Pokémon Pheromosa

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Do u know Gale Wings got nerfed and SR exists and dat no1 would like their Pheromosa to stay in on a talonflame on full hp with gale wings ._.?
I'm very aware it got nerfed. Talonflame is designed to ohko anything in the core that fat DaKakz posted and that's all it's designed to do. Hell, that's even why it has Acrobatics over Brave Bird.
 
I'm very aware it got nerfed. Talonflame is designed to ohko anything in the core that fat DaKakz posted and that's all it's designed to do. Hell, that's even why it has Acrobatics over Brave Bird.
While Gale Wings nerf sucks horribly, Talonflame is still fast with 126 base speed. Specially Defensive set still can check some crucial parts of this metagame. Swords Dance is also doable with this speed. Bulk Up is something I have no idea how it would work in this meta, but I think it's usable. Only set which I feel is really hopeless now is Choice Band, which is a shame, but I think this guy still may have some niche in this metagame, especially if most broken stuff goes away, although it still can switch on stuff like Pheromosa (x2 Fighting resist, x4 Bug resist, may need more Def based EVs though), Heatran (needs Taunt though and forces PP stalling), Charizard-Y, some versions of Aegislash, Genesect without Thunderbolt (x4 resist on bug is cool and x2 Steel), Kartana (x4 Grass resist, x2 Steel resist), Volcarona, etc. Decidueye and some other things. It won't be OU anytime soon, but it has some niche. If you really don't want Talonflame, defensive Moltres may do something similar, but it's much slower.
 
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The number of hard checks / counters to this thing is basically limited to Aegislash, Toxapex, Weezing (lol); a couple of odd mons like Chandelure and Alolan Marowak due to their oddly specific resistances; and certain mons with extreme physical bulk investment (Mega Scizor could work). Otherwise, you're essentially forced to find a way to hit it with priority, which can be stopped cold if Pheromosa is running with Tapu Lele on its team. Pheromosa is just busted to hell and needs banning very quickly.
 
While Gale Wings nerf sucks horribly, Talonflame is still fast with 126 base speed. Specially Defensive set still can check some crucial parts of this metagame. Swords Dance is also doable with this speed and if you are scared of priority, Tapu Lele fix this problem really easy, so loosing priority on Brave Bird doesn't hurt as much. Bulk Up is something I have no idea how it would work in this meta, but I think it's usable. Only set which I feel is really hopeless now is Choice Band, which is a shame, but I think this guy still may have some niche in this metagame, especially if most broken stuff goes away, although it still can switch on stuff like Pheromosa (x2 Fighting resist, x4 Bug resist, may need more Def based EVs though), Heatran (needs Taunt though and forces PP stalling), Charizard-Y, some versions of Aegislash, Genesect without Thunderbolt (x4 resist on bug is cool and x2 Steel), Kartana (x4 Steel resist, x2 Steel resist), Volcarona, etc. Decidueye and some other things. It won't be OU anytime soon, but it has some niche. If you really don't want Talonflame, defensive Moltres may do something similar, but it's much slower.
First, Tapu Lele does not protect Talon from priority because Talon is airborne, and is hence not affected by the terrain.

Second, bulky sets in general are forced to sacrifice speed or power in order to do their job, and lose out to a good chunk of the Pokemon that, in ORAS, they would have checked. Losing priority Roost makes Talon vulnerable to Scarfers and mons with priority, and the same goes for BU and SD sets.
 
First, Tapu Lele does not protect Talon from priority because Talon is airborne, and is hence not affected by the terrain.

Second, bulky sets in general are forced to sacrifice speed or power in order to do their job, and lose out to a good chunk of the Pokemon that, in ORAS, they would have checked. Losing priority Roost makes Talon vulnerable to Scarfers and mons with priority, and the same goes for BU and SD sets.
I derped with flyers, this is what I get when I type this stuff tired -_-. And I agree that it is vulnerable to scarfers and priority, but it's still really fast, so pulling it off is doable. It's not top-tier anytime soon, but it's doable. And certainly Talonflame isn't utterly useless as it may have some niche uses.
 
