Challenge Pokémon "The Perfect Run": A brand new challenge run like never before (Discussion forum, LP forum coming soon)

bdt2002

Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs superfan
is a Pre-Contributor
Hello again, my new friends. Assuming you know who I am, but I won't waste time with introductions. Ask me questions if you want, but for now, let's get to the point.

To celebrate the creation of this account, I wanted to give you guys the chance to get involved with something I've been planning for a LONG time, and am still working on to this day. You may have seen people complete other popular video games like Dank Souls (you read that right), Cuphead, or whatever games have came out in the past two years or so. But ask yourself, what if this concept was applied to Pokémon games? This is Pokémon: "The Perfect Run".

The idea of this run will be simple. Try and complete the entire main story of any main series Pokémon game of my/your choice without taking ANY damage from ANYTHING throughout the ENTIRE GAME. I've made the ruleset already, and I figured this old be the place to talk about my idea that most of you will probably hate...okay, I won't be that hard on myself haha

Rules:
1. Must use a full team of 6 Pokémon by the time you beat the game...if I/you can make it that far
2. No Legendary or Mythical Pokémon
3. No over-excessive level grinding
4. No cheating allowed
5. No trading with other games (expect for trade evolutions)

So, what do you say? If enough people like this idea, I'm actually gonna do it on here.
 

bdt2002

Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs superfan
is a Pre-Contributor
I don't think what you describe is physically possible, if nothing else because you can't OHKO your rival's Pokemon in the first battle that every game has.
That's the beauty of it. Statistically speeaking, BW1 are the only games so far where it's truly impossible because damage calcs and the Tackle "buff" in Gen 5 to 50 power/100 accuracy. (Could be possible if you spam Tail Whip/Leer AND outspeed both rivals AND crit them both, but those odds...)

GSC, RSE, DP (not Platinum), HGSS, and ORAS all allow for wild Pokémon grinds before their 1st rival battle, and XY and the Alola games make it MUCH easier with higher crit odds and type advantage. (And Super Training in XY)

Even with all that, I just want bragging rights lol
 
That's the beauty of it. Statistically speeaking, BW1 are the only games so far where it's truly impossible because damage calcs and the Tackle "buff" in Gen 5 to 50 power/100 accuracy. (Could be possible if you spam Tail Whip/Leer AND outspeed both rivals AND crit them both, but those odds...)

GSC, RSE, DP (not Platinum), HGSS, and ORAS all allow for wild Pokémon grinds before their 1st rival battle, and XY and the Alola games make it MUCH easier with higher crit odds and type advantage. (And Super Training in XY)

Even with all that, I just want bragging rights lol
Even a level 2 wild Pokemon isn't OHKO'd by your newly caught starter. And what you're saying seems fully incompatible with your rule "no over-excessive level grinding".

I'm not trying to be a downer or anything, I just don't think it's feasible.
 

bdt2002

Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs superfan
is a Pre-Contributor
Even a level 2 wild Pokemon isn't OHKO'd by your newly caught starter. And what you're saying seems fully incompatible with your rule "no over-excessive level grinding".

I'm not trying to be a downer or anything, I just don't think it's feasible.
I get that you're not trying to be. I appreciate that, actually. I've considered my options and have found that the best way to go about it is to grind levels only until you get your first STAB attack, against wild Pokémon that do have a stat lowering move. Knowing how most Pokémon like that have 2 moves to begin with, and the ones that only have attacks you can just run from, there's a 50% shot you'll get an extra turn every time you move. Those odds are pretty good considering what this run can put me up against.

The grinding rule was put into place for getting, say, 15-20+ levels above your opponents or something stupid like that, which would just allow you to OHKO and outspeed all the things. For that to work, you'd have to grind against extremly low level stuff for a long, LONG time since they give you like no experience whatsoever. In most games, grinding is required somewhat to pull this off, but not on an extreme scale.

