Other Pokemon: Smogon Version OU [Route 4]

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Martin

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Don't really want to continue being off topic so I'll throw out a proposal.

Item: Oran Berry (from a Berry Tree)

Aside from the obligatory Potion that the games give you in the early route, I think that a couple of Oran Berries will also be helpful early game. Of course, Oran Berry is nowhere near competitive in OU, but compared to Sitrus Berry it has better uses in the early parts on the game (would you really give someone a Sitrus Berry that only heals ~6 HP at that time?). When compared to a Potion, I think Orans have at least some learning purpose such as teaching people how held consumables work, which could help the newer entry level players (they have a long way to go if this is the case :P).

I know Salemance mentioned the idea of a "Berry Hoarder", but I think it might be best to keep it simple, at least for now. There shouldn't be any real need for another berry this early in the game except for Oran and maybe Lum. The Berry Hoarder still sounds like a great idea though and I think that would be a better idea to have him later (especially after Fly HM so you can visit regularly).
Oran Berry is somewhat useful in LC, so it is appropriate for that point in the game anyway ;P.
What if you make it so that the pool of berries that the berry hoarder can gives increases with the number of gym badges you get? You could even make it so that as you get more badges you're less likely to get worse berries, (like pecha, oran, rawst)
I think a better way to go about this would to be by making better berries available after later gym-towns, and then on routes after the 8th gym you can find bushes (to make them recognizable) which will that grow all the competitive items, like Life Orb, Choice items, Leftovers, AV, Weakness Policy, type-boosting items/plates, Expert Belt etc. and even seperate trees for Sitrus Berry, Lum Berry, 'pinch' berries and 'resist' berries. However, to prevent these from becoming op, we could make it so that the non-berry trees between the 8th gym and the elite four few and far-between - i suggest six so you have one for all teammates - and make them have a, say, 10-25% chance for each tree to bear new items every time the elite four is defeated.

On another note, ik that we aren't late-game yet, but I want to put this out there so that we have time to deal with it. We need a cover legendary for this. Maybe we could make the current CAP pokemon small legendaries which play a major part in the plot (akin to Azelf, Uxie and Mesprit in DPPt) and then have a big CAP project for the cover uber(s) - deliberately made uber to keep up with the cover legends pattern (exc. Kyurem, but White is still uber, so it sort of counts) which should be banned from use in gyms and elite four to adhere smogon clauses.

Also any plans on how the distribution of hidden abilities would work? Sorry, i can't be bothered to search through the entire thread and, honestly, trying to use the search function in a discussion thread is like searching for a needle in a hay stack.
 
Also any plans on how the distribution of hidden abilities would work? Sorry, i can't be bothered to search through the entire thread and, honestly, trying to use the search function in a discussion thread is like searching for a needle in a hay stack.
If I recall correctly, wild Pokémon will only have their competitive abilities, hidden or otherwise. For example, Fletchling would have Gale Wings (and maybe a chance of Big Pecks -> Flame Body for breeding purposes, but you get the point).
 
Rough terrain Pokemon proposal

Pokemon:venipede (with speed boost, of course!)
Levels:2-4
Reason:great support Pokemon that can do some offense, fits well with game progression, evolves into a viable Pokemon (Scolipede), fits well since its a bug type.


Edit: I just saw the bug/grass area is coming next so I'll hold off
 
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Question: Does the trainer have access to pokeballs before route 1? Because if Ash-Rival-Dood challenges a player who has chosen froakie....

0 SpA Pikachu thundershock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Froakie: 12-14 (60 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

life might suck a bit, and yes pikachu outspeeds.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
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Question: Does the trainer have access to pokeballs before route 1? Because if Ash-Rival-Dood challenges a player who has chosen froakie....

0 SpA Pikachu thundershock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Froakie: 12-14 (60 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

life might suck a bit, and yes pikachu outspeeds.
We can always just give it Tackle. It might technically be an illegal move, but I don't think anyone will care about it.
 
Just an idea: do we need to make the gyms linear? In the original games (I don't know about the others - except ruby and sapphire) you did not need to beat Sabrina, Blane, or Koga in any order.

Here's another unrelated idea - it has to do with getting certain moves on certain Pokemon. If you go and catch a specific Pokemon, and you bring it to a particular man, maybe he can trade the two. For example, you go catch a wild entei, you bring it to this guy and you will get the extreme speed entei.
 
