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Pokemon Sun/Moon Random Battle sets

View attachment 163379

Having both Dragon Tail and Whirlwind seems incredibly redundant. Getting rid of one of them would also increase the chances that Lugia gets Roost, which I think most people would agree is a good thing.
I'd get rid of dragon tail, because even if whirlwind can't be used if taunted or against magic bouncers, the accuracy and the ability to phase fairies is more valuable, IMO.
 

breh

強いだね
sorry for long post, apologies if this is super tl;dr

The heal bell / toxic / wish / protect umbreon can't hit two whole types

How are items assigned? A lot of Pokemon that probably shouldn't have life orb tend to have life orb. The most egregious one is Quagsire (which should also always have recover but very often does not) but another one that I often find has issues is Escavalier (cb or leftovers is more suitable). Slow pokemon with good bulk / solid typing benefit more from leftovers almost all of the time

Sash on every other lead mon is infuriating because like 50% of the time it's pretty much the same thing as not having an item but you take extra damage from knock off. It helps for some pokemon that are naturally frail (lead Raichu, lead Omastar, whatever) but you get sash on defogger leads without recovery and just kind of cringe at the wasted slot your rotom-fan now sits in

air balloon on every pokemon it touches except for maybe offensive heatran (it has air balloon and lava plume / roar / protect??? why?) / stakataka is the same way, air balloon bastiodon ruins leftovers protect

Mega Sceptile is kind of a clusterfuck every time I see it and just feels really weak; it requires leaf storm (not in its movepool at all) at least and the physical moves that aren't earthquake shouldn't pop up without swords dance

If terrakion doesn't have both close combat and stone edge, it shouldn't be running earthquake

If cobalion doesn't have close combat, it shouldn't be running stone edge

mega slowbro should probably always have slack off

mega steelix can appreciate gyro, maybe restalk

mega pinsir should always have swords dance / return / QA / [eq or cc]; not having QA sucks and not having SD also sucks, mold breaker (earthquake) or hyper cutter (any set) are better than moxie because moxie is an awful ability (this goes for almost every pokemon with moxie that also has intimidate and especially for salamence / gyarados, scarfed krookodile is probably the only one that can even theoretically make it work half the time, scrafty likes not being burned or the -1 more). sometimes you just lose because your salamence / gyarados has moxie instead of giving you the free -1 you would need to set up to get the KO in the first place.

maybe I'm misremembering but I'm fairly sure I've seen volt swich agility ampharos

archeops could stand to have more support moves like endeavor and sr, esp endeavor with head smash

LO dhelmise is "slow mon that doesn't need LO"

maggron would like restalk

lati twins seem to get cm without roost and with draco meteor almost all of the time, latios cannot avoid this because it can't get dpulse

alolan sandslash shouldn't run sd for how slow it is, I feel the same way about normal sandslash given that it has two offensive moves in its movepool

bellossom without strength sap but with grass z is a wasted slot

carnivine with zmoves is bad, sub and SD are not moves it can use to good effect, honestly would probably get more use out of toxic or leech seed than return, sleep powder is its only redeeming feature

alolan persian should absolutely never have technician (remove hp fight) and the special sweeper sets are garbage that rely on dpulse flinches and hypnosis to brute force past your opponent; why this isn't just some normal foul play / toxic / parting shot / [filler] set or something is beyond me

primeape without u-turn, especially cb primeape without u-turn, feels empty

tentacruel with assault vest is a sin, it's a special wall without its recovery, I feel like I've seen this without rapid spin but it should always have it

LO muk is "slow mon that doesn't need LO", also would like restalk

restalk would also help amuk

I *believe* I've gotten marowak with double edge and lrod

chansey without attacking moves is on the level of the no attacks umbreon but at least it has natural cure

leafeon honestly probably appreciates return or even double edge more than it does x-scissor

scarf p-z is not objectively bad but really disappointing instead of z-conversion, malamar sets with LO are infinitely worse

omastar should have spikes + sr, never just one, and weak armor if it has both

moltres with substitute should never have flame body, especially if it has roost because you can actually stall out stone edge sometimes

what does earthquake on mmx do besides eat a slot that doesn't become one of its STAB moves

meganium can use protect with leech seed / toxic, the screens set without recovery hurts because unlike a lot of the other light clay ds mons it actually has recovery moves as well as the bulk to take advantage of them

double edge snorlax is a potential fun STAB move

life orb lanturn is the same problem as LO quagsire, LO volt switch when you have no spinners / defoggers is hell, hp grass is garbage

lack of twave or roost on togekiss sets makes them feel empty; heal bell / np / air slash / aura sphere is a waste

