Pokemon Sun and Moon Demo Datamine + Full Game Leaks Collection (Read the OP)

[SergioRules]

Not sure if this has been addressed before, but I just recently came up with a problem with all the theories brought up on Ultra Beasts not being obtainable because their based on humans in the game. If they weren't able to be caught, why would they have shiny forms. It seems like a lot of extra work to add in shiny forms for something that will only be battled (presumably once) in a story driven event.

 

[jackgraves]

Not sure if this has been addressed before, but I just recently came up with a problem with all the theories brought up on Ultra Beasts not being obtainable because their based on humans in the game. If they weren't able to be caught, why would they have shiny forms. It seems like a lot of extra work to add in shiny forms for something that will only be battled (presumably once) in a story driven event.

We know they can be caught, as it was confirmed via a Polygon article. We also have this new ball:

Which may be what you use to catch them.

 

[Drake Wolf]

Not sure if this has been addressed before, but I just recently came up with a problem with all the theories brought up on Ultra Beasts not being obtainable because their based on humans in the game. If they weren't able to be caught, why would they have shiny forms. It seems like a lot of extra work to add in shiny forms for something that will only be battled (presumably once) in a story driven event.

The BW2 movie props, Spiky-Eared Pichu and Cosplay Pikachu also have shiny forms. Maybe they have shiny forms in case someone hacks them to be shiny or for future distributions. Also, is it me or shiny UB-02-E's design is kind of lazy?

 

[R_N]

Not sure if this has been addressed before, but I just recently came up with a problem with all the theories brought up on Ultra Beasts not being obtainable because their based on humans in the game. If they weren't able to be caught, why would they have shiny forms. It seems like a lot of extra work to add in shiny forms for something that will only be battled (presumably once) in a story driven event.

Multiple people have brought those up since the datamine, and the usual counter is that the pokestar studio pokemon also get shiny forms for some bizzare reason. Also things like SPiky Eared Pichu.

The more direct line of reasoning is like
there's a national dex listing right there

 

[Drake Wolf]

Multiple people have brought those up since the datamine, and the usual counter is that the pokestar studio pokemon also get shiny forms for some bizzare reason. Also things like SPiky Eared Pichu.

The more direct line of reasoning is like
there's a national dex listing right there

You know, I used to have that stance, but after they found the UB/Aether Ball, I accepted the fact that they are catchable. However, like I said before, there's a good chance that the shiny UBs are failsafes.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Multiple people have brought those up since the datamine, and the usual counter is that the pokestar studio pokemon also get shiny forms for some bizzare reason. Also things like SPiky Eared Pichu.

The more direct line of reasoning is like
there's a national dex listing right there

So, does that mean the Ultra Beasts will have Types that follow the type chart? Like giving them unique Abilities and Moves is easy enough to do, but they can't really introduce something like the "Ultra" type, can they? Would that be something the datamine might have discovered? Or is it "secret" type still a possibility.

 

[R_N]

So, does that mean the Ultra Beasts will have Types that follow the type chart? Like giving them unique Abilities and Moves is easy enough to do, but they can't really introduce something like the "Ultra" type, can they? Would that be something the datamine might have discovered? Or is it "secret" type still a possibility.

I don't see why they wouldn't have types. Just cuz you're an otherworldly being doesn't mean you can't adhere to one of the 18 types. 2 of them are even pretty clearly bugs!

I mean they're already adhering to all the other pokemon standards, no reason they can't be classified.

 

[jackgraves]

I don't see why they wouldn't have types. Just cuz you're an otherworldly being doesn't mean you can't adhere to one of the 18 types. 2 of them are even pretty clearly bugs!

I mean they're already adhering to all the other pokemon standards, no reason they can't be classified.

Exactly. Plus, their weird, otherworldly nature makes them the perfect candidates for receiving strange, unexpected Type combos.

