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Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
What's the premise of this Pet Mod?:
Have you ever wondered why such a good Pokemon concept, like Frosmoth, ended up doing poorly competitively because of its stats? Why are pokemon like Toxtricity and Grapploct slow as heck and frail? Well, these questions, my friends, will be answered with this Pet Mod.
How does it work?:
Each slate, there will be a certain theme that you don't have to follow, however, it's recommended you follow the theme parameters if you want to get the extra points.
You can submit any mon you choose, add and remove moves as much as you want, as long as it's not going to be overpowered.
No stats can go lower than 60 or higher than 145 unless said stat is speed, which you are allowed to lower that stat below 60, however, the "x<145" rule still applies to avoid min-Maxing.
In addition to this, please try to avoid submitting already powerful or legendary pokemon. The focus of this metagame is to create a balanced metagame, and buffing already powerful pokemon defeats the purpose of this Pet Mod. Also, try not to make a Pokemon's stats in a way that creates meta-warping levels of power creep. A little bit of power creep is okay, though.
Also, try to keep the BST for non-legendary subs below 600, and make sure the stats and moves match the flavor of the pokemon your submitting.
Regarding custom concepts, you can modify them to your heart's desire, but please make sure the effects are balanced enough for this metagame. Buffing existing abilities/moves are allowed, however, the above does apply.
(Note that if you choose to add custom concepts, you can only have a maximum of 1 of each.)
Are we using NatDex or GalarDex and will any pre-existing mons be allowed when playtesting starts?:
For this one, we're using NatDex OU. When playtesting starts, any pre-existing mons won't be allowed to be used.
Pokemon:
Typing:
Abilities:
Roles (Primary and Secondary):
Stats:
New Moves:
Removed Moves:
Competitive Description:
Custom Elements (optional): Sample Sets (optional):
What questions will this Pet Mod end up conveying to the community?:
- How many of these buffed mons are you going to aim for?
EDIT: Oops, looks like one of my lines completely oofed the concept. Removing that ASAP. Also making a few structural changes here to hopefully satisfy people.
EDIT #2: Not sure why when I save it, one spoiler tag splits into two. It's an annoying glitch that I have no idea about. Anyways, more structural changes.
What's the premise of this Pet Mod?:
Have you ever wondered why such a good Pokemon concept, like Frosmoth, ended up doing poorly competitively because of its stats? Why are pokemon like Toxtricity and Grapploct slow as heck and frail? Well, these questions, my friends, will be answered with this Pet Mod.
How does it work?:
Each slate, 4 randomized concepts are chosen, and the mons you submit must follow these concepts. You can submit any mon you choose, add and remove moves as much as you want, as long as it again, follows the concept parameters.
No stats can go lower than 60 or higher than 145 unless said stat is speed, which you are allowed to lower that stat below 60, however, the "x<145" rule still applies to avoid min-Maxing.
In addition to this, please try to avoid submitting already powerful or legendary pokemon. The focus of this metagame is to create a balanced metagame, and buffing already powerful pokemon defeats the purpose of this Pet Mod. Also, try not to make a Pokemon's stats in a way that creates meta-warping levels of power creep. A little bit of power creep is okay, though.
Also, try to keep the BST for non-legendary subs below 600, and make sure the stats and moves match the flavor of the pokemon your submitting.
Are we using NatDex or GalarDex?:
For this one, we're using NatDex OU. When playtesting starts, any currently existing mons will be allowed to co-exist with the buffed mons.
Following set concept parameters and buffing for the sake of buffing doesn't feel in the spirit of NEXT.
NEXT was made to create an optimal metagame using changes that would be feasible to happen within a generation. Diversification of threats was one way, but also through things like buffing Ice Body to buff Ice as a type, buffing defensive abilities like Shell Armor to boost defensive play, etc.