LO sudowoodo is unnecessary, would probably be nicer with leftovers, a resist berry, hard rock or custap even

sunflora with heat rock is shit and sun sunflora is bad to begin with compared to even toxic stalling via protect... leaf storm maybe??

substitute feels like a waste of space on girafarig a lot of the time because it's not like it's running cm or leftovers

forretress should always have rapid spin, forretress without hazards is a little empty

quick feet ursaring is bad; its speed tier is already bad at +1, randbats evs make it worse, and you don't just literally OHKO half the meta with facade without guts

magcargo should either be shell smash or recover / sr / lava plume / filler with 0 inbetween. sets without shell smash or recover, especially ones that also have air balloon, are pretty much an empty slot

delibird probably can just run [ice shard or icy wind] / rapid spin / spikes / dbond @ sash and call it a day, its attacks are incredibly weak (hitting like a base 97ish attack stat with 75 or 60 BP STAB with no boosting item), probably does not want hustle, why would a spiker want defog if it has rapid spin

skarmory should always have roost

restalk scrappy curse miltank is cool, it is really frustrating when this gets sap sipper way too often in place of thick fat

lugia without roost is the biggest waste of potential

LO dustox is a waste of an actually cool pokemon that can't get burned by scald, roost QD is weak but pretty reliable against neutral hitting special mons

does ludicolo ever get damp rock? anything that's not LO shouldn't exist

LO pelipper is awkward because it's SR weak and slow, damp rock is bad

sheer force hariyama is shit, it has two other stellar abilities that are thrown away for a boost to ice punch; conkeldurr has the same problem and braviary's is equally awful, especially considering how great of an ability defiant is

selfdestruct wailord? this is almost always a wasted teamslot, might as well make it funny

I don't think seviper can really use coil in the same way arbok can; I honestly think sludge bomb may be better than sludge wave because the greater poison chance feels more relevant than the tiny increase in damage that slow frail death fodder will tend to be able to do

restalk curse cradily is potentially fun, most games it just gets toxiced then fails to kill a celebi or something

LO kecleon is a waste because it has solid SpD and changeable resistances

dusknoir with substitute is stupid, I get that it's for subsplit but it's also dusknoir, it has no way to do decent damage to pokemon it can't burn / pokemon that don't care about being burned, night shade (stoss?) and toxic might help, I have had subpunch work exactly once to hit a chansey and it was a raw punch with no protection

tropius loves being able to stall leech seed turns via protect and both should be mandatory

when not running cb, earthquake on relicanth eats space that useful moves could fill

sweet kiss luvdisc is a dumb meme, best luvdisc can do is probably subtect toxic stall with scald in slot 4

I want to believe that I've seen registeel without leftovers, especially registeel with protect without leftovers

I believe I've seen air balloon empoleon and it is pretty much the same as no item empoleon

I've seen choice band bibarel and it's a waste of a pokemon that can actually kill mons if you're lucky; without simple SD it's just really bad

I've seen specs wormadam grass and it sucks, it really wants leftovers QD, leaf storm is garbage

life orb gastrodon without recover is the same problem as lo quag; recover should be on every set

leftovers / protect bronzong would be nice; I feel like I always get the light clay dual screens set and it never gets to take full advantage of its amazing typing and just kind of... dies

chatot needs to have boomburst on every set

LO lumineon kills a potentially useful defogger by giving it an item that hurts it when it uses u-turn or fishes for burns

I want to say that I've seen monoelec rotom-fan with wow and not being able to hit ground types is stupid

Shaymin-s gets a lot of sets, especially sets with leech seed, with seed flare / hp fire when it would really appreciate seed flare / air slash so it can actually win against grass types; seed flare / air slash should always be on it

Unfezant might as well have defog / roost since otherwise it's a weak pokemon that still fails to kill things even with super luck crits, pluck and night slash are garbage

Swoobat needs CM every time, same reason as bibarel

LO seismitoad is a waste, it doesn't hit very hard and it likes leftovers recovery, rain dance is bad

gothitelle with LO is a waste

rain dance swanna is nice but damp rock is bad

cryogonal needs rapid spin and recover every time, I think this also gets LO sometimes

