SPOILERS! Pokemon Sword & Shield Pre-Release SPOILERS - Check Post 2!

[Pushinguplilacs]

Could Curse Regenerator be viable? Speaking of which, I wonder if Dragapult will get access to Curse and if anyone would actually run it...

Curse regenerator, if it's a thing....maybe? Dragapult? Not a chance, I doubt it'll even get it, doesn't seem lore-plausible.

As Pushinguplilacs said, so can its counters (and Grimmsnarl at least comes with a G-Max) but also, at this point Maxing is something we don't have enough info on to really discuss it in too much detail I think. Probably also if it's good enough to run without maxing then you'd probably want to save it for one of your other pokemon. Kind of a similar situation to more powerful pokemon that got access to megas.

Man-splaining for a lady, how typical.

Jokes aside, a key thing to keep in mind for dynamaxing is it's not something you need to decide upon building the team...you can decide who dyna's in the heat of the moment. A dragapult dyna'd in the match? Alright, Bisharp it is. Dragapult didn't? Alright gyarados destroy everything.

Can't say much on giga's yet because we don't have too much info yet.

So, not only is Nintendo now cracking down on servers discussing the leaks, the Centroleaks twitter has been suspended.

See you all in prison <3

 

[MrHands]

Lmao why are people forgetting that this thing can Dynamax after getting a dragon dance, essentially giving it two to three different item boosted mini z moves for 3 turns?

Because everything can Dynamax at any point in time with no warning which takes the concept of counters, checks, and a skilled metagame and tosses it in the toilet.

 

[Pushinguplilacs]

Because everything can Dynamax at any point in time with no warning which takes the concept of counters, checks, and a skilled metagame and tosses it in the toilet.

I wouldn't be so fast to say that. I think it's doing what game freak wants it to do: Completely shit on everything we know about competitive.

Will the metagame still be skill based? Yes probably. It all comes down to: what on your team can most effectively use dynamaxing or gigamaxing in the current battle. Likely not all of your team will be built around dynamaxing but it needs to be built around the fact that dynamaxing will be happening and how best can you combat difficult situations that threaten your team with your 3 turn power boost window? I don't think that completely shits on the concept of counters and checks, but it certainly shakes things up.

I'm, frankly, in ecstacy at the thought of the possibilities and differences our new meta will hold.

 

[Sexual Fresh Green]

Because everything can Dynamax at any point in time with no warning which takes the concept of counters, checks, and a skilled metagame and tosses it in the toilet.

You say this like Z-Moves and Mega Evolutions weren;t a thing.

 

[MrHands]

You say this like Z-Moves and Mega Evolutions weren;t a thing.

Yeah and they were awful.

Now we have a gimmick that gives you a Mega + 3 turns of Z moves (many of which give free stat boosts) + an item and we give this ability to literally any Pokemon at any given time.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I think gen 7 will end up being the more balanced, fair meta. Gen 8 looks like Smash Bros with smash balls + items on max and also everyone in the room is drunk... which, granted, could be a lot of fun.

 

[SirCloud]

Because everything can Dynamax at any point in time with no warning which takes the concept of counters, checks, and a skilled metagame and tosses it in the toilet.

you could just swap “dynamax” with ”z move” and you’d get basically what we thought the metagame would look like in 2016, we‘ll have to see how dynamax works before saying it removes skill from the game.

 

[PimpParasect]

You say this like Z-Moves and Mega Evolutions weren;t a thing.

Except you can boil down what the mega is on somebody's team at preview.

z-moves did add a little bit of unpredictability but you can still figure out if its holding a z-crystal via switching in on knock off, leftovers/life orb activation, being slower but outspeeding with scarf anyway, etc. With Dynamax, any pokemon can just use at any time so its trickier to react to. They could dynamax a tank just to get off some weather or terrian for a late game setup sweeper. Only times it may be obvious is if they're using a shitmon with a G-max form (butterfree for instance)

 

[Sexual Fresh Green]

Yeah and they were awful.

Now we have a gimmick that gives you a Mega + 3 turns of Z moves (many of which give free stat boosts) + an item and we give this ability to literally any Pokemon at any given time.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I think gen 7 will end up being the more balanced, fair meta. Gen 8 looks like Smash Bros with smash balls + items on max and also everyone in the room is drunk... which, granted, could be a lot of fun.

There's actually an inherently negative quality to dynamaxing: if any pokemon can do it (and i'm sure its not any pokemon, it's probably locked to once per battle like any mechanic ever introduced) then because of the 3 turn cap whoever dynamaxes first likely loses the engagement.

Except you can boil down what the mega is on somebody's team at preview.

z-moves did add a little bit of unpredictability but you can still figure out if its holding a z-crystal via switching in on knock off, leftovers/life orb activation, being slower but outspeeding with scarf anyway, etc. Dynamax any pokemon can just use at any time so its trickier to react to. They could dynamax a tank just to get off some weather or terrian for a late game setup sweeper.

