Pokémon XY General Discussion

[DinaIsha]

they aren't very keen on editing former stat spreads of old Pokemon who would arguably do better with some reorganized stats.

True. It's more of a wishful thinking, really.

Special attacks will utilize special speed while physical attack will utilize physical speed!

Interesting. Now that I think about it, Special Attackers won't need to move at all (While attacking), as they can control the position of their attack. But they'd need physical speed to evade attacks. Also in Pokemon Conquest, the Speed Stat was related with Evasion.

 

[Yveltal]

Speed splits remind me of a weird old theory that someone came up with regarding the speeds of techniques based on their base power. I should hope Game Freak doesn't come up with anything statistically that's gonna break us all. I have a feeling that Fairy type is the only big thing they're going to do out of secret consideration for the metagame, but I'm open to being surprised.

 

[EIFF]

I don't want any Pokemon to have 0 in a Base stat, but I wouldn't mind seeing some new specialists.
I took a look at some of the Pokemon with highest base attack/base special attack, but low in the opposite attacking stat. This is what I found:

Pokemon (Atk/SAtk)

Darmanitan (140/30)
Excadrill (135/50)
Rhydon (130/45)
Sawk (125/30)
Heracross (125/40)
Granidos (125/30)

Chandelure (55/145)
Dramanitan-Z (30/140)
Alakazam (50/135)
Togekiss (50/120)
Jynx (50/115)

I think we have some decent "specialist" in the physical side, but I wouldn't mind seeing some new Pokemon get something like 10-20 in Special Attack and good Attack.

On the Special side we could definitly "need" some new Pokemon with 10-40 attack and high SAtk. There is none of these at the moment.


EDIT: The problem with Phycial-Speed and Special-Speed is the non-damaging moves. Should they be based on a third speed stat?

 

[Jimmyftw]

Regarding non-damaging move speed: v = (special speed + physical speed)/2 or the average.

Pokemon like Alakazam will still be faster if they use special attack, but if Alakazam were to use tackle I can't imagine it run very fast.

Someone mention how each generation had some big mechanic changes: RSE with nature, ev, iv DP with physical/ special split. This speed thing might be it for xy.

 

[Yveltal]

Or Fairy types.
Fairies could totally be the new it-girl mechanic for Gen VI.

If they create a second speed stat, then suddenly there's a ton of reorganizing to do for EV distributions. And then, like we're assuming they've figured out for Hidden Power, they'd need a new formula for IVs.

 

[DinaIsha]

The problem with Phycial-Speed and Special-Speed is the non-damaging moves. Should they be based on a third speed stat?

Non-damaging can be split into Physical and Special as well. Will-O-Wisp could be Special while Bulk Up could be Physical.

Found this cool fan-art online, although it looks like something out of a Shakespeare Drama's balcony scene. "Xerneas, Xerneas, wherefore art thou, Xerneas?"

 

[Jimmyftw]

Or Fairy types.
Fairies could totally be the new it-girl mechanic for Gen VI.

If they create a second speed stat, then suddenly there's a ton of reorganizing to do for EV distributions. And then, like we're assuming they've figured out for Hidden Power, they'd need a new formula for IVs.

Formulas are easy, I assume they have like mathematicians working there at Nintendo. Take a look at the Pokemon capture rate formula lol.

@ThePoet that is epic! I just noticed that Yveltal have legs.

 

[Cresselia~~]

IF, they really change the formula, I don't think the main problem would be working it out.
I think the main problem would be how it affects the metagame, e.g. whether the advantages tilt towards defense or attack.
(We experienced a similar shift towards attack when Level 50 battles are introduced)

And of course, the tilt will affect which Pokemon gets to shine, and also how you battle.

However, you can say that with the new Fairy type, new Pokemon and new movepool, a lot of things would change anyway.
Whilst it may not affect an average player, any new formula should be analyzed by hardcore people to deduce an optimized way of battling.

Talking about objectifying Pokemon, we have Mons like Alakazam and Machamp which are your sterotypical special attacker and physical attacker. That got me thinking why are special attacker generally faster than their physical counterpart? I mean is it because, for example, Alakazam's mind speed is faster than Machamp's physical speed?

That got me thinking: What if the scoop of the century is special and physical speed split?!?!?

Special attacks will utilize special speed while physical attack will utilize physical speed!

I just realized that I am a genius.

I personally associate Pokemon in-game speed with how quick their minds respond to their trainer's orders.

Otherwise it will be silly because you have Pidgeot that's supposed to fly faster than a jet plane at speed 91,
and Jynx somehow has a speed of 95, AND Alakazam at 120.

So how do the latter 2 do it? They run faster than a jet plane? They float faster than a jet plane?
Can they fly? speed of teleport?

(Alakazam's slow moving in PBR and Stadium, so.)

Anyway, so I think it's speed of response other than speed of action, and considering Fighting Pokemon are stereotyped to be thick many times by Game Freak, that probably explains

(Well, I know you still can be slow and intelligent, but generally.)

