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Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations
- Thread starter Kurona
- Start date
The list of move comparisons between Paradoxes and their modern forms is madness. Some things are carried over, not all of them, and what it is is basically random. The Volcaronas are particularly unbalanced. Fun fact, Donphan learns Thunder Fang and Fire Fang, which are each boosted by one of the Paradox effects. Neither of the Paradox mons gets either move.
I'm like 99% confident that not giving Quiver Dance to Iron Moth was purely intentional cause it'd have just become VolcaronaOnSteroids with both higher spatk and higher speed to start off with AND Quark Drive to boot.
Yes, but Volcarona gets Bug, Fire, Hurricane, and normal-type moves by level-up. Slither Wing picks up Fighting moves, and swaps out a lot of it's existing moves for physical options, except it's fire-type movepool sucks. Iron Moth gains Discharge and Sludge Wave, loses a bunch of physical moves it wasn't using anyway, and keeps Bug Buzz/Fiery Dance. There is some logic to it, but the actual result is that Slither Wing mostly loses options in exchange for Fighting moves, while Iron Moth's movepool is even better than Volc's except for QD.
Also, Slither Wing gets Poison Powder and Iron Moth's only reliable source of poison is TM Toxic Spikes.
How does the Toedscool line have Trick Room?
From what I've seen with movepool trends [based on what gets it] the move seems to be limited to Psychic- and Ghost-types [for good reason, they probably possess the powers to create all sorts of 'bizarre areas'].
There are a few non-Psychic/Ghost pokemon that get it as well. Some examples include Stantler [strong implications with the Psychic-type and Wyrdeer gets it too so there's that ig], the Porygon line [it is literally a digital-based pokemon, also it can likely move between dimensions], Dialga/Palkia/Arceus [they literally control space/time for the former two and Arceus is literally the equivalent of god] and there's a lot more mons that get it as well that I feel could probably be explained somehow [Audino, Nihilego, Stakataka].
Toedscruel/Toedscool really don't fit the bill for the pokemon that would get Trick Room [and neither does Klingklang, for that matter], so seeing it get the move feels a bit odd.
From what I've seen with movepool trends [based on what gets it] the move seems to be limited to Psychic- and Ghost-types [for good reason, they probably possess the powers to create all sorts of 'bizarre areas'].
There are a few non-Psychic/Ghost pokemon that get it as well. Some examples include Stantler [strong implications with the Psychic-type and Wyrdeer gets it too so there's that ig], the Porygon line [it is literally a digital-based pokemon, also it can likely move between dimensions], Dialga/Palkia/Arceus [they literally control space/time for the former two and Arceus is literally the equivalent of god] and there's a lot more mons that get it as well that I feel could probably be explained somehow [Audino, Nihilego, Stakataka].
Toedscruel/Toedscool really don't fit the bill for the pokemon that would get Trick Room [and neither does Klingklang, for that matter], so seeing it get the move feels a bit odd.
I think Hypno getting Poison Gas is really cool :3
Why is Glaive Rush (also known as Giant Sword Assault) not boosted by Sharpness?
I'm convinced that the Paradox Pokemon aren't actually Pokemon from the far past/future but rather, due to "Disk Pokemon" warping reality in Area Zero, are Pokemon from or more direct descendants of modern Pokemon who ended up teleported into a fantasy far past/future. Either due to the reality warping or forcing to adapt (or a combination of the two, or in the "future" Pokemon's case being possibly augmented by people), the Paradox Pokemon changed into what we see them as now. Hence their movepools being a hodgepodge of what their "modern relative" have and what they would have adapted (even though it would make no sense them having certain moves if they had naturally developed).
While I could make a list, out of curiosity, are there any Pokemon you specifically are thinking of that should be getting Poison Gas?
They release hallucinogenic spores which distorts all Pokemon's perception of the passage of time on the field. Pokemon who are normally fast have their minds racing as they're experiencing things in slow motion which includes their own movements, thus making them hesitate. Meanwhile slower Pokemon who are used to keeping things at a steady pace are now having the world around them speed up including their movements thus are more reactive.
This explanation could also be used for Nihilego using its neurotoxin to create a similar effect.
As for some others you mentioned:
- Audino: Uses its empathetic powers to show every Pokemon the opposite's point of view.
- Stakataka: I wouldn't be surprised with all those eyes it has some hypnotic power to alter perception.
- Klinklang: Reverses the charge of the electromagnetic field causing faster Pokemon's normally reactive muscles to seize up while giving slower Pokemon's more relaxed muscles a kinetic energy boost.
Not to mention:
- The "Claw" moves: Dragon Claw, Shadow Claw, Crush Claw, & Metal Claw.