I don't think dynamicpunch is good on golurk compared to iron fist, I'm not so keen on LO on this at all

QD-less volcarona is awkward

stone edge reshiram is silly when ho-oh is not on enough teams for it to matter

casette genesects are bad because they immediately announce themselves / your item and offer nothing of value

florges needs wishtect on every set, raw wish is really really awkward

LO furfrou is a waste

dual screens aromatisse is a waste of a pretty good wishtect mon

slurpuff without belly drum or calm mind is the absolute worst

natural cure rest trev kind of sucks

avalugg doesn't really need toxic or roar, roar especially; rapid spin, recover, and avalanche should be on every set

leech life and lunge are bad on araquanid

tsareena without rapid spin is disappointing

comfey is all right but would appreciate calm mind a lot

oranguru always seems to get sash (absolutely useless because it almost never dies in one hit); I'm not even sure nasty plot really works on it at all over something like CM (where it's at least like musharna with a fight neutrality / ghost immune)

block / spite pyukumuku should exist, innards out is bad compared to unaware

I have mixed feelings about shell smash + draco meteor turtonator; sometimes it helps you get KOes but it's also kind of dumb

dazzling bruxish is a letdown

why does tapu koko not get thunderbolt? brave bird is also a waste of a slot like 90% of the time... defog and roost are cool

lunala without roost is a waste of a good pokemon

acid spray is a waste of a slot on nihilego

idk if this is still a thing but I would end up with scarf buzzwole way too often; it has roost and can actually use it, superpower is kind of bad and cb can probably deal with hammer arm

idk how adding in z-moves works but z-hypnosis + tail glow would help make xurkitree less one dimensional than it tends to be

protect / leech seed celesteela is incredible and the weakness policy autotomize ones are less than inspiring

klefki without spikes is a waste, same goes for golisopod

haxorus needs eq no matter what set it runs, I don't think it has room for anything other than [dragon] / eq / pjab / [stat boost]

assault vest claydol is awful, I guess this is a thing where assault vest gets plopped onto rapid spinners

lo jellicent is bad and needs recover

air balloon corsola (bad) with natural cure (regenerator is one of the best abilities in the game)

moltres with substitute but no roost or leftovers, moltres with substitute and flame body
 
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breh

強いだね
holy cow this is long


https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/blob/master/data/random-teams.js <- Scroll down to "items" to read the code for how they're generated
sorry about not including the closing bracket

else if (this.getEffectiveness('Ground', template) >= 2 && ability !== 'Levitate' && !hasMove['magnetrise']) {
item = 'Air Balloon';

maybe make balloon only spawn if number of attacks is 3 or more and the mon is quad weak to ground, wasted slot when it gets put onto anything with a ground weak

else if (hasType['Grass'] && template.baseStats.spe <= 70 && hasMove['sleeppowder'] && counter.setupType && !teamDetails.zMove) {
item = 'Grassium Z';

I guess this causes z-grass on sleep powder bellossom and sleep powder carnivine; they're too slow to make this work (is that supposed to be a greater than?) and I don't really understand the logic

else if (slot === 0 && ability !== 'Regenerator' && ability !== 'Sturdy' && !counter['recoil'] && !counter['recovery'] && template.baseStats.hp + template.baseStats.def + template.baseStats.spd < 285) {
item = 'Focus Sash';

maybe add a check for pain split (not in the recovery counter but kind of like a recovery move?)? also restrict if there are hazard clearing moves

else if (ability === 'Super Luck') {
item = 'Scope Lens';

move this below the leftovers line or just delete? this is why unfezant always gets scope lens... I would genuinely be more enthused by silk scarf unfezant even

else if (hasMove['raindance']) {
item = (ability === 'Swift Swim' && counter.Status < 2) ? 'Life Orb' : 'Damp Rock';
} else if (hasMove['sunnyday']) {
item = (ability === 'Chlorophyll' && counter.Status < 2) ? 'Life Orb' : 'Heat Rock';

the rocks are kind of bad on anything that isn't phione; they end up on swanna (which has rain dance / roost or defog to proc this despite doing just fine with LO + 2 attacks) as well as some other mons that don't need them, they want to sweep with LO instead of not having that crucial 1.3 boost then just dying because they can't do enough damage

else if (counter.damagingMoves.length >= 3 && ability !== 'Sturdy' && !hasMove['acidspray'] && !hasMove['dragontail'] && !hasMove['foulplay'] && !hasMove['rapidspin'] && !hasMove['superfang']) {
item = (template.baseStats.hp + template.baseStats.def + template.baseStats.spd < 285 || !!counter['speedsetup'] || hasMove['trickroom']) ? 'Life Orb' : 'Leftovers';

this stat total is on the high end; this is why pokemon like lanturn (259), gastrodon (261), quagsire (245), escavalier (280) and a lot of others have life orb when they should have leftovers. maybe factor in speed also?