 

[DinaIsha]

So how do the latter 2 do it? They run faster than a jet plane? They float faster than a jet plane?
Can they fly? speed of teleport?

I don't think Pokedex entries should be taken seriously. Well, even if they are, Escavalier's entry states that it "flies around at high speed", while its Speed Stat is a measly 20. I always assumed that the Speed Stat is the calculation of how quickly the Pokemon can move in a battle (Or like you said, how quickly they can react). Maybe an Escavalier can move a high speeds in a long, spacious forest. But in a battle, where reflex is needed, Escavalier can't act so quickly. So yeah, the existing system is very much justified. But it'd be nice to see some sort of a change or mix up.

What do you guys think about Dark Aura and Fairy Aura? Yes, we don't know how it acts. I'd rather that it increases the Dark/Fairy attacks of all Pokemon in the party regardless of whether or not Yveltal/Xerneas is active in the field (Think Flower Gift), but from the legendary battle gameplay, it seems like they'll boost only the attacks of those in the field. So, it's not really powerful/useful for a legendary. Well, at least it is better than Pressure. Also because of this, does anyone feel like Dark and Fairy will be SE against each other?

 

[pokem]

I hope they have cool music like the theme of Red in HGSS and the blue and red games opening theme. There is lot more that I like including the gym leader final i pokemon theme (very inspiring) in gen 5. Music is quite important in the pokemon game as it builds atmosphere of the games like its super dramatic when fighting legies and strong when fighting the elite four, champion or red. EDIT: The music is also scary especially the Lavender Town theme and no it does not make your ears bleed and make you suicide but don't listen to it before going to sleep.

 

[Yveltal]

What do you guys think about Dark Aura and Fairy Aura? Yes, we don't know how it acts. I'd rather that it increases the Dark/Fairy attacks of all Pokemon in the party regardless of whether or not Yveltal/Xerneas is active in the field (Think Flower Gift), but from the legendary battle gameplay, it seems like they'll boost only the attacks of those in the field. So, it's not really powerful/useful for a legendary. Well, at least it is better than Pressure. Also because of this, does anyone feel like Dark and Fairy will be SE against each other?

Excuse me?
Flower gift also only works when Cherrim is on the field. Abilities with stat-boosting passive effects like that are only active while the wielder is active. Because of the way that previous team-effort abilities have worked(and really, every ability ever), I think we can make an educated guess as to how to use it. Fairy/Dark Aura can be both a blessing and a curse, depending on how many other Pokemon in both parties have Fairy/Dark techniques in their movesets, but in theory, these abilities gives our new legendaries a super STAB of some sort. It's a second modifier on top of their usual same type attack bonus, so on my own, I could theoretically deliver the strongest Dark type attack if we aren't considering other stat boosts/decreases. I don't know how you deduced that having a second boost for your STAB boost is bad, because if it provides enough of a boost, there may not be a big need to worry over having super-effective coverage moves.
To theorize further, if Uber double/triple battles were a thing, then Xerneas and myself could both play a light supporter and sweeper for giving allies with a Dark or Fairy technique a boost on that particular attack. I think it's got about the same general utility as Reshiram/Zekrom's Mold Breaker knock-offs, because nullifying the opponent's ability can earn you an opportunity to outplay them. It's not really a terrible ability so far, but if you really want to use your new legendary, then you'll simply have to learn to cover up it's flaws. The biggest foreseeable problem is having an opponent square off against a Pokemon of your own who takes neutral or super effective damage from Dark/Fairy moves. If your opponent's got a good enough Atk stat, you may be out one Pokemon in a turn or two unless you play with non-dark types who can withstand a Dark type attack.
(sorry about all the long rants, I haven't slept and I'm feeling highly opinionated.)

 

[SMZ]

Physical/Special speed split might seem a tad a logical, but it'd complicate things and offer more unpredictability (which is both good and bad). On another note, I am still very curious about HP Fairy mechanic (unless there isn't one for some weird reason).

 

[Antihaxxer]

Someone mention how each generation had some big mechanic changes: RSE with nature, ev, iv DP with physical/ special split. This speed thing might be it for xy.

Gen V brings ... ? Gen 2 brings IV not RSE ...

 

[Stellar]

If we are speaking competitively, Gen 3 also introduced abilities while Gen 5 introduced team preview to Wi-Fi play.

 

[Ingo]

If we are speaking competitively, Gen 3 also introduced abilities while Gen 5 introduced team preview to Wi-Fi play.

Does team preview count as a "mechanic"? I'm not sure.

 

[meganiultimate]

Non-damaging can be split into Physical and Special as well. Will-O-Wisp could be Special while Bulk Up could be Physical.

Found this cool fan-art online, although it looks like something out of a Shakespeare Drama's balcony scene. "Xerneas, Xerneas, wherefore art thou, Xerneas?"