 

[R_N]

Exactly. Plus, their weird, otherworldly nature makes them the perfect candidates for receiving strange, unexpected Type combos.

you thought i would be bug/fighting, but no, I am Poison/Steel!

 

[chuckeroo777]

Yeah, no need to make new types. If they want unique resists, they can just incorporate it into their abilities.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I don't see why they wouldn't have types. Just cuz you're an otherworldly being doesn't mean you can't adhere to one of the 18 types. 2 of them are even pretty clearly bugs!

I mean they're already adhering to all the other pokemon standards, no reason they can't be classified.

Well from what we can tell humans aren't typed.

 

[jackgraves]

you thought i would be bug/fighting, but no, I am Poison/Steel!

Behold, for I am not an elegant Bug woman, but an Electric/Ice sweeping monstrosity! FEAR ME!

Well from what we can tell humans aren't typed.

Yeah (well, except for Psychics, Sabrina, and Tate & Liza, who I'd say certainly classify as Psychic-Types), but UB's aren't necessarily human, and they definitely aren't in the Dex. If something is registered in the Pokedex, then odds are it has a Type(s), which I think is the point R_N was trying to make.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Behold, for I am not an elegant Bug woman, but an Electric/Ice sweeping monstrosity! FEAR ME!

Yeah (well, except for Psychics, Sabrina, and Tate & Liza, who I'd say certainly classify as Psychic-Types), but UB's aren't necessarily human, and they definitely aren't in the Dex. If something is registered in the Pokedex, then odds are it has a Type(s), which I think is the point R_N was trying to make.

Who says for it to be in the dex it needs to have a type? Or who says the types have the same weakness and resistances? Maybe in the UB universe what we think is Electric is weak to Fire, strong against Rock, and neutral to Ground.

Of course for the latter there's an obvious "out": upon coming to our dimension their types start playing by our dimension's rules (an idea they can use to catch the UB off guard initially as they try adapting to our dimension). But still that doesn't mean they may not have a type (or multiple types) which exists in our dimension. And that's even if they would have types, maybe they have whatever "type" a human is considered.

BTW I'm just trying to make conversation and maybe get something that bothers me off my chest. It just bugs me that GF went out of their way to make these creatures from another dimension yet then also tip they follow some (if not all) basic Pokemon rules including being able to be captured and used (thus either not having human-level consciousness or having the unfortunate implication we're enslaving human-level consciousness beings). Now a lot of these problems I could suppose be worked around via a signature Ability which is actually more a list of rules the Ultra Beast plays by, thus being neither Pokemon nor human, but that latter part is still a sticking point for me. I guess until we learn exactly what the Ultra Beasts deal is I can't really think of them just being Pokemon from another dimension, but I hope the reasoning both clears up any grey area while also still making the UB something different from a typical Pokemon.

 

[Project_Mars]

Eh, until i have to catch the ultra beasts in game, i'm gonna say it's a special ball for Solgaleo and Lunala. Aether Foundation wants to study it too.

Incidentally, this is a second pokemon that has a connection to both the Aether Foundation and a person that resembles Lusamine. I am thinking that Lillie and Gladion are Lusamine's kids.

 

[R_N]

it's painfully obvious the twist with ultra beasts is going to be they are pokemon

It even fits into the theme of the game. They have been hammering it really hard about the importance of people & pokemon living together. Multiple previews of the first 2 hours picked this up and the nintendo reps even said its a theme of the game.

I'm guessing Aether did something to stir the hornet's nest, making them invade and as we progress through the game we will realize they're just as pokemon as anything else in this crazy world and we need to learn to live with them or whatever. So we'll be all "hey lets not antagonize them more" and aether will be all "nooo" and that will set the UBs off to a point where you have to fight them anyway because this is pokemon damn it and you are going to fight

 

[jackgraves]

Who says for it to be in the dex it needs to have a type? Or who says the types have the same weakness and resistances? Maybe in the UB universe what we think is Electric is weak to Fire, strong against Rock, and neutral to Ground.