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Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
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Just an idea: do we need to make the gyms linear? In the original games (I don't know about the others - except ruby and sapphire) you did not need to beat Sabrina, Blane, or Koga in any order.
To stick we flavour, probably yes since most of the games are like this, plus its the easiest way to balance it out
 

a fairy

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Intro:

And yet another week over, and we still haven't killed one another yet. Let's try to not suggest anything new, and only discuss minor issues with my summary and such. Chou Toshio will hopefully be around eventually to bring up discussion for our next stop in the stroll around our beautiful region.

You can find the wonderful map by Turtleye posted earlier on this page. It lacks 'rough grass' but is easily fixable and a non-issue.

Decision making:

My apologies if I'm overstepping any lines, but I'm going to tie up some 'loose ends' regarding some overarching region ideas that need to have been dealt with already.

Rivals: There's been a lot of debate on what our friendly antagonist(s) should be. Based on watching this thread closely, and taking our fellow @Salemence's summary of the first town's story as canon (I'm going to ignore most of your Route One stuff sorry friend!), I've gone ahead and finalized what our rivals will be. Unless you really have issue with this (no "my idea is better") or your username is Chou Toshio, please don't completely attack or disregard this. I honestly feel this is the best way to go about it, again, based on watching this thread closely and taking all opinions into consideration.

Rival 1: The life-long friend. This is our Ash rival, everyone. He's been our player's friend since you were born. He's decided to model his life after the great Ash Ketchum of Pallet Town. He even went as far to emulate the world-famous trainer in personality.
Rival 2: The new guy. This is the guy giving you a run for your money. He hails from a different, undisclosed region, and is very interested in whole thing. This is an over nice person, but arrogant when it comes to battling. He thinks that he's got it all worked out, and can't comprehend that other strategies are just as viable as his. Otherwise, however, he's a really cool guy to hang around with, and a great person to have on your side of the battle.

Other than this, I don't think there's anything really to put a foot down on, aside the enemy team, which are completely irrelevent until Chou decides to introduce them. Now that we don't need to slit eachother's throats over rivals...

Suggestions for the Route

Let's take a look back to what Chou Toshio originally put out for Route One (bear in mind, I can't provide links, I'm using a PC and an iPad to do this)
-We're looking for 'rough Pokemon'.
- In standard grass, one small bird and one small mammal can be found. These are our region's equivalent to a Bidoof and Starly.
- In Rough/Tall grass, two small birds and five (so it would seem) mammals. I've been told that the terms are loose but its there.
- NPCs and potential items are wanted for this route.

Pokemon proposed:
PKMN - Area - LVL - Poster
Fletchling - Standard Grass - 2-4 - The Pizza Man
Starly - Rough Grass - 3-5 - Mowtom
Azurril - Standard Grass - 2-4 - Chou Toshio [Also, Rough Grass 3-5 by Mew King]
Cleffa - Rough Grass - 2-4 - SirDizzylll
Eevee - Standard Grass - 2-4 - Fourth Inversion [Also, 3-4 by Snazzy Swampert]
Shroomish - Stanard/Thick Grass - 2-4 - Lady Salamence
Bunnelby - Standard Grass - 2-4 - cartoon warrior
Venipede - Thick Grass - 2-5 - Mantodea

Items proposed:

NPCs proposed:
Name - Short Explanation(+Team) - Poster
Berry Hoarder - Our region's berry farm - Salemence
Rival ??? - This is the First Rival (Lv 5 Pikachu) - Lady Salamence
Berry Guy - Gives you a berry juice - The Pizza Man
Generic Noob - Tries to show you how to catch Pokemon - Cataclyptic
Rouge - Explains what STAB is - HackerKing
Youngster - Explains what IVs are - Turtleye


Pokemon, NPCs, and the elusive TM
So before I can do the summary, I've got to (more or less) make the final decision on the Route One details. I am positive I'm involved enough in this project that I can make these decisions without there being too much issue, unless Chou wants to veto me, or there's some major (read: not "i think my idea is better) issue with my decisions.

