Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

There literally was competitive PvP in Gen 1 though. There were official tournaments and everything.
They literally put out the first version of Stadium to accommodate this.

There's a reason I said we know they were thinking about it when developing gen 2, with interviews and/or emails I'm pretty sure!
Then I don't know if feeling old, dumb, or both at same time.
It's fine i'll take the L for dumbness and having been like not even 18 at the time

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Has anyone a list of moves removed from Paradoxes out of those that come from the lost type?
Edit: That's fucking unclear, did some.
Matching moves found in learnset(s) for Slither Wing, !Volcarona:
Aerial Ace, Dual Wingbeat, Earthquake, First Impression, Heavy Slam, Lunge, Poison Powder, Sandstorm, Stomp, Stomping Tantrum, Stun Spore

Matching moves found in learnset(s) for Volcarona, !Slither Wing:
Absorb, Air Cutter, Air Slash, Amnesia, Calm Mind, Double-Edge, Fly, Harden, Light Screen, Poison Jab, Pounce, Psychic, Quiver Dance, Rage Powder, Screech, Solar Beam, String Shot, Struggle Bug, Tailwind
Can't find an explanation for those.
 
pachirisu gets Gunk Shot via TM

y tho
This is a fun one.

Gunk Shot’s description is that the user specifically hurls garbage. Maybe Junk or Debris Shot would have been a better name as according to Bulbapedia the literal Japanese translation is “Dust Shoot”. Reads less sewage-y to me than gunk does but anyway.

The distribution then seems based on a few factors:
- Is the Pokémon a Poison type? Pretty obvious.
- Can the Pokémon forcibly throw things or fire off physical projectiles? I think this is where all the primates* as well as things like Octillery, Mantine (if we go with a Remoraid is a missile joke), Cinderace, and Genesect go.
- Is the Pokémon associated with garbage? This might seem obvious for Garbordor, but it also includes Woramadam Trash Cloak and another fun one: Bannette. It’s a discarded doll, with a few of its dex entries associating it with landfills. Sad!
- Is the Pokémon associated with hoarding/greed? Most of these Pokémon have Pickup as an ability in their lineage so this is why Pachirisu gets Gunk Shot. Pelipper and Hoopa also fall into the category of hoarders. Dedenne and Greedent notably do not get Gunk Shot (the former is a Fairy type; the latter only hoards food?), and a few post-Gen 4 Pickup users don’t. Lillipup and Greavard are absolute quadrupeds so can’t throw things, Tandemaus applies the KonMari Method of Pickup so it doesn’t accumulate enough trash to throw, and Gourgeist…idk it’s a trick or treat joke.

And that’s my dissertation on Gunk Shot. tl;dr majority of mons with Pickup learn Gunk Shot.

*I choose to rise above the poop jokes and yes I know Rellor is looking at me stop looking at me
 
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Fling. Just. The list of mons that learns it naturally includes some relatively clear choices, such as Primape and Passimian, but also things like Chansey, Pelipper, and Zigzagoon. And plenty of mons that should be able to throw things(Machamp, Barbaracle) only get it through TM. Meanwhile, Grapploct can't learn it by TM, but Flamigo can.

Also, Squakabilly doesn't learn it, which is what started me on this.
 

Celever

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Fling. Just. The list of mons that learns it naturally includes some relatively clear choices, such as Primape and Passimian, but also things like Chansey, Pelipper, and Zigzagoon. And plenty of mons that should be able to throw things(Machamp, Barbaracle) only get it through TM. Meanwhile, Grapploct can't learn it by TM, but Flamigo can.

Also, Squakabilly doesn't learn it, which is what started me on this.
IDK if you slipped up and put the other relatively bad bird introduced this gen (which would be understandable) but the gen 9 mon who should have Fling and doesn't is absolutely Bombirdier. The thing is Dark-Type and its whole design concept is flinging rocks LMAO.

Fling has been discussed in this thread a couple times before IIRC and its distribution is essentially full random.
 

Blitz

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Psyshock is a move that's been discussed here before. It's just another alternative to Psychic that's been spread out across not only Psychic-types, but also stuff like Fairies, Ghosts, and stuff that typically employs what you'd expect from a psychokinetic attack; from Golduck, to Porygon-Z, to Spiritomb, to even Alcremie. None of that is super surprising given the move's flavor, and barring some weird exceptions (like Celebi not getting it), it seems standard fare in its distribution.

Gen IX kept this up, limiting the move once again to stuff like Psychics, Fairies, and Ghosts. Armarouge, Scream Tail, Gholdengo,



and Great Tusk.
 

