Pokemon RBY In-game Tiers

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IMO it's not even a question that using items on full HP Pokemon wasn't Game Freak's intention. Glitch/bug/whatever you want to call it.
Same can be said for X Accuracy + Fissure/Horn Drill, I'm quite sure this wasn't GF's intention either.

grinding in Pokemon Mansion isn't part of the question since you do have to go through it anyway, so why not use it to train Omastar?

yes i admit rock type isn't everything but Omanyte takes only 10 levels to evolve, something that is piss easy to do because of Pokemon Mansion/Blaine. He also ends up stronger than Blastoise too.
 

Availability: Right before the seventh Gym. Comes at Level 30, so most likely weaker than the rest of your team.
Stats: Good Attack and Excellent Speed, but that is it.
Movepool: Can have STAB Fly right off the bat, but that's it. Can get Fire Blast to Pokemon with lesser Special, but Fly already hits Grass & Fire types anyway.
Type: Rock / Flying is okay, its his stats that hinder him.
Match-ups:
Blaine Even with his Rock typing, Fire Blast is still going to hurt him quite a bit. He outspeeds Blaine's Pokemon though, and can hit them with STAB Fly.
- Giovanni: Even with his Resistance to Giovanni's omnipresent Normal Moves, they can still hurt Aerodactyl due to his mediocre defenses.
- Loreli: Loses here.
- Bruno: Does well, but will need Fire Blast if he wants to stand up to Onix.
- Agatha: Out-speeds her frail ghosts and hit with Fly, does okay here.
- Lance: Gyarados has Hydro Pump, and Aerodactyl doesn't like taking Hyper Beams from the rest of his Party.
- Gary: It can beat Pidgeot, but that was about it.
Conclusion: He's fast and has STAB Fly, but that is about it. He also comes at a level lower than the rest of your team and is frail even to resisted hits. A Pokemon such as Dodrio can easily do what Aerodactyl can do but come earlier and be more useful.
FINAL VERDICT: Low Tier
 
My first post, please say if I get anything wrong:

Raticate-High tier
Availability-Not long after second gym
Stats-Above Average attack and boastable speed, and mediocre defence and hp
Movepool-Learns hyper fang before evolving, one of the most powerful attacks in the early game, and can learn supe fang which is potentially useful in whittling down legendaries to extremely low levels of hp
Matchup-
Rockets: Easily beats rockets grunts, in both game corner and Silph Co.
Sabrina:With help from a few potions (low spec), can exploit low defences of psychics in yellow with hyperfang
Erika:Better choices available, but a solid Plan B should she get an edge on you
Blaine:Same as Erika, but even less useful, most water types excel here with Surf
Giovanni:Don't bother, switch raticate for an altogether better choice of pokémon, loses usefulness dramactically from here on out
Entire Elite 4:As said above, don't even bother bringing it to the fight.Much better choices are out there.
Final Comments-Brilliant in the early game, loses it's shine as better options become available as the game progresses
 
My first post, please say if I get anything wrong:

Raticate-High tier
Availability-Not long after second gym
Stats-Above Average attack and boastable speed, and mediocre defence and hp
Movepool-Learns hyper fang before evolving, one of the most powerful attacks in the early game, and can learn supe fang which is potentially useful in whittling down legendaries to extremely low levels of hp
Matchup-
Rockets: Easily beats rockets grunts, in both game corner and Silph Co.
Sabrina:With help from a few potions (low spec), can exploit low defences of psychics in yellow with hyperfang
Erika:Better choices available, but a solid Plan B should she get an edge on you
Blaine:Same as Erika, but even less useful, most water types excel here with Surf
Giovanni:Don't bother, switch raticate for an altogether better choice of pokémon, loses usefulness dramactically from here on out
Entire Elite 4:As said above, don't even bother bringing it to the fight.Much better choices are out there.
Final Comments-Brilliant in the early game, loses it's shine as better options become available as the game progresses
Welcome to these forums, I hope you have a wonderful time here. :)

On the subject of Raticate's movepool, he can learn BubbleBeam, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt via TMs. All of which would help him against Erika, Blaine, Giovanni, and various Elite 4 Pokemon.

