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Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

Pikachu315111 said:
Um...
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Yes I am stupid :facepalm:

Let me change what I said so the topic moves on and noone notices!

"Gen 4 introduced Arceus, and they likely wanted to keep its type-changing move as his unique trait, then in gen 5 they decided it might be worth to experiment with it more, first with event Mythicals, and later even giving such moves to vanilla Pokemon like for example Oricorio or Type Null in gen 7"
 
Looking at the distribution for Dragonbreath, one thing jumps out at me: Growlithe and Arcanine get it via TM in Gen II.

Now that in itself isn't so strange: Dragon has long been an ambiguously-defined type, and Dragon Tamers in facilities like the Battle Tower will routinely carry mons like Gyarados and Sceptile alongside "real" dragons. Several vaguely Dragonish species such as Archeops, Lapras, and Onix get the move. However, it's odd seeing Arcanine get it via TM given that numerous Dragon-aligned species *don't* get it. Off the top of my head, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Ampharos, Feraligatr, Arbok, and even Meganium are all more suited to Dragonbreath than Arcanine is.

What's the rationale behind Arcanine learning it? Was it just because its Pokedex classification is "legendary"?
 
green_typhlosion said:
That's less about it having any connection to the Dragon type and more to do with Pulse moves being associated with aura. It also learns Heal Pulse which does not remotely seem like an appropriate choice for such a martial and offensive Pokemon.
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Lucario's whole gimmick is Aura and the mental/spiritual side of fighting, so it would make sense to have a psychic-like move set. Calm Mind, Life Dew, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Role Play, Mind Reader and Zen Headbutt reflect this. Aura Sphere in general should have more distribution among Psychic types. Mew, Mewtwo, Celebi and the Lati@s get it, but no other Psychic types like Gardevoir (Gallade gets it) or Alakazam.
 
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Imperial Magala said:
Aura Sphere in general should have more distribution among Psychic types. Mew, Mewtwo, Celebi and the Lati@s get it, but no other Psychic types like Gardevoir (Gallade gets it) or Alakazam.
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Unfortunately I think the issue with Aura Sphere is that they do not want to give around the accurate special fighting type move.
Hell it took until this gen to have more than a handful of pokemon to even learn it.

It's evident they want to keep Focus Blast as "the" Special fighting coverage, with actual special oriented fighting types usually getting a signature move or Aura Sphere itself. It makes sense to some degree, as "special" and "fighting" is a pretty weird association (same for rock type), it's types you generally associate with phisically strong pokemon or phisical type attacks.
 
Worldie said:
Unfortunately I think the issue with Aura Sphere is that they do not want to give around the accurate special fighting type move.
Hell it took until this gen to have more than a handful of pokemon to even learn it.

It's evident they want to keep Focus Blast as "the" Special fighting coverage, with actual special oriented fighting types usually getting a signature move or Aura Sphere itself. It makes sense to some degree, as "special" and "fighting" is a pretty weird association (same for rock type), it's types you generally associate with phisically strong pokemon or phisical type attacks.
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A bunch of special Pokemon andalso Hitmonchan & Hitmonlee (but NOT hitmontop)
 
R_N said:
A bunch of special Pokemon andalso Hitmonchan & Hitmonlee (but NOT hitmontop)
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Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee are definitely special enough for the move. The first time you’ve been able to encounter even their pre-evolution Tyrogue in the wild is SwSh. No Hitmons have ever been catchable as a “normal” Pokémon. This is the same criteria for Togekiss learning it probably; you can only use one if you hatch a gift egg, which is very rare.

The real “unspecial” Pokémon to get the move (excluding Mega Launcher Pokémon) is Mienshao. Even though it totally fits thematically, it’s very much a Pokémon you just encounter in the wild, and is the only example of this in Aura Sphere’s users.
 
Celever said:
Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee are definitely special enough for the move. The first time you’ve been able to encounter even their pre-evolution Tyrogue in the wild is SwSh. No Hitmons have ever been catchable as a “normal” Pokémon. This is the same criteria for Togekiss learning it probably; you can only use one if you hatch a gift egg, which is very rare.

