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Pokemon that disappointed you in-game despite looking good initially?
- Thread starter DrumstickGaming
- Start date
And THAT'S why Weevil threw Yugi's Exodia cards overboard. I guess in a way we have that little creep to thank for making the show more interesting by not having Yugi auto-win most of his duels.
... Also this is the obligatory video:
I'm a big fan of the Flygon line, with their interesting designs and unique typing
On paper, the typing has the makings of a good mon, both Ground and Dragon are generally considered to be strong typings and have natural synergy with one another, letting it hit everything not named Skarmory for at least neutral damage. That said, the typing is immediately let down in this game. For one thing, the strongest moves of both typings are nowhere to be seen. The TMs for Earthquake and Dragon Claw, as well as the tutor for Draco Meteor, are all locked to post-game. Which is a shame, especially in the case of Draco Meteor as Flygon's the only Dragon type available in the BW2 main game with an even decent Special Attack stat. You'd think at this point its level-up movepool would bail it out, but alas. Its strongest Ground STAB, in terms of base power, is Earth Power, leaving you with either that, Dig, or Bulldoze as your Ground moves of choice. Not very efficient no matter which way you split it. Even Dragon Claw is learned at level 55, just before the Pokemon League. Your only other Dragon STABs until then are DBreath and DTail, both options so terrible they're genuinely not worth running at all. Flygon already has kinda mediocre attacking stats by this game's standards, and so having some strong STAB options would really help out in that regard, but no. STAB Bulldoze. Badass.
The actual matchups Ground/Dragon gives you are kinda scarce as well. There's Elesa, Colress, and that's kinda it. Drayden counts on paper, although your lack of strong Dragon STAB combined with the fact that you're just as weak to him as he is to you makes it a bad mu in practice. Clay technically also counts since you have Levitate beginning with Vibrava, giving you a de-facto immunity to his STAB moves and with Eviolite you genuinely wall his Excadrill, however getting Trapinch to level 35 in time for Clay is gonna take some good grinding and just barely hits what is a realistic amount of overleveling for Clay as is. Outside of those situations, Flygon's typing does it no favors, and, combined with its lack of power, means it struggles to show up in just about every other mu outside of those 2-3. Crunch kinda carries it at League (it also does well vs Grimsley cuz lul Grimsley sucks) but realistically you're not really gonna sweep any League member since you lack the raw bulk or resistances to eat the repeated hits you're gonna take on account of 2-3hkoing everything even with super-effective coverage.
Essentially, Flygon lacks the movepool, stats, or type matchups to really excel in this game. It does randomly have its uses, and a good Colress mu is nothing to sneeze at, but I feel like whatever it does can be better replicated by a better Ground type. Sandile is way more common than Trapinch, has the better stats, typing, and movepool, and fulfills all the same mus that Trapinch does while having so many more due to Moxie shenanigans. Even Sandslash is better due to natural EQ and SD. There's basically no reason to use Flygon aside from the fact that you wanna use Flygon. Which is fine, but a pretty big let-down for a pokemon that I really feel deserves the spotlight way more often it gets.
During my Silver Playthrough I couldn't pass up the opportunity to use the Red Gyarados you could find at the Lake of Rage. I don't know what I was expecting, but Gyarados really underperformed.
For one, its movepool really sucked. You catch it with Leer, Bite, Dragon Rage, and Thrash. The former is situational, the middle 2 are mediocre at this point in the game, so you're left with a 90 BP Normal Move as your main Attack. 125 Base Attack is great, but Gyarados seriously didn't do as much damage as it looked like it would.
And it's level up moveset is trash as well. Twister is terrible, Rain Dance isn't practical in an in-game playthrough, and Hyper Beam leaves Gyarados vunerable more often than not. Now, it does get Hydro Pump, and I thought it would certainly fix Gyarados' power issue, until I realized Gyarados has a grand total of 60 Base Special Attack. Someone at Game Freak must've really hated it, because it had 100 Special in Gen 1, but all that Special went to its Special Defense. As a result even the 120 BP STAB Move often didn't 2HKO because of its low power and poor accuracy. And while Flying-Type Moves are Physical this Gen, the only Flying Move Gyarados got was HP Flying, which needless to say left Gyarados with no real STAB.
And to make matters even worse, it's TM Learnset is also pretty mediocre. Every Physical TM it learns is either Normal-Type or Hidden Power, and only Return was really any better than Thrash. The bizzare part is that it actually got a decent assortment of good Special Moves, such as Fire Blast, Blizzard or Thunder, accuracy nonwhistanding. However, with that crappy Special Attack and the difficulty in getting those TMs, teaching Gyarados those moves was not worth the trouble.
Combine that with how slow Gyarados leveled up, and the Pokemon really disappointed me. Its a shame, as aside from the odd Electric-Type Trainer Gyarados didn't MU that badly against the rest of the game. But for such a cool design it hit like a wet paper towel.
During my Silver Playthrough I couldn't pass up the opportunity to use the Red Gyarados you could find at the Lake of Rage. I don't know what I was expecting, but Gyarados really underperformed.
For one, its movepool really sucked. You catch it with Leer, Bite, Dragon Rage, and Thrash. The former is situational, the middle 2 are mediocre at this point in the game, so you're left with a 90 BP Normal Move as your main Attack. 125 Base Attack is great, but Gyarados seriously didn't do as much damage as it looked like it would.
