Since your modeling this after ViAbilities, shouldn't new pokemon get access to the moves? Especially ones that make thematic sense?Planning to propose this when submission thread reopens, so I would like any feedback.
Pet Mod: Bust a Move (name is WIP)
Pet Mod Concept: Like how ViAbilities seeks to buff all abilities to have some use in singles competitive, this mod seeks to make every move (that is not a weaker version of an already good move) competitively viable in singles on at least one Pokemon.
PP: 15 (max 24)
Secondary Effect: None-> High critical hit ratio.
Explanation: This mod will be based on NatDex because I feel giving the mod access to more move-users will make the stated mission of this Pet Mod easier to achieve. However, we will have an occasional foray into Ubers since there are several moves in need of a buff that are exclusive to mons in that tier (ie Aeroblast, Eternabeam). Not counting a few restrictions, submitters will be free to take the move in any direction they like in order to make it viable. They may choose to either make it generally useful, or may choose to buff it in a way that specifically works in tandem with (a) specific mon(s) (ie making BP just enough to be useful on a Technician mon); if they choose they latter option, however, they will be required to specifically list at least one user they have in mind. While buffs should try to stick to the generic flavor of the move, we won't be too restrictive about flavor so as to encourage more creativity with buffs (as long as they don't go completely off base). As seen in the example, submissions will list the basics of the move, highlighting any changes made; it doesn't have to be exactly like that, but submitters do need to clearly state any changes. Some rules I have thought up:
1. Submitters may not change the move's designation (physical, special, status) and will only be allowed to change its type if specifically deemed acceptable by the leaders/council. There are a few cases (such as the 20 or so multi-hit Normal moves) where changing typing may be necessary to differentiate a move or ensure a move doesn't violate Rule 2. This will be determined on a case by case basis, and any type change does still need to reflect the moves' flavor.
2. Moves may not be buffed in a way that would make them a clone of a pre-existing move or make an already good move obsolete. The latter half of this rule is to prevent the mod from being locked in an eternal cycle where our buffs end up forcing us to buff other moves. As for the former half, I want to refrain from just copying pre-existing moves, as that may not give the buffed move a chance to really stand out (also I'd find that really boring). This is why we're probably not going to bother with weaker versions of already good moves like Mega Drain, since it'd be hard to buff that without invalidating Giga Drain. I'd also like to avoid making a move "this move but a different type" unless it's already the different-typed counterpart to another move we end up buffing.
3. Moves may not be given a specific effect when used with a particular mon. This would be both arbitrary and basically cheating, so no "x move does this particular thing when Rhyperior uses it" for instance.
4. Moves must be balanced and not involve uncompetitive tactics. Pretty simple. In some cases, users may be expected to nerf certain aspects of moves in order to keep it balanced (for example, the recharge moves will likely end up losing some BP considering recharge will be removed as a factor). An effect like lowering accuracy or freezing is only permissible if the move already does that.
5. Move distribution will only be changed as a last resort. Depending on how certain buffs turn out, it may be necessary to change the distribution of certain moves so as to give these new moves a chance. However, this will likely be banned in the initial planning phase and only permitted if the move still struggles to find relevance.
While I am still mulling over how to segment slates, my current idea is that each slate will focus on buffing moves from certain categories based on why they are unviable (ie a recharge move slate, a Doubles move slate, an exclusive move slate), which I feel would be a good balance between giving submitters lots of options without the thread just devolving into chaos. This is the part I am least sure of, so I would especially like feedback on how I should handle submission slates and voting (how many will be chosen per slate, how many revised moves each user can vote for). I will probably restrict self-voting to second at most. Another thing I'm unsure of is how to handle "second-place moves"- moves that only see serious use because they're a mon's only option (Swift on Regeleki, for instance); I don't think it's fair to forbid those moves from being buffed, but it may be hard to segment them without being arbitrary.
I do want a council for this mod, as I feel the competitive aspect would benefit from multiple perspectives and I'd like things to stay on track in case I'm unavailable. Also, I'm not very good at programming, so I'd definitely need help with that. I'm not making any final decisions on other council members yet, but I intend to start looking once the thread is open or sooner.
I like the idea, but imo this pet mod is perfect to be called "Döppelganger".Countermon
Didn't think of that. I think that shiny locking in any way will be ingnored, so things like Anti-Keldeo and Anti-Zacian can exsist, and move locking would also be ignored.I like the idea, but imo this pet mod is perfect to be called "Döppelganger".