scald with SpA < 80 shouldn't count (lumineon uses scald to fish for burns, not for the damage), clear smog shouldn't count as an attack (gastro has this problem), u-turn and knock off shouldn't count for pokemon with no STAB & low attack (arbitrarily, <80)... gastrodon especially is a tangle of different issues as even recover + 3 attacks will still give it LO unless the stat total is changed

exclude if the mon has hazard clearing moves in general (good that rapid spin doesn't allow LO, bad that defog doesn't also since the combo of LO damage + hazards damage doesn't allow a hazard clearing mon to clear hazards without losing half of its health switching in)

else if (counter.Physical + counter.Special >= 4 && template.baseStats.spd >= 65 && template.baseStats.hp + template.baseStats.def + template.baseStats.spd >= 235) {
item = 'Assault Vest';

I guess this is why a bunch of garbage has assault vest; restrict if it has rapid spin, why is this total so low but the leftovers one is so high

} else if (ability === 'Sheer Force') {
rejectAbility = !counter['sheerforce'] || template.isMega || (abilities.includes('Iron Fist') && counter['ironfist'] > counter['sheerforce']);

maybe if one of the sheer force moves is STAB, ok, else, if the number of sheer force moves is greater than 1, ok, else reject (removes hariyama / braviary / conkeldurr, keeps gunk shot + fire punch druddigon)

reject natural cure if the pokemon has regenerator? I hope you don't mind hard coding just for corsola

will stop for now but maybe will post a bit more later
 
Breh mentioned this briefly in the huge wall up above, but please force terrakion to have close combat. I got this set today which put me in the awkward position of potentially losing 1v1 to a slower normal type.
 
else if (ability === 'Super Luck') {
item = 'Scope Lens';

move this below the leftovers line or just delete? this is why unfezant always gets scope lens... I would genuinely be more enthused by silk scarf unfezant even
That's the entire point though lol, Scope Lens gives it a niche for an otherwise useless mon and even in PU it's the most common item for it. What's not to love with a 50% chance of critical hits?
 

breh

強いだね
cleaning up the big post for readability since the smaller one is probably ok

sceptilemega: +leaf storm

steelixmega: +gyro ball, +rest, +sleep talk

aggronmega: +rest, +sleep talk

bellosson: +strength sap

latiosmega: +dragon pulse

sandslash: -swords dance

sandslashalola: -swords dance

carnivine: -swords dance, -return, -subsitute, +toxic, +leech seed, +protect

persianalola: -hidden power fighting, -hypnosis, +foul play, +parting shot, +toxic, +taunt

muk: +rest, +sleep talk

mukalola: +rest, +sleep talk

leafeon: -xscissor, +return

mewtwomegax: -earthquake

snorlax: +double-edge

lanturn: -hidden power grass

meganium: +protect

delibird: -defog, -ice punch, -aerial ace, +rapid spin, +icy wind

miltank: +rest, +sleep talk

dustox: -u-turn, -shadow ball //this will stop it from getting LO

seviper: -coil

cradily: +rest, +sleep talk

dusknoir: -substitute, -focus punch, +seismic toss, +toxic

luvdisc: -sweet kiss, -ice beam, +substitute

wormadam: -leaf storm //sadly does not get rid of LO by itself

bronzong: +protect

unfezant: +defog, -night slash, -pluck //defog hypnosis is fun

reshiram: -stone edge

araquanid: -leech life, -lunge

comfey: +calm mind

oranguru: +calm mind

pyukumuku: +soak, +block, +spite

tapu koko: +thunderbolt, +defog, +roost

nihilego: -acid spray

buzzwole: +roost, +hammer arm

xurkitree: +hypnosis

celesteela: +flamethrower

muk: +explosion

mukalola: +explosion

persianalola: +thunderbolt

persianalola: -dark pulse, -nasty plot, -power gem

leafeon: +double edge

porygonz: -trick, -nasty plot

malamar: -psycho cut

togekiss: +trick, +fire blast, +flamethrower, +dazzling gleam

sunflora: +leaf storm

wailord: +selfdestruct

golurk: -dynamic punch

oranguru: -nasty plot, -trick room

tapu koko: -brave bird

celesteela: -air slash, -earthquake

girafarig: -substitute

corsola: -power gem

substitute and recovery > reject ability Flame Body (and other contact abilities)

