Not hitting the 80% screech check isNo amount of swiftness will prevent you from hearing my dirty secrets sir
(honestly sound-based moves having perfect accuracy doesn't exactly strike me as odd, how do you dodge words?)
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations
- Thread starter Kurona
- Start date
(honestly sound-based moves having perfect accuracy doesn't exactly strike me as odd, how do you dodge words?
Actually I think R_N has it with the "sound tunnel" thing, at least for most of the attacking moves. Sound moves are more treated like a directed sonic weapon than really a loud spreading sound. Categorizing them by context:
Sound Explosion/Shockwave: Boomburst, Overdrive, Shadow Panic, Sparkling Aria
Sonic Beam/High Frequency: Bug Buzz, Chatter, Clanging Scales, Clangorous Soulblaze, Echoed Voice, Echoed Voice, Hyper Voice, Metal Sound, Round, Snore, Supersonic, Uproar
Mental Manipulation: Confide, Disarming Voice, Grass Whistle, Growl, Heal Bell, Howl, Noble Roar, Parting Shot, Relic Song, Roar, Screech, Sing, Snarl
Magic: Eerie Spell, Perish Song
Though even divided up like this I think ways each move can be "dodged" would vary. Though just in general: Explosion/Shockwave would be the hardest to dodge as they're just a loud burst of sound pushing everything in its bath back, some charged with elemental energy. The sonic beam/high frequency moves are no different from other directed beam/blast/projectile moves, it's a concentrated kinetic force so it could possibly be side stepped/rolled out of the way of (or other evasive maneuvers). Mental Manipulation is a bit tricky, it's not that the move is so loud it causes physical harm but rather there's something about the sound be it the way the Pokemon talked or the flow of noise affect a target's senses; you'll find a lot of the inaccurate sound moves here as a Pokemon can fight off the affect. Finally magic is kind of odd as, since it's blocked by Soundproof, it's not the uttering of the spell which activates it but the target hearing it. It goes beyond mental manipulation and the only real way I can explain it is magic; hearing those words had designated you as the target of the malevolent force being called upon.
Ever since their inception, the original Regis have learned defense-boosting moves at around level 40. Regirock, the stalwart pillar of physical defense, learns Iron Defense. Regice, the unshatterable barrier of special defense, learns Amnesia. And Registeel, the one who trades proficiency in either defense for a balance in both, and who is rumored to be made of "a curious substance that is not of this earth" learns... both Iron Defense and Amnesia. Instead of learning Cosmic Power, it very clunkily learns both Iron Defense and Amnesia.
Ever since their inception, the original Regis have learned defense-boosting moves at around level 40. Regirock, the stalwart pillar of physical defense, learns Iron Defense. Regice, the unshatterable barrier of special defense, learns Amnesia. And Registeel, the one who trades proficiency in either defense for a balance in both, and who is rumored to be made of "a curious substance that is not of this earth" learns... both Iron Defense and Amnesia. Instead of learning Cosmic Power, it very clunkily learns both Iron Defense and Amnesia.
Probably because only Pokémon with a connection to space learn Cosmic Power.
(hastily hides Castform and the Chingling and Buneary lines)
And since it's a "rumor" (then you have Shield that implies it came from the Earth's core) and nothing confirmed...
So I decided to look into this. I'd say roughly 75% of the mons that get the move have a space connection, so it was clearly a goal of theirs at one point, but they've forgotten that since then. Poor Registeel was just getting moves in the gen where they definitely remembered this fact.
Fully-evolved mons that don't have a space connection(arguably) but do learn the move: Sigilyph, Xatu, Metagross, Rayquazza, Lopunny, Delcatty, Castform, Chimecho.
THOUGH the metal that Registeel is made of is said to not be of Earth. Meteoric iron is a thing, cultures throughout history have used it as either easily accessible metal or put mysticism behind it to make weapons & tools. Yes, recent Dex entries now says it was formed underground, but that doesn't mean Regigigas didn't get the metal to make it from meteors. So Registeel getting Cosmic Power doesn't sound too farfetched.