If we are running a designated NEXT successor, I'd much prefer it to be centered building a metagame and not around Pokemon or concepts. As is, that idea seems like a more metagame-focused and explicitly buff-y version of the Fresh Takes mod I ran a while back (and I believe somebody else took over).
Or do you mean concepts as in “bulky sweeper for the metagame”? That’s be more distinct but still a higher level of change than the NEXT idea is
I know there are ton of them that have faded into obscurity but I really want to play a pet mod that just makes the game more balanced, competitor orientated and less luck based things that can happen. I’m also curious to why none of these mods have really gotten all that big.
I know there are ton of them that have faded into obscurity but I really want to play a pet mod that just makes the game more balanced, competitor orientated and less luck based things that can happen. I’m also curious to why none of these mods have really gotten all that big.
Pretty much every gen 1 mod i know of has resulted in better balance, to varying degrees! I know that's not really what you were talking about, but hey.
For what it's worth, I think gens 2 and 3 could easily be made way more balanced as well (the first 'pet mod' i know of was a gen 3 netbattle balance mod. i am old). Gen 4 and on it probably gets tough because balance issues are less about 'lack of viable options' and more about 'so many viable options that especially oppressive combinations are common.' i think a lot of things could be done to make the game more interesting though. Getting rid of luck elements could be one of them but I feel like people overestimate how much that improves things.
Pretty much every gen 1 mod i know of has resulted in better balance, to varying degrees! I know that's not really what you were talking about, but hey.
For what it's worth, I think gens 2 and 3 could easily be made way more balanced as well (the first 'pet mod' i know of was a gen 3 netbattle balance mod. i am old). Gen 4 and on it probably gets tough because balance issues are less about 'lack of viable options' and more about 'so many viable options that especially oppressive combinations are common.' i think a lot of things could be done to make the game more interesting though. Getting rid of luck elements could be one of them but I feel like people overestimate how much that improves things.
I was more talking about newer gens, yeah. Older gens are definitely easier to balance, but with the more complex newer gens it just tends to make teambuilding even more strained and linear with ever more threats added, types buffed, and reliable STABs provided
With Sword and Shield officially releasing tomorrow, it will be appropriate for some very important questions to be asked.
Which of the Pet Mods do you want migrated from Gen 7 (or even older than Gen 7) to Gen 8? (It could be the Pet Mod you had made or done by someone else, and you could give us a reason.)
Which of the two "Pokémon Availability" would you prefer for your upcoming Pet Mods; Galar-only, or NatDex? (Some Pet Mods, like Mega For All and Regional Variants, would work better with NatDex, but some Pet Mods can be experimental or more fun with the Galar Dex. You can give a custom answer which is something similar to Clean Slate. Ultimately, this is all about your very own discretion as a Pet Mod contributor.)
What new Pet Mod idea that wasn't done before and that you wanted to try out? (Be sure to check the Cold Storage, Thread Cryonics, Closed Forums, Gen 6/7 Competitive Discussions, Other Megagames and then Pet Mods, to ensure it would not be too similar with any past Pet Mods.)
What would be your biggest concerns for the Pet Mods during Gen 8? (It could be any of the new additions, most notably Dynamax as a whole, or whether or not if any of the upcoming Gen 8 Pokémon should have a little priority for returning Pet Mods.)
And finally, what would made you the most excited about the next Generation of Pet Mods? (For exemple, wanting to improve some Gen 8 mons you (or the "general concensus") in need of improvement.)
Please put all spoilers and datamined information in the spoiler tags.
1. I like Roulettemons. It makes you learn the meta from scratch. That's really fun. I was also interested in Breeding Variants. I hope that comes back. Maybe Yung Dramps will steal my adoption mechanic. There's also Fresh Takes, the mod that imo has the most chance of making it on ladder. The Pokedex Redone won't be coming back, but I'll code it, anyway. Anyone has my permission to continue it.
2. NatDex. There's no reason to cut mons. C'mon GameFreak.
3.
