Other Pokemon of the Week [Starmie]

[firehusky]

There's definetely something it can take better with 84 defencw, common sense, but it doesn't really need to outspeed 70s. Breloom? Can do nothing
Bisharp? Sucker punch does more than Knock off anyways, so it'll always go for that. Never mind it doesn't 2hko at +2, I think. Personally i'd put it in defence or special defence

I need specific examples. Breloom can spore you and a few hits from bullet seed can finish you, Bisharp gets up to +2 and then goes for Iron Head, leaving a large dent in Garchomp. You also can't outspeed Mega Metagross prior to mega evolution, and it'll finish you with Ice Punch.
I'm saying this again, unless you can find a specific, relevant example where the 84 defense actually matters, you're better off putting it in speed. Yeah the extra 84 defense helps, but you need to find a specific calc. You've already ignored this request twice, so I'm assuming that you can't find one.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

You're rest talk, why would you care about spore? I'm on phone, how much does three bullet seed hits do? There are also other, better Bisharp counters. I can't find specific cals as of now, phone

 

[firehusky]

Seems like your always on your phone. Even if you're rest talk, breloom spores you and you'll have to rely on a 1/3 chance of getting dragon tail, because EQ is only a 3HKO, and Breloom outspeeds you.
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 140 Def Mega Garchomp: 156-189 (37.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Breloom gets a guaranteed 3HKO. Even if you hit it with a dragon tail, it'll come back in, and you're still asleep, and then it'll just finish you off. However, if you had those extra 84 speed EVs, you could've outsped breloom and 3HKOed it with earthquake before it 3HKOed you with bullet seed.

 

[pika pal]

You're rest talk, why would you care about spore? I'm on phone, how much does three bullet seed hits do? There are also other, better Bisharp counters. I can't find specific cals as of now, phone

Iron Head does the exact same damage as Sucker Punch, but consider something with this spread.
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 32 SpD / 84 Spe


Sucker Punch has only 8 PP, and if you're playing Resttalk, Mega Chomp is meant to have tanking potential. By being faster, Bisharp is FORCED to use Sucker Punch over Iron Head, and it really needs that priority against faster threats. I believe Sucker Punch also doesn't work while Chomp is asleep since Sleep Talk isn't an attacking move, which means he WILL pick Iron Head then, at which point Chomp wants to be faster to either Dragon Tail him out or just smack him with EQ. Unlike Suicune, the other thing I immediately think of with Resttalk tanking, Chomp doesn't have a way to boost its defenses since it can't do Mono Attack as well, meaning he has to minimize potential damage between Rests to stay alive. Not having to take additional Iron Heads from the Bisharp he's dealing with if he's asleep would seem like a good start.

You're rest talk, why would you care about spore?

Resttalk makes Spore even MORE dangerous, because as long as Garchomp is asleep, HE CAN'T HEAL, which severely cuts down on any ability to tank hits. While not fast against offense, Garchomp's speed is still relatively high for that of a tank, so if outspeeding makes him better at tanking targets (Breloom seems worthwhile for a Resttalker, and Bisharp is collateral), then those EVs do more for him in speed than Defense. It's the difference between surviving 3 hits slightly better, or just being fast enough to only get hit 2 times in the first place.

 

[BlueLobster]

If you are one of the (slightly insane) people to use Sticky Web, I say slightly insane due to M.Diancie + M.Sableye preventing it, you need one of MegaChomp or Kyu-B IMO. They are the best abusers of webs IMO (possibly along with Tyrantrum, Victini and Mega Pinsir). Of course you shouldn't really use webs (or at least webs without somethig to beat those that prevent/aren't affected by webs in this meta), but if you are like me, with a webs team, give it a shot. I have some sucessful SD M.Chomp sweeps with a webs team (not high on the ladder, my team was bad TBH), which l'll post when I'm on my computer.

TL:DR (99% of this post was jibberish): Mega Chomp is an amazing webs abuser, same goes for tailwind.

 

[firehusky]

lol I forgot yesterday :D

Base Stast: 79 HP / 100 Atk / 80 Def / 110 SpA / 90 SpD / 121 Spe
Ability: Regenerator

This weeks victim will be Tornadus-T! It has a great speed tier of 121, being able to outspeed a large portion of the metagame. It also learns many nice utility and coverage moves such as Heat Wave, Knock Off, U-turn, and Superpower. It is also a great user of Assault Vest, being able to pivot into a plethora of special attackers such as LO Gengar. Regenerator is also a great abilitiy, being able to shrug off Stealth Rocks and Life Orb. However, it has to rely on Hurricane's poor accuracy to do significant damage, while also hitting quite weak without a Life Orb. Let's discuss!​

 

[SketchUp]