As for why certain Pokemon not related to space get Cosmic Power:
- Baltoy family: Based on the Shakoki-dogu clay figures which have been described as looking like "spacemen".
- Sigilyph: Based on the Nazca Lines which are giant geoglyphs made 500 AD you can only get a good picture from high up in the air; there's a lot of mystery of how they were made without the ancient people seeing the entire geoglyph and why they even made them. As you can imagine a lot of "Not saying it's aliens but..." theories revolve around them.
- Natu family: Xatu stares into the Sun to see the past & future.
- Metang & Metagross: Resemble UFOs.
- Buneary family: Likely because of the Moon Rabbit mythology.
- Skitty: Evolves via Moon Stone and has crescent designs all over it.
- Castform: The study of weather is called "meteorology" and requires knowing a bit about space.
- Chimecho family: Um, I kind of don't know. Maybe because they resemble little UFOs (though if that's the case where the Magnemite family)?
Rayquaza lives in the stratosphere that's pretty relevant to space
You literally fly into space on it in gen 6
And mega evolves with a meteor, for that matter.
Really if anything it should have gotten it before gen 8
Yeah, gen 6 established that Rayquaza eats meteors, and implied that it Mega Evolves by drawing cosmic energy from them. That seems like plenty of justification.
Another Regi oddity. There are several things the Galar duo does that make them painfully stick out from the original Hoenn trio, but these are the dumbest.
At level 24, when the Hoenn trio learns attacks of their respective types, the Galar duo learn status moves. Then at level 30 when the Hoenn trio learns Curse, the Galar duo learns attacks. At level 36 the Hoenn trio learns defense-boosting status moves, while the Galar duo learn attacks of their respective types. Finally, at level 48, the Hoenn trio learns stronger attacks of their respective types, while the Galar duo learns status moves.
Would it have really been too difficult to swap around moves the Galar duo learns at levels 24 and 30 and levels 36 and 48? Or if this was the result of gen 8's asinine insistence to order moves by base power, would it have been so hard to use Thunder and Outrage so they could be placed after Hammer Arm?
Or if that then causes problems with Regidrago's Thrash, put Dragon Claw at level 42, Dragon Pulse at level 48, and then give it Superpower at level 54 because Superpower is the signature move of the Hoenn trio and it's very dumb that Regidrago doesn't get it even though they were clearly okay with giving it Fighting coverage.
Speaking of Superpower, here's yet another Regi oddity. In Diamond and Pearl, Regigigas learned Superpower (at level 25 along with the other Regis, though none of its other levels line up with them) and then Platinum replaced it with Revenge and it's been like that ever since. TvTropes seems to think this is to better synergize with Slow Start, but considering this is Regigigas we're talking about, the Pokemon who didn't learn Protect until Gen 8, I don't think that's a very likely reason.
At level 24, when the Hoenn trio learns attacks of their respective types, the Galar duo learn status moves. Then at level 30 when the Hoenn trio learns Curse, the Galar duo learns attacks. At level 36 the Hoenn trio learns defense-boosting status moves, while the Galar duo learn attacks of their respective types. Finally, at level 48, the Hoenn trio learns stronger attacks of their respective types, while the Galar duo learns status moves.
Would it have really been too difficult to swap around moves the Galar duo learns at levels 24 and 30 and levels 36 and 48? Or if this was the result of gen 8's asinine insistence to order moves by base power, would it have been so hard to use Thunder and Outrage so they could be placed after Hammer Arm?
Or if that then causes problems with Regidrago's Thrash, put Dragon Claw at level 42, Dragon Pulse at level 48, and then give it Superpower at level 54 because Superpower is the signature move of the Hoenn trio and it's very dumb that Regidrago doesn't get it even though they were clearly okay with giving it Fighting coverage.