In some RPGs, you can select a class for your character that gives it boosts. Likewise, perks give certain abilities. Boosts and abilities, you say? Both of those can be done in Pokemon! So that's where I got this idea. The premise is, the Pet Mod allows for the creation of "classes" you can choose for your Pokemon. These give stat boosts and can function like abilities, giving certain side effects. They can be existing side effects given by existing abilities, or new side effects.
Example:
Warrior (Barraskewda) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs
- Drill Run
Warrior: Grants a 20% bonus to Atk
Attacks that make contact do an additional 10% damage
There would be 21 classes based on the classes from the game "The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion": https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes
Each slate would allow subs for a class, then there would be a vote on them. So 21 slates, altogether.
I haven't seen any new Pet Mod ideas floating around that I'd like to try out. Spook was talking about bringing back The Complete Pokedex Project, but I don't know what that is.
4. Needless limitations like removing features and calling it a feature. Game Freak has been doing this for its last 2 major releases. It's time to put an end to that trend. However, I do not like Dynamax or G-Max, so if you want to remove those, that isn't a big deal imo. Really, I feel like Gen 8 was a mistake, and that it needed more development time to be a decent game, so if you want to make a [Gen 7] Pet Mod, that doesn't even seem like a bad idea imo.
5. Seasonal Ladder. If we decide to make Pet Mods have a seasonal ladder, it will bring some activity to these otherwise dead-ish projects (in terms of playerbase. The forums and the Discord is still alive). I would be excited if there was a Pet Mod that is a relatively simple concept that can be played like an OM.
I've got an idea for a Pet Mod where every Pokémon form-changing mechanics can be extended to new Pokémon by submission.
The name is Extended Mechanics.
We have had many Pet Mods that extend a single mechanic to every Pokémon in the National Dex: MFA extends Megaevolution to all Pokémon, Z-Moves Everywhere gives an exclusive Z-Move to each of them, Regional Variants aims to give a regional form to as many Pokémon as possible and so on... and they all did great job to let us see the effects that each mechanic can have on every other Pokémon on which it wasn't applied by Game Freak. But at the dawn of the 8th generation,
What we don't have though is a Pet Mod that lets each Pokémon have its unique alternate form that enhances its capabilities as it is. This form can be obtained using any of the enhancing mechanics that were introduced during the years in Pokémon games of the main series. This will include:
- Form-change outside battle (e.g.: Deoxys, Rotom, Legendary genies)
- Simple alternative forms (e.g.: Pumpkaboo and Gourgeist or Lycanroc) - this includes giving effect to aestetic changes, like Sawsbuck formes
- Form-change by holding an item (e.g.: UltraNecrozma, Arceus, Giratina)
- Form-change knowing a move (e.g.: Keldeo-Resolute)
- Form-change using a move (e.g.: Meloetta)
- Form-change with an ability (e.g.: Castform, Aegislash, Cherrim, Wishiwashi)
- Regional forms and evolutions
- Megaevolution
- Primal Reversion
- Gigantamax
Giving an exclusive regular or Z-Move to a specific Pokémon will also be possible.
For what concerns Regional forms and Megaevolutions, with the authorisation of the specific Pet Mod admins, we could just import some from the relative spread sheet. In the case they accept, subs will just determine which of the forms introduced by those Pet Mods will be featured also in this one. This also applies to exclusive Z-Moves, and every other mechanic; submissions of mechanichs introduced by dead Pet Mods will just be possible with the right authorisations, not compulsory.
