Other Pokemon: Smogon Version OU [Route 4]

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Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
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Here's a list of legendaries:

Deoxys (2 forms)
Landorus (2 forms)
Thudurus (2 forms)
Kyurem (2 forms)
Latios
Terrakion
Latias
Manaphy
Zapdos
Mew
Suicune
Raikou
Victini
Entei
Tornadus (2 forms)
Celebi
Cresselia
Moltres
Jirachi
Heatran

And here are my comments on each:
Deoxys (2 forms) - Special sidestory, or finding it in a place like Mount Moon
Landorus (2 forms) - Find it hidden in a desert
Thundurus (2 forms) - see zapdos
Kyurem (2 forms) - hidden in whatever our ice stage is
Latios - wandering?
Latias - wandering?
Terrakion - no clue
Manaphy - given or found as an egg
Zapdos - Maybe there's a thunderstorm problem and you find this, thundurus, and tornadus?
Mew - no clue
Suicune/Raikou/Entei - trio should be connected. Dunno how
Victini - pixie event?
Tornadus (2 forms) - See zapdos
Celebi - Pixie event
Cresselia - dexoys sidestory/Mount Moon like place?
Moltres - Whatever fire mountain we have
Jirachi - Pixie event?
Heatran - I think it should be used by the evil team in the fire mountain, since it was owned by an evil guy in the anime.


Another solution is merely not to treat some of these (Heatran, pixies?) as legendaries at all.
Deo Forms were banned last week.
 
I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) anyone has suggested a person who teaches the concept of STAB to the player. Most casual players have no clue what STAB is, so it's worth having someone explain it to them.

NPC Proposal
Route 1 (wandering around)
Rogue

Dialogue:
"Don't look at me that way! Do you want me to STAB you?"
"..."
"Huh?! You don't know what STAB is? STAB stands for Same Type Attack Bonus and means if you use a move the same type as your pokemon the move does 50% more damage. That's 50% more pain! Got it?"
 
Suggestion: make the evil team's leader Versilify (that guy with a youtube channel who likes to bash smogon and propose "creative" sets).

Or DeniSsSsS
 
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I'm not insulting anyone, but these guys are known "enemies of Smogon", if there is such thing. I have nothing personal against them, though.

DeniSsS would probably find it hilarious.
He was already suggested as being an admin and that was generally agreed upon...evil team leader is a different can of worms all together tho.

EDIT: Damn it, I passed my 500th post without noticing...
 

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Generally agreed on? I saw no such thing. Insulting people is a bad idea for this project. Chou Toshio can we get some guidance regarding putting people like Versilify in a negative spotlight through this game? Several other parts of Smogon already go to great length to make sure Versilify isn't a big deal. This seems horribly counter-intuitive.
 
Versilify? What? no, he wasn't being added in the slightest. I was justmentioning an idea that had been liked for admin (which was a guy abusing BP, and people thought Deniss fit it well enough and Cho is the one who suggested him being like an admin as people seemed to jump the gun and want him evil boss) so I'm just going with what we've discussed.
 
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I mean, the whole idea of the evil team is that they are the antithesis of what Smogon stands for. I don't think it's insulting at all (I'd probably be honored to be in a Smogon game), but I can see how it would be offensive to make someone like Versilify a team leader without asking them first.

That said, it's also extremely fitting to make people who troll or insult Smogon to be the heads of an anti-Smogon association. So we have to balance respect with appropriateness. Personally, I don't think it's a problem to make someone like Deniss an admin (with a full BP team). He has a Smogon account and made an RMT. As for someone like Versilify, it's iffy. One one hand, they show Smogon little respect, but on the other hand we might want to take the high road.
 
I think we should avoid direct negativity against certain players (i.e. no need to directly point out their names in the game) in almost all aspects since it's definitely not what we should try to portray. I get it that some of these players are somewhat "anti-Smogon", but we're trying to promote a metagame, not bash on other opinions to make ours sound better.

In Denisss' case I can definitely see him being an admin, like Salemance said. I know that BP is generally looked down upon, but what Denisss did was work within the confines of the Single's ruleset to "abuse" a playstyle. He didn't break any rules, just an excess use of BP, and eventually Suspect Tests and the Council's decisions would interfere to make Smogon what it is today. He shouldn't be characterized as a bad person because the entire time he was following the rules.

Verlisify is a different case, but as I've said earlier we shouldn't point fingers and subjectively target people who are anti-Smogon. However, I would agree on some subtle references as a small laugh for those who understand. I'm all up for a Grunt to use Drifblim+Dunsparce.
 
Verlisify is a different case, but as I've said earlier we shouldn't point fingers and subjectively target people who are anti-Smogon. However, I would agree on some subtle references as a small laugh for those who understand. I'm all up for a Grunt to use Drifblim+Dunsparce.
Agreed - tiny references are a nice idea, because not everyone will know who these people are. I had to look up this Verlisify person after reading this thread - we can't expect people to know who all the YouTube gamers du jour are. That's some meta-metagame shit there.

Including these people will also have the effect of 'immortalising' them in the game. In a year's time, they might be forgotten by the community - yet their game counterparts would remain. People who seemed important at the time would be Admins or rivals or whatnot, and we'd be like, 'huh, it's that guy who was on YouTube for a minute. Why...'. It'd be like putting Flappy Bird in Super Smash Bros.
 