Although there are arguably other Pokemon that are more deserving of having those TMs.
 
Lapras-Higher tier
Stats-High hp, defense and Spec.
Availability-Events beyond the "rescuing" of Mr.Fuji
Movepool-Can easily incapacitate enemies with sing or confuse ray. Lack of speed is compensated by Body Slam's (strangely powerful with Lapras, despite being more of a spec attacker) paralysis effect. Learns hydro pump and ice beam, both of which are devastating with Lapras. The use of surf, though not as powerful as hydro pump still packs a mean punch and has adequate PP to make up for hydro pump's measly 5. To make the most of the Blizzard TM, teach it Lapras, as it can easily give alakazam's psychic a good run for it's money. Lapras can learn several TM's that opponents won't expect such ad earthquake, fire blast and thunder bolt, giving Lapras a versatile edge.
Matchup-
Sabrina: High spec combined with body slam and ice beam will eat her team up in either versions.
Blaine:Sufficient training and surf will call for an easy win here
Koga:Another easy win, I forgot to mention earlier.Lapras can learn psychic. 'Nuff said.
Giovanni:Again, easy win. Ice,Water and Psychic TM should make this a breeze
Elite 4(excluding lorelei): Psychic TM for agatha, and perhaps earthquake on her non ghosts. Water and psychic for Bruno, but be careful with the ice type vs. fighting.
As for Lance, Ice Beam and Blizzard will really mess him up.
Gary- Unless Gary sends out either magneton or jolteon (yellow only), you can mostly hit SE hits, or exploit low defence and spec stats on all other possible options in his team.
Final Opinion-Though requiring lotsof work due to the late nature of recieving lapras, the training pays off. Pulverises almost any opponent. Combine with alakazam for a powerful team.
 
I haven't played in a while, but from memory:

Geodude for mid tier.
Availability Mt. Moon, and if you ever want to pick one up, just head to the nearest non-Diglet cave.
Stats High attack and defense, good HP, bad speed and abysmal special. It seriously gets 1HKO'd by Absorb.
Movepool[/c] Gets Rock Throw pretty early and naturally learns Earthquake at level 36. You'll probably have to use a Dig TM, and it's a great candidate for Rock Slide. It also gets Selfdestruct/Explosion, for what it's worth. Great coverage with Rock Slide and Earthquake gives it enough space to learn Strength without too much hassle.
Typing Rock/Ground. Amazing against normal, poison, electric, and fire, but it gives two pretty bad 4x weaknesses. Anyone whose steamrolled Geodudes using Rattata with Water Gun knows what an Achilles heel this is.
Match ups:
Misty: Don't bother. Gets 1HKO'd by everything.
Lt. Surge: Voltorb's SonicBoom might be a problem if you didn't teach it dig, but none of his other Pokemon can touch him.
Erika: Don't bother. Any grass attack makes Geodude go bye-bye. I guess you could use Selfdestruct to take out one of 'em.
Team Rocket: Resists all the Rattata, Ekans, and Zubats TR can throw at you. Zubat's confusion will be annoying, but Graveler's high defense means that it won't be self-inflicting too much damage.
Koga: Graveler resists Poison, and hits KOs anything of Koga's with Earthquake.
Sabrina: Amazing attack would be great if it had the Special to survive an attack. It might live to take out one Pokemon, but will be KO'd before it can beat a second.
Blaine: Lulz. Just watch out for Fire Spin, although it has to miss at some point, and will do next to no damage.
Lorelei: Don't bother. Rock Slide hits everything for super-effective, but Graveler gets out-sped and KO'd by powerful water and ice attacks.
Bruno: Beats both Onix, and can tank a hit from either of the Hitmons or Machamp, but can't 1HKO.
Agatha: Earthquake hits everything super-effectively except for Golbat, which Rock Slide takes care of. You will have to make ample use of the Pokeflute, and confusion hax will be annoying.
Lance: Gyarados beats it easily, but it walls the rest (barring Dragon Rage's 40 HP,) and even hits Dragonite and Aerodactyl with Rock Slide. Aerodactyl can still cause trouble with Supersonic, and Dragonite can use Barrier to increase the number of Rock Slides it can take.
Rival: Beats: Pidgeot, Rhydon (you probably outspeed, so you don't have to worry about Horn Drill), Arcanine, Exeggutor (with Pokeflute. Barrage and Stomp does squat), and Charizard (when Fire Spin misses). Loses to: Alakazam, Gyarados, Venusaur, and Blastoise.
Conclusion: It's slow, but its amazing defense and good attack allow you to power through the mid-game, so long as you keep it away from special attacks. If you can evolve it into Golem, it beats a good portion of the Elite Four, but as Graveler, it can find itself being outclassed by the late-game. A great tank, but its many bad special weaknesses and horrible special means that it is not a very versatile Pokemon.
Overall: Mid tier.
 