The cool thing about Tornadus-Therian is that you have Hurricane + 3 moveslots that you can pick whatever your team needs the most, the moves that Tornadus-T can run, can be run together without many drawbacks and they work on both AV and LO sets (though some obviously work better on LO sets)

Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
EVs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-Turn
- Knock Off
- filler

Looking at the usage stats this is the most common set. It is a very good switchin for pokemon like Latios, Landorus and Gengar and it is able to grab momentum directly after switching in, almost losing nothing because of Regenerator. The most used filler move is Heat Wave, but HP Ice and Superpower are also worth a mention (don't run Timid when Superpower)

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 76 Atk / 216 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
-
-
-

With the 3 empty spots I am not saying you should only spam LO Hurricanes, but that there are many options that can be used to help the team the most. Knock Off and U-Turn are again by far the most used coverage moves, but one of them can be dropped for extra coverage because you have an option in mainly Focus Blast or Superpower and Heat Wave for the last slot, and some teams may prefer both coverage moves. HP Ice is also a move that gets surprisingly much usage (29%) so that is definitely also a good option to consider.

I see Tornadus-Therian often paired on bulky offensive teams with pokemon like Keldeo, Mega Altaria and Scizor as teammates, as Tornadus-Therian can punch holes in the walls (LO) clean late game (LO / AV) or be an excellent offensive pivot (AV and LO to a lesser extent) for these teams. Tornadus-Therian is not really a pokemon you build around, but it is a pokemon you put on a team if it needs a good offensive pivot, wallbreaker or cleaner and the flexibility of the coverage moves makes it a very good glue. It doesn't need very much support, as Regenerator helps with the Stealth Rock weakness and finding a resist to ice and rock type attacks isn't that difficult with a tier full of steel types, though the LO set might want some hazards control because LO + Stealth Rock can still wear Tornadus-T down.

 

[bludz]

Taunt is also pretty decent on the LO variants, although you do lose out on coverage it provides a type of utility that AV cannot. Plus fast taunts are great

 

[TheHoundofDoom]

The cool thing about Tornadus-Therian is that you have Hurricane + 3 moveslots that you can pick whatever your team needs the most, the moves that Tornadus-T can run, can be run together without many drawbacks and they work on both AV and LO sets (though some obviously work better on LO sets)

Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
EVs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-Turn
- Knock Off
- filler

Looking at the usage stats this is the most common set. It is a very good switchin for pokemon like Latios, Landorus and Gengar and it is able to grab momentum directly after switching in, almost losing nothing because of Regenerator. The most used filler move is Heat Wave, but HP Ice and Superpower are also worth a mention (don't run Timid when Superpower)

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 76 Atk / 216 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
-
-
-

With the 3 empty spots I am not saying you should only spam LO Hurricanes, but that there are many options that can be used to help the team the most. Knock Off and U-Turn are again by far the most used coverage moves, but one of them can be dropped for extra coverage because you have an option in mainly Focus Blast or Superpower and Heat Wave for the last slot, and some teams may prefer both coverage moves. HP Ice is also a move that gets surprisingly much usage (29%) so that is definitely also a good option to consider.

I see Tornadus-Therian often paired on bulky offensive teams with pokemon like Keldeo, Mega Altaria and Scizor as teammates, as Tornadus-Therian can punch holes in the walls (LO) clean late game (LO / AV) or be an excellent offensive pivot (AV and LO to a lesser extent) for these teams. Tornadus-Therian is not really a pokemon you build around, but it is a pokemon you put on a team if it needs a good offensive pivot, wallbreaker or cleaner and the flexibility of the coverage moves makes it a very good glue. It doesn't need very much support, as Regenerator helps with the Stealth Rock weakness and finding a resist to ice and rock type attacks isn't that difficult with a tier full of steel types, though the LO set might want some hazards control because LO + Stealth Rock can still wear Tornadus-T down.

.
The last move on the life orb set should either be taunt or superpower depending on your teams needs.

 

[firehusky]

The last move on the life orb set should either be taunt or superpower depending on your teams needs.

He literally said the exact same thing in his post. I prefer superpower tbh, as it's a much more reliable way of defeating a weakened ferro because you don't have to rely on hurricane's shaky accuracy. I'm not really a big fan of taunt, as it doesn't need it to clean or to be a pivot, and knock off + superpower already is annoying for chansey.

 

[AM]

I'm not a big fan of the 216 benchmark that people run on Torn-T to hit Scarf Tyranitar because you're getting outpaced by Adamant M-Lopunny 100% of the time, which can be seen on a variety of builds. Generally I'll try to hit 236 speed for the sake of alleviating pressure from that. Also HP Ice Torn-T is good, people should start using and preparing for that more.

