Pinsir [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

[Panda]

Calcs time.

Klefki
252 Atk Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Klefki: 210-248 (66 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Klefki: 125-148 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Klefki: 41-48 (12.8 - 15%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Verdict: Pinsir won't be able to beat Klefki with either option before it gets Thunder-Waved.

Mega Mawile
+1 252 Atk Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 308-364 (101.3 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 185-218 (60.8 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 246-290 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 307-362 (100.9 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 80-94 (26.3 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pinsir: 237-280 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pinsir: 141-167 (51.8 - 61.3%)
Verdict: Without EQ, Pinsir risks the OHKO by Play Rough.  However, if you predict a Sucker Punch then you can attempt another SD for a clean OHKO with +3 CC.  It should be noted that what I just said applies for a situation where regular Mawile switched in on a SD and then Mega evolved.  Should Mega Mawile switch in on the SD having previously mega evolved, then it risks a OHKO from +2 CC.

Heatran
252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 284-336 (87.9 - 104%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 284-336 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 46-55 (11.9 - 14.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Verdict: Heatran cannot take on Pinsir, except if it has a scarf and switches in on Return/Quick Attack.  Even if Close Combat on the switch doesn't OHKO Scarf-tran, Quick Attack will do the lava monster in.

Magnezone
252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 264-312 (81.4 - 96.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 264-312 (93.6 - 110.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Verdict: Magnezone gets wrecked by Close Combat + QA.

Mega Aggron
+2 252 Atk Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 160-189 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 192-226 (55.8 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+4 252 Atk Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 240-283 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+4 252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 288-339 (83.7 - 98.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0+ Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pinsir: 162-192 (59.5 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0+ Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Pinsir: 244-288 (89.7 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Verdict: Pinsir needs EQ and SR to take on Mega Aggron (SD on the switch in, followed by two Earthquakes), and even then it needs Mega Aggron to lack Rock Slide.  Attempting to do the same with Close Combat means Pinsir risks the OHKO by Heavy Slam.

Jirachi
+2 252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 298-351 (87.3 - 102.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Pinsir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 498-586 (146 - 171.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Jirachi Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pinsir: 174-206 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Jirachi Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pinsir: 118-140 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Verdict: Close Combat + QA can beat Scarf-rachi, but not always if Pinsir is at half-health.  Pinsir w/ CC loses to SubCM Jirachi.

Metagross
+2 252 Atk Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 396-468 (108.7 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 238-280 (65.3 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 197-232 (54.1 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Pinsir: 213-252 (78.3 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Metagross Bullet Punch vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Pinsir: 94-112 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pinsir: 142-168 (52.2 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pinsir: 64-76 (23.5 - 27.9%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Verdict: Earthquake is the better option.  If Pinsir uses CC, it gets picked off by Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch.  However, a full-health Pinsir can beat Metagross if it uses Return instead of CC.

Carbink
Verdict: No calcs necessary.  +2 Pinsir 2HKOs Carbink no matter which option, and Carbink can't hit back hard enough with Moonblast.

Mega Ampharos
+2 252 Atk Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 476-562 (123.9 - 146.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 286-337 (74.4 - 87.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Ampharos Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pinsir: 404-476 (148.5 - 175%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Verdict: Earthquake is needed to reliably beat Mega Ampharos.  6.3% chance to OHKO with +2 CC isn't good enough.

Mega Manectric
-1 252 Atk Pinsir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 198-234 (70.4 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 119-141 (42.3 - 50.1%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manectric: 224-264 (79.7 - 93.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 39-46 (13.8 - 16.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
Verdict: If Manectric has already mega evolved before switching in, then Pinsir can only beat it with EQ on the switch followed by QA.  However, regular Manectric cannot switch into +0 CC as it will be picked off by QA on the next turn.  Pinsir always loses if it uses SD or Return on the switch in.

Raikou
252 Atk Pinsir Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 316-372 (98.1 - 115.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 189-223 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Verdict: Pinsir only wins if it uses EQ on the switch-in.

Thus, from the above we can gather that...

-Pinsir absolutely needs Earthquake to take on: Aegislash, Mega Aggron, Mega Ampharos, Raikou, and Doublade.
-Pinsir can get get away with CC to take on: Heatran, Magnezone, Metagross (using +2 Return instead of +2 CC), and Carbink.
-The choice of EQ vs CC is iffy when dealing with: Mega Mawile (depends on when it mega evolved), Jirachi (depends on set), and Mega Manectric (depends on when it mega evolved).
-Pinsir loses either way to: Klefki (Pinsir will always be crippled).

And yeah, I noticed at the last second that I accidentally did my calcs with 4/0 Pinsir instead of 0/0 Pinsir. Doesn't really make a difference, though.