Chou Toshio

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revenant wings/simicCombine-- we already have entries on lapras and geodude (both are mid tier, lapras may go lower...). Also raticate is definitely not high tier, maybe mid tier just because it's available so early...
 
My bad on the repeat entry, I didn't read many other posts. And can you do me a HUGE favour. can you explain what people mean by"tier", as I have NO idea what it means. thanks in advance. ;)
 
I mentioned on the last page that I felt like playtesting some Pokemon in Yellow, so if you guys have any ideas, feel free to suggest some. The only restrictions are that I don't want anything obviously horrible (Safari Zone Rhyhorn, Porygon, etc.), and I'd prefer not to use Pokemon that have already been used by others in this thread. I'll be giving my reviews on each when I finish.

Pikachu
Mankey
Bulbasaur
Ponyta
Rhydon (trade)
 
I mentioned on the last page that I felt like playtesting some Pokemon in Yellow, so if you guys have any ideas, feel free to suggest some. The only restrictions are that I don't want anything obviously horrible (Rhyhorn, Porygon, etc.), and I'd prefer not to use Pokemon that have already been used by others in this thread. I'll be giving my reviews on each when I finish.

Pikachu
Mankey
Bulbasaur
Ponyta
I see you accepted my Ponyta suggestion, awesome! Will you be using it against Erika? You get Ponyta on the Biker Street, which means you'll have to sidestep Erika for a while...but Ponyta grinds nicely there. Also keep in mind Rapidash is fast and STOMP has Flinch Hax.

You mentioned Rhyhorn being horrible (which it is in R&B). You can actually get a low leveled Rhydon via trade on Cinnabair Island, maybe try that? You'll have Rock Slide and Earthquake by then, and at the worst, he'll be able to wall Gary's Jolteon.
 
@Hemp Man
I'm not optimistic about how Rhydon will do, but somebody's got to see how useful it might be. Accepted.

@Everybody
I'm going on a trip for 2 days, so my sixth party member will (probably) be something like Abra (no trade) or some non-Squirtle Water-type. See you in 2 days' time!
 
@Hemp Man
I'm not optimistic about how Rhydon will do, but somebody's got to see how useful it might be. Accepted.
You have to trade Golduck to get it. If you Surf in that patch of Water right before Vermillion, its full of nothing but Psyduck and Golduck.

I'm not too optimistic about it either. It might do okay against Blaine (Type advantage, but low Special) and Giovanni. The E4 will be tough as well, as I think Agatha's team now packs Mega Drains. But hey, I'd like to hear your commentary on it.
 
