Past Gen RNG Research

[DarkLynx]

Finished IV abusing for that awesome Dragonite. I've captured a Dratini on Dragon's Den to check my seed [I had 4 pokes on party before capturing the Dratini] then I proceeded to inside the building to get the egg, therefore my Dratini's initial frame was 27. I've used save state, then increased the frame by talking to my poke, checked the frame, reloaded the previous save state and then did the frame increase once again. Then I saved another state....Well, you guys will understand after reading my frames after speaking:

Seed: F6090220
Initial Frame: 27
Time: 25/09/2009 - 09:08:13

Hate Face + Hate Face + 1 Happy Face + 1 Hate Face = 189
Hate Face + Hate Face + 1 Happy Face + 1 Hate Face + ... = 203
Hate Face + Hate Face + 1 Happy Face + 1 Hate Face + ... + ... = 217
Hate Face + Hate Face + 1 Happy Face + 1 Hate Face + ... + ... + Spinning Happy = 267
Hate Face + Hate Face + 1 Happy Face + 1 Hate Face + ... + ... + Spinning Happy + Happy = 303

Since my target frame was 306, I've walked around a little bit. 24 steps [inside the building with the 3 old men]increased it to 308, then I walked 7+ steps (I don't really remember, I was checkin' IVs and got my right frame .-.)

 

[Mario With Lasers]

DarkLynx, when you say "happy face" or "happy" do you mean "jump, jump, happy face" or something else?

And what do you mean with 24 steps advancing your frame? Shouldn't it be 128?

 

[DarkLynx]

DarkLynx, when you say "happy face" or "happy" do you mean "jump, jump, happy face" or something else?

And what do you mean with 24 steps advancing your frame? Shouldn't it be 128?

Yes, that's the Happy Face (and Happy, sorry about that).
And yes, my frame advanced in 24 steps. I don't know why.

Here's my progress with Lugia. She's proving to be a pain...-.-

I've saved outside the room facing my poke.

Target Frame: 542
Question Mark [Yes] [Then he Sang] + Spinning Happy + Exclamation = 216
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart = 361
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin = 394
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away = 463
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around = 505
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Happy Face = 535
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on] Listened the Whole Show + Pressed the Upper Left Button and Detuned = 591
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned = 518
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face = 518
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + Happy Face = 590
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + 10 Detunes [Starting on Middle - Press Lower Button - Detune - Press Lower Button [That's 1] = 518
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + Walked 3 Steps, Talked to the Poke [He Looked around] + Walked 3 Steps back to original position = 625
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + 8 Flips of Direction With 5 Pokes = 657
[Changed DS time to 20:02, because my frame was weird]
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + 1 Flip of Direction With 5 Pokes = 518
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + 2 Flips of Direction [Left and Right] With 5 Pokes = 612
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + 2 Extra Steps to Get to Lugia [Inside her room] = 518
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + 2 Extra Steps to Get to Lugia [Outside her room] = 529
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + 1 lap on the lower path on Lugia's Room = 525
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + 1 lap on the lower path on Lugia's Room [Counting the steps: 26] = 525
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + 2 laps on the lower path on Lugia's Room [Counting the steps: 52] = 529

As I said, I saved outside his room, so it's one step to go in the room and 1 to stay in the room, I guess. That would make:
28 Steps = 7 advances. So...Frame advances by one each 4 steps?

---Edit---


Starting here, I've saved a new state inside her room

Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + 1 lap on the lower path on Lugia's Room [Counting the steps: 26] = 525 [I'll call it [Progress 1].
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Turn on Radio [Bottom Left Station on][Listened to the two first lines] + Pressed the Upper Right Button and Detuned + Happy Face + 2 laps on the lower path on Lugia's Room [Counting the steps: 52] = 528
[Progress 1] + 4 laps on the lower path on Lugia's Room [Counting the steps: 104] = 528
[Progress 1] + 5 laps on the lower path on Lugia's Room [Counting the steps: 130] = 657
[Progress 1] + Go Outside and Inside the Room = 525
[Progress 1] + Go Outside and Take 5 extra steps = 648

Ok. I give up. I'll restart from the beginning now and try to stay on:
Looked Around + Happy Face + Looked Around + Heart + Heart + Heart + Happy Face + Sing and Spin + Heart + Look Away + Look Around + Happy Face = 535

----------Edit-----------

Oh yeah, if anyone is wondering how my Poke Emots sequence change from the first to the second, I've taught my Krabby Surf before talking to my poke.

 

[LightningFusion]

The problem with this, you do not have the RNG reporter with method K (to my knowledge). Lugia is method K and since you don't have it, the frames will be off for whatever method you did use. If you looked at method 1 or method J, the numbers mean nothing for how many it advanced.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Wow. Here I thought the happy face increased only by 36, but now I have no idea of how it works .__. It also seems some pokémon reactions have a negative effect (how so?)

As I said, I saved outside his room, so it's one step to go in the room and 1 to stay in the room, I guess. That would make:
28 Steps = 7 advances. So...Frame advances by one each 4 steps?