And you can boil down who has a D/G-Max mon (assuming a 1 per battle cap) by simply knowing what mons have a G-max. There is no reason to use anything but G-Max mons if they didn't have a cap, and with a cap G-Max pokemon are superior.

MOD EDIT: Please don't double post

 

[Blazen]

For whoever is updating the spreadsheet, it says this for Steel Beam:

"User receives recoil damage equal to ½ of the damage done to the target."

Doesn't it take away half the user's HP though? I thought it was basically a steel type Mind Blown.

 

[Bombkirby]

Because everything can Dynamax at any point in time with no warning which takes the concept of counters, checks, and a skilled metagame and tosses it in the toilet.

Dynamaxing lasts 3 measly turns. If anything it'll bring back the need for Walls/Stall teams who can outlast your Dynamax. If you outlast their D-Max, then they totally waste their chance to set up stat boosts, whether changes, and debuffs. And even if they DO set up you can defog away their stat boosts with your own Dynamax moves or utility Pokemon. The mechanic has a lot of counterplay because of it's turn limit and one-chance-at-this mentality.

 

[Ironmage]

Personally, my issue with 'Maxing being applied on the spot is that it disincentivizes building specific sets around it. Since building sets around specific things is what I enjoy most about the game, whether or not it's more balanced loses out to it sure seeming to be less fun.

 

[MrHands]

Dynamaxing lasts 3 measly turns. If anything it'll bring back the need for Walls/Stall teams who can outlast your Dynamax. If you outlast their D-Max, then they totally waste their chance to set up stat boosts, whether changes, and debuffs. And even if they DO set up you can defog away their stat boosts with your own Dynamax moves or utility Pokemon. The mechanic has a lot of counterplay because of it's turn limit and one-chance-at-this mentality.

I imagine when that +1 DD Gyarados suddenly doubles its HP and starts spitting Z moves at you for 3 turns you'll change your mind very quickly.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

There is no reason to use anything but G-Max mons if they didn't have a cap, and with a cap G-Max pokemon are superior.

Yeah, why set up the sun with your Fire moves and have great synergy with your hidden ability, when you can inflict chip damage?

 

[Sexual Fresh Green]

For whoever is updating the spreadsheet, it says this for Steel Beam:

"User receives recoil damage equal to ½ of the damage done to the target."

Doesn't it take away half the user's HP though? I thought it was basically a steel type Mind Blown.

Dynamaxing lasts 3 measly turns. If anything it'll bring back the need for Walls/Stall teams who can outlast your Dynamax. If you outlast their D-Max, then they totally waste their chance to set up stat boosts, whether changes, and debuffs. And even if they DO set up you can defog away their stat boosts with your own Dynamax moves or utility Pokemon. The mechanic has a lot of counterplay because of it's turn limit and one-chance-at-this mentality.

Not to mention that while double HP is v

I imagine when that +1 DD Gyarados suddenly doubles its HP and starts spitting Z moves at you for 3 turns you'll change your mind very quickly.

Then you go into a Toxapex, or a water type.

You also act like D-Max moves can be used more than once

 

[PimpParasect]

There is no reason to use anything but G-Max mons if they didn't have a cap, and with a cap G-Max pokemon are superior.

This we don't know yet, G-max forms afaik only benefit over dynamax in that they change one of the moves to do a special effect, it may be strategically better to save dyna for a late game cleaner; ex say you have a comp of ferrothorn, toxapex, centiskorch, barraskewda, rotom-wash, and frosmoth 1 of those have a G max form, but if the wincon is a clean up with barraskewda they may dyna that instead, or dyna the toxapex, spam knock off (max-dark lowers their special defense when it hits), then let rotom or frosmoth either force it out or clean up.

Skill is mostly going to depend on how you use dynamax reactively it seems, and how the opponent will respond to it. Otherwise you can't really scout out what the dynamax will be in preview or mid game like you can with Z-moves and megas.

 

[Sexual Fresh Green]

Yeah, why set up the sun with your Fire moves and have great synergy with your hidden ability, when you can inflict chip damage?

Well I mean, a full team of any pokemon with double HP and unique stat changes and special moves is very good, I feel.

Mostly meant D-Maxing being superior to G-Maxing though.

 

[Blitz]

For whoever is updating the spreadsheet, it says this for Steel Beam:

"User receives recoil damage equal to ½ of the damage done to the target."

Doesn't it take away half the user's HP though? I thought it was basically a steel type Mind Blown.

Yea I recall this. Fixed.

 

[Zetalz]

Yea I recall this. Fixed.

Corviknight's BST is listed as 430 in the dex section but 530 in the New Mons sections

 

[Blazen]

And you can boil down who has a D/G-Max mon (assuming a 1 per battle cap) by simply knowing what mons have a G-max. There is no reason to use anything but G-Max mons if they didn't have a cap, and with a cap G-Max pokemon are superior.