Pheromosa is so cancerous right now, I have Sun so I didn't get her packaged with the game, and I do have my favorite pokemon Weavile and I still can't check her. Her typing makes her immune to High Priority threats like Scizor and Weavile, and Gale Wings is pretty shit now, a single damage and your talonflame doesn't check her anymore.

Also, her base stats are so high, she Outspeeds both Mega Gengar and Mega Alakazam, hits just over Mega Loppuny and Mega Manetric, which is boderline retarded IMO, while having some of the best move pool with her Bug/Fighting check, just missing some Psychic Moves.

This needs to be banned out, oh and ban out Aegi pls, this is still too strong
 
Honestly been thinking this is top tier but not completely busted because it's forced to run max speed most of the time and I felt buzzwole is more broken based on better overall coverage/options.

But then I found out it has poison jab, likly to much for the meta that'd overflowing with fairies then.

But I've been playing stall with it as a Lando counter thanks to that fastest non locked ice beam ever
 
Slowbro-Mega 1 shots it with Psyshock and can take infinite hits from it, healing up with slack-off.
We gonna sit here and act like Bug buzz isn't a viable option of Pheromosa?
This thing has plenty of moves to choose from, so while yes, Mega Slowbro can "tank" a U Turn, it doesn't mean its a blanket check for every Pheromosa, and you and I know damn well you are never switching it in. Didn't know infinite translated to 1. Call the math majors, we have a definite value for infinity.

Then again. . .

It's also Mega Slowbro, so I'm not taking your statement too seriously.
 
People do realise this thing gets Fling right? Start serving Aegislash and Marowak 100 BP fossils to the face!

While Aegislash can King's Shield and switch (which won't debuff as Fling doesn't make contact) something still is going to take a 100 BP dark move at best, or if you predict the switch you can hit them with something hard. Either way, I feel like this was the nasty edge Pheromosa needed - it's not like it's particularly desperate for items to increase its offensive power.
 
Pheromosa is so cancerous right now, I have Sun so I didn't get her packaged with the game, and I do have my favorite pokemon Weavile and I still can't check her. Her typing makes her immune to High Priority threats like Scizor and Weavile, and Gale Wings is pretty shit now, a single damage and your talonflame doesn't check her anymore.

Also, her base stats are so high, she Outspeeds both Mega Gengar and Mega Alakazam, hits just over Mega Loppuny and Mega Manetric, which is boderline retarded IMO, while having some of the best move pool with her Bug/Fighting check, just missing some Psychic Moves.

This needs to be banned out, oh and ban out Aegi pls, this is still too strong
Just catch a Toxapex -_-
 
I think Game Freak knew very well what they were doing with Pheromosa; it has incredible offenses, but is literally paper in terms of defense. Heck, Gosliopod's First Impression takes off 2/3rds of it health. And that's a RESIST. Sharpedo has better defenses than this thing. And that's a mon famous for being paper. Basically, you're not taking ANY neutral hit with this.

But when you're a glass cannon, you're also a cannon. Those U-turns are pretty ridiculous, and with something this fast, it's going to be painfully obvious when a team's not built well enough. It's hard to take control of momentum with this still around on an opponent's team, leading to some pretty rough situations. And it also has a good Special set, too. I hear Buzzwole crying softly now.

So how do you actually go about dealing with an offensive monster if all it's going to do is gain momentum on you, and then KO everything you hold dear? You got to hold on with some defense. Fighting is the more important resistance here, as Hi Jump Kick seriously hurts.
First of all, Mega Slowbro is NOT an answer. Thing is very weak to U-turn, not to mention Bug Buzz, and will take full advantage of your folly for thinking so. Setting up rocks is also great, as it's guaranteed damage on this whenever it comes in. Tokapex can take addition advantage of this, as it has both Toxic Spikes and Baneful Bunker to wear Pheromosa down much better.