From what I know, Venusaur is best used to abuse Leech Seed + Toxic. It's bugged in Gen 1 such that Toxic and Leech Seed share the same counter for some reason. LS is notable in that only Venusaur and lolexeggutor gets it, so its a pretty cool niche for him. LS also restores the full amount of HP so if its supposed to deal say a metric fuckton of damage but the opponent only has like ~1 HP left, it will still heal you a metric fuckton.

also im totally not going to mention how i actually solo'd Yellow!Sabrina/Blaine with Venusaur. because leech seed/toxic is seriously that awesome. and gay.
late to the party but no no no no, i'm 100% sure toxic/leech seed is not "the way to go" in game for anything. despite the glitch, it still takes 3-4 turns to KO something with toxic/leech seed. if venusaur is doing that, then it's worse than anything that can just KO things in 2 hits (hate to say it again but far fucking fetch'd beats this), and that's even forgetting about the brazilions of poison and/or grass enemies it doesn't work against.

as for the potion at full health trick, last i checked the game explicitely tells you "it has no effect" or something similar, while it does raise pikachu's happiness. the potion isn't used up. this shows to me that this happiness effect is in fact unintentional and thus can be ruled a glitch.

to sum it up, yellow bulbasaur is probably lucky if it's even in the same tier as oddish.
 

NixHex

We shall see ;) metadata phorically speaking
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What are you doing "stalling" with Venusaur when you can just about 2HKO everything with Razor Leaf? And what are you doing on each turn, spamming Tackle?
 
late to the party but no no no no, i'm 100% sure toxic/leech seed is not "the way to go" in game for anything. despite the glitch, it still takes 3-4 turns to KO something with toxic/leech seed. if venusaur is doing that, then it's worse than anything that can just KO things in 2 hits (hate to say it again but far fucking fetch'd beats this), and that's even forgetting about the brazilions of poison and/or grass enemies it doesn't work against.
I noticed you mentioned Far Fetched. He is actually worse in Yellow than in R&B. While in R&B you can get at least get the traded one that levels up faster, the one in Yellow you find in the wild and its rare.

as for the potion at full health trick, last i checked the game explicitely tells you "it has no effect" or something similar, while it does raise pikachu's happiness. the potion isn't used up. this shows to me that this happiness effect is in fact unintentional and thus can be ruled a glitch.
My Pikachu is generally happen by the time I get there. But then again, I usually solo with Pikachu up until that point, and yes, Pikachu can beat Brock.

to sum it up, yellow bulbasaur is probably lucky if it's even in the same tier as oddish.
Eh, outside of Stun Spore, I'm not too keen on using Oddish over Bulbasaur. Bellsprout is definitely some competition though.
 

atsync

Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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I don't think it even matters if we call the whole "Pikachu's happiness is raised by items that have no effect" thing a glitch or not. I know you guys said no glitches but Pikachu is the only pokemon with a happiness variable, Bulbasaur is the only noteworthy thing to come out of it, and you don't have to go out of your way to abuse it, so I don't see any harm in allowing it when we tier Bulbasaur, and it certainly can't be compared to duplicating items or getting powerful pokemon with ridiculous levels.

I also agree that Leech Seed + Toxic is stupid for ingame. If that strategy is honestly the most efficient method you have to take down a particular pokemon then you clearly aren't playing with efficiency in mind.
 
Well, I don't like being forced to use Pikachu* which is quite bad mon ~3rd badge already and things aren't going to be any better for him later on... Running away from every second battle in Mt Moon isn't my ideal image of training starter too. Same with abusing obvious bug. I usually like to have balanced team that doesn't rely on 1 mon, so it's harder to be overleveled.
Aside from that, Bulbasaur isn't anything special on his own - he needs 20 lvls to get good move (resisted by 66/150 of the game) and that's it for him, nothing more, typing is rather bad.