Of course for the latter there's an obvious "out": upon coming to our dimension their types start playing by our dimension's rules (an idea they can use to catch the UB off guard initially as they try adapting to our dimension). But still that doesn't mean they may not have a type (or multiple types) which exists in our dimension. And that's even if they would have types, maybe they have whatever "type" a human is considered.

BTW I'm just trying to make conversation and maybe get something that bothers me off my chest. It just bugs me that GF went out of their way to make these creatures from another dimension yet then also tip they follow some (if not all) basic Pokemon rules including being able to be captured and used (thus either not having human-level consciousness or having the unfortunate implication we're enslaving human-level consciousness beings). Now a lot of these problems I could suppose be worked around via a signature Ability which is actually more a list of rules the Ultra Beast plays by, thus being neither Pokemon nor human, but that latter part is still a sticking point for me. I guess until we learn exactly what the Ultra Beasts deal is I can't really think of them just being Pokemon from another dimension, but I hope the reasoning both clears up any grey area while also still making the UB something different from a typical Pokemon.

That's fair, I suppose. I think that they will play by Pokemon's rules for the sake of gameplay, but only because they can be caught. If they were simply uncatchable Bosses, then them having unique weaknesses and resistances not governed by their Type (if they even had Types) and attacks that were not traditional moves would make perfect sense to me. However, the fact that you can catch them, and use them, seems to indicate to me that they will play ball with the inherent laws of Pokemon.

Also, as for the human-level consciousness and enslaving them, we've kind of already been doing that. I mean, just look at Alakazam, Metagross, Lapras, etc. Certain Pokemon are just as smart, if not smarter, than humans. Also, we don't know for sure that they are as smart as us, so there is every chance that they aren't all too intelligent, and their appearance is just the result of them being beastial alternate dimension counterparts to certain humans that are rough.y equivalent to that world's version of Pokemon, or that they feel connected to, and therefore begin to mimic, certain people.

That said, if they do end up being human (which I doubt, but I digress), I would not be cool with catching them. That would just feel oh so wrong. But again, I think they are further removed from people than some might think.

 

[Pikachu315111]

it's painfully obvious the twist with ultra beasts is going to be they are pokemon

It even fits into the theme of the game. They have been hammering it really hard about the importance of people & pokemon living together. Multiple previews of the first 2 hours picked this up and the nintendo reps even said its a theme of the game.

I'm guessing Aether did something to stir the hornet's nest, making them invade and as we progress through the game we will realize they're just as pokemon as anything else in this crazy world and we need to learn to live with them or whatever. So we'll be all "hey lets not antagonize them more" and aether will be all "nooo" and that will set the UBs off to a point where you have to fight them anyway because this is pokemon damn it and you are going to fight

Hm, that wasn't a twist I was thinking of. I guess it'll make sense if they want to establish in the Pokemon universe there are mainly two beings, Pokemon and humans, with everything else either a non-factor, too simple, or in a transition phase into one of the two.

Still sticking to my theory, I do want the Ultra Beasts to have some compelling goal which would make you switch your opinion of them being monsters to sympathetic beings.

My Theory

In case no one knows, basically I think Lillie is a young Ultra Beast (probably a UB-01, the counterpart to the UB-01 we know) that was accidentally brought over by the Aether Foundation during an experiment. Out of self-preservation, it transformed into a younger version of the first person it sees: Lusamine. Aether Foundation adopts and names Lillie and start teaching and paying close attention to her, especially Lusamine. This causes Lusamine's actual son, Gladion, jealous which over th years turned to hatred, seeing Lillie as nothing but a monster. He runs away, taking Silvally with him which originally was made to fight Ultra Beasts until the accident made them realize UBs aren't monsters so cancelled the project, and joined Team Flare as they are an opposing force to the Aether Foundation. When the game starts the Ultra Beasts, Lillie's real family, find a way to cross over so they can get Lillie back (some taking familiar forms either to make Lillie remember who they are or see fit to combat those keeping Lillie from them).

