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Pokemon Legends: Z-A Combat/PVP Discussion Thread

What kind of sets should we expect Zygarde to run?

I assume that investing heavily into Special Defense would be the way to go, to help survivability against popular special attacking Fairy and Ice types. I wonder if going fully defensive with max HP/SpDef would be good, since Nihil Light is already strong enough without offensive investment, and surviving until you get the Mega activated seems to be the priority.
 
I can see Mega Zygarde being awkward to execute, mostly because of having to start in 50% form (or 10% if you got that dog in you). Base form absolutely needs Light Screen support in order to survive the many Ice Beams running around, especially Glaceon's. You then need full mega energy AND be in Complete form to mega evolve, so 50% Zygarde has to survive not only Ice Beam, but Dragon Rush, Ice Fang, Ice Punch, Moonblast, Outrage, etc. The stat swap Mega Zygarde gives will also be tricky to build around because 50% Zygarde starts with 100 Attack and 81 SpA, with no way to boost said SpA, so all of your special moves pre-mega will hit like wet tissue paper. No Coil in this game is also a damn shame, so this hurts non-Mega sets that would want to utilize the stronger Attack stat, or to live physical hits better.

The biggest issue is not being able to run Xerneas when using Zygarde, and I see the former still being the best restricted in S3.

My initial idea for a Mega Zygarde build is something like this:

zygarde.gif
zygarde-complete.gif

Zygarde @ Zygardite
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD (you could invest more into SpA if it turns out 50% can survive Ice Beams and Xerneas's boosted Moonblast just fine w/ Light Screen)
Modest / Calm Nature
- Core Enforcer -> Nihil Light
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave / Focus Blast
- Protect

Max HP for a mon that eventually gains 216 base HP sounds odd, but you start in 50% form, which has base 108 HP. Not low by any means, but Garchomp's boosted Dragon Rush will still eat you alive if you don't invest in that 108 HP. While pre-mega, you hide behind Screens support to survive and become Complete, using Protect to block Ice-type moves. If Thousand Arrows actually grounded Flying-types in this game, I'd slot it in as a utility move to combo with Earth Power, but in ZA, it just hits them and that's it.

A physical non-Mega set would probably like Weakness Policy behind screens:

Zygarde @ Weakness Policy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage / Breaking Swipe
- Iron Head / Brick Break / Thousand Waves
- Protect

Zygarde needs dual STAB moves to deal with the Dragons and many Ground-weak Pokemon running around. Protect is also nice for Weakness Policy since the item can proc against a plus move while Protecting. The last move will depend on what you need. Iron Head, while it sucks, gives you coverage for Fairies and Ice-types. Brick Break for opposing screens while still hitting Ice-types. Thousand Waves could even be cool to trap foes in.

Unless someone else convinces me, I don't see a reason to use :zygarde-10%: form as the base.

Overall, Zygarde sounds cool on paper, but a lot is going against it, and I just don't see it replacing the non-restricted Garchomp, which has higher Attack, Swords Dance, and better item flexibility.
 
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10% has movement speed comparable to Gengar/Clef/Zard etc., whereas 50% is slow as hell and is in the class above Avalugg/Klefki/Floette. That and the ability to get to complete faster are valid reasons to run it, squish or not - this is where Sash Thousand Waves is cool.
 
Phenomenal post archiving the Season 2 meta, Blitz. I could not ask for a better capstone to jot down the stories of season 2 before it comes to pass. Great spat of preservation.

"Fake Steel-Type" is the perfect encapsulation of Excadrill. It really does feel like a frail little dude I have to baby whenever it’s out, instead of switching into scary threats like Garchomp and being just dandy like Skarmory. It’s a good lesson that resistances and typing can look really tantalizing on paper until you put the Pokemon to the test; I know it’s a bias I personally need to challenge more often.

Worthwhile mentioning that 10%, on top of the movement speed, has like 54 less hp you’re banking away for the complete mode. You could potentially try and finagle an endure set that goes hunting for the Glaceon or Garchomp, eats the hit worse to drop below 50% hp a little easier, and then get complete form where you get a giant health pack of a sudden extra 162 HP, guaranteeing you’re at least a little over half health for the mega. As for how practical that is? A little doubtful, but then maybe I can teach about Zygarde 10%’s funny gem.
 
TheMantyke said:
then maybe I can teach about Zygarde 10%’s funny gem.
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This was the convincing I needed to use 10%. Staring at that one, very special hexagon will give me the strength necessary to win S3 games.