Not necessarily. It looks like the only difference between G-Max and D-Max is that one of the Max moves gets a different effect. If that's the case then there will likely be times where the one is preferred over the other. For instance, Drednaw probably would prefer to setup rain with its water moves than toss out steal rocks. Also Max is limited to once per battle. That was already confirmed.

I'd argue though that needing to be wary of Max pokemon as an option would add more to the strategy and prediction since it's another factor to consider with every move. At any point your setup sweeper could be blocked and whoever uses theirs first no longer has it as a way to answer their opponent's. On top of that, a Maxed pokemon reverts early if they switch out, meaning staying locked into an unfavorable matchup or sacrificing more max turns if you don't plan well for it.

 

[Sexual Fresh Green]

Not necessarily. It looks like the only difference between G-Max and D-Max is that one of the Max moves gets a different effect. If that's the case then there will likely be times where the one is preferred over the other. For instance, Drednaw probably would prefer to setup rain with its water moves than toss out steal rocks. Also Max is limited to once per battle. That was already confirmed.

I'd argue though that needing to be wary of Max pokemon as an option would add more to the strategy and prediction since it's another factor to consider with every move. At any point your setup sweeper could be blocked and whoever uses theirs first no longer has it as a way to answer their opponent's. On top of that, a Maxed pokemon reverts early if they switch out, meaning staying locked into an unfavorable matchup or sacrificing more max turns if you don't plan well for it.

See, I'm an idiot and explain things weird. This is what I was trying to say

I am far from well educated on the exact rules of dynamaxing but I see no real issue with it. There's natural checks built into dynamaxing itself.

 

[Pushinguplilacs]

And you can boil down who has a D/G-Max mon (assuming a 1 per battle cap) by simply knowing what mons have a G-max. There is no reason to use anything but G-Max mons if they didn't have a cap, and with a cap G-Max pokemon are superior.

Idk why you keep saying assuming. That's like the one thing about dyna and giga maxing we have confirmed, it's once per battle.

Dynamaxing seems more like a fail safe tactic to counter strong teams that have an advantage over your team on an initial glance. It seems to be a more effective use of the z-move thought process. "Things not going your way? Throw this trump card out" Effectively used it could turn the tide, but I don't think it inherently is going to make the meta a shit show, and if you don't like it, I'm sure there's going to be a rule set where it's not used/played in. If not on the carts, I'm sure our lovely showdown boys will give us such a leisure.

 

[Rarycaris]

Dynamax is an inherently more defense-oriented mechanic than Z-moves are. The reason gen 7 has become such a matchup guessing game is that failing to accurately predict a Z-move pretty much always means losing a Pokemon on the spot, which in turn will usually cost you the match. Max Moves are significantly weaker than Z-moves and are largely threatening because of their on-hit effects, which adds an element of counterplay rather than being an instant OHKO fuck you button.

When you can instantly give any of your Pokemon double HP, the sweeper who just comes in and OHKOs everything after one turn of setup has a much tougher time doing so.

It also helps that you're never going to be screwed because you used your Z-crystal on something that it's not useful for in that matchup. Dynamax allows you to make the optimal choice during play rather than during teambuilding.

 

[MrHands]

Max Moves are significantly weaker than Z-moves

I'm gonna need a source on this. Even if this is true you still get to hold an item. Life Orb Fire Blast is 77% as powerful as Inferno Overdrive so even if they have lower base power they're still likely to be dealing comparable damage, if not outright much more.

 

[Pushinguplilacs]

Dynamax is an inherently more defense-oriented mechanic than Z-moves are. The reason gen 7 has become such a matchup guessing game is that failing to accurately predict a Z-move pretty much always means losing a Pokemon on the spot, which in turn will usually cost you the match. Max Moves are significantly weaker than Z-moves and are largely threatening because of their on-hit effects, which adds an element of counterplay rather than being an instant OHKO fuck you button.

When you can instantly give any of your Pokemon double HP, the sweeper who just comes in and OHKOs everything after one turn of setup has a much tougher time doing so.

It also helps that you're never going to be screwed because you used your Z-crystal on something that it's not useful for in that matchup. Dynamax allows you to make the optimal choice during play rather than during teambuilding.

This is a much more eloquent way of saying what I was trying to get across. Dynamaxing seems to be implemented so less skilled players can get back momentum (or just to build back momentum in general)

 

[Bombkirby]

I feel like it'll mostly be used so Pokemon can set up without dying. Like Falinks has a move that boosts every stat it has, but it has no recovery, so maybe a D-Max HP boost will give it the time it needs to get to boost itself to the point where it can no longer take any lethal damage and begin to sweep. Though I'm not sure how boosting moves work when D-Maxed. Do they change into generic D-Max moves?