sup and your dps aren't doing work and it's not because they're not properly being enabled by the tanks/sups, go zen/zarya/literally switch to a dps yourself can work sometimes, esp on attack. but all situational gamesense stuff.
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