In addition to some of the others mentioned (Skarmory is good for the physical variants, and Alolan Marowak is just great in general; hardly a niche mon), we also have Gosliopod, which can't be 2HKOed by it, and take it down with 2 priority hits.
Gyarados is really good; while it is worn down by rocks (defog is a good move), it resists both STABs from Pheromosa, and can OHKO back if it foolishly decides not to U-turn. It's also a special mention for forming a fearsome core with Alolan Marowak, only sharing a rock weakness.
And we have Jellicent. Yep. Go ahead and (not) use it all you like.
Though I feel not many mons really need to go this soon, Pheromosa is right after Genesect on my personal chopping block, much for the same reason. (The only thing putting Genesect ahead is its sheer versatility. Thing's a mythic for a reason, Smogon...)
(P.S. Before you ask, Alolan Marowak isn't a hard counter to Genesect. A Water type Techno Blast is brutal against it...)
 
Anyone notices that this thing hits like Adaptability Mega Lucario?

Here some calcs:

Lucario
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 202-238 (50.7 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 216 HP / 196+ Def Garchomp: 222-262 (54 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.6 - 57.6%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO


Pheromosa
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 203-239 (51 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 216 HP / 192+ Def Garchomp: 226-266 (54.9 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 164-192 (49.2 - 57.6%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
 
Just did some calcs on various popular (and some unpopular because new meta, why not?) priority attacks vs this thing...

(I gave Pheromosa a Naive nature, as there is pretty much 0 special priority)

252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 177-209 (62.5 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 216-255 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 173-204 (61.1 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 81-96 (28.6 - 33.9%) -- 1.4% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 145-172 (51.2 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 255-301 (90.1 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 171-202 (60.4 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 231-273 (81.6 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
44 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 204-240 (72 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 256-303 (90.4 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 136-161 (48 - 56.8%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 198-234 (69.9 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(I did not bother to check Pinsir, as it is 4x effective and WILL kill it)

Also. For kicks and what-ifs.
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 171-202 (60.4 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Oh dear...not even +atk 252 Aegislash is capable of killing her before she U-Turns right out.
And another one.
252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 146-172 (51.5 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yes, this was with Dugtrio's atk boost.

To all those saying Pheromosa is frail. Yes, she is frail, but not frail enough to warrant the kind of speedy offensive bull she brings to the table in exchange.
 
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Agile Turtle

formerly aqueous tortoise
I always carry a focus sash on this thing lol.

Usually I run Modest/Rash rather than Timid/Naive though for a boost to special attack instead of speed. It makes it so that it can't outspeed many megas it would be able to if it were + speed but it still annihilates either way so I'm alright with that.

It also has access to quiver dance, as if it needed any further way to boost its stats.

You can run 252 SpA / 252 Spe and a modest nature with Quiver Dance / Bug Buzz / Focus Blast / Ice Beam and muscle past everything (bar aegislash). It's fun to use, although half the time I don't even set up quiver dance, it's still nice to have the option.
 
For all the "look at how weak it is" - which is kind of a weird argument seeing as I think these threads normally celebrate the pokemon - it's just fundamentally a boring thing for the meta. Sure, people can pack checks, and get through those paper thin defences - but like as not those same defences always need to be packed to deal with it. In that way, it's centralising - and let's see what happens in terms of suspecting or banning.

But to shy away from a ban argument, as they are filthy taboo, this pokemon deserves 5 stars - what a cool guy.
 
To get away from the ban talk (which I mostly agree with, for the record), here's a cool set that I'm enjoying while I can (in the pre-bank meta):



Pheromosa @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 32 Atk / 228 SpA / 248 Spe (OR 44 Atk / 216 SpA / 248 Spe)
Mild Nature
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Ground] (OR [Electric])
- Ice Beam

I've seen people experimenting with similar lure sets, but this is what I've settled on for the moment. Right now Pheromosa is very much feared when it comes to teambuilding, and thus fast Megas like Zam and Scarf users that hit 438 Speed and below aren't used very much because Naive/etc. Pheromosa easily outspeeds, reducing their effectiveness as revenge killers. As such, you can currently get away with a neutral nature, giving you just enough Speed to outpace Ash Greninja, and more relevantly, Tapu Koko. 130-150 is pretty much a dead zone anyway. Mild is my nature of choice because it tanks Scald from Toxapex better. The choice of spread comes down to whether you want SpA boosts or Spe boosts with Beast Boost -- both have their merits. Speed is helpful since you're not running a +Spe nature, but Special Attack can facilitate a sweep much easier.