Karxrida

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Psyshock is a move that's been discussed here before. It's just another alternative to Psychic that's been spread out across not only Psychic-types, but also stuff like Fairies, Ghosts, and stuff that typically employs what you'd expect from a psychokinetic attack; from Golduck, to Porygon-Z, to Spiritomb, to even Alcremie. None of that is super surprising given the move's flavor, and barring some weird exceptions (like Celebi not getting it), it seems standard fare in its distribution.

Gen IX kept this up, limiting the move once again to stuff like Psychics, Fairies, and Ghosts. Armarouge, Scream Tail, Gholdengo,



and Great Tusk.
It's attempting to inflict mental damage for making a form of Donphan good.
 
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Pikachu315111

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Pidgeot, Fearow, Dodrio, Ditto are the same
Farfetch'd, Scyther, Pinsir, Onix kept it as Sp A and got a higher SpDef
Dugtrio, Sandslash has a lower SpA and keeps it as Sp Def

Hitmonlee also kept it as Sp A and got an obscene Special Defense out of it.
Being none got the combination of "kept as SpD; got better SpA", it would very much seem to confirm the theory it was indeed a dump stat for the Pokemon seen to be mostly physical just so they could have a defense against Special moves.

But now I'm curious how they came up with the other "Special" number: Did they decide on it from having to come up with another number or did they first decide the Pokemon's new BST and used the increase amount as the other Special stat number (and gave the one that was higher to the Special Defense stat). Probably a mix of both, though I'm leaning toward the latter.

Though even then we have some oddball cases like Farfetch'd BST no longer ending in a 0 or 5 but a 2 cause its Special Defense was given 2 extra points. Don't know why they didn't give it 5 or 10 extra points if they felt the Special Defense was still too low (compared with the Special Attack).

Then I don't know if feeling old, dumb, or both at same time.
I'd say jaded (which is a mix of old, though not dumb, maybe a bit of naivete). Gen I was long ago and its easy to take things it did for granted. A new hit game by a relatively unknown developer which quickly became a massive franchise nearly overnight. It's only naturally to assume in the early days that GF would be tripping themselves over as they got used to their new position and had to just start pivoting the game to have a balance focus from its seemingly JRPG setup. However, while many Pokemon have their stats set up to align with a JRPG scaling, in truth there was a balance in trying to make most Pokemon feel unique (even if they didn't fit their role well). The game came with a PvP feature after all, and would also likely impact the trading aspect.

Has anyone a list of moves removed from Paradoxes out of those that come from the lost type?
So I looked at Volcarona/Slither Wing/Iron Moth (the other Pokemon aside from Donphan to get both a Past & Future version, though each version replaces one of its Types), Jigglypuff/Scream Tail (only basic stage to get a Paradox form, specifically a Past version), and Gardevoir/Gallade/Iron Valiant (only Pokemon to be a combination of two, specifically as a Future version). My conclusion: A headache. Like, obviously they took inspiration from the original Pokemon, but what they stripped away and if they replaced it with something feels individually decided (along with if they mixed some moves around). It's not a simple case of them just replacing all of Volcarona's Fire moves with Fighting ones for Slither Wing and Bug moves with Poison for Iron Moth, they personalized the movesets based on the concept of it being a more savage/robotic Pokemon.

Fling has been discussed in this thread a couple times before IIRC and its distribution is essentially full random.
So what you're saying that, to decide what Pokemon got fling, they wildly flung darts at a wall of names and whatever Pokemon got a dart in their name got Fling. I guess that's on way to decide things...

Psyshock is a move that's been discussed here before. (...)

Gen IX kept this up, limiting the move once again to stuff like Psychics, Fairies, and Ghosts. Armarouge, Scream Tail, Gholdengo,



and Great Tusk.
Well it's Japanese name is "Psycho Shock" and it did gore a member of the expedition team, I'd certainly call that psycho.

Jokes aside, um, let's see, well a lot of changes done to it has to do with its head area. Greater tusks, red spikes on its tread trunk, intense eyes, even its ears become frilled. Psyshock's description says the user materializes an odd psychic wave to physically attack the target. Now had it been a normal Pokemon it would still seem odd to five it Psyshock, but being a Paradox Pokemon I would give it the benefit of the doubt of having some odd power. Great Tusks' #1 goal is wanting to hurt you, and with the power that brought it into existence, it can now do this just by thinking of how much it wants to hurt you.
 
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Ok I need help with this one, why is Endure learned by 95% of the Pokémon in Paldea and why is Iron Treads unable to?
Endure is learned by 95% of Pokemon in general, to the point where bulbapedia instead lists the ones who DONT learn it when it's available as a TM/TR/Tutor. It's just in that realm of move where they decide its something available to everyone.

That said I have no answer to why Iron Treads can't learn it. It might genuinely be a mistake on the developers part (to the point where bulbapedia doesn't actually list it in the list of ones who cant learn it, oops!).
 

Yung Dramps

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So this one is cheating, because it's not a movepool oddity: It's an ability oddity.