PKMN:
One Bird, One Mammal for the Standard Grass: Bunnelby (cartoon warrior) and Fletchling (The Pizza Man)
Two Birds, Four* Mammals for the Rough Grass: Bunnelby (cartoon warrior)**, Azurill (Chou Toshio)***, Cleffa (SirDizzylll), Eevee (Fourth Immersion)***. Fletchling (The Pizza Man) and Starly (Mowtom)

NPCS: I've decided to keep it to three NPCs aside the initial rival. I've chosen the Rouge (HackerKing), Berry Guy (The Pizza Man), and Youngster (Turtleye). I wanted to include Salemence's Berry Hoarder, but there would be no real loss putting him slightly later in the game, and the more tutorial NPCs we take care of early, the better.

I realize the only Rival battle suggestion was my own, and was our Ash rival, but I'm ignoring my own suggestion and putting in a rival battle with our Second Rival. He'll naturally have whatever is super-effective against the player's choice, and you'll get to meet and name him at this point. He comes off as a prick because you havent met out-of-battle just yet. For reasons why I disregarded the Ash-Rival for now, look up a couple posts to where WebBrowser and Mew King presented the issue and solution with an early battle with Ash-Rival.

Items: Aside the Berry Juice from the Berry Guy NPC, I'm going to keep it to one item, the fabled and debated to high hell Route One TM. Plenty of great suggestions came out, and while all of them have merit, Stealth Rock is the one I chose. It's not going to be overly crazy early-game like Toxic or Fustration/Return might, and it's not going to be more prevalent for some team archetypes than other. What it will provide, however, is a cornerstone metagame move that will grow in power as the player progresses through the region, slowly learning just how essential Stealth Rock is on any team. Plus Chou suggested it and I want him to accept this post.

* - Five seems overkill, and not many Pokemon were suggested anyways
** - Pretty positive that Standard Grass stuff carries over
*** - Changed from Standard Grass to Rough Grass


Summary

And here we are. With all that information out of the way, we can now summarize up exactly what Route One will be.

The player, just being scolded by his/her mother regarding shoes, heads into Route One. Up past the cliff thing, by the tree, a shadowy figure stands there [ROGUE]. Heading past him and near the sign, the Rival hops down from the ledge, and challenges the player to a battle [RIVAL BATTLE]. Once dispatched, he runs off to places unknown, saying he simply didn't train enough yet. Heading up a bit to get around the cliff's blockade, the player runs into a person who gives them a berry juice [BERRY MAN]. If the Player would head back in the direction of the rogue, but this time above the trees, he'd find an item [TM STEALTH ROCK]. However, when he heads further in, a young boy in the grass talks to him about IVs [YOUNGSTER]. If he opted to head up into the rocky area, he'd find that the Pokemon taking residence up there were different then previous encounters [ROUGH GRASS]. Other than that, however, the Route is fairly straightfoward, and he heads towards the road he sees.
 

a fairy

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Stealth Rock was suggested by Chou himself, so unless he's contradicting himself...
 

Chou Toshio

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Hi guys, sorry I went home for a week personal trip; I will now go through the thread and re-organize/mod what needs fixing. Will get back with my input/update soon.
 
^ As was I with the state convention I was at, thus hindering me as well. Slight bad timing there all in all. Thank ya tho Lady Sala.

And on the SR note, yes Cho said it, but he also later stated keeping it XY TM list, so it was ret-conned. Alls good tho.
 

Karxrida

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Concerning the Ash rival's characterization, we should emphasize how he tries to have fun with his battles regardless of his team composition/choices while still showing him as competent. That way we can show how there's nothing wrong with using your favorites as long as you acknowledge that they might be sub-optimal or niche without alienating more casual players. When we get to the low tier part of the game we can even give him amazing UU/RU/NU teams to showcase how the tier system is meant to work and focus on how they let less used Pokemon shine in an environment meant for them.
 

Chou Toshio

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Also, yeah I forgot no SR TM (don't mind me-- haven't been serious about playing in-game since DPP derp). SR tutor if anything.

Keep posting your ideas guys-- it's great; my only concern is the small pool of users we have actually participating in discussion. If it becomes too small a circle, the project might be an unreasonable thread here in OU (I'd consider having it moved elsewhere).

I have collected the most important posts, and Salemance (and me) will likely be summarizing them into the next summation post shortly (after which we can move onto the next town).