reject quick feet (less confident)

reject innards out (less confident)

has psychic fangs > reject dazzling (bruxish can't use this well; this is a backwards way of forcing psychic fangs)

case 'defog':
if (counter.setupType || hasMove['spikes'] || hasMove['stealthrock'] || (hasMove['rest'] && hasMove['sleeptalk']) || teamDetails.hazardClear) rejected = true;
break;

defog + hazards isn't necessarily bad (see skarmory, gligar, etc.), it's kind of crazy that just one defogger / spinner is enough to reject more defoggers / spinners, this explains why all of my randbats teams are so helpless when it comes to hazard removal so much of the time

can hazardclear be just made to count up per each hazard clear mon rather than set to 1 if defog or rapid spin exists? 1 defogger / spinner is often not enough when a fair chunk are bad... hard to create a clean metric for how weak a team is to hazards (maybe like add 2 per quad sr weak, 1.5 per double weak, 1 per grounded mon, -1 if grounded poison type on team, -.5 if contrary mon on team, if over arbitrary limit let team be "hazards weak" and hazardclear < 2)

apologies if I'm misunderstanding and you can have multiple defoggers / spinners per team

case 'dracometeor':
if (hasMove['swordsdance'] || counter.setupType === 'Physical' && hasMove['outrage']) rejected = true;
break;

I think cm / draco meteor latios is bad (add special setup restrictions)

case 'healbell':
if (counter['speedsetup']) rejected = true;
break;

maybe reject for if it has 3 non-attacking moves

add wish case that rejects move if the pokemon doesn't have protect, (recovery moves and is chansey or blissey... an earlier case rejects this tho), or regenerator (idk if you can reference abilities at this point?)?

remove drive genesect if possible or at least raise its level by one or two? pls;;

terrakion: force close combat + stone edge

cobalion: restrict stone edge with no fighting STAB (cc or fblast)

slowbromega: force slack off

pinsirmega: force swords dance + return + quick attack

primeape: if 3 attacks force u-turn in slot 4

umbreon: force foul play

chansey: force seismic toss

omastar: force two hazards or no hazards

togekiss: force thunder wave or roost or trick

forretress: force rapid spin //maybe also force one of sr or spikes

magcargo: force recover or shell smash

lugia: force roost

tropius: force leech seed and protect

relicanth: force waterfall, head smash

bibarel: force non-attacking move //if curse ever gets here

chatot: force boomburst

shaymin-sky: force seed flare, air slash

swoobat: force calm mind

cryogonal: force rapid spin, recover

volcarona: force quiver dance if not specs

florges: force wish, protect

avalugg: force rapid spin, recover, avalanche

tsareena: force rapid spin

bruxish: force psychic fangs

lunala: force roost

klefki: force spikes

golisopod: force spikes

haxorus: force earthquake, poison jab

jellicent: force recover

I'm glad that I at least understand 1% of how mon generation works now (kind of) but it doesn't seem like you can force pokemon have given moves; it makes a lot of pokemon spawn without moves that are pivotal for them and makes some (spinners, defoggers, hazard setters, and pokemon that like recovery moves especially) much, much worse

ascriptmaster you get crit by night slash or pluck then realize you take 40% from that :/ I think defog + roost would give it more of a niche (this is what makes me excited to see normal pidgeot) and defog + hypnosis is funny

also something like that z-grass line would be nice for z-psychic + hypnosis + a reasonable speed range (let's say 60-100) instead of less than 70
 
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Hard no on Unfezant. I don't know what you're going against but if you're really doing less than 40% you really ought to switch out instead. (Or click Hypnosis, I guess.) It's in the lowest tier (highest level), and has a base 115 Attack/93 Speed, which makes it hit quite hard and fast for something that has 50% crit rate off STAB Return. I distinctly remember Crit Unfezant was super popular when it was first implemented and people were talking about how strong it was. Also 80/80/55 defenses is kinda rough for a Defog set