*I tried mono run with him, gave up at Giovanni when this little (BAN ME PLEASE) was lv 80 and couldn't do a thing vs Rhydon (Slam 9hko? EQ 1hko in return). Lapras L16 saved me (Sing + Surf). He was necessary vs Bruno's Onixes too. Final team: Pikachu lv 86 and Lapras Lv 18. I will never forget Hitmonchan lv 56 hitting Lapras lv 16 for 16 damage with Ice Punch. Glorious. Oh yeah, Lapras should be high tier (Venusaur and Gyarados are better? lol no). Low lvl is no problem as he easily ohkos much stronger Pokemon with Surf and survives many attacks, Sing is great too in-game.
 

Chou Toshio

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potion function or no, bulbasaur is definitely not one of the best pokes in Pokemon Yellow. Frankly, I would take the Oddish. Bulbasaur's got to be mid-tier at best (low tier seems kind of low though...). It's like, the bottom of the mid-tier maybe...?

Frankly, just not very keen on bulbasaur / charmander / squirtle in Yellow at all...
 
I noticed you mentioned Far Fetched. He is actually worse in Yellow than in R&B. While in R&B you can get at least get the traded one that levels up faster, the one in Yellow you find in the wild and its rare.
That should change Farfetch'd in Yellow position, but it was just an example of a Pokemon that's generally being given a bad rap when he's doing better than lol Leech Seed + Toxic.

My Pikachu is generally happen by the time I get there. But then again, I usually solo with Pikachu up until that point, and yes, Pikachu can beat Brock.
Too bad this list assumes some degree of efficiency as well as a team of more than 1 guy when playing, not to mention it costs a bunch to buy the Potions needed.

Eh, outside of Stun Spore, I'm not too keen on using Oddish over Bulbasaur. Bellsprout is definitely some competition though.
What you're keen or not too keen on doesn't really matter in the context of a tier list setting though. Oddish does not require you to exploit a glitch or solo the game up to Cerulean with Pikachu, has a bazillion more PP, gets some HP back through Absorb, and learns Sleep Powder earlier. It probably doesn't even have a level disadvantage when you factor in Pikachu's happiness.

atsync said:
I don't think it even matters if we call the whole "Pikachu's happiness is raised by items that have no effect" thing a glitch or not. I know you guys said no glitches but
This is where you're tripping. If it's a glitch, then it can't be used for this tier list. Either someone needs to tell me why this is not a glitch ("it doesn't give you infinite Rare Candy" and "everyone knows it" are not the correct criteria here), or this list needs to allow glitches to some extent.

so I don't see any harm in allowing it when we tier Bulbasaur, and it certainly can't be compared to duplicating items or getting powerful pokemon with ridiculous levels.
Wikipedia said:
In video games, a glitch is a programming error which results in behavior not intended by the programmers.
What the consequences of the glitch are is irrelevant. It doesn't change anything about the tiering position of any Pokemon if we use the MissingNo. glitch ONLY to clone drugs to give to each of our Pokemon, or if we clone the Skull Bash and Egg Bomb TMs but no other ones. But we're still not doing that, because they're glitches.

I know it might not seem like a big deal when we're just talking about Yellow Bulbasaur, but for something like this it's important to stay consistent.
 
That should change Farfetch'd in Yellow position, but it was just an example of a Pokemon that's generally being given a bad rap when he's doing better than lol Leech Seed + Toxic.
Yeah, but I just remembered that Farfeth'd is different in Yellow, and wanted to point that out.


Too bad this list assumes some degree of efficiency as well as a team of more than 1 guy when playing, not to mention it costs a bunch to buy the Potions needed.
You can do it with just 1 Potion.

Oh, and I do use a team of 6. Cerulean is usually when I stop solo'ing with Pikachu, and that is still early in the game.



Oddish does not require you to exploit a glitch or solo the game up to Cerulean with Pikachu, has a bazillion more PP, gets some HP back through Absorb, and learns Sleep Powder earlier. It probably doesn't even have a level disadvantage when you factor in Pikachu's happiness.
Well I agree early Oddish is better, I think the instant Ivysaur gets Razor Leaf he pulls through as the better choice.