My guess is that the Pokemon on route 1 will look like this:

Short Grass:
Fletchling (Common)
Azurril (Common)

Wild Terrain Patch:
Starly (Common)
Bunnelby (Common)
Eevee (Uncommon)
Venopede or Shroomish (Rare)
^Most likely both of these Pokemon will be staples of the grass/bug forest coming up at the end of Route 2, but I think limited access to one or both at this point would be fine (kind of like Caterpie appearing in grass before Viridian forest).

Anyway, not the final list; we'll get back to you guys later.
 

jc104

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Not sure if this is the time to discuss this, but I really think some kind of level cap is required for this game to work properly (e.g increasing with each gym). It's well known that by far the easiest way to complete a pokemon game is to use only 1-2 pokemon such that they are totally overlevelled. While of course this game will be much harder, it is still likely that this will be the case. If we wish to encourage the use of a full team before the very end of the game, then I think a hard level cap is the best way to do this.

This ensures some degree of difficulty in most battles, not just gym battles, and removes many balancing issues for us. We essentially don't have to worry about how many exp. points we're giving out at all. We can make grinding easy without repercussion. Worst case scenario is that we encourage the use of MORE than 6 pokemon (in rotation), which could lead to the "counterteaming" of the gym leaders. I suppose that is not necessarily a bad thing either.

From a flavour standpoint, I don't think this is too bad either. Perhaps high level pokemon can be viewed as dangerous, and as such you aren't allowed to handle them until you have proven your competence. Or perhaps you are only ABLE to train the pokemon sufficiently well after you have gained more experience.

Opinions on route 1:

I've never tried to use an azurill in game, but I worry that it might be seriously awful until it evolves into an azumarill. We can't just not worry about how powerful the pokemon are at this stage. Yes, azurill gets huge power, but it doesn't learn any physical moves before it evolves, where it quickly gains the absurdly powerful Aqua Tail. As such, azurill is going to be seriously useless, and then suddenly very strong, making it difficult to balance out the game. My honest opinion is that we should remove azurill and introduce marill/azumarill later, but an alternative could be to introduce a relatively weak physical TM move early on for azurill to use (e.g facade, return, or frustration), such that it might be tolerable.
 
Not sure if this is the time to discuss this, but I really think some kind of level cap is required for this game to work properly (e.g increasing with each gym). It's well known that by far the easiest way to complete a pokemon game is to use only 1-2 pokemon such that they are totally overlevelled. While of course this game will be much harder, it is still likely that this will be the case. If we wish to encourage the use of a full team before the very end of the game, then I think a hard level cap is the best way to do this.

This ensures some degree of difficulty in most battles, not just gym battles, and removes many balancing issues for us. We essentially don't have to worry about how many exp. points we're giving out at all. We can make grinding easy without repercussion. Worst case scenario is that we encourage the use of MORE than 6 pokemon (in rotation), which could lead to the "counterteaming" of the gym leaders. I suppose that is not necessarily a bad thing either.

From a flavour standpoint, I don't think this is too bad either. Perhaps high level pokemon can be viewed as dangerous, and as such you aren't allowed to handle them until you have proven your competence. Or perhaps you are only ABLE to train the pokemon sufficiently well after you have gained more experience.

Opinions on route 1:

I've never tried to use an azurill in game, but I worry that it might be seriously awful until it evolves into an azumarill. We can't just not worry about how powerful the pokemon are at this stage. Yes, azurill gets huge power, but it doesn't learn any physical moves before it evolves, where it quickly gains the absurdly powerful Aqua Tail. As such, azurill is going to be seriously useless, and then suddenly very strong, making it difficult to balance out the game. My honest opinion is that we should remove azurill and introduce marill/azumarill later, but an alternative could be to introduce a relatively weak physical TM move early on for azurill to use (e.g facade, return, or frustration), such that it might be tolerable.
While I will not be touching the Azurill topic with a 40 foot pole (am discussing my thoughts on the route 1 pokemon atm with Cho actually) but how we had discussed the leveling, we found a nice balance of the level increases to where the eighth gym becomes lvl 90 and VR and the Elite Four + Champ all utilize Lvl 100 teams, making power leveling less of an issue once you get further through it, so while you can try steam rolling through the early portions, it wont work so well if at all in the later segments.
 
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