 

[BlueLobster]

Heat Wave on Torn-T is p.good, it can bop Ferros and even Sciz, although it can't take BP very well. Of course rain Torn-T's don't want a fire move, but out of rain it's very useful coverage. It should be the go to filler if you are Ferro/Skarm weak.

 

[Stathakis]

I'm not a big fan of the 216 benchmark that people run on Torn-T to hit Scarf Tyranitar because you're getting outpaced by Adamant M-Lopunny 100% of the time, which can be seen on a variety of builds. Generally I'll try to hit 236 speed for the sake of alleviating pressure from that. Also HP Ice Torn-T is good, people should start using and preparing for that more.

just run max man, what the fuck are those 4 extra hp points doing for you when theres random 120 base speed mons to outspeed and enemy tornT to tie

 

[firehusky]

Why do I keep forgetting every monday ;_;

Base Stats: 100 HP / 134 Atk / 110 Def / 95 SpA / 100 SpD / 61 Spe
Ability: Sand Stream / Unnerve

This weeks victim will be Tyranitar (suggested by Dr Ciel)! Tyranitar has solid bulk and a great attack stat, while also being one of the two sandstorm summoners, along with Hippowdon. Tyranitar is also a rock type, basically giving it a free assault vest without the drawbacks of not being able to use support moves. Tyranitar is a very solid check to Flying-types such as Talonflame. It is commonly paired with Pokemon such as Mega Gardevoir and Landorus-I that appreciate pursuit support, as Tyranitar can handily remove the lati twins and Chansey with Pursuit. However, Tyranitar is weak to common priority moves such as Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, and Aqua Jet, while also having a poor base 61 speed stat. Let's discuss!​

 

[56k]

Over in the Metagame Discussion thread this was posted:

Only 3 TTar sets are viable:
- Support for Sand Rush users.
- Choice Scarf (fast trapping and Revenge-killing)
- Choice Band (slow, bulkier and very powerful trapper which becomes very useful against Talonflame and stall). The other sets you mentioned are very gimmicky.

And frankly I'm inclined to agree. MegaStone is probably not good because you'd rather use MegaCharY or MegaChomp on your team. For example, with CharY a pursuit set is mandatory to kill Latis. One question I'd like to raise though:

Choice Banded is always thought of as running 248 hp and 252 atk instead of running any speed investment. However, this misses out on outspeeding a few things like Magnezones, speedy Azumarills, adamant bisharps, and defensive Lando-T

252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: (82.6 - 97.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: (45.9 - 54%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: (33.7 - 40%) -- can 2hko on switch if weakened

Granted the full-on HP invested is attractive in order to take special attacks better but I think the aforementioned threats should be seriously considered in your decision making if you opt for a banded set. This is not to mention the multitudes of various bulky things with middling speed like heatran and rotom that can potentially be picked off.

 

[Celticpride]

Choice Band Tyranitar is a monster. While the standard Choice Scarf variant is fine, Banded TTar just hits like a truck. For reference, Band Tar can Purusit trap Slowbro, including Regen healing if my mental math is correct. That's something Scarf TTar can only dream of. A moveset of [Pursuit / Stone Edge / Aqua Tail / Superpower] can be really hard to switch into with a little good prediction. It's also a great Lati@s check and can take on non-U-Turn Talon on as well.

I feel that Mega Tyranitar gets a bad rap. It has some common checks, of course, but it also has a very customizable moveset where it can basically pick its checks and counters. Even if Scarf Lando is a problem, Rock Polish mitigates that to a degree because -1 Ice Punch is a guaranteed OHKO after Rocks. I have been a proponent of that set for a while and I still believe it has some OU mileage to be gained. It's also nice to have a lategame wincon that doesn't have to worry about Talonflame. It also has an enormous amount of bulk and can be pretty difficult to switch into even unboosted. 164 attack is just massive. For whatever reason people are cold on Mega Godzilla, but it's closer to a top threat than most people make it out to be.

firehusky: 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 228-270 (66.8 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
O_O

And considering TTar should be running Fire Punch most of the time Scizor can actually be handed pretty well.

 

[firehusky]

I'd probably say the lack of mega ttar atm is it's opportunity cost. Normal ttar basically does everything mega ttar does, except ddance and rock polish, while mega ttar also faces tons of competition from other lategame sweepers that are immune to thunder wave such as mega diancie and landorus-i. Good bulk is also one of mega ttar's best assets, the thing can pretty much live every priority hit not named mach punch, iirc even CB scizor's bullet punch, one of the strongest priority moves in OU.