You mean you were in the entrance to the room and then only looked up, entering the room? If that's so, it doesn't count as a step, at least in DPPt.

The problem with this, you do not have the RNG reporter with method K (to my knowledge). Lugia is method K and since you don't have it, the frames will be off for whatever method you did use. If you looked at method 1 or method J, the numbers mean nothing for how many it advanced.

Ah .__. I haven't thought of that.

 

[DarkLynx]

If Lugia is method K, then TIME increases the RNG on Method K. Because I've entered the game on 20:06:18 of 19/09/2009.
Now it's 03:04:xx of 20/09/2009, and his frame increased from 535 to 541. I'll try advancing one hour in DS to see if I get the right frame. [since it's been 6 hours and 40+ minutes, and the RNG advanced 6 frames]

Oh yes, I left my DS closed for this past 6 hours, just in case you're wondering.

-Edit-

Ok, changing the time makes no different at all...I wonder why it increased though...Maybe a hidden value on the game that increases if you stay ON. I'll backup this save state and try increasing the frames from scratch again .-.

-Edit 2-

Now I changed back my DS time to 19/09 and I got my previous frame (535) How weird .-.

 

[LightningFusion]

Going from 1 day to another does advance it. I believe someone brought this up before in DPPt topic. I don't remember how much it advances, but it does advance. Until you get the method K rng reporter, which will be soon, there is no reason to do tests really.

 

[mingot]

I am still unsure about method K with no synchronizer, but I have went ahead and released 7.10. As requested, the encounter calculator is on for Method K, but I am not sure it actually works (and we don't have tables yet so...)

Going from day to day in DPP does advance the RNG. I need to do my own check on that and update the information for that game at some point. So so busy.

 

[DarkLynx]

Yeah. I failed to capture Lugia withouth a Sync. His spread doesn't even appear in Method K without a Sync. But I manage to capture that beautiful thing:

Lugia
(ID - Lynx - 34846) ()

or

Nature: Bold Ability: Pressure
Hidden Power: Dragon 68 Capture Location: Whrilpool Island Date Captured: September, 20. 2009
IVs: 31 HP | 16 Atk | 31 Def | 31 SpA | 31 SpD | 31 Spe
-----------------------------------------
UT Version [Level 45]: Extrasensory | Rain Dance | Aero Blast| Hydro Pump​

I've talked to my poke until get 501 frame, and then proceeded with the upper right and bottom left buttons on the radio to advance the RNG. I didn't take notes because I wasn't believing I would manage to do it. Sorry about that.​

 

[Mario With Lasers]

I'll try (try) to document the several pokémon reactions and by how much they advance the RNG. I won't use save states, so if anyone with an emulator/flashcart is willing to do the job too, I wouldn't mind...

 

[ΩDonut]

I'll try (try) to document the several pokémon reactions and by how much they advance the RNG. I won't use save states, so if anyone with an emulator/flashcart is willing to do the job too, I wouldn't mind...

I hope you're not forgetting the research I've already done on it. Just to make sure there's no overlap. I didn't use save states, either - I just received a Dratini from the man in Dragon's Den and figured out which frame it landed on.

mingot, do you think you'll be able to find the assembly for the routine that determines which reaction you get on a particular frame anytime soon?

It's probably the RNG number mod something, but if we know the proportions of each we can guess what that something is. I could talk to my Pokemon 1000 times and see how many times I get each reaction.

 

[DarkLynx]

I was wondering, is it possible to abuse from the shiny gyarados on lake rage? I've been doing a few tests, and his IVs doesn't match with any method.

 

[LightningFusion]

According to people, the shiny gyarados IVs are calculated as if it was a chained shiny. The IVs will be found in method 1, but the nature will not correspond. The PID will be calculated from the first 13 frames or so before it. I suggest you look at X-Acts article on how it is calculated.

 

[DarkLynx]

According to people, the shiny gyarados IVs are calculated as if it was a chained shiny. The IVs will be found in method 1, but the nature will not correspond. The PID will be calculated from the first 13 frames or so before it. I suggest you look at X-Acts article on how it is calculated.

Yep. I noticed that. His nature was 'Lonely' and his IVs matched with 'Careful'. I'll take a look at it. Thanks :)

 

[mingot]

Um, that doesn't mean anything is necessarily broken ... As with Method J, there are going to be some things you just can't get without a synchronizer.

Yeah. I failed to capture Lugia withouth a Sync. His spread doesn't even appear in Method K without a Sync. But I manage to capture that beautiful thing:

mingot, do you think you'll be able to find the assembly for the routine that determines which reaction you get on a particular frame anytime soon?

Not super soon, I have been very slammed here and in life :/

If you want to comb over the assembly I could definitely dump some of here, though.

 

[Syberia]

Does anyone know anything about HG/SS egg PID generation? It's been extremely frustrating trying to get a shiny, or even just a normal egg with the nature I want, because the game keeps skipping over about half the PIDs generated with the DPPt method.