So where does Cosmog/Solgaleo/Lunala come into this? I don't know, though one reason for this theory is that I don't want the Aether Foundation to turn out as the big bad. That's a bit too cliche and would rather Team Skull to remain the big bad. Like at some point we sorta find out what's going on an that's when we start fighting the Aether Foundation (possibly even alongside Team Skull or at least Gladion) until we learned the some more stuff and realize this is a big misunderstanding. However Guzma wouldn't care, thinking defeating the Ultra Beasts would make the Alola region respect Team Skull, so keeps on fighting the Ultra Beasts. This might result the UB summoning their boss who is super strong so then they'd need the mascot Legendary to come in and battle the super UB to settle things once and for all.

Also, as for the human-level consciousness and enslaving them, we've kind of already been doing that. I mean, just look at Alakazam, Metagross, Lapras, etc. Certain Pokemon are just as smart, if not smarter, than humans. Also, we don't know for sure that they are as smart as us, so there is every chance that they aren't all too intelligent, and their appearance is just the result of them being beastial alternate dimension counterparts to certain humans that are rough.y equivalent to that world's version of Pokemon, or that they feel connected to, and therefore begin to mimic, certain people.

That said, if they do end up being human (which I doubt, but I digress), I would not be cool with catching them. That would just feel oh so wrong. But again, I think they are further removed from people than some might think.

I always considered Pokemon different from humans by thinking they're more instinctual while humans are more "conscious" (as in use our intelligence to make choices). While there are Pokemon's who basic intelligence equal or surpass a humans, a Pokemon will always trust and follow their instincts before following conscious thinking which is what a human would do. Thus it's not morally ambiguous humans capture and use Pokemon, Pokemon are basically intelligent animals who will align themselves with the one who proves to be superior which humans have been able to do (like a human training a dog to understand that humans are the alpha), among other reasons why Pokemon follow humans which I won't get into.

Not saying the UBs were humans, but I'm saying the UBs might use conscious thinking like humans do.

 

[R_N]

I think Aether probably isnt overtly evil, they're extremist. I think there's genuine want to be nice to Pokemon & provide them a home and such but they've gone too far and are so committed to it they're just going to keep going until it blows up.

 

[Karxrida]

We know there is an additional form to Magearna. It's always possible to add additional Pokemon as DLC with a patch (they haven't done so yet).

I was once told that patching in new Pokémon would be impossible (or at least very difficult) due to the way their data is organized. (Don't quote me on that, though.) Also, as previously stated, GF wouldn't leave unavailable stuff like Marshadow in the games if they were planning on making DLC patches.

 

[jackgraves]

My Theory

In case no one knows, basically I think Lillie is a young Ultra Beast (probably a UB-01, the counterpart to the UB-01 we know) that was accidentally brought over by the Aether Foundation during an experiment. Out of self-preservation, it transformed into a younger version of the first person it sees: Lusamine. Aether Foundation adopts and names Lillie and start teaching and paying close attention to her, especially Lusamine. This causes Lusamine's actual son, Gladion, jealous which over th years turned to hatred, seeing Lillie as nothing but a monster. He runs away, taking Silvally with him which originally was made to fight Ultra Beasts until the accident made them realize UBs aren't monsters so cancelled the project, and joined Team Flare as they are an opposing force to the Aether Foundation. When the game starts the Ultra Beasts, Lillie's real family, find a way to cross over so they can get Lillie back (some taking familiar forms either to make Lillie remember who they are or see fit to combat those keeping Lillie from them).