The rules will constrain the distribution of each mechanics among the existing Pokémon, so, unlike GF does with Charizard and Gengar, Pokémon with no special mechanics will have priority on the ones that already have one or more of them. A set of rules will be applied for each type of form-change, as follows:
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all Pokémon, as long as it makes sense and is balanced) Typing: (only one of the types can be changed, little changes affect secondary type, big changes affect primary) Abilities: (must not make the Pokémon weaker) Stats: (a maximum of +80 points can be added to BST, stat changes are restricted to a maximum of ±40 and stats can be swapped) New Moves: (have to be coherent with the new typing) Removed Moves: (optional, for balancing and flavour purpose) Method and Flavour: (justify your form change, by saying when and how it happens) Niche: (explain the competitive use of the form)
Item name: (it can be a new item or an already existing one) New Item? (Yes or No) Effect: (it has to be balanced with the other changes the form gives)
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all Pokémon, as long as it makes sense and is balanced) Typing: (only one of the types can be changed, little changes affect secondary type, big changes affect primary) Ability: (must not make the Pokémon weaker) Stats: (a maximum of +80 points can be added to BST, stat changes are restricted to a maximum of ±40 and stats can be swapped) New Moves: (have to be coherent with the new typing, can include Z-Moves) Flavour: (justify your form change, by saying when and how it happens) Niche: (explain the competitive use of the form)
Move name: (it can be a new move or an already existing one) New Move? (if new, specify all the following) Type: (must be contained in the typing of the original or of the new form) Category: (Physical or Special) Power: (from 0 to 150 BP) Precision: (from -- to 30%) Effect: (it has to be balanced with the other changes the form gives)
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all Pokémon, as long as it makes sense and is balanced) Typing: (only one of the types can be changed, little changes affect secondary type, big changes affect primary) Ability: (must not make the Pokémon weaker) Stats: (a maximum of +80 points can be added to BST, stat changes are restricted to a maximum of ±40 and stats can be swapped) New Move: (have to be coherent with the new typing) Flavour: (justify your form change, by saying when and how it happens) Niche: (explain the competitive use of the form)
Move name: (it can be a new move or an already existing one) New Move? (if new, specify all the following) Type: (must be contained in the typing of the original or of the new form) Category: (Physical or Special) Power: (from 0 to 150 BP) Precision: (from -- to 30%) Effect: (it has to be balanced with the other changes the form gives)
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all Pokémon, as long as it makes sense and is balanced) Typing: (only one of the types can be changed, little changes affect secondary type, big changes affect primary) Ability: (must not make the Pokémon weaker) Stats: (BST must remain the same, stat changes are restricted to a maximum of ±40 and stats can be swapped) New Move: (have to be coherent with the new typing) Flavour: (justify your form change, by saying when and how it happens) Niche: (explain the competitive use of the form)
Ability name: (it can be a new ability or an already existing one) New Ability? (Yes or No) Effect: (it has to be balanced with the other changes the form gives)
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all Pokémon, as long as it makes sense and is balanced) Typing: (only one of the types can be changed, little changes affect secondary type, big changes affect primary) New Move: (have to be coherent with the new typing) Ability name: (it can be a new Ability or an already existing one) New Ability? (Yes or No) Effect: (it has to be balanced with the other changes the form gives) Flavour: (justify your form change, by saying when and how it happens) Niche: (explain the competitive use of the form)
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all Pokémon that aren't main legendary, as long as it makes sense and is balanced) Typing: (only one of the types can be changed, little changes affect secondary type, big changes affect primary) Abilities: (must not make the Pokémon weaker) Stats: (BST must remain the same, stat changes are restricted to a maximum of ±40 and stats can be swapped) New Moves: (have to be coherent with the new typing) Method and Flavour: (justify your form change, by saying when and how it happens) Niche: (explain the competitive use of the form)
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all non-legendary Pokémon, as long as it makes sense and is balanced) Typing: (any type can change) Abilities: (must not make the Pokémon weaker) Stats: (BST must remain the same, stat changes are restricted to a maximum of ±40 and stats can be swapped) New Moves: (have to be coherent with the new typing) Removed Moves: (for balancing and flavour purpose) Flavour: (explain the variant's habitat and living habits) Niche: (explain the competitive use of the form)