Speaking of Superpower, here's yet another Regi oddity. In Diamond and Pearl, Regigigas learned Superpower (at level 25 along with the other Regis, though none of its other levels line up with them) and then Platinum replaced it with Revenge and it's been like that ever since. TvTropes seems to think this is to better synergize with Slow Start, but considering this is Regigigas we're talking about, the Pokemon who didn't learn Protect until Gen 8, I don't think that's a very likely reason.
I think this was on purpose because Regieleki and Regidrago are more offense focused Regi than defensive, so reflect that any time the normal Regi would learn a unique supportive move they learned an attack and whenever learned an attack they would learn a supportive move.
Grabbing this off from the other thread and this is more on the "ability" spectrum, but why doesn'tAlolan Exeggutor get something like Chlorophyll (like Exeggutor-K), Leaf Guard or Solar Power.
Its entire shtick is power of the sun letting it grow out so it's weird to not get either of those (Harvest is a sun-boosted ability but more based on being a coconut tree, rather than specifically a sun ability).
And hell I'm not even saying it has to lose Frisk, which I guess is there as a weird joke about the tail. Exeggutor has an empty ability slot! Could've given normal exeggutor leaf guard and alolan solar power or something.
Its entire shtick is power of the sun letting it grow out so it's weird to not get either of those (Harvest is a sun-boosted ability but more based on being a coconut tree, rather than specifically a sun ability).
And hell I'm not even saying it has to lose Frisk, which I guess is there as a weird joke about the tail. Exeggutor has an empty ability slot! Could've given normal exeggutor leaf guard and alolan solar power or something.
Two years later after heart break, my weird esoteric Pokemon movepool trivia heart is excited to announce that there is another move set lost to time that's STILL lost to time! This set flew under my radar because well, I just wasn't expecting it to be in this Pokemon's movepool. Usually funky move pool stuff happens with stone evolutions. This one slipped by me, and I only just now caught it doing a pretty deep dive into some other movepool thing I'm working on. This moveset was legal the moment Pokemon Stadium 2 hit store shelves, but is still wrapped in that 8 bit bubble never to escape. It's an illegal combo to this day, all the way up to Sword and Shield and BDSP now!
And that move set lost to time is...
Piloswine
- Horn Attack
- Detect
How is this impossible now? Piloswine has just flat out lost its access to Horn Attack. It was in its debut in Gen 2, stuck around for Gen 3, but has been lopped off its movepool ever since. The weird thing is, through normal gameplay with just your GSC cartridges, you'll never actually have a Horn Attack Piloswine. It's a move it'll only learn at level 1. There is no move relearner on the cartridge in GSC, and there are no wild Piloswine, let alone wild Piloswine able to have the attack, so its normally inaccessible with just the gen 2 core games.
That's where Pokemon Stadium 2 comes in. PS2 has the series's first move relearner, accessible after beating the game's E4. With it, you can actually go back and teach Piloswine that Horn Attack it can't get otherwise.
Now, obviously, in Gen 3, you can move relearner the attack no problem. That actually cuts down the amount of move sets that are lost considerably. Gen 2's TMs have been made fairly accessible in later gens if you start from Gen 3. As far as I can tell, every single other move in Piloswine's Gen 2 movepool has been made compatible with Horn Attack now except for Detect. The most recent loss was Horn Attack + Curse finally being legal together in SWSH thanks to transferrable egg moves. Detect is the only one hanging on for now, carrying an incredibly specific trivia factoid on the back of all 5-8 of its PP...
I think it's also worth mentioning that like, honestly, this move set probably hasn't like even ever existed proper. Like, I don't think anyone has ever gone through and actually taught this Pokemon these two moves. To be fair, I don't know why you'd ever want to teach this Pokemon that first move with the pain of the Gen 2 move relearner, especially since it has basically no competitive or even in game usage. Oh well, at least it can get a bit of love now as an interesting quirk nowadays.