So where does Cosmog/Solgaleo/Lunala come into this? I don't know, though one reason for this theory is that I don't want the Aether Foundation to turn out as the big bad. That's a bit too cliche and would rather Team Skull to remain the big bad. Like at some point we sorta find out what's going on an that's when we start fighting the Aether Foundation (possibly even alongside Team Skull or at least Gladion) until we learned the some more stuff and realize this is a big misunderstanding. However Guzma wouldn't care, thinking defeating the Ultra Beasts would make the Alola region respect Team Skull, so keeps on fighting the Ultra Beasts. This might result the UB summoning their boss who is super strong so then they'd need the mascot Legendary to come in and battle the super UB to settle things once and for all.

In response to your theory:

My Response

I really don't think Lillie is an UB. Yes, UB-01 resembles her, but that decision just would not be smart for GF. Lillie would then end up being captured by the player, which enters into that uncomfortable area we discussed before. It would also beg the question of why Beauty resembles Lusamine as well, and why Lillie would resemble a young Lusamine when she doesn't know what Lusamine looked like when she was younger, or what any human looks like when they are young. It just doesn't track for me.

I think Aether probably isnt overtly evil, they're extremist. I think there's genuine want to be nice to Pokemon & provide them a home and such but they've gone too far and are so committed to it they're just going to keep going until it blows up.

I can see that being the case. They want to protect Pokemon, but they end up going a bit over the top. That, or perhaps there's just one bad apple in the mix, a single member of the Foundation, who doesn't have the noblest of intentions. There are possibilities, and I'm curious to see how things turn out.

 

[AztecCroc]

I think Aether probably isn't overtly evil, they're extremist. I think there's genuine want to be nice to Pokemon & provide them a home and such but they've gone too far and are so committed to it they're just going to keep going until it blows up.

Or they're Team Plasma 2.0, dime-a-dozen evil hidden behind a thin facade of good intentions.

 

[Bombkirby]

The BW2 movie props have shiny forms.

That's not true. Some of the props have recolored sprites because you fight an upgraded version of them later. The black tyranitar robot is not "shiny" it's just a different/stronger enemy you battle in poke star studios. Most of the props only are used once. And if programmed to be "shiny" they don't change colors.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokéstar_Studios_opponents

 

[R_N]

That's not true. Some of the props have recolored sprites because you fight an upgraded version of them later. The black tyranitar robot is not "shiny" it's just a different/stronger enemy you battle in poke star studios. Most of the props only are used once. And if programmed to be "shiny" they don't change colors.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokéstar_Studios_opponents

I was going to say that was wrong but the spriter's resource pokestar rips are a ridiculous mess

 

[AquaticPanic]

Or they're Team Plasma 2.0, dime-a-dozen evil hidden behind a thin facade of good intentions.

Now that you mentioned it... Kinda see it. "I would be a mother for all those Pokémon and shower them with love"
Also there is definetly a reason why Aether Foundation, Type: Null and UB-01 were revealed at the same video.

I am thinking that Lillie and Gladion are Lusamine's kids.

I've seen a theory they are all siblings and after Lusamine transformed Lillie into UB-01, Gladion created Type: Null to avenge her

One thing I want to say, the UBs aren't necessarally the people. They might just be creatures based on them. We even see UB-01 comming out of a portal, they are probably from another dimension. Kinda like how Deoxys is a space virus but still has a type and is catchable.

 

[Hourai]

Now that you mentioned it... Kinda see it. "I would be a mother for all those Pokémon and shower them with love"
Also there is definetly a reason why Aether Foundation, Type: Null and UB-01 were revealed at the same video.



I've seen a theory they are all siblings and after Lusamine transformed Lillie into UB-01, Gladion created Type: Null to avenge her

One thing I want to say, the UBs aren't necessarally the people. They might just be creatures based on them. We even see UB-01 comming out of a portal, they are probably from another dimension. Kinda like how Deoxys is a space virus but still has a type and is catchable.

And we also see UB-02 coming out of a portal briefly at the end of the Japanese Amazon trailer thing for Sun/Moon. Their resemblances to people are probably completely coincidental in-universe.