Only a question that it come in my mind, but what happenens at shiny locked moves? For example jirachi can use moonblast only if shiny, and it's a good set, but when it is shiny it won't use moonblast because it will be its doppelganger so what will happen?
So first of all, I think the name of types, items, moves and abilities should be discussed in disc or something similar. For example, if Smack Down and Bulldoze are fused into a 60bp ground move that can hit airborn targets and removes their ground immunity, a name like "Bulldown" wouldn't be as good as a name that fits what the move does better like "Sand Drop". Or if there is a fusion of Sandstorm+Rain Dance, instead of making the name something like "Sand Dance", it could be named "Mud Storm" and summon a new mud storm weather. While it might be part of the mod to have random names, I think it'd be more fun if the name were decided by the players and fit the new move or item better.A lot of parts of this are unfinished, and it's definitely not going to be perfect right now. This has the potential to be a really crazy mod though, which might make it either one of my best ideas or one of my worst.
EXTREME ROULETTEMONS (this name is in all caps and can only be referred to in all caps)
So the basic idea for Roulettemons is that the Pokemon are randomized within Pokemon's template. Only the Pokemon themselves are randomized - their moveset, set of abilities, stats, and typing. EXTREME ROULETTEMONS does all of that and randomizes even more by removing everything and adding 10 new types, 112 new moves, 100 new abilities, and 15 new items. This mod has A LOT of potential problems, I guarantee you that someone will have at least one criticism for the idea in its current state, but I'm going to go over everything I can here.
First, the processes for getting types, moves, abilities, and items, some of which I don't have...
Quite possibly the part of the process that can go the most wrong, but at the same time, I think the most important part is going to be what Pokemon get accepted. For this, I'm going to be adding 10 types with a chart like the one I have below...
View attachment 317196Looks meaningless, right? Don't worry, I'll explain and show what this all means in another picture. Each number is generated between 1 and 36. The types on the top are attacking and the side are defending. If a number is 1 to 6, that's a strong matchup. If a number is 31 to 35, it's a weak matchup, and if it's 36 then the defending type is immune. It's cut in half so that if a type beats another type, it does so both offensively and defensively so the types that are meant to check others can truly do so. If Red beats Green offensively for example, then Red is super effective on Green AND Green is resisted by Red. Also, as a sort of failsafe to prevent anything too insane, I made it so that if a type has no winning matchups, they're manually given a winning matchup against the type with the least losing matchups relative to their winning matchups, and vice versa. In addition, the tenth type (White in this case) is meant to be a neutral type if possible. There will be universally-learned moves, and most of them will be given this type.
The type chart and rule above give the following output (approximarely, I may have made a few mistakes)...
View attachment 317386
Even with the rule in place, there are some strong and some weak types. Green is only strong against one type, and Red is only weak to two types that have no other strong matchups. I think this is a good thing, though, since it'll keep all types from feeling samey. The bad types could be balanced by being attached to good Pokemon and vice versa.
As for the names of the types, colors are just meant to be placeholders, although they could genuinely be used in the final product. I have a few ideas for how to go about this. The aforementioned colors can be attached to just about any name and are easy to sprite, with gray and black being colors I intentionally left out because they could be used to accent the Pokemon's main color. I could get a bunch of types from random object/adjective generators (which gave me such classics as Football, CD, Fabulous, and Light), but it'd probably be way harder to design so many of those and I'd have to completely rethink how I'd name those. We could also just get 10 existing types for familiarity and possibly to make coding easier, but it might be very offputting and annoying for newer players to get used to having Normal beat Grass or something.
The Moves and Abilities
Lumping these two together. For these, I'll combine two randomly-generated abilities or moves, with unviable attacking moves being rerolled. The names of both will just be a spliced version of the two (like Heal Pulse + Shock Wave becomes Heal Wave, Magic Guard and Water Absorb becomes Magic Absorb etc). EVERYTHING ELSE about both moves and abilities will be determined in a similar vein to FE abilities. I may either do all of these myself, or if there's interest in this, some people can volunteer to do some of each of these. The process will be continued until there's 10 of each type, plus 10 more of the neutral type as universal moves. In addition, there will be 2 more universal moves that are NOT randomly made and will match the user's primary and secondary type respectively while going off the user's higher attacking stat. They'll probably be around 90 or 100 base power as well. That way, nothing's going to have STAB issues.
For an example of randomized moves and abilities for those not on the Discord or involved in FE, here are a few of each below...