 

[Ash Borer]

Overall Earthquake is superior, other than the Balloon issue that it faces. I'd say don't bother slashing CC, but a handy usage tip is that scouting for balloons and defeating them is instrumental to success with Pinsir

 

[Panda]

There are only two common situations where Earthquake is without-a-doubt superior to CC. Meanwhile, CC can replace EQ in dozens of situations and still get the job done, in addition to hitting certain things that Earthquake can't. Would you please elaborate more as to why this doesn't warrant Close Combat a slash on the main set?

Also, here are some more calcs.

+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 354-418 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 295-348 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Pinsir at +2 needs Close Combat to guarantee a clean OHKO vs Ferrothorn. Even with SR, Return doesn't always OHKO.

252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 180-212 (74.3 - 87.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 148-175 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 58-70 (23.9 - 28.9%) -- 96.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
With CC, Pinsir is guaranteed to take out Cloyster with CC on the switch, followed by QA. This can't be done with just Return/QA unless SR is down.

252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 171-202 (56.6 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 141-167 (46.6 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 55-66 (18.2 - 21.8%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
Mega Aerodactyl, which would normally force a switch, is 2HKOed by CC + QA +SR.

252 Atk Pinsir Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 214-254 (69.9 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pinsir Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 258-304 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 42-50 (13.7 - 16.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
Scarf Tyrantrum isn't even guaranteed to be 2HKOed by EQ + QA + SR, but CC + QA does so without SR's help.

 

[Jukain]

I don't quite get the Cloyster match-up because aren't you gonna SD on something you force out (because Cloyster is switching into you otherwise you're doing it wrong)? The chance on Ferrothorn is enough, especially since it switches in earlier in the game to get up hazards and thus takes damage anyways. In my experience, Ferrothorn is typically in Return guaranteed OHKO range, after SR anyways. And you can run a layer of Spikes to seal the deal easily.

On Tyrantrum -- given 74% damage from the EQ (medium low roll) and SR, it has lost 86.5%, after which Quick Attack is a guaranteed KO, even with a minimum roll. If you roll average (say 14.5% on Quick Attack) then EQ can deal 73% and you'll still net the KO. So, if you get two average rolls, or a low roll and a high roll, then, Tyrantrum is dead. Has it switched in before? It's dead with EQ + QA + SR. Are any Spikes up? It's dead. That's good enough IMO.

Megadactyl is the only Pokemon against which you may come out better, but considering how often it is paired with a Defogger, SR may not even be up. If it is, then indeed CC would allow you to beat it, whereas you obviously cannot with EQ.

However, the Megadactyl scenario alone is not worth it to me, when lowering your Defense puts you in range of all kinds of priority depending on how high your health is. The Defense lowering is a dealbreaker for me, especially since EQ is better in 99% of scenarios.

 

[Sinical]

I honestly think close combat is almost required on M Pinsir and at the very least should be slashed. Please note for all the following I will be assuming that M Pinsir managed to get off a sword dance earlier and is adamant nature (Which is another preference of mine, but not really motivated enough to go into that as well.

Rotom-w is by far the most common check that I have come across playing M Pinsir and being able to deal with anything but a fully invested def/hp rotom is such a nice thing to have. This by itself should be enough for it to be slashed when considering the current popularity of rotom.

As mentioned, balloon users, most notably heatran and excadrill don't really care about EQ but don't like taking a close combat to the face.

ttar/mega ttar. +2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 350-412 (86.6 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO. Yeah, even a +2 EQ isn't enough to guarantee a OHKO against M ttar and an unboosted CC is enough.

Aegislash: Is not a good enough reason to take EQ IMO, and is only a problem if M pinsir has taken 25% or more damage (Which is admittedly very possible). But due to the different forms and kings shield it's harder to show this. Between SD/king shield this matchup honestly comes down to out predicting, but what we can say is.

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 175-207 (64.3 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO,

Aegislash cannot OHKO, and is unlikely to even after SR. (This was done without a life orb though, a life orb + SR combination would be enough). Meanwhile, a return from Pinsir followed by QA would be enough to kill

+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 191-225 (58.9 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 184-217 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

But as I mentioned, this turns into a SD/shield prediction match. If Pinsir predicts right and sword dances when aegislash uses kings shield, then you have a +4 Mega pinsir, can OHKO with return and then kill practically anything with quick attack.

So yes, earthquake is the much safer option. But Aegislash can be dealt with if you're at high HP. Prediction in this matchup can win you the match or lose you your mega for nearly free.

Mega aggron: CC/EQ doesn't actually matter either way here as you're not going to OHKO it. The key thing is to use return first and THEN close combat. You get the defence decrease but otherwise it's on par with EQ and is certainly not a "must".

Now maybe I'm just crazy, but I've been seeing a hell of a lot more rotoms and ttars than I have mega ampharos', which from my quick calculations I just ran through seems to be the only one where EQ is actually required. Sure it's never optimal to lose defence, but M Pinsir can sweep teams with a +2 without taking a hit as long as a few specific checks are out of the way.

 

[Unowninator]

No mention of X-Scissor?

