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Pokemon Platinum - The definitive thread.
- Thread starter Masamune
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How did you not see this coming, they've done it every other generation.
Serene Grace Seed Flare? I think Nintendo just ruined the new Shaymin...
Every team had better pack a 4x Grass resist, and even then, you'd better give it Sp. Def EVs. If its Sp. Atk is any higher than base 100, something tells me this thing might end up in ubers.
If it weren't for Stealth Rock being everywhere, I could actually picture Moltres being a decent counter to it, with Pressure and Seed Flare's low PP and all.
Every team had better pack a 4x Grass resist, and even then, you'd better give it Sp. Def EVs. If its Sp. Atk is any higher than base 100, something tells me this thing might end up in ubers.
If it weren't for Stealth Rock being everywhere, I could actually picture Moltres being a decent counter to it, with Pressure and Seed Flare's low PP and all.
I guess that the new Shaymin is pretty good, but it's probably not going to end up in ubers (it's most likely going to get some serious testing first at least).
The 4x Ice weakness and Stealth Rock weakness make it really hard to switch this thing in at all, especially if they were going to focus on Speed and Sp.Atk more for this guy. Usually that means they're going to take some out of his defenses, which makes him nice and easy to kill, compared to the 4x Ice weak Dragons. Being weak to 3 of the most common attacking types in the game (Fire, Ice, Rock), makes for a terrible defensive typing. I agree that the 80% chance of a -2 SDef drop is pretty harsh from Seed Flare, but still one must consider how bad of an offensive type Grass is, being resisted by 7 types (I know it's still a 90 BP move after resistance and STAB).
This thing will most likely be under a lot of debate if it gets Growth, Nasty Plot or Calm Mind though. I just hope that they actually take stats from its defenses instead of its physical attack to add to the SAtk and Speed.
The 4x Ice weakness and Stealth Rock weakness make it really hard to switch this thing in at all, especially if they were going to focus on Speed and Sp.Atk more for this guy. Usually that means they're going to take some out of his defenses, which makes him nice and easy to kill, compared to the 4x Ice weak Dragons. Being weak to 3 of the most common attacking types in the game (Fire, Ice, Rock), makes for a terrible defensive typing. I agree that the 80% chance of a -2 SDef drop is pretty harsh from Seed Flare, but still one must consider how bad of an offensive type Grass is, being resisted by 7 types (I know it's still a 90 BP move after resistance and STAB).
This thing will most likely be under a lot of debate if it gets Growth, Nasty Plot or Calm Mind though. I just hope that they actually take stats from its defenses instead of its physical attack to add to the SAtk and Speed.
Oh man, Seed Flare and Air Slash with Serene Grace? Heatran usage is going to be through the roof.
They are saying that the Origin Form is for use in the torn world only? I wonder if that means we won't be able to use it in battles, or at least without some lame item attached.
The new sprites look great. I hate how Shaymin and Giratina were just sitting there doing nothing.
They are saying that the Origin Form is for use in the torn world only? I wonder if that means we won't be able to use it in battles, or at least without some lame item attached.
The new sprites look great. I hate how Shaymin and Giratina were just sitting there doing nothing.
I can see it being an absolute terror with Specs, though. Though Rhyperior was overhyped as well and failed hard, so we'll have to wait and see.
I'm not saying it shouldn't begin its run in OU, but so did Manaphy and that was promptly banned.
Knowing Nintendo the atk will most likely stay no matter how useless it is.(Return/Giga Impact..) Grass/Flying is possibly the worst defensive typing ever being resistant to only Fight and nothing else useful.
I was hoping for Grass/Ground so it has Earth Power instead and better typing but that would make it Uber for sure.
Seed Flare/Earth Power/Hp Ice/Rest Anyone?! :P
I was hoping for Grass/Ground so it has Earth Power instead and better typing but that would make it Uber for sure.
Seed Flare/Earth Power/Hp Ice/Rest Anyone?! :P
Why would you use Rest, when it no longer has Natural Cure?
Seed Flare/Air Slash/HP Ground seems quite inviting, though. Certainly fixes the little Heatran problem. And I'm sure they'll give this thing Roost, being a Flying-type.
I was kind of hoping for Brave Bird, to be quite honest.
Seed Flare/Air Slash/HP Ground seems quite inviting, though. Certainly fixes the little Heatran problem. And I'm sure they'll give this thing Roost, being a Flying-type.
I was kind of hoping for Brave Bird, to be quite honest.
I know this has been said 100 times, but Seed Flare and Air Slash with Serene Grace seems really close to uber to me. Especially if this Pokemon gets Roost. If it will be more focused on Sp atk and Spd (!), this could be very dangerous. Outspeeding Garchomp always helps and IF it becomes faster than Scarf Modest Heatran (probably not), this will definitely be used a lot.
I think that the new form will greatly improve upon Shaymin's... mediocrity. I do wish it looked a bit better though.
I don't, however, think it will gain access to too many new moves. Unless they somehow change it so that it is all-out offensive, it will probably have the same moveset, with a few flying additions (Roost & Air Slash, anyone?) So all of you who are wishing for Nasty Plot or Calm Mind, I just don't think it will fit. IMO.