I'll look at the rest later but my initial thoughts are as following. In no particular order:
  1. Mega Steelix weighs a massive 740 kg!!! There's a lot of things that it can hit harder with Slam that it can't with Gyro Ball. Probably. I'll need to redo a proper analysis later.
  2. Why is Leech Life bad on Araquanid again?? It should always get a Water move for Water Bubble anyways so I don't see the problem
  3. Defog is 300% the better hazard removal on Delibird. Nobody wants a Hustle miss on Rapid Spin to screw up their day. This was actually a complaint from maybe a month ago which is why it now has Defog, and there's no way I'm reversing on this decision, because, well, Hustle (and don't even THINK about suggesting Insomnia, the poor santa birb is weak enough as is)
  4. TI loves Banded Buzzwole too much to give it Bulk Up or Roost and ruin the Choiced magic. But then again, if you're always getting Scarfed Buzzwole.....
  5. Why does Mega Aggron want RestTalk again? Doesn't seem very useful unless it's a Curse Aggron
  6. Why Dazzling Gleam Togekiss? Being stuck with not-air-slash is a detriment to the flinch machine
  7. Hypnosis Xurkitree has been discussed in the past and um, nah I don't think it's worth it
  8. Snorlax is a bulky boi who want big health. Double-Edge hurts him more than it will help.
  9. Cradily be like, why use 2 move (RestTalk) when 1 move (Recover) do trick
  10. that's a lot of explosions
 

breh

強いだね
unfezant: anything can appreciate defog when many teams spawn without spinners or defoggers then you just lose because you have 3 sr weak mons and can't counter sr + spikes; meme items are meme items but 9 times out of 10 I would appreciate defog over pluck or night slash

1: sadly you can't really influence moves but via curse + restalk gyro is potentially cooler and hits a higher bp, restalk also gets around its shit pp, same way as aggron the only way this wall restores its health is via restalk

2: araquanid is really really really weak when it uses a non-water move and leech life steals a support move's slot, but if you want to keep it keep it... just please toss lunge :[ also maybe add scald? item suggestions of z-water (if ability = water bubble and has liquidation) or water plate or mystic water if ability = water bubble would be cool too since a lot of teams end up without z items sooo why not

3: if you read above, it's about a 97ish base attack using a base 60 STAB move and a base 75 STAB move (this one at 80% acc). that's a middling attack with awful base power that doesn't get boosted (I think every delibird I've seen spawns with focus sash). audino does more damage with double edge, which really speaks to how bad those move bps are. delibird's value in randbats comes from rapid spin (rare), spikes (rare), and the ability to kill something slower than it with dbond, all on one mon. I don't think it needs to have any attack that doesn't literally just break sashes (or break sashes and lower speed) and do nothing else. hell, at least without hustle you can break the sashes 100% of the time instead of 80% of the time.

5: it has no recovery moves and (unlike on stall) doesn't always come with wish users to help it not get chipped down; it wants to be able to recover its HP so it doesn't eat one hit you need it to eat, para that mon or maybe do like 90% with heavy slam, and then die

6: it's not that good at flinching when it doesn't get twave ~50% of the time at the current moment

7: k

8: double edge eats as a percentage of HP that the pokemon deals. snorlax has such a disproportionately large HP stat to take from that the percent HP it loses is relatively low unless you're trying to KO wailord, chansey, or blissey.. it's a little less bland than return, too, which feels like a disappointing body slam, and pairs pretty nice with leftovers / choice band... it's actually kind of like scald / surf / hydro pump where all 3 are potentially viable depending on the pokemon

9: why use one move and die to toxic when two move not die to toxic

10: selfdestruct would probably do more on wailord than its non-STAB moves like 90% of the time lol
 
I just got a Z-Conversion Porygon-Z with Nasty Plot in its first slot instead of an attack. Is it possible to force moves to appear in a certain order?
 
I just got a Z-Conversion Porygon-Z with Nasty Plot in its first slot instead of an attack. Is it possible to force moves to appear in a certain order?
  1. Yes, Conversion is specifically moved to another random slot if it happens to be at the front of the list. (And no other check is made at this time.)
  2. Conversion + Nasty Plot shouldn't really happen anyways, so it might be a bug?
 

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
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I just got a Z-Conversion Porygon-Z with Nasty Plot in its first slot instead of an attack. Is it possible to force moves to appear in a certain order?
I’ve been meaning to do something about Porygon-Z for a while. I’ll work on it. Something like, only giving it Conversion under perfect circumstances.
 

Coronis

N'Cha!
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Had a Beheeyem with NP/Signal/Psychic/Psyshock, surely it could use something other than double STAB? Also a Vikavolt without Bug Buzz :(
 
I guess Sheer Force Kingler should prefer Liquidation to Crabhammer.
That already is the case. :P

blablabla
My comments in red in the spoilers.

sceptilemega: +leaf storm
Agreed with this. Since it gets mixed attacks, the SpAtk drop might not be as bad as it seems, and it's much more potent than Giga Drain, which should still be kept IMO. (unless this results in it getting leaf storm, giga drain and leaf blade ...)

steelixmega: +gyro ball, +rest, +sleep talk
Not sure about rest-talk, but I think gyro ball could definitely work. It would get 52 speed with 0 IV and EV (iirc that's what's done for gyro ball users). Assuming 31 IVs and 84 EVs in speed for the opponent, it would have a 80 BP against opponents with a speed of around 165 (so base speed of 82 for lvl 84 pokémon, 98 for lvl 73 pokémon). Most of the Pokémon probably fit that criteria. However, I assume most, if not more, Pokémon fill the weight criteria too.

aggronmega: +rest, +sleep talk
Not a fan, even though it could work with curse + rest talk thanks to its physical bulk.

bellosson: +strength sap
I prefer Bellossom as it currently is. Z-grass is a pretty fun set.

latiosmega: +dragon pulse
Totally agree with this.

sandslash: -swords dance
SD allows it to put pressure, but with only EQ and knock off, yep, I'm not sure it fits. Maybe if it had access to one more physical move (rock slide, x-scissor), it would be better. But it would remove its utility, I think. I wouldn't mind SD removed.

sandslashalola: -swords dance
Alolan-Sandslash, however, has access to a pretty good array of physical moves which it can make use of in iron head, icicle crash, knock off and EQ. I'd keep SD on it.

carnivine: -swords dance, -return, -subsitute, +toxic, +leech seed, +protect
We have enough toxic stallers, IMO, so I'd keep it as is. It's fun to play with, especially if you get the Z set.

persianalola: -hidden power fighting, -hypnosis, +foul play, +parting shot, +toxic, +taunt
With its speed, I totally think parting shot and taunt should be part of its set.

muk: +rest, +sleep talk
Not a fan, because getting rest-talk curse with gunk shot or poison jab is awful.

mukalola: +rest, +sleep talk
Not a fan either, I prefer coverage in its case.

leafeon: -xscissor, +return
X-scissor provides much more coverage. It should keep it.

mewtwomegax: -earthquake
Drain Punch, Zen Headbutt and Stone Edge don't really cut it. EdgeQuake is always an amazing combo. Not sure why it should be remove unless it's to add another coverage option.

snorlax: +double-edge
This could work on a rest-talk set, but other than that, not a fan, even if it has gargantuan HP.

lanturn: -hidden power grass
HP grass is super important on electric types, although I understand this could prevent it from getting choice specs.

meganium: +protect
Agreed.

delibird: -defog, -ice punch, -aerial ace, +rapid spin, +icy wind
We just recently argued to have defog over rapid spin, and I much prefer defog, even if it's also a spiker. When this shitmon is your only hope to remove hazards and your team is full of rock weaknesses, missing is awful. I understand the idea behind making it a pure utility mon with insomnia instead of hustle, but eh.

miltank: +rest, +sleep talk
Not sure why this is necessary with milk drink. However, I do think giving it scrappy with facade, curse, rest and rest talk could be fun. But I think this could lead to some pretty undesirable sets.

dustox: -u-turn, -shadow ball //this will stop it from getting LO


seviper: -coil
Agreed with this.

cradily: +rest, +sleep talk
I prever recover, even though rest-talk cures status. We don't need every curse mon to get rest-talk.

dusknoir: -substitute, -focus punch, +seismic toss, +toxic
I wouldn't remove substitute or focus punch because they can be really good, and it has pretty low HP to really make use of seismic toss, but I think toxic would be great.

luvdisc: -sweet kiss, -ice beam, +substitute
Ice beam prevents it from being a set up fodder (even though it can toxic stall with protect/sub). I just don't want toxic stallers everywhere. They're not fun to play with or against, and I play randbats to have quick fun.

wormadam: -leaf storm //sadly does not get rid of LO by itself
Leaf storm isn't bad on it.

bronzong: +protect
I think this could be decent.

unfezant: +defog, -night slash, -pluck //defog hypnosis is fun
I'd keep it the same way. It's fun to play with, although defog could at least make hypnosis more accurate, but eh.

reshiram: -stone edge
I think it's a pretty important coverage move for the likes of Ho-oh and Moltres, but it's true I don't really use it outside of that.

araquanid: -leech life, -lunge
Disagree with that. Lunge is pretty good as it allows it to slow down physical set uppers and to become a physical and special tank. While leech life is a decent recovery.

comfey: +calm mind
Not sure this would work in randbats.

oranguru: +calm mind
Nasty plot is better, IMO.

pyukumuku: +soak, +block, +spite
I know it's a popular set, but not sure this would fit for randbats.

tapu koko: +thunderbolt, +defog, +roost
I prefer volt switch and wild charge over thunder bolt. Defog would be a nice add, however. Not sure about roost.

nihilego: -acid spray
I don't mind acid spray, and I've been in several situations where it turned out being useful (calm mind opponent, allowing you to die while gaining momentum if you have other special attackers...)

buzzwole: +roost, +hammer arm
I've wanted bulk up/roost for a while, but it seems we're never gonna get it. :P

xurkitree: +hypnosis
Gimmicky and potentially deadly, true, but I prefer the reliability of the choiced sets.

celesteela: +flamethrower
It gets fire blast, which is much better in its case since it doesn't have high special attack to start with, and I'm pretty sure many Pokémon weak to fire would still not die from a +2 flamethrower.

muk: +explosion
Nope. Memento is much better, IMO.

mukalola: +explosion
Doesn't need it.

persianalola: +thunderbolt -dark pulse, -nasty plot, -power gem
Not sure what t-bolt brings over power gem. I understand removing dark pulse if it gets foul play as suggested before.

leafeon: +double edge
Not a fan at all, especially since I think it shouldn't get return.

porygonz: -trick, -nasty plot
Nope, Porygon-Z, although it could use some fixes, won't always have its z-set.

malamar: -psycho cut


togekiss: +trick, +fire blast, +flamethrower, +dazzling gleam
I don't see why it needs fire blast when aura sphere provides better coverage. Dazzling Gleam is pretty useless. Not sure why it should get trick, either.

sunflora: +leaf storm
I think it's better to keep it that way, although I do see a potential use to it.

wailord: +selfdestruct
....................................

golurk: -dynamic punch
No guard DP is pretty good IMO. I've never really complained (during a battle, of course) about not getting iron fist, since EQ isn't affected and shadow punch is already weak as hell.

oranguru: -nasty plot, -trick room
I've won many games thanks to TR/NP. There aren't many Trick Room users in randbats, so I wouldn't touch it.

tapu koko: -brave bird
Brave Bird has saved me several times, and allows you to catch grass, bug and fighting types (assuming no dazzling gleam) off guard.

celesteela: -air slash, -earthquake
WP Celesteela is super fun, and I don't want to lose it to have another staller. It's okay to have sets that might not be viable in actual competitive fighting.

girafarig: -substitute
I think sub is fine, but I wouldn't mind it removed either.

corsola: -power gem
It needs the coverage.

On top of that, I think Drive Genesect is pretty good and shouldn't be nixed. And I'm not a fan of forcing moves in random battles at all.
 
leafeon: -xscissor, +return
X-scissor provides much more coverage. It should keep it.

[....]

leafeon: +double edge
Not a fan at all, especially since I think it shouldn't get return.
I feel like the overlapping resistances on Leaf Blade + X-Scissor is detrimental to Leafeon (especially since it doesn't get Bug STAB) so I'm kind of considering Double-Edge for the improved neutral coverage? It's even on its PU/ZU analyses for this gen. If we give it Normalium-Z like the analysis if it also has Swords Dance, then I think it could be pretty cool. Anyways, discuss.

EDIT: It would definitely not be getting Return
 

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