Out of the 7 fully evolved Pokemon in existence with Sand Rush, 3 of them are dogs, those being Stoutland, Lycanroc and Houndstone. Two of those otherwise have no "geological" flavor of note. In addition, Lycanroc is the only Rock type with the ability, which really stands out to me considering Sandstorm already directly buffs Rock types, so you'd think more of them would get an ability that synergizes with it.

Is this a pun lost in localization, like how Huge Power's Japanese name is why it's only given to rabbits? Is there some other association between dogs and sandstorms I am not aware of?
 

Karxrida

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So this one is cheating, because it's not a movepool oddity: It's an ability oddity.

Out of the 7 fully evolved Pokemon in existence with Sand Rush, 3 of them are dogs, those being Stoutland, Lycanroc and Houndstone. Two of those otherwise have no "geological" flavor of note. In addition, Lycanroc is the only Rock type with the ability, which really stands out to me considering Sandstorm already directly buffs Rock types, so you'd think more of them would get an ability that synergizes with it.

Is this a pun lost in localization, like how Huge Power's Japanese name is why it's only given to rabbits? Is there some other association between dogs and sandstorms I am not aware of?
Presumably it's because dogs are stereotyped as digging holes in gardens? I guess?

It's a stretch but it's all I can think of.
 
So this one is cheating, because it's not a movepool oddity: It's an ability oddity.

Out of the 7 fully evolved Pokemon in existence with Sand Rush, 3 of them are dogs, those being Stoutland, Lycanroc and Houndstone. Two of those otherwise have no "geological" flavor of note. In addition, Lycanroc is the only Rock type with the ability, which really stands out to me considering Sandstorm already directly buffs Rock types, so you'd think more of them would get an ability that synergizes with it.

Is this a pun lost in localization, like how Huge Power's Japanese name is why it's only given to rabbits? Is there some other association between dogs and sandstorms I am not aware of?
Well Houndstone literally digs in & out of the ground (because its a spooky zombie ghost), which is close enough to sand for these purposes.

Stoutland I always handwaved as a reference to its rescue behavior; its a hardy dog that can take care of people in harsh situations thanks to its thick fur. If it had come a few generations earlier I kind of think it should have gotten Slush Rush instead, but Sand Rush works too.


Incidentally I like that they aren't rock/ground but get this ability; it grants them Sandstorm immunity and offers something other than rock/ground/steel trifecta.



Also while I know Houndstone can be found in a lot of places i keep running into it all over the damn mountain and it probably should have gotten Slush Rush too since this MAY AS WELL BE ITS NATURAL HABITAT
 

Pikachu315111

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Is this a pun lost in localization, like how Huge Power's Japanese name is why it's only given to rabbits? Is there some other association between dogs and sandstorms I am not aware of?
I looked up Sand Rush's Japanese name ("Sunakaki", which literally translates to "Sand Paddle") but didn't really turn up anything other than this Ability. Being the literal translation is "Sand Paddle", in addition to the "dogs like to dig" connection maybe there's also a connection to the "doggy paddle"?

Also while I know Houndstone can be found in a lot of places i keep running into it all over the damn mountain and it probably should have gotten Slush Rush too since this MAY AS WELL BE ITS NATURAL HABITAT
Something odd here, and it could be just Bulbapedia being weird on how they translate things. While the names of the Abilities match in both English (Sand Rush/Slush Rush) and the Japanese spelling ("Sunakaki"/"Yukikaki"), while Sand Rush is literally translated to "Sand Paddle", Slush Rush is translated as "Snow Removal".

While at first I was willing to write it off as Bulbapedia being weird, when I looked up the terms in Google things got interesting. As I said above "Sunakaki"/"Suna Kaki" really only turned up the Sand Rush Ability for Pokemon. BUT when I typed in "Yukikaki"/"Yuki Kaki", I got pictures and translation sites of snow shoveling or snow plows.

I'm wondering if maybe "Yukikaki" is the original word, used to specifically refer to snow digging, and GF just replaced "yuki" with "suna" to make it about sand digging.
 
I looked up Sand Rush's Japanese name ("Sunakaki", which literally translates to "Sand Paddle") but didn't really turn up anything other than this Ability. Being the literal translation is "Sand Paddle", in addition to the "dogs like to dig" connection maybe there's also a connection to the "doggy paddle"?



Something odd here, and it could be just Bulbapedia being weird on how they translate things. While the names of the Abilities match in both English (Sand Rush/Slush Rush) and the Japanese spelling ("Sunakaki"/"Yukikaki"), while Sand Rush is literally translated to "Sand Paddle", Slush Rush is translated as "Snow Removal".