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all non-legendary Pokémon, as long as it makes sense and is balanced) Typing: (any type can change) Abilities: (must not make the Pokémon weaker) Stats: (BST must remain the same, stat changes are restricted to a maximum of ±40 and stats can be swapped) New Moves: (have to be coherent with the new typing) Removed Moves: (optional, for balancing and flavour purpose)
New Pokémon: (Evolution's name) Typing: (must share at least one type with the previous evolution) Abilities: (must not make the Pokémon weaker) Stats: (BST must be the same as the original evolution if one exists; if not, the new evolution can have a maximum BST of 535) New Moves: (the ones that the previous evolution doesn't learn, have to be coherent with the new typing) Flavour: (explain the variant's habitat and living habits) Niche: (explain the competitive use of the form)
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all Pokémon that aren't main legendary, as long as it makes sense and is balanced) Typing: (only secondary type can change) Ability: (must not make the Pokémon weaker) Stats: (the total of stats boosts must be 100 or less, stat changes are restricted to a maximum of ±60) New Moves: (have to be coherent with the new typing)
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all Pokémon that are main legendary, as long as it makes sense and is balanced) Typing: (only secondary type can change) Ability: (must not make the Pokémon weaker) Stats: (the total of stats boosts must be 100 or less, stat changes are restricted to a maximum of ±60) New Moves: (have to be coherent with the new typing)
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all Pokémon, as long as it makes sense and is balanced)
Gigantamax Move: (name has to be structured with "G-Max" followed by 1 single word) Type: (must be contained in the typing of the user) Category: (Physical or Special) Power: (from 100 to 150 BP) Precision: (from -- to 30%) Effect: (it has to be balanced and different from the corresponding Dynamax Move)
Pokémon: (this can be applied to all Pokémon, as long as it makes sense and is balanced)
Move: (must fit user's flavour) Type: (must be contained in the typing of the original or of the new form) Category: (Physical or Special) Power: (from 0 to 150 BP) Precision: (from -- to 30%) Effect: (it has to be balanced and different from other moves the Pokémon already learns) Z-Move Power and Effect: (it has to be balanced and different from other moves the Pokémon already learns)
Pokémon[/b]: (this can be applied to all Pokémon, as long as it makes sense and is balanced)
Original move: (must fit user's flavour) Z-Move: (must fit user's flavour) Power: (must fit with original move's BP) Effect: (it has to be balanced and different from other moves the Pokémon already learns)
One overall rule can be that the new formes can get only 1 or 2 of the following:
- new moves
- new ability
- stronger stats
- new typing
As GF seems to follow this pattern.
The author of anything imported from other Pet Mods has to be asked authorisation and to be credited. Also, every Pokémon that already has one or more of those mechanics will be excluded from getting one in this Pet Mod (at least until all of the others get one).
The changes applied must fit flavour mainly. The form can be suited for NatDex OU or Uber tier.
For most of the time, the subs will be 3 things among the ones listed above, so that you can submit a trio, a duo of counterparts and so on. Some slates will be themed though, probably the first one and others that will come later and will feature a group of Pokemon linked to each other, like Plusle and Minun or Suicune, Entei and Raikou.
What do you guys think? Would a Pet Mod like this be too chaotic?
I think constraints can make it work and we can decide them together.
Given the my disappointment with the direction of sword and shield, I want to revisit some ideas I've had in the past.
I'm hoping to do this in showdown so I can set up a server that myself and others can compete on. However whilst I can code I have no idea how to access the showdown platform and modify it, or if this is actual possible.
Ideas are below. Feedback on my proposals or thoughts on what you'd change if you could reinvent the meta game are welcome.
Thanks in advance.
1. More than 2 types - most pokemon could easily have more than 2 types, and doing so we increase versatility in pokemon. My plans are for pokemon to have 3 types.
2. Type order changing effectiveness. To stop x8 being broken, my idea is that type order affects effectiveness. Eg a fire water type would slightly resist grass, whereas a water fire type would be slightly weak to grass. This would allow someone who is weak by 2 types to not be x4 weak making it less crippling.