 

[heritage]

Hi, I'm actually going to be talking about Mega Tyranitar, since not only is it a vastly under-rated Pokemon, it's extremely scary and just plain threating to be fighting against. Upon Mega Evolving. Tyranitar keeps it's great ability and decent typing, as well as still getting a Sandstorm Special Defense bulk. Combine this with is absolutely phenomenal 100/150/120 bulk, this thing takes hits like a tank. It's incredible 164 Attack means there isn't a lot that actually wants to switch into it. Common Pokémon, such as Ferrothorn, Landorus-Therain and Skarmory, can be screwed over from Fire Blast or Ice Beam coming from Mega Tyranitar's usable 95 base Special Attack stat. The biggest problem with Mega Tyranitar is its typing. It's a double edged sword in my opinion. On one end, it provides a great check to things like Talonflame and Mega Pinsir (If carrying Earthquake and not Close Combat), but on the other hand, if you smack it hard enough with a Fighting or Water type attack, even with that great bulk, it's still going to be taking a lot of damage. With Scald becoming even more prominent, it's has a hard time being able to freely attack. It also takes up a Mega Slot for something that Tyranitar does as well. Not nearly as well, but Tyranitar still has everything Mega Tyranitar has in a lower value.
A set that I've been watching grow in popularity recently is a Rock Polish set. Not only does it patch up Mega Tyranitar's medicore Speed stat, but it makes it an absolute monster, being able to attack from both sides of the spectrum and being able to outspeed many things that would commonly check it.
I'll leave you with this.

Wall of calcs

0- SpA Mega Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 180-214 (53.8 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Mega Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 208-248 (59 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Mega Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 268-316 (70.1 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage

252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 171-202 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Mega Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 204-244 (57.9 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 180-213 (61.6 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage

252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 138-163 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 199-235 (46 - 54.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Black Sludge recovery

0- SpA Mega Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 172-204 (45.2 - 53.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 160-189 (39.6 - 46.7%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery

 

[TheHoundofDoom]

I feel like assault vest tyranitar should be mentioned as well. It can take sp attack hits a whole lot better, while still being able to wreck stuff.

a move set that should be used should be.

-stone edge
-pursuit
-fire blast
-ice punch
248 hp/ 252 sp def/ 8 def
Nature: Careful


You should still get tyranitar away from any pokemon with a potential fighting move, so pokemon like taloneflame will do the trick.
rocks are always appreciated, and a cleric like unaware clefable makes a great partner as clefable deals with the fighting types he has trouble dealing with while tyranitar gets rid of scizor nicely. Now this tyranitar will take any sp defensive move while still haves that decent physical bulk that banded scizor cannot take out.

Look at these damage calcs to show how bulky this thing is

252 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tyranitar: 200-236 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tyranitar: 296-350 (73.4 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 218-260 (54 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 258-306 (64 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 133-157 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO

Feel free to tell me to change anything about this set

 

[bludz]

I'm a fan of Banded Tyranitar, it's an amazing wallbreaker and as Celticpride mentioned can actually pursuit trap bulkier psychic types as well. I generally run enough speed to creep Skarmory and dump the rest into bulk.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 156-184 (46.7 - 55%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO

Seriously this thing is crazy powerful. Scarf is definitely the best set in the current meta but I think Band is the most slept on.

 

[The Great Gastly]

Is a mixed attacking Sash lead viable, at all? It can surprise some of its common checks like Ferrothorn, Gliscor, Landorus, Scizor, and possibly more that I can't think of atm.

Something like...

Tyranitar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 28 Atk / 228 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake / Dark Pulse / Crunch / T-Wave... yada yada
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam

Thoughts? SR is the obligatory choice for a sash lead, EQ is good for Heatrans (but can be dropped for Dark STAB or w/e), and the two special moves hit the targets I mentioned earlier. I just made up an EV spread, so that could probably stand to be optimized. lol

 

[DarkNostalgia]

is brazilian tyranitar still around? Seems kinda.. gimmicky

 

[firehusky]

TheHoundofDoom
AV Ttar may sound good, getting a great boost to special defense thanks to AV and sand, however, it's actually mediocre at best. Losing out on running an item such as scarf or band isn't very nice, and by running AV, ttar can't run stealth rock either, one of it's best assets. Also, why ice punch? Ice beam is usually better to lure in lando-t and gliscor (although many people won't do that nowadays due to how common ice beam is).

 

[Karxrida]

Ice Punch does more to neutral targets and SpD Gliscor.

 

[Arca10]

Ice Punch and Ice Beam are identical if you go Sassy instead of Careful, and they're both 2HKOs regardless.

Edit: Identical against SpD Gliscor**

0 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 228-272 (64.7 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 228-272 (64.7 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

What neutral targets is Ice Punch hitting that Stone Edge doesn't hit equally hard? I know it's not very reliable, but Ice Beam does a huge amount more to Landorus-T:

-1 0 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 148-176 (38.7 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 296-352 (77.4 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 300-356 (94 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

-1 0 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 200-236 (62.6 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO