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Pokemon Sun/Moon Random Battle sets

I feel like the overlapping resistances on Leaf Blade + X-Scissor is detrimental to Leafeon (especially since it doesn't get Bug STAB) so I'm kind of considering Double-Edge for the improved neutral coverage? It's even on its PU/ZU analyses for this gen. If we give it Normalium-Z like the analysis if it also has Swords Dance, then I think it could be pretty cool. Anyways, discuss.

EDIT: It would definitely not be getting Return
Thinking about it, maybe it does make sense with the Normalium-Z. I was mostly talking about SE coverage with x-scissor, but yeah after looking, the neutral coverage gained actually covers a bat load of dangerous threats, some of which could get caught off guard by the z-move or even a +2 double edge thinking they can get a safe KO or just set-up (Charizard, Pinsir, Zapdos, Moltres, Dragonite, Heracross, Salamence, Staraptor, Volcarona, Kommo-o, Blaziken, Togekiss, Rayquaza, Tornadous, Thundurus, etc.)

Seeing that, I'm down for this addition now.
 
I get that Ghost and dark have basically the same coverage, but Spiritomb is supposed to have a support move or two... Right?
Spiritomb also has Calm Mind and RestTalk available to it, which are technically not "support" moves, so technically, no it isn't supposed to always have a support move. This amount of Dark moves is definitely overkill, though, and definitely wrong.......
 
Robb576 mentioned in Random Battle chat yesterday that Pursuit might not be all that useful compared to its other moves. It has base 92 Attack and can't max its EVs for obvious reasons, plus having to deal with mons outside of PU means there's probably a much lower percentage of mons it can actually Pursuit trap.

Also, a few people supported the removal of Pain Split, calling it "wierd without sub" and the "weakest link", but I don't know enough about Spiritomb to make a proper judgment..

The Immortal what are your thoughts on these two suggestions? I saw your Shadow Sneak removal but that won't fix the quad-Dark set mentioned above.
 

The Immortal

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Robb576 mentioned in Random Battle chat yesterday that Pursuit might not be all that useful compared to its other moves. It has base 92 Attack and can't max its EVs for obvious reasons, plus having to deal with mons outside of PU means there's probably a much lower percentage of mons it can actually Pursuit trap.

Also, a few people supported the removal of Pain Split, calling it "wierd without sub" and the "weakest link", but I don't know enough about Spiritomb to make a proper judgment..

The Immortal what are your thoughts on these two suggestions? I saw your Shadow Sneak removal but that won't fix the quad-Dark set mentioned above.
I plan to revert that change and instead remove Sucker Punch + Pain Split.
 

Kalalokki

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Spiritomb should benefit from Pain Split in theory, since it has low base HP. Memento and Psychic are also options to be added if the movepool is too shallow atm. Not sure if it ever gets Choice Band, but Trick would work on such a set.
 
So today I got the following set:

Malamar @Normalium Z
Ability: Contrary (iirc)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Knock Off
- Happy Our

While Z-Happy Our is a great Set for Malamar, combining it with Sleep Talk and just Knock Off as an offensive Move ruines any ability for it to put in work in my opinion.

Either Z-Happy Our with at least 2 Moves or a Leftovers Resttalk-Set, but this combination gets rid of both set's advantages.
 
So today I got the following set:

Malamar @Normalium Z
Ability: Contrary (iirc)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Knock Off
- Happy Our

While Z-Happy Our is a great Set for Malamar, combining it with Sleep Talk and just Knock Off as an offensive Move ruines any ability for it to put in work in my opinion.

Either Z-Happy Our with at least 2 Moves or a Leftovers Resttalk-Set, but this combination gets rid of both set's advantages.
Just a nitpick, but if it has no Contrary moves, Malamar gets Infiltrator.

I think I figured out the Malamar issue! Probably.

The main issue is that Superpower will be rejected if the Pokemon has RestTalk on its set, because it's detrimental to all other RestTalkers except Malamar. This has drastic consequences on how the set gets generated because rejecting Superpower causes it to either end on RestTalk / Happy Hour / Knock Off, or mayyybe RestTalk / Psycho Cut / Knock Off (unsure), and neither is ideal. The obvious fix is to change the condition to instead reject if the Pokemon has RestTalk and also does not have Contrary as a possible Ability.
 
I just got a Keldeo with no Fighting STAB (Secret Sword), in most instances, Secret Sword would almost do as much as HP Electric or Icy Wind (assuming either of those is 2x and fighting is 1x, with the stab that's 85 * 1.5 = 127.5 BP vs 120 BP for 2x effectiveness using HP electric and 110 BP + slowdown for Icy Wind). Is this enough to warrant a moveset change?

165319
 
I got an Arceus-Poison with toxic plate but sludge bomb over judgement. Judgement is definitely better here, especially on a CM set. Not sure how easy this is to fix, but maybe some sort of check to see if there's a Z crystal? I haven't read the set generation code (or know much about code in general) so apologies if I'm pulling that out of my ass.
 
I got an Arceus-Poison with toxic plate but sludge bomb over judgement. Judgement is definitely better here, especially on a CM set. Not sure how easy this is to fix, but maybe some sort of check to see if there's a Z crystal? I haven't read the set generation code (or know much about code in general) so apologies if I'm pulling that out of my ass.
Apparently Arceus-Poison does not actually get Judgment! It only gets Sludge Bomb. The Immortal do you know the reason for this choice? I doubt the poison chance is all that relevant.
 

Sondero

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I just got a Keldeo with no Fighting STAB (Secret Sword), in most instances, Secret Sword would almost do as much as HP Electric or Icy Wind (assuming either of those is 2x and fighting is 1x, with the stab that's 85 * 1.5 = 127.5 BP vs 120 BP for 2x effectiveness using HP electric and 110 BP + slowdown for Icy Wind). Is this enough to warrant a moveset change?

View attachment 165319
There are specific Pokemon that take quite a bit of damage from Hidden Power Electric, while taking very little, if not no damage from any of Keldeo's STAB's, like Gyarados, Mantine or Jellicent. I do think making Secret Sword a mandatory move on Keldeo could be nice, if that's something that can be done, since it's the only Fighting STAB it gets currently and it's such a unique move. Every set on the smogdex even have Secret Sword unslashed.
 
There are specific Pokemon that take quite a bit of damage from Hidden Power Electric, while taking very little, if not no damage from any of Keldeo's STAB's, like Gyarados, Mantine or Jellicent. I do think making Secret Sword a mandatory move on Keldeo could be nice, if that's something that can be done, since it's the only Fighting STAB it gets currently and it's such a unique move. Every set on the smogdex even have Secret Sword unslashed.
Yeah now that I think about it, HP electric does have some uses. I guess I was just tilted at icy wind and HP electric in the same set where secret sword was not there in.

Also, I got a relatively redundant Infernape set today with dual fighting priority, is this intentional?
165551
 
This is (I am actually not exaggerating ... I can't remember ever receiving anything worse) the worst Arceus set I have received in over 6000+ random battles:

Arceus-Dragon

Judgment
Will O Wisp
Extremespeed
Defog

I think Extremespeed should be limited to Arceus that have Swords Dance because it hits like a wet towel otherwise.
 
Today I noticed Castform has finally been made a level 100, and I got a Firium Z set which ended up being super fun to play with. :3
 

breh

強いだね
Got pressure double edge aero earlier lol

Edit: fixed on next patch ~TI
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Nidoking, Nidoqueen, and Clefable should get Flamethrower over Fire Blast. In the case of all three of them, the primary targets of their Flamethrowers are all hit hard enough by that to the point where it's not really worth sacrificing both PP and accuracy when the power ends up being overkill more often than not.


Seviper gets Swords Dance, which is a possible option over Coil as it really doesn't have time for bulky boosting and would rather get its Attack up as quickly as possible.


Zangoose would possibly rather have the AoA and coverage of CC/Facade/Knock/Quick Attack than SD.


Quagsire/Gastrodon should always have Recover. There's really no reason not to run recovery on either of these mons that both have it and are both especially hindered without it. Additionally, neither have much reason to run Life Orb, especially Quagsire.
Umbreon should always have Foul Play; with out it you literally cannot touch:
Steel-types
Poison-types
Espeon
Xatu
Substitute users (most of which are faster Psychic or Ghost-type Pokemon that you'd comfortably beat with it)
Taunt users for the same reason as Sub
And more

Mega Aggron should always have Stealth Rock. Like Quagsire and Gastrodon with Recover, there really isn't a reason not to have this move on Aggron. Additionally, Fire Punch could be added to its moveset for the Bug/Steels and Ferrothorn that you traditionally do well against but lack a move like that to KO them outright.


Heliolisk and Pyroar don't need their respective weather moves. On both of these mons it ends up being a wasted moveslot, especially on Heliolisk when it gets Rain Dance/Volt Switch/Hyper Voice/HP Ice and ends up lacking something like Surf or Thunder to actually take advantage of the rain. It should keep Surf, but Thunder and Rain Dance should be eradicated from it's movesets, with Grass Knot and Focus Blast coming to mind as coverage moves that it can run instead. Additionally, if not already, Life Orb should be in its item pool along with the already existing Choice Specs. As for Pyroar, the corresponding Sunny Day and Solar Beam should be removed, with Hidden Power Grass maintaining the Grass coverage and Flamethrower as a secondary STAB being more ideal here. At the very least, they could use Life Orb over the weather extenders on their weather sets.


Double-Edge can probably replace Return on Mega Glalie. Like a lot of these mons previously mentioned you want all the power, and the recoil is not gonna end up mattering too much with a poor defensive typing and mediocre bulk.


Remove Mind Blown from Blacephalon. If it doesn't OHKO, which it actually won't on most things without a couple boosts, you will more than likey just lose your Blace. It already gets Fire Blast occasionally, so unless you're Calm Mind with Firium Z, Choice Specs, or some sort of AoA set, Fire Blast is always better. Even then, on the latter two you'd be running both Fire Blast and Mind Blown. Additionally, Fire Blast would be serviceable on Firium Z Calm Mind sets. Don't even get me started on that horrible, horrible amobination that is the Trick/Calm Mind/Mind Blown/Shadow Ball set that appears more often than it should. Can't reliably Calm Mind unless you Trick the Scarf away, and as stated earlier if Mind Blown doesn't OHKO whatever you hit then you basically die, meaning the only move you can reliably use while keeping Scarf is Shadow Ball, which is less than ideal unless it's relatively late in the game.
 
Earlier today I got this tornadus set:
166307

Looking to make sure it doesn't take acrobatics if it's running a Flyinium Z
 
So I've done some thinking and come to the conclusion Magnet Pull on Probopass is pretty darn bad. At the very least, the mon should be running sturdy more often, and at most, I think it should run sturdy 100% of the time. Magnet Pull sets without earth power are especially laughable, entirely unable to touch steels that aren't named skarmory, celesteela, or empoleon. Even with earth power, probo threatens a very small few steel types; many of which can punish it into the ground themselves thanks to wide distribution of fighting and ground moves. Unlike magneton and magnezone, probopass has no speed worth writing home about, and very lackluster offensive stats with which to dispatch steel type opposition. I made a spreadsheet to document my findings, and really only about 8 pokemon actually feel the pain of magnet pull. Compared to sturdy which will guarantee status or stealth rock, which is arguably about as good as this nose can really do.
 

Kalalokki

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So I've done some thinking and come to the conclusion Magnet Pull on Probopass is pretty darn bad. At the very least, the mon should be running sturdy more often, and at most, I think it should run sturdy 100% of the time. Magnet Pull sets without earth power are especially laughable, entirely unable to touch steels that aren't named skarmory, celesteela, or empoleon. Even with earth power, probo threatens a very small few steel types; many of which can punish it into the ground themselves thanks to wide distribution of fighting and ground moves. Unlike magneton and magnezone, probopass has no speed worth writing home about, and very lackluster offensive stats with which to dispatch steel type opposition. I made a spreadsheet to document my findings, and really only about 8 pokemon actually feel the pain of magnet pull. Compared to sturdy which will guarantee status or stealth rock, which is arguably about as good as this nose can really do.
I guess the problem is that Magnet Pull is ranked higher in terms of abilities in the code than Sturdy, since Magneton/Magnezone also get access to Sturdy but wouldn't want to run it most of the time, while you say it's the reverse for Probopass. It might be able to be solved in a more complicated way, but your spreadsheet also assumes that the mons in question gets the right move to be able to beat Probopass, which they always won't have. All in all, it's not terrible on it and I'm not sure it's worth the hassle to "fix" it.
 

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