Possible implementation Type 1 x2 effective x0.5 resist (same as now) Type 2 x1.5 effective x 0.67 resist Type 3 x1.33 effective x0.75 resist
Max effective x4 Max resist x0.25
3. Having more than 4 moves. There might be limits on how many attacking moves you can have / moves might be categorised (could every mon have a hidden power for example, or could attempting to 'dodge' be an option)
4. Having more mega evolutions, evolutions or new mons (including gen 8 mons)
5. Having new moves, hazards, possibly terrains, z-moves or the like. This could include dual type moves like hawluchas's signature move
6. Changing pokemon stats, abilities (and types) to make pokemon more effective. Idea is that more pokemon would be 'ou competitive' as their new typings and changes would make them more viable.
Given the my disappointment with the direction of sword and shield, I want to revisit some ideas I've had in the past.
I'm hoping to do this in showdown so I can set up a server that myself and others can compete on. However whilst I can code I have no idea how to access the showdown platform and modify it, or if this is actual possible.
Ideas are below. Feedback on my proposals or thoughts on what you'd change if you could reinvent the meta game are welcome.
Thanks in advance.
1. More than 2 types - most pokemon could easily have more than 2 types, and doing so we increase versatility in pokemon. My plans are for pokemon to have 3 types.
2. Type order changing effectiveness. To stop x8 being broken, my idea is that type order affects effectiveness. Eg a fire water type would slightly resist grass, whereas a water fire type would be slightly weak to grass. This would allow someone who is weak by 2 types to not be x4 weak making it less crippling.
Possible implementation Type 1 x2 effective x0.5 resist (same as now) Type 2 x1.5 effective x 0.67 resist Type 3 x1.33 effective x0.75 resist
Max effective x4 Max resist x0.25
3. Having more than 4 moves. There might be limits on how many attacking moves you can have / moves might be categorised (could every mon have a hidden power for example, or could attempting to 'dodge' be an option)
4. Having more mega evolutions, evolutions or new mons (including gen 8 mons)
5. Having new moves, hazards, possibly terrains, z-moves or the like. This could include dual type moves like hawluchas's signature move
6. Changing pokemon stats, abilities (and types) to make pokemon more effective. Idea is that more pokemon would be 'ou competitive' as their new typings and changes would make them more viable.
Given the my disappointment with the direction of sword and shield, I want to revisit some ideas I've had in the past.
I'm hoping to do this in showdown so I can set up a server that myself and others can compete on. However whilst I can code I have no idea how to access the showdown platform and modify it, or if this is actual possible.
Ideas are below. Feedback on my proposals or thoughts on what you'd change if you could reinvent the meta game are welcome.
Thanks in advance.
1. More than 2 types - most pokemon could easily have more than 2 types, and doing so we increase versatility in pokemon. My plans are for pokemon to have 3 types.
2. Type order changing effectiveness. To stop x8 being broken, my idea is that type order affects effectiveness. Eg a fire water type would slightly resist grass, whereas a water fire type would be slightly weak to grass. This would allow someone who is weak by 2 types to not be x4 weak making it less crippling.
Possible implementation Type 1 x2 effective x0.5 resist (same as now) Type 2 x1.5 effective x 0.67 resist Type 3 x1.33 effective x0.75 resist
Max effective x4 Max resist x0.25
3. Having more than 4 moves. There might be limits on how many attacking moves you can have / moves might be categorised (could every mon have a hidden power for example, or could attempting to 'dodge' be an option)
4. Having more mega evolutions, evolutions or new mons (including gen 8 mons)
5. Having new moves, hazards, possibly terrains, z-moves or the like. This could include dual type moves like hawluchas's signature move
6. Changing pokemon stats, abilities (and types) to make pokemon more effective. Idea is that more pokemon would be 'ou competitive' as their new typings and changes would make them more viable.