View attachment 317367
Side note - this mentions Sandstorm, new weathers and statuses can be made. Moves will be done before abilities, so Sandstorm may not even be in the final game. If you get Sandstorm + Hydro Pump, then you could create like "Very Harsh Rain" from those. You can also make things like new entry hazards given it makes sense with the moves.
This is what I don't know. Maybe weakening the effects of random abilities? I'm gonna need your input on that.
Potential Changes From Roulettemons
- Base Roulettemons had all Pokemon at 600 BST, and I might change this. I think the current range I had was even numbers between 485 and 540, with the additions of 570 and 600.
- Since there are 20 unviable moves per Pokemon in base Roulettemons, and there are no moves that should be designed to be unviable here, the EXTREME ROULETTEMONS will have only 20 viable moves.
- What should I do for items?
- How should I go about setting the type chart? Should I just get a new random one, should I take one of the examples here, or should I do a starting slate with five options that get voted on?
- How should I get the type names? Should I do the colors, random objects or adjectives, or just randomize 10 existing types? If anyone has any other ideas there other than the ones I mentioned, let me know.
- My biggest worry is that this metagame would be way too hard to theorycraft for with everything being brand new. Would that be the case? Would this metagame be too difficult to get into for the idea to be worth it?
- Do any of my processes seem flawed in any way?
- Does this meta sound like a good idea in general? Is there anything you can add that I missed, or do you have any other question?
I'm certain that there are going to be problems with this but I want to iron them out if possible. Just let me know if you think this is an idea worth working with, and if so, how it can be improved.
It sounds too random and too inconsistent to the point it would end up restricting teambuilding instead of promoting them. For example, I doubt people would want to use weather-dependent abilities like Swift Swim if there is no way to get rid of the permanent Sandstorm or Sun, for example, and if there is no guarantee that the next match will have permanent rain.I was recently thinking about how I really like permanent weather conditions, and had an idea for a Pet Mod metagame: Extreme Weather! The rules of extreme weather are simple. all of the basics of regular battles apply, but with a twist: a random weather condition will be in effect throughout the match. For example, it might be that rain is in effect for a match, and then for the next match, a sandstorm is present. In addition to this, weather-changing moves and abilities have no effect, in order to prevent teams simply getting rid of the weather if it doesn't favour them. The idea is that players have to make teams that can weather any conditions they are subjected to (pun not intended). I was also thinking of creating some custom weather conditions to add to the current pool, but i haven't yet decided whether to do so. Please let me know if you like the idea, if you have any criticism or suggestions, or if you want to add your own thoughts on custom weather conditions!
i see your point. My thinking was that because there is no certainty of what the weather might be, people would be forced to play around it, and to ensure their team can win in whatever weather condition is provided. i think perhaps custom weather conditions would make it a more unique meta, so i will work on some of those and then re-evaluate once i have some good onesIt sounds too random and too inconsistent to the point it would end up restricting teambuilding instead of promoting them. For example, I doubt people would want to use weather-dependent abilities like Swift Swim if there is no way to get rid of the permanent Sandstorm or Sun, for example, and if there is no guarantee that the next match will have permanent rain.
Another example being discouraging use of Focus Sash and Sturdy, as there is a chance that the random weather will ruin it through passive damage. While this means the weather wars is fully prevented, it also cause massive discouragement for weather-dependent items, Abilities and moves.
That would work better if the summoned weather through move and Ability still works, but the permanent weather will restore as normal once the duration runs out.
I think that your idea works better as an OM than a Pet Mods personally. That said, a Pet Mod that would focus on creating custom weathers/terrains, and reworking mons to summon/benefit from those and maybe creating weather exclusive moves/abilities (like Swift Swim or Aurora Veil) could be a very fun idea if you want to stay in the theme of making teams that benefit from weathersi see your point. My thinking was that because there is no certainty of what the weather might be, people would be forced to play around it, and to ensure their team can win in whatever weather condition is provided. i think perhaps custom weather conditions would make it a more unique meta, so i will work on some of those and then re-evaluate once i have some good ones
i was wondering whether it'd count more as an OM actually, so thank you for pointing that out. I might work on 2 variants: an OM one, and a pet mod one with custom weathers. it's still in early stages, so i have plenty of room for adjustmentsI think that your idea works better as an OM than a Pet Mods personally. That said, a Pet Mod that would focus on creating custom weathers/terrains, and reworking mons to summon/benefit from those and maybe creating weather exclusive moves/abilities (like Swift Swim or Aurora Veil) could be a very fun idea if you want to stay in the theme of making teams that benefit from weathers