Posts like this are why I get up in the morning
Outside of No Guard + Fissure Machamp, which is brought up a lot, The VC Pokemon being forced to have their Hidden Abilities leads to some unfortunately impossible combos.
The biggest one in my mind is the following: Pursuit is a Gen II exclusive Egg move for Rhyhorn, unfortunately because of that if you want Pursuit you need to have Reckless. Additionally, with the restrictions of how Gen I-II trades work, the only Move such a Rhyhorn/don/perior can have that can take advantage of the Ability at all is Take Down, due to Pursuit Rhyhorn/don being unable to be traded to Gen I to teach Submission or Double-Edge without having to forget Pursuit first. Neither of those moves make Reckless worth it regardless, but they're not Take Down. While Pursuit is currently unusable in the Switch games, I wonder how useful it would've been if Solid Rock Rhyperior could get ahold of the move in Gen VII.
The biggest one in my mind is the following: Pursuit is a Gen II exclusive Egg move for Rhyhorn, unfortunately because of that if you want Pursuit you need to have Reckless. Additionally, with the restrictions of how Gen I-II trades work, the only Move such a Rhyhorn/don/perior can have that can take advantage of the Ability at all is Take Down, due to Pursuit Rhyhorn/don being unable to be traded to Gen I to teach Submission or Double-Edge without having to forget Pursuit first. Neither of those moves make Reckless worth it regardless, but they're not Take Down. While Pursuit is currently unusable in the Switch games, I wonder how useful it would've been if Solid Rock Rhyperior could get ahold of the move in Gen VII.
This is more from a game design standpoint than logical, but it bothers me so fucking much.
In RBY, the Geodude line learns both Defense Curl and Harden. Why? Why DC first? DC has more PP than Harden and they're otherwise exactly the same! The only use case for Harden is if you forget DC and want it back, because there's no way you're using both or replacing DC with Harden.
In RBY, the Geodude line learns both Defense Curl and Harden. Why? Why DC first? DC has more PP than Harden and they're otherwise exactly the same! The only use case for Harden is if you forget DC and want it back, because there's no way you're using both or replacing DC with Harden.
Don't try to put logic when it comes to RBY (and GS to some degree).
The very early iterations of the series were both made with no experience, with lot of leftovers from previous development, and with very little "continuity" thoughts.
Most of the movesets were either "oh hey it's a rock attack a rock poke should have it" or "it's a strong TM should have wide distribution to make up for limited availability".
There's a lot of illogical stuff. Including the various rock types learning Surf, everyone and their mom being able to breath fire and shoot beams of ice, etc
Blue's Rhydon has Leer and Tail Whip in the final battle with him (and obviously learns both); there is very little logic to any of the moveset choices in RBY.
I think I heard only the final Pokemon's movepool can actually be set in RB. Everything else uses the 4 most recent level up moves. That's also why his Exeggutor sucks
Reminds me of how Snorlax learned Harden via level-up in Gen I(and not until level 41, because Gen I movepools are weird like that). From Gen II onwards it learned Defense Curl instead.
Now that the topic of Harden shows up, I've noticed that several Pokémon whose pre-evolutions could learn Harden (but they themselves could not), got the move added to their learnset in either Let's GO or Gen VIII.
Two notable cases are Starmie and Shiftry, who could learn the move when they were introduced, but lost it in the following ones only to recover it after USUM.
Also, the Geodude line had lost Harden in Gen III but recovered it in BDSP.
Two notable cases are Starmie and Shiftry, who could learn the move when they were introduced, but lost it in the following ones only to recover it after USUM.
Also, the Geodude line had lost Harden in Gen III but recovered it in BDSP.
It's made even more strange by the fact Drowzee and Hypno are the only non-Poison-type Pokémon to learn the move.
Oh, and to add on the oddity - Gastly, the literal poison gas Pokémon, and its evolutions can only learn Poison Gas in Let's GO. Never before, never afterwards. And the Koffing line, Poison-type Pokémon known for spewing toxic gases, had to wait until Gen II to learn Poison Gas.