That being said, if they want to give it a ridiculous amount of improvements, Earthquake would be good. Mixed Sweeper anybody? Sadly, I can't see that puff ball shaking the ground any day soon. People should go for more HP Ground Shaymin now, as Heatran will counter it fully otherwise.
Seed Flare / Air Slash / HP Ground / Roost would be nice.
I can see its base stats changing to this:
100 HP
100 ATK
80 DEF
120 Sp.ATK
80 Sp.DEF
120 SPD
I don't, however, think it will gain access to too many new moves. Unless they somehow change it so that it is all-out offensive, it will probably have the same moveset, with a few flying additions (Roost & Air Slash, anyone?) So all of you who are wishing for Nasty Plot or Calm Mind, I just don't think it will fit. IMO.
That being said, if they want to give it a ridiculous amount of improvements, Earthquake would be good. Mixed Sweeper anybody? Sadly, I can't see that puff ball shaking the ground any day soon. People should go for more HP Ground Shaymin now, as Heatran will counter it fully otherwise.
Seed Flare / Air Slash / HP Ground / Roost would be nice.
I can see its base stats changing to this:
100 HP
100 ATK
80 DEF
120 Sp.ATK
80 Sp.DEF
120 SPD
I thought Aeroblast could be an option, but the high critical hit ratio and the base power would make Shaymin uber in my opinion. Of course I cannot say anything about Shaymin yet, but I hope Nintendo won't make this new Shaymin too good. I hope it will get a nice spot in the OU usage top 20 or something. I'm looking forward to Pokemon Platinum.
Heatran's max speed is 278 and with scarf it hits 417. That means Shaymin would need more than 130 base speed to beat it.
Modest scarftran hits 379, so shaymin would have to at least tie with Weavile at 125 base (and have a +speed nature).
I'd imagine that both have a decent chance of a OHKO on Shaymin in the event of a significant spdef drop.
Scarf Shaymin would solve this problem, but that leaves roost out.
Modest scarftran hits 379, so shaymin would have to at least tie with Weavile at 125 base (and have a +speed nature).
I'd imagine that both have a decent chance of a OHKO on Shaymin in the event of a significant spdef drop.
Scarf Shaymin would solve this problem, but that leaves roost out.
You're forgetting an Earthquake immunity, but I doubt Shaymin will be using any defensive options beyond Roost (If it gets it).
Wow, serene grace. Every counter that switches in has a good 80% chance of a sharp special defense drop... Oh well, I'm sure they'll be at least one Achilles heel on this thing beyond the severe Ice weakness.
If not, we'll still have an impeccable uber pokemon and a whole new set of moves for normal shaymin.
Heh Brave Bird Shaymin..
Hp Ground would certainly fix the problem but I still found that carrying Dugtrio solves the problem better. Hp Ice will be much more useful once its faster than all 3 dragons. Also Zapdos is no longer a solid counter being slower and koed after a sp.def drop. Oh the excitment. :naughty:
@Mantyke yea, I forgot Earth.
People, stop overrating Shaymin. Unless it gets Plot or Earth Power I wouldn't start worrying yet. As of now it's stuck to Seed Flare/Air Slash/HP something/Psychic or whatnot. Without HP Ice Zapdos walks over it. Without HP Ground, Heatran/Jirachi/Metagross walks over it. Without Choice Specs, Blissey runs all over it. With Choice Specs, it must be careful not to mispredict because Tyranitar + Stealth Rock can really hurt it. Besides, the game isn't even out yet, nor do we have enough information. For all we know movepool changes can change everything.
There's always the chance that it could end up being too good for OU but not good enough for Ubers.
Who cares? If it's too good for OU, it's not going to be in OU.
You mean like Wobbuffet? There is no "not good enough for ubers." If it's too good for OU, it is by definition uber.
He means Shaymin won't be good enough for ubers. It means he thinks Shaymin cannot be used effectively in ubers.
He means that we'll have two worthless Shaymins that way (argueably).
Exactly.
Here's a thought. Might other pokemon have different forms in the torn world? Like Dialga and Palkia?
I certainly hope not. This whole "alternate forme" thing is going to get old really quickly. With Deoxys it was pretty cool, because it was unique. Then we got Giratina, which was unexpected, but still okay. Now we have Shaymin as well, which was completely out of left field, and rumors that even Regigigas may have an alternate forme of some sort. It's almost a given that there will be fifth generation "alternate forme" legendaries as well, since they seem to have started a trend.
We don't need everything under the sun to have an alternate forme is what I'm getting at.
We don't need everything under the sun to have an alternate forme is what I'm getting at.
If this thing has at least 120 Sp. Atk and 120 Speed, I'll die a happy man (enough Speed to outspeed Deoxys-S using Scarf, and enough Sp. Atk with a +Nature to OHKO Garchomp with HP Ice 70).
100/100/80/120/80/120? Probably.
100/100/80/120/80/120? Probably.
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