- The other Normal-type swiping moves: Scratch & Fury Swipes.
- Moves with implied sharpness: Magical Leaf.
- Not programmed to attack (yet?): Secret Sword & Razor Wind.
Shadow Claw not being boosted by Sharpness throws me off especially since Gallade learns Shadow Claw this generation. You're telling me Ceruledge was not only screwed out of having Sharpness, but it also couldn't even get a Ghost slashing move to match Bitter Blade?
The exclusion of claw moves seems like a very deliberate choice. Glaive Rush just seems like an oversight.
honestly i think toedscool got trick room just because they have an ability that forces them to go last if they use a status move
like its a joke, to have this ability and then also Trick Room, the status move that always goes last anyway. Now you can go even more last than normal.
Doubly so because Toedscruel has like 100 base speed like its regular counterpart.
like its a joke, to have this ability and then also Trick Room, the status move that always goes last anyway. Now you can go even more last than normal.
Doubly so because Toedscruel has like 100 base speed like its regular counterpart.
I think Glaive Rush isn't boosted by Sharpness specifically because of the manner in which Baxcalibur uses its rear blade when attacking.
Sharpness boosts moves that are cutting/slashing moves, aka they slash the user with a blade, but Baxcalibur uses its blade more as a spear, aka it impales the opponent with its rear blade as opposed to slashing them with it. Since its blade also happens to be attached to its back it's also executed by Baxcalibur flipping and doing a full body ram into its opponent, reinforcing the use of its rear blade as a ram-in spear that it straight up stabs/impales its opponent with.
Looking through the list of moves that Sharpness boosts all of them involve using a blade of sorts as a slashing or slicing attack, while Baxcalibur tends to stab/impale its opponents and doesn't slash/slice them with its rear blade: given the way its back blade is situated it cannot really slice anything with it.
Sharpness boosts moves that are cutting/slashing moves, aka they slash the user with a blade, but Baxcalibur uses its blade more as a spear, aka it impales the opponent with its rear blade as opposed to slashing them with it. Since its blade also happens to be attached to its back it's also executed by Baxcalibur flipping and doing a full body ram into its opponent, reinforcing the use of its rear blade as a ram-in spear that it straight up stabs/impales its opponent with.
Looking through the list of moves that Sharpness boosts all of them involve using a blade of sorts as a slashing or slicing attack, while Baxcalibur tends to stab/impale its opponents and doesn't slash/slice them with its rear blade: given the way its back blade is situated it cannot really slice anything with it.
In fairness, Iron Treads has no mouth.
I got curious as to whether there might be an aspect of Great Tusk being unable to effectively bite a target because the tusks are in the way, so I checked Mamoswine's ability to learn Ice Fang. It could by level in gens 4-7, by relearner and TM in gen 8, and then becomes unable to in gen 9. So that's a thing I guess.
Okay, Mamoswine's interesting in using Ice Fang in the anime.
It has a mouth that's normally not seen, but uses its tusks for Ice Fang. Considering Swinub can't learn Ice Fang, I think Donphan also uses its tusks like Mamoswine, so Iron Treads and Great Tusk not getting the fang moves was an oversight.
It has a mouth that's normally not seen, but uses its tusks for Ice Fang. Considering Swinub can't learn Ice Fang, I think Donphan also uses its tusks like Mamoswine, so Iron Treads and Great Tusk not getting the fang moves was an oversight.
Because I have negative trust in the Anime to correctly represent things, I now believe that Mamoswine should never have learned Ice Fang to begin with and gen 9 is correcting a mistake.
Mamoswine does not learn Ice Fang in Gen 9 because it is not in Gen 9.
Also tusks are literally teeth.
Check again.
So, turns out Donphan can learn all the Elemental Fangs: Fire, Thunder, and Ice.
Great Tusk can only learn Fire Fang & Thunder Fang.
Iron Treads can only learn Thunder Fang & Ice Fang.
You know what this means, there's one more Paradox Donphan that can only learn Fire Fang & Ice Fang!
And if it follows this pattern, it somehow becomes weak to Thunder Fang as the one it doesn't learn (Ground Type basis be damned)
What best way to make a anti-paradox than to make it 4x weak to Ground then!
(Or as even more meme, you can imagine a Iron Valiant-ish route, considering the 2 paradoxes are Ground/Fight and Ground/Steel, then the thirdadox is now Fight/Steel)
Wouldn't an Anti-Paradox Pokemon be a version of that Pokemon that's strong against the Paradox version of itself? Anyway I think we're getting near wishlisting territory here.
Iron Valiant can learn Liquidation.
...what?
...what?