HOWEVER, I think by that time in the game, having a Grass/Poison type starts to lose its value. Later Gym leaders such as Sabrina and Blaine will give it a hard time. I think Yellow Bulbasaur is probably around Mid Tier, which is decent.

Edit: By the way, what did you think of my Aerodactyl review?

*I tried mono run with him, gave up at Giovanni when this little (BAN ME PLEASE) was lv 80 and couldn't do a thing vs Rhydon (Slam 9hko? EQ 1hko in return). Lapras L16 saved me (Sing + Surf). He was necessary vs Bruno's Onixes too. Final team: Pikachu lv 86 and Lapras Lv 18. I will never forget Hitmonchan lv 56 hitting Lapras lv 16 for 16 damage with Ice Punch. Glorious. Oh yeah, Lapras should be high tier (Venusaur and Gyarados are better? lol no). Low lvl is no problem as he easily ohkos much stronger Pokemon with Surf and survives many attacks, Sing is great too in-game.
Shoulda given him Seismic Toss, it helps a lot when you try to solo the game with Pikachu.
 

atsync

Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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@Mekkah: Although I do not care what Wikipedia says and would prefer if you had not bothered including that definition in your argument (I know what a glitch is), I not denying that using unused items to boost Pikachu's happiness is a glitch. It probably is. I mean, when I was a kid I assumed that it was intended because it made sense to me that Pikachu would like you more if you tried to use items on it. I assumed that the programmers thought the same way, I assumed that everyone did it (and hence it would be considered part of a normal playthrough) and it also allows you to gain the (very few) benefits of increasing happiness without being forced to use Pikachu if you didn't want to. I ALWAYS use this trick through my playthroughs. Of course, we don't have any idea what the developers intended, but common sense now tells me that it wasn't intended. It just made it way too easy to get Pikachu happy and it seems dumb that they would develop this system where you have to work hard by grinding to maximise happiness and then make a way to essentially bypass it in seconds. I guess it was just an oversight that no one noticed before release.

Reading the thread, I assumed the main reason why we disallowed things like Missingno. cloning is because it made the whole task of making this list redundant. For example, you could duplicate Rare Candies which would make the tiers simply a case of availability. The Mew glitch would make availabilty less relevent since you could potentially obtain anything early (well, within reason; you still need to set it up so you battle the thing with the right Special stat value so it isn't as game-changing). Basically, these glitches have a HUGE impact on the entire tier list. Things that are high/top tier with glitches banned suddenly become low/bottom tier, etc.

On the other hand, the Happiness glitch (I'm officially calling it a glitch now) has a very minor impact (if any at all). It allows you to get Bulbasaur more easily. That's it. It doesn't impact any other pokemon and if we allowed it it would not cause any other tier shifts for any pokemon at all. At best, you could argue that it would allow you to get away with not having to use Pikachu at all (simply dump it in the PC and pull it out when you are ready to glitch it) and I guess it could be argued that Pikachu would look less useful in that respect (I would disagree though).

That's just how I feel. I personally don't see the harm in allowing it. However, I do view it as a glitch and if we must be absolutely consistent about this, then it shouldn't be allowed. I could go into a huge paragraph about the risk of "slippery slope", but I don't want to and I hate that concept anyway.

Having said all this, I feel that even if this glitch WERE allowed, it wouldn't really change Bulbasaur's position anyway. It isn't really that hard for any decent player to make Pikachu happy until you reach Bulbasaur, and being "forced" to use it isn't that big of a deal anyway. Pikachu is quite solid early on, roasting all of those birds and matching up fairly evenly against most things (and yes it can beat Brock if you really must use it for that purpose). Bulbasaur is not that great anyway. It comes at a low level and takes a while to get it up to an ideal level, where it isn't that amazing.