Take HGSS for example. If I was to pick Totodile, I could beat down stuff like Sentret with good enough odds to reach Level 6 without taking a hit, and then since I'd get Water Gun, I could then go and beat up some Geodudes while ignoring most other things.

MOD EDIT: Please don't double post
 
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I tried this once in RSE actually, didn't get too far in but Pickup and Shedinja access was nice, and lots of earlygame opponents have Tackle/imperfect accuracy moves. You definitely need some grinding to make it through earlygame as you say though and a lot of patience to make it through that limited part of the game. The odds are incredibly stacked against you but I think you could make it through given enough time.
 

bdt2002

Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs superfan
is a Pre-Contributor
I tried this once in RSE actually, didn't get too far in but Pickup and Shedinja access was nice, and lots of earlygame opponents have Tackle/imperfect accuracy moves. You definitely need some grinding to make it through earlygame as you say though and a lot of patience to make it through that limited part of the game. The odds are incredibly stacked against you but I think you could make it through given enough time.
Hey that's awesome, and thanks for the comment!

Say while on the subject of HGSS guys, I did have a team idea for a run like this for that game I wanted to run by you all

Feraligatr, Steelix, Heracross, Alakazam, Fearow, Jolteon (FINAL TEAM)
 
Say while on the subject of HGSS guys, I did have a team idea for a run like this for that game I wanted to run by you all

Feraligatr, Steelix, Heracross, Alakazam, Fearow, Jolteon (FINAL TEAM)
Wouldn’t you want a full team of fast-ish attackers with as many immunities as possible? I feel like Steelix wouldn’t do super well because it’s very slow and even a stray Scratch would end your run.

Defensive stats are worthless in this kind of challenge, so all you should care about when choosing team members are their typing, power, speed, and movepool!
 

bdt2002

Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs superfan
is a Pre-Contributor
Wouldn’t you want a full team of fast-ish attackers with as many immunities as possible? I feel like Steelix wouldn’t do super well because it’s very slow and even a stray Scratch would end your run.

Defensive stats are worthless in this kind of challenge, so all you should care about when choosing team members are their typing, power, speed, and movepool!
I've considered all of those. Thing thing about Steelix, or rather the ingame trade for Onix in HGSS, is that it comes with a set Hasty nature and a very high Speed IV, and is the fastest Pokémon available that has a good match-up against both Falkner and Bugsy. (Just watch out for Quick Attack and 90% accuracy with Rock Throw).

The optimum team member for this challenge would have a high Speed stat, common immunities, preferably good offensive power, and important matchups against many Trainers. Abra in GSC is an excellent example of this, having great type coverage with the 3 elemental punches plus Psychic AND having a high Speed stat.
 

Merritt

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So let's discuss how this would go for Pokemon RSE since that's the one I'm most familiar with.

First off, you can't really take Mudkip. Not only is there the imperfect accuracy issue, Rival 2's Grovyle has only attacking moves meaning that it has to be OHKOed, which without "excessive grinding" isn't possible without a crit. Even going for a crit means relying on Grovyle not going for Quick Attack, something it's fairly liable to do vs Swellow for example. It also can't be Shedinja'd (something that would be an excellent tool).

So we're left with Treecko or Torchic. Treecko, frankly, doesn't have the necessary power to work. It's got the better Roxanne matchup by far but its lower attacking stats and STAB move BP mean that route trainers are a struggle. So we're stuck with Torchic.

Thankfully this also means Rival 1 doesn't have Pound or Scratch, reducing the number of resets.

Torchic is going to want to become a Combusken for Roxanne. While you can OHKO the Geodude(s) with Wingull or something, Nosepass needs a bit more power and Double Kick provides. You'll almost certainly have to reset for either crits or non-attacking moves though.

Brawly is irrelevant since he can be skipped until later to allow for OHKOing.

Rival 2 is a bit tricky but not bad since we took Torchic. We'll want a Geodude to OHKO Slugma (Numel if RS and from now on I'm going to assume Emerald) and evolve a Swellow for Lombre. A Shedinja can hard wall Marshtomp, or it's possible to train an Oddish to a relatively high level and go for a Bullet Seed KO instead. We also probably want to grab an Oddish for Sleep Powder.