The real “unspecial” Pokémon to get the move (excluding Mega Launcher Pokémon) is Mienshao. Even though it totally fits thematically, it’s very much a Pokémon you just encounter in the wild, and is the only example of this in Aura Sphere’s users.
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I am not 100% sure but I think with "special" he actually just meant "Special attack based" :psynervous:

...most of which are basically Legendaries, Mythical, part psychic fighting types, or have some connection with aura (why does Togekiss get this again?)
 
Worldie said:
I am not 100% sure but I think with "special" he actually just meant "Special attack based" :psynervous:

...most of which are basically Legendaries, Mythical, part psychic fighting types, or have some connection with aura (why does Togekiss get this again?)
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Yes I meant special in the special attacking sense, not the other interpretation.

Honestly I think the entire reson these two (because, again, hitmontop did not get the move) got the move is as a joke.
They have 35 base special in gen 1 which was turned into special attack in gen 2-on and, in what I can only presume was ALSO a joke at the time, given 110 special defense.
hitmontop just stole those stats after its creation, these two just seem to be gamefreak having a laugh.

They dont have the lowest special attack for a fighter pokemon (Sawk & Throh are, at 30) and they dont have the highest special defense for a fighting pokemon (there's sevearl by this point) but they're the only one with such a disparity. Hitmonchan was also the only pokemon to natively learn Vacuum Wave, the special attacking version of Mach Punch, despite having no reason to ever use it in DP.
At some point it just starts to feel like giving Shedinja Final Gambit
 
R_N said:
Yes I meant special in the special attacking sense, not the other interpretation.

Honestly I think the entire reson these two (because, again, hitmontop did not get the move) got the move is as a joke.
They have 35 base special in gen 1 which was turned into special attack in gen 2-on and, in what I can only presume was ALSO a joke at the time, given 110 special defense.
hitmontop just stole those stats after its creation, these two just seem to be gamefreak having a laugh.

They dont have the lowest special attack for a fighter pokemon (Sawk & Throh are, at 30) and they dont have the highest special defense for a fighting pokemon (there's sevearl by this point) but they're the only one with such a disparity. Hitmonchan was also the only pokemon to natively learn Vacuum Wave, the special attacking version of Mach Punch, despite having no reason to ever use it in DP.
At some point it just starts to feel like giving Shedinja Final Gambit
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Let's not forget that it took until 3 generations after their introduction for Hitmonchan's identity as as a punching mon to give it physical instead of special coverage.
 
R_N said:
in what I can only presume was ALSO a joke at the time, given 110 special defense.
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They were given 110 SpD more out of necessity than a joke. Their original BST in Gen I was 345. All Pokemon were being given BST boosts due to them adding another Special stat in Gen II. For the Hitmons not to lag behind in the BST department, but it making no sense for them to have such a high Special Attack stat, they were sort of pushed to keep their SpA at 35 and bulk up their SpD to where they wanted their BST to be (which apparently was 455).
 
Pikachu315111 said:
They were given 110 SpD more out of necessity than a joke. Their original BST in Gen I was 345. All Pokemon were being given BST boosts due to them adding another Special stat in Gen II. For the Hitmons not to lag behind in the BST department, but it making no sense for them to have such a high Special Attack stat, they were sort of pushed to keep their SpA at 35 and bulk up their SpD to where they wanted their BST to be (which apparently was 455).
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universe where hitmonchan got a 110 special attack: world peace, flying robo cars, pristine environment
 
DrumstickGaming said:
Bisharp can't learn Rock Slide, but it can learn Rock Tomb and Stone Edge. Huh?
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Not totally related to this, but there are a few more Pokemon with odd tendencies like this.

Excadrill for one, despite being a Ground AND a Steel-type, can learn Rock Slide and Rock Tomb, but is incapable of learning Stone Edge.

Kommo-o is also a Dragon that is capable of using Flamethrower, but not Fire Blast. Especially amongst the pseudos, Metagross notwithstanding, it is the only one in the group with this tendency, since all of the other draconic/reptilian pseudo-legendaries can learn both Flamethrower and Fire Blast, leaving Kommo-o an oddity.
 
Magnus0 said:
Why does Rattata learn flame wheel? It's the only non-fire type (excluding galar Darumaka) to learn it, and it does from gen 2 onward. Meanwhile, Magmar only got it in gen 8
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It came from The Tale of the Bambo Cutter, where Princess Kaguya lists 5 impossible tasks for her suitors to complete, 1 of them being obtaining a robe made from Chinese fire-rat skins.
 
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