I think we should avoid direct negativity against certain players (i.e. no need to directly point out their names in the game) in almost all aspects since it's definitely not what we should try to portray. I get it that some of these players are somewhat "anti-Smogon", but we're trying to promote a metagame, not bash on other opinions to make ours sound better.

In Denisss' case I can definitely see him being an admin, like Salemance said. I know that BP is generally looked down upon, but what Denisss did was work within the confines of the Single's ruleset to "abuse" a playstyle. He didn't break any rules, just an excess use of BP, and eventually Suspect Tests and the Council's decisions would interfere to make Smogon what it is today. He shouldn't be characterized as a bad person because the entire time he was following the rules.

Verlisify is a different case, but as I've said earlier we shouldn't point fingers and subjectively target people who are anti-Smogon. However, I would agree on some subtle references as a small laugh for those who understand. I'm all up for a Grunt to use Drifblim+Dunsparce.
It should be like the little character references that can be found in Gen IV. Like the female Ace Trainer that had a Metagross and used her laptop to analyze the battle that was supposed to be a nod to Rebecca from the Deoxys movie. Except the localization crew didn't pick up on it so they didn't name her as such.

The admins should be members of the community (or even fake people) that represent a rather infamous strategy or something. For example, Denisss would probably work. Some of the more famous members of our community most vocal against specific bans would be others that could have illegal Pokemon. Stuff like that.

An unnamed Verlisify would work best as literally the first grunt you would see. He would state that he hates Smogon and stuff like he says in real life and states that Team Luck-Sack is trying to change everything. Then you get in battle and you would see his typical team or something like that.
 
I have an idea. For the obligatory Trainer School early in the game, why don't we name it Smogon University?
I really like this. We could then spin some stuff about how "you're always learning" and "you'll need to apply what you learned hear to achieve new heights".

The big question is do we want to have a list of info about EVs, IVs, STAB, Types, and Stat Boosts available for an info-dump at the school? We could put it all on the blackboard and have the teacher say "check out the Black Board if you've got any questions." However, I don't think giving the player access to this much info later on is a good thing. It overwhelms and confuses players who pick up the game with no prior knowledge.
 
Well, you get handed a Smogdex from Prof Chou after you've chosen a starter where you can find basically everything from base stat total to how to chainbreed certain moves, so I think basic information about STAB, EVs, etc. can be located there
 
Don't really want to continue being off topic so I'll throw out a proposal.

Item: Oran Berry (from a Berry Tree)

Aside from the obligatory Potion that the games give you in the early route, I think that a couple of Oran Berries will also be helpful early game. Of course, Oran Berry is nowhere near competitive in OU, but compared to Sitrus Berry it has better uses in the early parts on the game (would you really give someone a Sitrus Berry that only heals ~6 HP at that time?). When compared to a Potion, I think Orans have at least some learning purpose such as teaching people how held consumables work, which could help the newer entry level players (they have a long way to go if this is the case :P).

I know Salemance mentioned the idea of a "Berry Hoarder", but I think it might be best to keep it simple, at least for now. There shouldn't be any real need for another berry this early in the game except for Oran and maybe Lum. The Berry Hoarder still sounds like a great idea though and I think that would be a better idea to have him later (especially after Fly HM so you can visit regularly).
 
NPC Proposal
Route 1
Yougster
Script: ''My friend and I both got a Turtwig, but they both different stats!''
''Why do you look so puzzled? Don't you know what IVs are? You can look what they are in your Smogdex.''

Basically, this guy gives a little introduction to how IVs can influence your Pokemons stats and encourages the player to use their Smogdex
 
We definitely need to give an explanation about team archetypes. How about a trio of elite trainers that specialise on the 3 main archetypes? One is offense, another stall and the last balance. Also, Toxic, Hidden Power, Frustration/Return and Substitute should be available early-game since almost any Pokemon can get them. Toxic is also almost mandatory on stall teams, and all team archetypes should be viable at early stages.
 
Don't really want to continue being off topic so I'll throw out a proposal.

Item: Oran Berry (from a Berry Tree)

Aside from the obligatory Potion that the games give you in the early route, I think that a couple of Oran Berries will also be helpful early game. Of course, Oran Berry is nowhere near competitive in OU, but compared to Sitrus Berry it has better uses in the early parts on the game (would you really give someone a Sitrus Berry that only heals ~6 HP at that time?). When compared to a Potion, I think Orans have at least some learning purpose such as teaching people how held consumables work, which could help the newer entry level players (they have a long way to go if this is the case :P).

I know Salemance mentioned the idea of a "Berry Hoarder", but I think it might be best to keep it simple, at least for now. There shouldn't be any real need for another berry this early in the game except for Oran and maybe Lum. The Berry Hoarder still sounds like a great idea though and I think that would be a better idea to have him later (especially after Fly HM so you can visit regularly).
What if you make it so that the pool of berries that the berry hoarder can gives increases with the number of gym badges you get? You could even make it so that as you get more badges you're less likely to get worse berries, (like pecha, oran, rawst)
 
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