 

[Fuzznip]

Treecko

Are you still planning on writing this? You have 24 hours to respond.

 

[ryan]

Yeah my bad Fuzznip. Forgot all about this, but it's written now.

 

[MattL]

I definitely think Frustration should be mentioned and possibly even in the set itself because there are no downsides to using it and you slightly disadvantage opposing Ditto, for which Mega Pinsir is a great Pokemon to transform into. Actually, one possibly very circumstantial downside is running into 0 happiness Ditto who run 0 happiness for Pinsir with Frustration, but in general, I think Frustration might be a better option than Return.

 

[dice]

that's literally a prebattle coinflip and it's pointless to mention

 

[nu nu X]

Feint on Mega Pinsir is the best thing since sliced bread. I've been using it and it brakes through those Toxic stallers who tend to try and spam Protect. It's also excellent for outspeeding +1 priority pokes and revenge killing them. My opinion is that it at least deserves a slash next to Quick Attack.

 

[Prinz]

Maybe Feint in OO? Im too lazy to check if it's already there, if so sorry me. However its a bit weaker than Quick Attack but it allows to get past of weakned Talonflame which would otherwise revengekill Pinsir. Not that good but not that bad either imo, it has still its good things.

 

[6feetunder]

Maybe Feint in OO? Im too lazy to check if it's already there, if so sorry me. However its a bit weaker than Quick Attack but it allows to get past of weakned Talonflame which would otherwise revengekill Pinsir. Not that good but not that bad either imo, it has still its good things.

feint is in OO already

 

[thatgirl]

Though situational, I think it should be mentioned that Feint also bypasses spiky shield/king's shield without activating their negative effects.

 

[Thorhammer]

Though situational, I think it should be mentioned that Feint also bypasses spiky shield/king's shield without activating their negative effects.

Against Aegislash, you'd still want to use EQ unless it's seriously wounded, since it also doesn't risk an Atk drop and does about six times as much damage if it connects.

 

[skies]

I have one question, is there a reason to use Return > Frustration? It may seem little, but Ditto can come in and revenge you, but with Frustration, it has no issues with this. As Frustration has 1 Power for Ditto.

 

[legs]

I have one question, is there a reason to use Return > Frustration? It may seem little, but Ditto can come in and revenge you, but with Frustration, it has no issues with this. As Frustration has 1 Power for Ditto.

See above: pointless prebattle coinflip

 

[Arfenond]

Just a detail in the team option, it says: " Some of Mega Pinsir's best counters are things that can lure in its checks and counters."

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

Isn't 4 hp better bulk on both sides than 4 def?

 

[Swamp Link]

Isn't 4 hp better bulk on both sides than 4 def?

4 HP makes its HP an even number, which will make it take more damage from Stealth Rock so it can only switch in as a Mega once. With 4 Def, you take just under half from rocks.

 

[Alter]

Team Options
- "Some of Mega Pinsir's best counters" --> "teammates"
- Genesect is now banned so you can replace its mention with any different Pokemon you see fit (or remove that bit altogether). edit: Ash's idea of Gothitelle fits well here.

Checks and Counters
- You can call "Walls that resist Flying and Ground" something along the lines of "Defensive Type Advantage"

QC APPROVED 3/3
Good job. You can send this to the GP team to check when you are ready.

edit: I agree with Scarf Tyranitar for C&C and ash's minor usage tips edits.

 

[Ash Borer]

This needs to be brought up to date. The usage tips are fine, but Breloom and Landorus-T rarely if ever lack a rock-type move in this meta. Better chances to set up would be against physical attakcers that lack super effecitve moves and boosting items like ASsault Vest Azumarill, Air Baloon Excadrill or more passive walls without super debilitating status moves like Venusaur or Chansey. Pinsir's Bulk is something else it can even set up against dread plate Bisharp o_o

Team options has Genesect, that needs to be removed of course. ALso, add Gothitelle. A standard specs set of Psychic / Thunderbolt / Energy Ball easily traps and destroys skarmory, mandibuzz, rotom-w, and hippowdon who all can be trouble for Pinsir if it at full strength. Psychic does a ton to zapdos as well considering itn eeds to be physically defensive to counter Pinsir.

Also add scarf Tyranitar to C&C its a good set partly for the reason that it easily checks Pinsir

 

[Charro]

I'd add spD Heatran as a good teammate for M-Pinsir as it can easily deal with the likes of Zapdos, Skarmory, Bronzong (lacking EQ), and even lure Rotom-W and get either a burn or Toxic it (can also toxic talonflame), Tyranitar also doesn't enjoy burns. Effectively crippling or just outright killing most Pinsir's counters and checks.

 

[Ash Borer]

Treecko

pls respond

 

[ryan]

oh hi my b
you nigs need to tag me more often if you want me to get shit done

I'll responderino to you Ash Borer soon if there's anything you posted that I want to comment on, if not I'll just do everything and ask for a thumbs up before I send it to GP