No, come at me bro.
The special/attack speed switch doesn't seem plausible to me. Really. It would be a little complicated for new gamers as well as the old ones who aren't on Smogon, Serebii, etc. Why would we need it just for attacks anyway? If every Gen. came up with a new mechanic, generation V was Internet game-play. Gen VI should have something to back up every Gen. from III+. Like coming up with a new mechanic that only applies to Pokémon battling. (I.E. new weather, ability to battle with Pokémon still in your PC without increasing party size(like the battle box).)

Still, I didn't start EV/IV training until Pokémon Black, and all I did was max out Attack and raised Speed on a level 50 Salamence.

I started with G/S, and raised a Nidoking(named Nicki) to level 100. His moveset was Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Thunderpunch, and Surf. cx

Gaming was a little challenge back then. I then got Colosseum , which changed my life. There I started with a Rash Espeon and Sassy Umbreon.


I want X/Y to be like Colo./XD. with obvious antagonist influence, a good plot, and overall homestyle like gaming.


And I'm on Team Chespin. I wonder if Chespin will be defensive?

 

[DinaIsha]

Excuse me? Flower gift also only works when Cherrim is on the field.

My bad then. Even so, it will just be a tad stronger Adaptability (Albeit for all Pokemon on field).

 

[Anartya]

Regarding non-damaging move speed: v = (special speed + physical speed)/2 or the average.

Pokemon like Alakazam will still be faster if they use special attack, but if Alakazam were to use tackle I can't imagine it run very fast.

Someone mention how each generation had some big mechanic changes: RSE with nature, ev, iv DP with physical/ special split. This speed thing might be it for xy.

Precisely. I'm hoping for a huge change like that in X and Y. BW/BW2 felt exactly like DPPt with more abilities, attacks, weather, and pokemon. All of which were there since RSE. I want a change...something huge that would completely change the metagame and keep it distinct from DPPt and BW. I like the idea of special/physical speed. It reminds me of Attack-Speed calculation in fire emblem. You could have physical speed = (attack + speed)/2, special speed = (special attack + speed)/2, and status/non damaging speed = speed. I don't think it will happen, but I want a change like this. Yes, fairy type is a very good start. Hoping for more new things to surprise me.

 

[The Shadow Knight]

My bad then. Even so, it will just be a tad stronger Adaptability (Albeit for all Pokemon on field).

Except that Adaptability is an absolutely incredible ability. If the boost from those auras is on that level, the effect will be significant.

 

[R_N]

Does team preview count as a "mechanic"? I'm not sure.

Not really, because I mean
It's been around for a while

I distinctly remember a wi-fi battle with someone in Diamond and oh hey team preview
And even if that memory is wrong, PBR definitely had it for all forms of wi-fi battling

Needless to say I've always been confused by the reaction towards team preview as some strange terrible new thing

 

[meganiultimate]

Not really, because I mean
It's been around for a while

I distinctly remember a wi-fi battle with someone in Diamond and oh hey team preview
And even if that memory is wrong, PBR definitely had it for all forms of wi-fi battling

Needless to say I've always been confused by the reaction towards team preview as some strange terrible new thing

I haven't really cared about team preview. From what I know, people think that it's a strategy thing.

 

[Stellar]

Not really, because I mean
It's been around for a while

I distinctly remember a wi-fi battle with someone in Diamond and oh hey team preview
And even if that memory is wrong, PBR definitely had it for all forms of wi-fi battling

Needless to say I've always been confused by the reaction towards team preview as some strange terrible new thing

The big deal for most people was the switch from having team preview as an option to being forced to use it in all forms of Wi-Fi play. In previous generations we could ignore it for the most part, but I would say it became a "mechanic" of competitive play in Gen 5.

 

[Yveltal]

My bad then. Even so, it will just be a tad stronger Adaptability (Albeit for all Pokemon on field).

:O I forgot all about Adaptability. What if Fairy/Dark Auras really are a leveled-up Adaptability that gives anyone on the field a 2x STAB for Fairy and Dark techniques? (or mayhaps it just adds 1.5, to be as fair as patented legendary abilities go, so Xerneas and myself, along with others of our types are the only ones who get a 2x STAB, whereas Gengar using Dark Pulse gets a free 1.5x STAB because it's a Dark technique.)

 

[DarkEspeon]

Gen V brings ... ? Gen 2 brings IV not RSE ...

No, RSE brought IVs and EVs. Gen 2 still had DVs and Stat Exp. even though it introduced the Special split. Special Attack and Special Defense shared the same DV and Stat Exp, which was necessary for trading with Gen 1.

As for this speed split idea, it sounds forced and overly complicated. It also would 100% kill any chance of transfers from Gen 5 unless the speeds share their IV and EV. If we go there, how long until we see two HP bars?

 

[Codraroll]

One day, I'll have to try, just for the lulz, to have Crawdaunt fight alongside Yveltal in a double battle. Dark Aura + Adaptability + BlackGlasses (the Plates are too boring) is going to make for one heck of a Crunch. Perhaps Payback would be more powerful, but that would require Crawdaunt to be hit by an attack first, which it isn't particularly likely to survive.