Wattson's Voltorb must be OHKOed (all attacking moves) and we'll want to have a way to OHKO Magneton as well since we can't guarantee Shedinja vs it because of Supersonic although that can just be reset through. The game corner can get Combusken Flamethrower. Hope you like gambling. Shedinja handles Electrike and Manectric, but be prepared to have to reset for AI prediction in case they switch.

Maxie 1 isn't too bad. Main thing is getting Combusken (or Blaziken if necessary) to OHKO Mightyena despite Intimidate, either with Double Kick or Flamethrower. Plusle or Manectric or Alakazam should go for the Zubat OHKO (Graveler can work too). Either Tentacool with Bubblebeam (although it's difficult to train) or a Pelipper can go for a Camerupt OHKO. Then they'll need some more training for Flannery - recommend going for Tentacruel to make the Torkoal OHKO easier. Torkoal is the Flannery issue.

Swing by Brawly to OHKO x3 and then Norman. Blaziken is mandatory now - we need to be OHKOing. Shedinja is too risky to use vs Spinda or Linoone due to AI switching. A Protect/Toxic mon (not like Toxic is going to be used otherwise) beats Slaking.

Rival 3 is no thang. OHKO the Lombre with your handy Swellow, rain boost OHKO Slugma with your Flannery killer, and then Shedinja the Marshtomp.

Skip Winona for a while to get levels up naturally to not "overgrind". It's not like we're in a hurry.

Maxie 2 isn't too bad. Mightyena can be either OHKOed or reset for not-Take Down/Swagger not punching yourself. Crobat should be either Alakazamed or Manectric Thunderbolted since it is fast. Camerupt can be watered.

Tate and Liza are somewhat of a trial. Multiple Sharpedo is probably the best bet here. Focus down the Claydol and Solrock, and then use a Flute to keep things unconfused from Xatu. Neither Xatu or Lunatone can do damage to Dark types aside from Xatu's confuse ray.

Double battle Maxie is pray for RNG since you're stuck with Steven. Not much can be done here outside massive leveling with a Wailord to use Water Spout on everything and pray for OHKOs and that Crobat doesn't actually do an attacking move.

Archie is cake comparatively. Just remember to not have Blaziken Double Kick the Sharpedo and take rough skin damage.

Juan is also incredibly easy, just OHKO the Luvdisc with a good electric type and then throw Shedinja at the rest.

Wally isn't bad at all. Ice Beam the Altaria with Wailord or something, Brick Break the Delcatty, Flamethrower the Roselia and Magneton, and have Sharpedo or some other Dark type take out Gardevoir.

I'm going to say the league is possible but absolutely god awful. First, the not so bad.

Sidney can be 6-0ed by Blaziken Brick Break after a teammate OHKOs (or eats Sand Attack and 2HKOs) Mightyena so no Intimidate.

Glacia will require either a very high leveled Blaziken, one that's got a good Attack stat through nature, IVs, and EVs, or a crit on Walrein in order to Blaziken sweep. It's theoretically plausible to have a Magneton Thunder KO Walrein as well, although that'll also certainly take a bunch of levels.

Drake is liable to take a few tries in order to abuse him switching out of Kingdra vs Shedinja so that Ice Beam can KO his team. It's also possible to maybe train up a Salamence to the point where it can OHKO everything with Dragon Claw.

And the unlikely at best.