In all seriousness, I forgot about Endure. I can see that helping 10% Zygarde get to Mega Zygarde much easier, and Sash Waves does admittedly sound cool.
 
1763652168017.gif

Zygarde-50 @ Assault Vest
Level: 50
Careful Nature
EVs: 124 HP / 188 Atk / 196 SpD
- Thousand Waves
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed

This Zygarde is dedicated to being disruptive, utilizing Thousand Waves to trap everything on the field and setting them all to be picked off by your other Pokemon. Its immense bulk lets it stick around on the field for a while and charge up the Mega Meter for your Mega carries. You'll ideally want to use this in the lead and it'll survive just about anything thrown your way - even a Life Orb Glaceon Ice Beam or a +1 Garchomp Dragon Rush, both while still in 50% Forme. Rest of the investment is thrown into Attack so it can claim to have SOME kind of offensive pressure. Zygarde-50's movement speed is as slow as sin, so Extreme Speed can be useful as a positioning tool to make up for that, and can help it kill steal things.
 
if anyone can post a team with Zygarde to use in season 3 to start with, which i can blatantly copy and use, it would be much appreciated. No Eeveelutions, please.
 
KCN said:
if anyone can post a team with Zygarde to use in season 3 to start with, which i can blatantly copy and use, it would be much appreciated. No Eeveelutions, please.
Click to expand...
I don't know why you don't want a Glaceon, which is gearing to be a staple mon with all the Zygarde planning to run around in S3, but here's a team I made that is similar to one I saw in the Smogon Legends ZA discord, except replace Glaceon with Clawitzer:

:zygarde: :zygarde-complete:
Zygarde @ Assault Vest
EVs: 124 HP / 188 Atk / 196 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Stone Edge
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed

:metagross: :metagross-mega:
Metagross @ Metagrossite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch

:clawitzer:
Clawitzer @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast

The Zygarde is Jibaku's AV set that can survive a Life Orb Glaceon's Ice Beam (not plus) while in 50% form. The aim is to use Zygarde to gain as much mega energy as possible for your Metagross, using Thousand Waves to trap foes in. Thousand Arrows is kinda not worth it - it's slow, and it's only neutral vs Skarmory, Talonflame, and Charizard - so we have Outrage for Garchomp and opposing Zygarde, Stone Edge for Charizard, Talonflame, Gyarados, and other Flying-types, and Extreme Speed to close the gap against enemies, since 50% form is as slow as molasses. The other two mons are basically standard.

Every team's gonna want a way to chunk Zygarde, especially considering how scary Thousand Waves is going to be. Mega Zygarde's Nihil Light always being a plus move is also pretty damn scary, despite the hefty cost to get Mega Zygarde on the field.
 
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KCN said:
appreciate the reply. consensus on the discord seems to be that Metagross is bad, and the mega even worse. you dont agree with this?
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I agree it's a bit overrated, but it's still one of the better Xerneas answers, and I can't see Xerneas's viability dropping whatsoever (it only gets better with Zygarde being a Dragon-type). If you want, you could replace Metagross with another mon that does well into Xern (Mega Venusaur, Mega Scolipede, Mega Scizor, etc).
 
The Mega definitely isn’t worse lol (we all ranked it as a high tier). It’s the biggest reason to use Meta to begin with, being the most splashable and easy-to-use Xern check compared to other Steel-type alternatives.
 
I want to point out that Metagross being “bad“ is a relative term, depending on where you are in terms of skill level and climbing the ranks. Against top competition, Metagross really becomes less and less viable, because it’s kind of a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none. Its overall kit and coverage gives it the ability to play on almost any team and against almost any opponent. But unfortunately, it doesn’t really have an advantage against anything except Xerneas. Which, don’t get me wrong, having an advantage against the central feature of the S2 meta, isn’t such a bad thing.

But when you start getting into the upper ranks, everyone has an answer to Xerneas, and everyone knows how to beat Metagross. In fact, they’ll start targeting you specifically because they know they can beat your Metagross. So if you wanna rank up easily in the lower ladder, and if you want a Pokémon that really only requires you to understand the type chart, and it gives you a fighting chance against anybody, and against lower players — then use Metagross and you’ll probably win. But as you get to the high ranks, most will agree it’s not a great Pokémon to have on your team, in comparison with other much more useful options for top level play.

In S3, I guess we’ll see if Zygarde fundamentally shifts things as much as we think it will, and perhaps Metagross will be a good option for even high-level play.
 
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