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All of the yellow starters are meh in Yellow compared to Red/Blue. Charmander is good if you give it Dig but without it you are stuck with Ember as your best attack until Charmeleon learns Slash. Much the same can be said for Squirtle and Bubblebeam. Just stick them all in mid.
 
Okay guys, I'm back! While I didn't quite beat the game in the last 2 days (mainly because I didn't bring my SP charger), I managed to get to Silph Co. and I think that I can tell you how each member of my team's doing.

It helps to think of Pikachu not as a starter, but as a weapon in you get at the beginning of an RPG. It starts out okay, but you'll be much better off using someone else later on. Pikachu's Special starts out okay, while its defenses are meager at best. While it can harm Ground-types, the moves needed either require the use of a one-time TM and(Seismic Toss) or cause far-from-needed recoil (Submission), the former never 2HKOing and the latter being unavailable until after the Geodudes and Onixes stop appearing.

Before it learns Low Kick at Lv. 9, think of it as a statistically superior Rattata with no STAB. Once it learns Low Kick, however, it gets perfect neutral coverage with nice Attack for that point in the game. 6 levels later, it learns Karate Chop, which is a poor man's Slash (how fitting that the only Pokemon that can learn "poor man's Slash" are Fighting-types), which has even more power than Low Kick and OHKOes almost anything Low Kick doesn't. It can also learn Dig, but it's better off on one of your other teammates, as Karate Chop+Low Kick already has perfect neutral coverage save for Ghost-types, and that's only for one town in the game. When you get to S.S. Anne, Mankey's power fades to Karate Chop/a neutral Low Kick just missing out on an OHKO, and it then usually takes a noticable chunk of HP in exchange. This pattern continues until it evolves at Lv. 28 and goes back to OHKOing everything in sight, at least until you get to Silph Co./Routes 12-15/Cycling Road, where it goes to "barely misses out on the OHKO on neutral hits" for evolved foes.

Bulbasaur has a very slow start, requiring Pikachu to have high happiness to even get it, and when you do get it, it's underleveled and has Tackle as its only attack. It doesn't learn Vine Whip until Lv. 13, and it's not too impressive when you get it. Its stats are quite similar to Oddish's, with the latter having the advantages of coming at a higher level and knowing the powder attacks to warrant its usage, while Bulbasaur evolves earlier and learns Razor Leaf, which is arguably better than Petal Dance at Lv. 30. Once Ivysaur learns Razor Leaf, expect mass destruction, but you'll have to wait until Celadon, which is when you can get a Leaf Stone to evolve Gloom.

Vappy joined my team at Lv. 25, while my Pokes were around Lv. 30, but I taught it Bubblebeam and Ice Beam and it took care of the Game Corner Grunts by itself, save for about 4. It then breezed through Route 8, which I skipped to give Vaporeon exp in the first place, and was then caught up with the rest of my team. When I was going to Fuchsia, Vaporeon OHKOed everything in sight, and it KOed Koga's Venomoth by itself. It's doing quite well at the moment, but I'm expecting its usefulness to come to a sudden stop after I get the Marshbadge, due to the fact that it can't seriously harm other Water-types.

The most recent addition to my team has shown a clear lack of power. While it was caught at Lv. 32, it failed to OHKO anybody in Celadon Gym. You really don't want a frail Pokemon to barely miss out on an OHKO, as they might get statused, like Ponyta did. Its lack of power was also shown by Ember failing to 2HKO a Weezing... 12 levels below it. Ponyta's currently the least useful member of my team, but it just learned Fire Spin. I imagine Fire Spin will increase its usefulness, but something tells me that it won't increase it by too much, unfortunately.

Also, before I left, I thought you could catch Psyduck in Seafoam Islands, so I could just catch one on my way to Cinnabar, use a Rare Candy on it, and trade. However, it's impossible to find a Psyduck in Seafoam, so I'll have to grind a Lv. 20 Psyduck throughout the rest of Silph, as I won't exactly be waiting for a Golduck encounter of the 5% kind.
 
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