The moveset utilizes Phero's standard strength through powerful U-turn moment + High Jump Kick, just with a bit less investment. I opted for these moves over a full special set due to their reliability (I will never use Focus Blast unless I have to) and mixed wall-breaking power. The real draw of this set is Hidden Power, which muscles through common checks. The choice between Ground and Electric picks your counters, but Ground seems better in the current Meta, as it handles Aegi + Maro. Electric handles Pelli + Mantine. Both handle Toxapex. Calcs:

228+ SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 143-169 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
228+ SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Marowak-Alola: 161-190 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
228+ SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 135-161 (41.6 - 49.6%) -- 27% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (requires prior damage/lack of Shadow Sneak)
228+ SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 218-260 (58.2 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
228+ SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Pelipper: 348-411 (107.4 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (lol)

This set is a little more prediction heavy than the standard set, but it can plow through teams that rely on the above Pokemon to check Pheromosa over simply using revenge killers. Ice/Electric and Ice/Ground are both solid coverage combos, so you can often clean teams without touching your STABs except to U-turn around. Aside from the common checks above, you'll often find this added coverage coming in handy against unexpected foes, like Goliospod. I've been using small tweaks on this set on the Gen 7 OU ladder and am currently 9-0 for this new alt.

Here's my first match on the alt, where I beat Toxapex 1v1 and then wipe through Buzzwole and the rest of the team:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-482628706

Here's another lowish ladder replay that shows the potential of the set (Electric variant). My opponent wasn't the best, but you can see how I can clean with only my special moves, including Goliospod:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-482634504

For reference, in all my other matches, Pheromosa just did what it always does, U-turning around for massive damage and threatening opponents with High Jump Kick and coverage, so the replays aren't worth showing for the purpose of this thread. And that's the point -- you can almost entirely play this set like normal Phero except when your coverage is needed. I encountered Mega Alakazam once, and all I had to do was cover it with another member of my team (in this case, the similarly busted Aegislash). The lack of Poison Jab is definitely noticed when it comes to revenge killing full health Tapus, but again, you just need to cover them in different ways through other team members.

I still think the standard set remains the most consistent and effective, but in the current metagame, where every player is terrified of this thing and throws on Toxapex and Marowak with no second thoughts, this Mild lure set can effectively clean late game by breaking common walls. It can especially be effective if paired with something else that struggles with Pokemon that take on Pheromosa, like Magnezone in the case of Alolan Marowak. Give it a shot!
 
I've been struggling to put any kind of work in with Pheromosa when I reached the higher parts of the ladder.

It seems really underwhelming here just because every team has like 2 full counters.

Had to switch to a team not using it and I've gotten way more success with that.

Probably an incredibly contrarian opinion but until Aegislash gets banned it's average at best imo, without Aegislash it's pretty obviously going to be busted though.
 

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
To get away from the ban talk (which I mostly agree with, for the record), here's a cool set that I'm enjoying while I can (in the pre-bank meta):



Pheromosa @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 32 Atk / 228 SpA / 248 Spe (OR 44 Atk / 216 SpA / 248 Spe)
Mild Nature
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Ground] (OR [Electric])
- Ice Beam
Forgive me but why would you ever run 248 speed on anything? Surely you might as well add the last 4 EVs on? The 4 Atk/SpA can't really do anything that significant just by the nature of damage roll variation. Still, I think using HP ground looks like an excellent idea, and I'm certainly going to try it. Not sure if giving up +Spe is a good idea even if it does secure those 2HKOs. I guess Lopunny doesn't exist any more, but Mega Zam and Scarf Xurkitree still seem somewhat significant.

Anyway, I'm finding this thing surprisingly manageable at the moment, and not overwhelmingly good in my own hands either. Aegislash, Toxapex and Marowak are just amazing all-round Pokemon, and deal with the sets I'm seeing incredibly well. I'm pretty sure I would be running one of those on my teams even if Pheromosa were gone.
 