While at first I was willing to write it off as Bulbapedia being weird, when I looked up the terms in Google things got interesting. As I said above "Sunakaki"/"Suna Kaki" really only turned up the Sand Rush Ability for Pokemon. BUT when I typed in "Yukikaki"/"Yuki Kaki", I got pictures and translation sites of snow shoveling or snow plows.

I'm wondering if maybe "Yukikaki" is the original word, used to specifically refer to snow digging, and GF just replaced "yuki" with "suna" to make it about sand digging.
When talking about Paradox names (& some other abilities and moves) elsewhere there's a thing where the literal reading is not the intended reading and bulbapedia isn't very good at catching these nuances sometimes.
 
After doing some digging around about すなかき and ゆきかき, it appears to simply be a word for shoveling through dirt/sand and snow (砂掻き got me results for gardening rakes, plows, and a comic about cats digging in litter boxes for fun, among other things). Dogs are adept at digging through dirt and would be a natural fit for the ability. That appears to be the main basis for it being distributed to multiple dog lines. What I don't get is why Dracovish and Dracozolt get it...there is nothing about them that seems adept at digging or otherwise working with dirt and sand.

When talking about Paradox names (& some other abilities and moves) elsewhere there's a thing where the literal reading is not the intended reading and bulbapedia isn't very good at catching these nuances sometimes.
What do you mean by this with the Paradox Pokemon? The katakana literally tells readers how to read the names, and the Chinese names have exactly equivalent names as the kanji given by Bulbapedia. And the official website even offers the Japanese kanji names for the Paradox Donphan too, which match up as expected. I'll dunk on Bulbapedia any day, but my personal translations of the Paradox names are essentially the same as their own. Everything I'm seeing points to the names being their intended reading with no wordplay involved.
 

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What I don't get is why Dracovish and Dracozolt get it...there is nothing about them that seems adept at digging or otherwise working with dirt and sand.
This may be a bit of help here, I'm not sure of it myself, but the thing with the Galar fossils is that they are literally an artificial abomination of a hybrid of two different creatures combined into one Pokémon.

Dracovish and Dracozolt in particular get their "Draco" half from their body, which is half of a presumed Stegosaurus creature. Dracovish has a Dunkleosteus head attached to the end of the Stegosaurus tail while Dracozolt has a Velociraptor head attached to the severed body front of the Stegosaurus body.

Both of them definitely get their Sand Rush ability from the "Stegosaurus" half. It's like how Arctozolt and Arctovish also share the Slush Rush hidden ability, which is presumably from their body portion (don't know what that is based on, possibly a plesiosaur but idk).

I think that's worth pointing out. You would have to look into stegosaurus behavior to explain that for them, even though Dracovish and Dracozolt themselves don't seem to exhibit behavior related to it, the fact that they are scientific abominations made as hybrids between two different creatures means they likely still carry over traits from both creatures.
 
This may be a bit of help here, I'm not sure of it myself, but the thing with the Galar fossils is that they are literally an artificial abomination of a hybrid of two different creatures combined into one Pokémon.

Dracovish and Dracozolt in particular get their "Draco" half from their body, which is half of a presumed Stegosaurus creature. Dracovish has a Dunkleosteus head attached to the end of the Stegosaurus tail while Dracozolt has a Velociraptor head attached to the severed body front of the Stegosaurus body.

Both of them definitely get their Sand Rush ability from the "Stegosaurus" half. It's like how Arctozolt and Arctovish also share the Slush Rush hidden ability, which is presumably from their body portion (don't know what that is based on, possibly a plesiosaur but idk).

I think that's worth pointing out. You would have to look into stegosaurus behavior to explain that for them, even though Dracovish and Dracozolt themselves don't seem to exhibit behavior related to it, the fact that they are scientific abominations made as hybrids between two different creatures means they likely still carry over traits from both creatures.
Sand Rush for Draco- was likely picked to contrast with both Arcto- mons getting Slush Rush. While gen 9 goes for dinosaur->sun, Chlorophyll probably wouldn't have worked flavour-wise.

It's kind of odd to me that the unique abilities for the galar fossils are in regular slot 2 with the body-associated one as HA. I would have figured that since slot 1 is used for the head-associated ability (water/volt absorb), there would have been more emphasis on the symmetry.
 
The Galar Fossils are very clean with what each part provides.
Base: 90/90/90/70/70/55, most of the back-end stuff (gender ratio etc)
Draco: 20 Speed, Sand Rush, Dragon type
Arcto: 10 SAtk, 10 SDef, Slush Rush, Ice type
Vish: 10 Def, 10 SDef, Water Absorb, 2 Def EVs, Water type
Zolt: 10 Atk, 10 SAtk, Volt Absorb, 2 Atk EVs, Electric type

I refuse to go through the movesets, but they're fairly obvious as well. In a series characterized by inconsistent counterparts(this thread says hello), they really were careful about keeping these 4 exactly in-line with each other.
 

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