 

[LightningFusion]

Does anyone know anything about HG/SS egg PID generation? It's been extremely frustrating trying to get a shiny, or even just a normal egg with the nature I want, because the game keeps skipping over about half the PIDs generated with the DPPt method.

I am testing that now. I know it skips and is annoying, but as of now it is just luck and hope yours isn't skipped and you save before it.

 

[mingot]

Negator also tested and found the same thing -- That it seems to skip. It would appear that there is something advancing the IRNG, but we don't know exactly what it is at this point. He was not getting anywhere near "every other frame" skips, though. Looked closer to 1 in 5. It may be that we HAVE to use the egg pid time finder to find ultra low frame monsters.

The current version actually discards ultra low, though, as I wanted a consistant set of directions (ie you ALWAYS switch to the happiness application). I may need to revisit that. In the meantime Minus Ones application will show a -1 for the happiness checks for ultra low.

If you can find out anything about whats going on, please report.

 

[Syberia]

Well, when I was trying to get a shiny, I found that at one point, it skipped over seven PIDs between two eggs I picked up in a row. My theory is that it has something to do with the phone (which was ringing a shitload while I was breeding yesterday), but I can't be certain, since it skipped occasionally when it wasn't ringing as well.

What it seemed to be doing for me was I'd get the first 4 or 5 eggs normally, then I couldn't ever seem to get more than 2 or occasionally 3 PIDs in a row, before it would skip one, and more than a few times it'd skip two. This happened no matter what my starting seed was.

 

[LightningFusion]

Date (M-D-Y): 5-4-2009
Time: 3:07
Seed: 330301F4
______|_Frame_|___PID___|
Egg 1 | 1 | bcc22ca1
-Phone- | 1efae4ac & 11021e4f
Egg 2 | 4 | ac965d66
Egg 3 | 5 | 793eea47
Egg 4 | 6 | b76dae2e
Skipped| 7 | af2f128c
Egg 5 | 8 | 1923ee73
Egg 6 | 9 | 95470b6b
Egg 7 | 10 | feab1324
Egg 8 | 11 | 17c16346
Skipped| 12 | c40db809
Egg 9 | 13 | 8188d715
Egg 10 | 14 | eaafd77f
Egg 11 | 15 | 4fe9debe
Skipped | 16 | 4612d15b
Egg 12 | 17 | 6f675a3a


Some data on egg breeding and skipping pids. I don't know if it will help much.

 

[Syberia]

This is confusing the hell out of me. I finally locked in a shiny Adamant egg, and when resetting for the IVs, I have confirmed that I have hit my seed twice. Both times, when I immediately take the egg from the daycare man, I get an IV spread that RNGReporter says exists on frame 21,906. I am following the same procedure I have followed numerous times before in DPPt that has always worked, so I really don't know what's going on. I have hit my seed twice, and both times I have gotten the exact same result.

I tried the same thing, with a random seed and no codes turned on, and got the same thing. A ridiculously high frame for my egg IVs, which leads me to believe that it's not following the DPPt generation method at all.

 

[Nik S D]

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but can you only use Method K to abuse interactable Pokemon? Also, will Method K abuse be added to the PRNG Abuse Help/Information thread on the first page?

 

[Kazo]

PRNG Frame Finder

I made a little program to help people RNG abuse in HG/SS and those trying to map out how many RNG calls certain things in the game cause. This requires and emulator.

In DeSmuME go to Tools > View Memory. Enter 021D0AE0 in the View address box and click Go. Set View mode to 32-bit. Initial seed it displayed at C D E F. Current seed is displayed at 8 9 A B. Open PRNG Frame Finder and when prompted, enter the initial and current seeds. It will tell you your current frame.


Download: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SM60RANQ

Help/Showing it works: http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg405/KazoWAR/PRNGFrameFinder.png

 

[LightningFusion]

This is for Syberia:

I am also getting weird frames for Soul Silver breeding IVs. The only IVs that matched with my egg was frame 14000 and it didn't match with my parent pokemon IVs. I think Soul Silver IV creation may be flawed/different.

On frame 4, the spread is
5/15/B/A/10/16.

My parents are :
18/15/15/15/26/21
22/8/14/30/28/3
Egg:
5/15/14/30/10/21


Tried for a second time, and it did work. I got a frame 2 egg.

So this is weird. Maybe there are split spreads just like emerald.

 

[Kazo]

I was doing some research on Eggs. I found something that seems to make RNG abusing Eggs in HGSS very hard to impossible. I double checked to compare it to platinum to see if it was the same before coming to this conclusion. In Platinum you can put both parents in the day-care and the RNG is never called once, untill you leave to house. This makes me think that as soon as 2 compatible parents are in the day-care, an egg is made based on the current seed, but held from the player until they take the right amount of steps. Now, in HGSS as soon as you give the Day-care lady one parent, the RNG gets calls of about once persecond. This is why I think it will very hard to impossible to RNG abuse Eggs in HGSS, because by the time you can get the other parent in the daycare so the game can make the egg, the RNG has advanced quite a few times.