Wallace thankfully has three Pokemon walled by Shedinja. Unfortunately, one of the Pokemon that isn't walled is Milotic, who OHKOing is unlikely to say the least. Manipulating it into using Recover on the first turn will also take a long time and doesn't even really help since that just means it gets to heal some. It needs to sleep. Getting a Vileplume up to outspeed Milotic requires a lot of levels to say the least, and Sleep Powder's accuracy isn't perfect, so that'll require resets more than likely. Breloom can outspeed without too too much issue, but that requires training up a Shroomish to level 54 before evolving. Without it being able to take damage. That will take an age and a half, and Breloom doesn't even have a great chance of actually managing the KO during the sleep turns, partly because of Marvel Scale. Gardevoir is probably the best option, but even then has to contend with Hypnosis' poor accuracy and is very likely to incite Wallace to use a Full Restore in the course of trying to kill Milotic, meaning it has to hit again.

The other option from sleep is OHKO moves. There's two viable options honestly, since everything else is on the sluggish side (although Seaking could work if you're determined). Glalie (base 80, learns Sheer Cold at 61) and Pinsir (base 85, learns Guillotine at 37). This obviously requires a lot of luck, especially if the goal is to take out all of the Pokemon who can beat Shedinja. In other words, a lot of resets again.

Phoebe is similar, with difficulty in OHKOing her Sableye or Dusclops without critting, but she's notable because Dusclops 2 has only attacking moves, so no way to get maybe bailed out. She's also immune to Guillotine so no cheesing like that.


Final summary: way, way too much resetting and grinding up random Pokemon for my tastes. It also wouldn't be particularly interesting to watch imo because either it'd be dreadfully boring (so many resets to show) or not particularly exciting as you have to luck your way past so many Pokemon.
 
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bdt2002

Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs superfan
is a Pre-Contributor
Yeesh. That's a lot of stuff to take in. And then you have wild encounters, the bane of this run (Quick Attack), and where and when to grind for levels without doing TOO much of it...yeah, those might be some of the harder games to do it on. Imo, I think Yellow and Emerald are the two hardest (RS wouldnt be THAT much easier). You know...is this even worth it? The only games I have a planned route for are GSC, HGSS, and BW2 at this point.....
 

bdt2002

Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs superfan
is a Pre-Contributor
It's decided. Like every other idea of mine I've had in my life, sarcasm of course, I'm cancelling this run. I need new ideas, then...anyone? I might as well just delete this account if I can't come up with any ideas...

EDIT: Should I just end it all? As in the Smogon account I just started? Maybe I'm just having a rough night, but something just doesn't feel right. It doesn't help that this idea is just being added to the list of all the other ones I've had to cacel in my life. So yeah, how does one delete an account? Unless one of you can somehow motivate me, but since I'm not asking for attention, good luck with that.
 
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It's decided. Like every other idea of mine I've had in my life, sarcasm of course, I'm cancelling this run. I need new ideas, then...anyone? I might as well just delete this account if I can't come up with any ideas...

EDIT: Should I just end it all? As in the Smogon account I just started? Maybe I'm just having a rough night, but something just doesn't feel right. It doesn't help that this idea is just being added to the list of all the other ones I've had to cacel in my life. So yeah, how does one delete an account? Unless one of you can somehow motivate me, but since I'm not asking for attention, good luck with that.

Maybe you should try a more conventional challenge to motivate yourself? Perhaps a solo run with a weak Pokemon or something like that?
 

bdt2002

Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs superfan
is a Pre-Contributor
Maybe you should try a more conventional challenge to motivate yourself? Perhaps a solo run with a weak Pokemon or something like that?
Yeah, I do think that could work. I just wanna do something to get myself known here. Or at least entertain you all. Because I've always wanted to be a part of the Smogon community, if you will.

There was one thing I had planned for one of the Unova games, but I can't do that without indulging the Internet into what might be one of the weirdest Pokémon memories you'll ever hear...long story short, it has something to with Foongus. I'll even get you started. Go online and look up "What The Foongus" exactly as I typed it.

You may or may not enjoy what you find. Spoiler alert: I'm the same guy.
 
I don't wanna sound rude but to me a run like this just sounds random and grindy like a Nuzlocke requires skill and a wide range of knowledge but this pretty much requires luck 99% of the time, but hey to each there own, if you wanna invest time and effort into this challenge it would take a lot of effort!
 

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