People are crying about this and the metagame hasn't even been defined yet. Give it at least 6 months. It's good but it's terribly frail (for crying out loud Pikachu has better defences lololol) and when the Pokebank becomes available in January, a lot of pkmn are going to be able to shut it down. Charizard X/Y, Ferrothorn, Scarfchomp for example will have a field day with it.
 
Forgive me but why would you ever run 248 speed on anything? Surely you might as well add the last 4 EVs on? The 4 Atk/SpA can't really do anything that significant just by the nature of damage roll variation. Still, I think using HP ground looks like an excellent idea, and I'm certainly going to try it. Not sure if giving up +Spe is a good idea even if it does secure those 2HKOs. I guess Lopunny doesn't exist any more, but Mega Zam and Scarf Xurkitree still seem somewhat significant.

Anyway, I'm finding this thing surprisingly manageable at the moment, and not overwhelmingly good in my own hands either. Aegislash, Toxapex and Marowak are just amazing all-round Pokemon, and deal with the sets I'm seeing incredibly well. I'm pretty sure I would be running one of those on my teams even if Pheromosa were gone.
Mostly to keep the Speed low enough to Beast Boost SpA but high enough to outspeed Greninja-A by one point while still putting a few points in Atk. Probably worth running 252 if you want to boost Spe with BB, but afaik the only thing that does is tie with other neutral Pheros.
 
People are crying about this and the metagame hasn't even been defined yet. Give it at least 6 months. It's good but it's terribly frail (for crying out loud Pikachu has better defences lololol) and when the Pokebank becomes available in January, a lot of pkmn are going to be able to shut it down. Charizard X/Y, Ferrothorn, Scarfchomp for example will have a field day with it.
Huh? FYI, those pokemon are all already available. The Charizard megas get U-turned on, Ferrothorn gets blown back by HJK, Scarfchomp is pretty obvious (and EQ doesn't kill while Ice Beam does) and can be scouted.
 
This thing is crazy. It's so incredibly fast and it gains momentum so easily with U-turn, which coming from Pheromosa is pretty strong. It also hits hard as hell with High Jump Kick and between U-turn and crazy strong High Jump Kicks, this thing literally shits on slower teams and gains momentum easily. Beast Boost means it boosts its own Speed every time it gets a kill and this makes it even harder to deal with. It even has good coverage with Ice Beam and has good Special Attack too, not to mention it can even run special sets. Not gonna say whether it's broken or not but it's an EXTREMELY good Pokemon. It's definitely one of the most prominent threats in this relatively new metagame as it stands.
 
I've been using Pheromosa in VGC on showdown and my favorite move set to use is:
-Ice Beam
-U-Turn
-Low Kick
-Protect
Ability: Beast Boost
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Naive
EVs: 244 Atk, 12 SpA, 252 Spe

So Ice Beam is very good against the old threats, Salamence and Garchomp, as well as OHKOing Katarna granted none of these targets have a Focus Sash. Other targets like Aerodactyl and Tapu Bulu take considerable damage from Ice Beam. I did at first want to use Lunge instead of U-Turn, but then I realized with Pheromosa's low defenses, it would attract offensive pressure and there are still things that this move set cannot counter, so in these cases, pivoting out would be necessary (still hits like a truck tho). U-Turn works well against many TR users that Pheromosa could avoid by switching, like Oranguru, and Low Kick is a safer way to go than Hi Jump Kick in my opinion, with Protect running amok and such. Low Kick does nice damage to Gigalith, Snorlax, and decent damage to Porygon2 (extra damage if my Muk can use Knock Off beforehand). For my team, Pheromosa pivoted out of battle and switched into either Alolan Muk or AV Tapu Fini, both of which sponged attacks headed our way. Some edits I was thinking of were Poison Jab to better handle Tapu Lele or Expert Belt since the little extra health Pheromosa would spare could help against Earthquakes from Garchomp and such. Feel free to make edits to the set, I want to hear your thoughts on this!
 
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