And it's level up moveset is trash as well. Twister is terrible, Rain Dance isn't practical in an in-game playthrough, and Hyper Beam leaves Gyarados vunerable more often than not. Now, it does get Hydro Pump, and I thought it would certainly fix Gyarados' power issue, until I realized Gyarados has a grand total of 60 Base Special Attack. Someone at Game Freak must've really hated it, because it had 100 Special in Gen 1, but all that Special went to its Special Defense. As a result even the 120 BP STAB Move often didn't 2HKO because of its low power and poor accuracy. And while Flying-Type Moves are Physical this Gen, the only Flying Move Gyarados got was HP Flying, which needless to say left Gyarados with no real STAB.
And to make matters even worse, it's TM Learnset is also pretty mediocre. Every Physical TM it learns is either Normal-Type or Hidden Power, and only Return was really any better than Thrash. The bizzare part is that it actually got a decent assortment of good Special Moves, such as Fire Blast, Blizzard or Thunder, accuracy nonwhistanding. However, with that crappy Special Attack and the difficulty in getting those TMs, teaching Gyarados those moves was not worth the trouble.
Combine that with how slow Gyarados leveled up, and the Pokemon really disappointed me. Its a shame, as aside from the odd Electric-Type Trainer Gyarados didn't MU that badly against the rest of the game. But for such a cool design it hit like a wet paper towel.
If I recall correctly the ONLY non-Normal non-Hidden Power physical moves it could learn in Gen II, even if you included Gen I-exclusive moves, were Rock Smash, which was 20 power back then so even more useless than it is in newer games, and Reversal, which was event-exclusive and pretty much unobtainable for any modern-day playthroughs without cheating. It didn't get Earthquake until Ruby and Sapphire.
Gen II was pretty much Gyarados' lowest point battle-wise
Damn Gyarados gotta leave some more physical coverage for the rest of us. And to be honest it's surpising that it was nerfed, seeing as it wasn't all that good in Gen 1 to begin with.
Also seeing as in Gen 3 it still lacked good STAB, I would argue that it really only became decent for an in-game playthrough during Gen 4, which is a real shame.
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There's a lot of generations, including Gen II, where Gyarados's best use is as an HM Slave. I've even used it in the past as HM Slave+team member, where I have a rotating team of 7-8 mons, all at the same level, one of which is a Gyarados with Strength/Surf/2 other HM moves/maybe Intimidate and just relied on it as an answer to ground/rock/fire types and also a way of solving the HM issue, because STAB Surf off of base 60 SPA is still enough to wipe most of the stuff you need wiped in the mid game before they give you Waterfall.
If you told me you thought Wobbuffet was a Gen 3 Pokemon, I would believe you, and probably even corroborate your opinion. Why? Because it may as well not exist in GSC. In fact, it is such a laughably pathetic Pokemon that it essentially doesn't exist. Now as many know, Wobbuffet is infamous for being the first non-Legendary Pokemon to be banned from an OU tier in ADV. This was because of Shadow Tag. So, what happens when you use Wobbuffet in GSC?
Well, nothing. GSC doesn't have abilities, so you can just keep switching against it and it can't do anything. It doesn't have Mean Look, in fact it just gets 5 moves: Counter, Destiny Bond, Mimic (NYPC event iirc?), Mirror Coat, and Safeguard. It has no way to punish you just switching constantly until it runs out of PP and dies. The only way to make any use of this thing is to either Mimic something like Night Shade or Baton Pass a Mean Look to replicate its later glory days.
If anybody tells you anything other than GSC Wobbuffet is the worst Pokemon of all time, do not believe them. There is not a single Pokemon that is more criminally flawed than this one. To be countered by the most basic of mechanics is just...not good.
So here's me PP stalling two Wobbuffets in a row in Stadium 2, fresh from my latest stream. Indeed, I held up my viewers for an hour just to show my sick, twisted sense of humour as the AI helplessly flails around trying to get anything going. Enjoy at your own risk.
DPPT Pachirisu.
Pachirisu might have that championship years back going for it but in-game it’s a meme. 45 base offenses are seriously pathetic, and nothing, NOTHING from its slightly interesting movepool of Charm, Light Screen, Super Fang, and U-Turn can change the fact you will never do traditional damage worth mattering with this Mon beyond the third gym. I distinctly remember not being able to 2HKO a Buneary lategame.
Pachirisu might have that championship years back going for it but in-game it’s a meme. 45 base offenses are seriously pathetic, and nothing, NOTHING from its slightly interesting movepool of Charm, Light Screen, Super Fang, and U-Turn can change the fact you will never do traditional damage worth mattering with this Mon beyond the third gym. I distinctly remember not being able to 2HKO a Buneary lategame.
So bad even DP Volkner was like "Nah I'll pass. I'm gonna go with a random Ambipom and Octillery instead."
it was a meme in the championship to be fair, because it was known to be so bad but being used to such a strong degree.
It was a little bit more than just to meme.
It then became a meme afterwards after it worked shockingly well.
BTW, Se Jun Park looks to be enjoying the meme he started with the little electric squirrel:
My point is everyone knows its a garbage Pokemon, which made the fact someone used it (successfully) all the more impressive.
Many of you probably know me as a pretty big fan of the Totodile family, and while that's always been true, I used to also be a fan of the Cyndaquil family back in the early 2010s when I was still becoming familiar with the Pokémon brand. Like several other Johto fans, I've used Cyndaquil a few times myself, and while my rankings for the Johto starters have changed significantly over the past few years, I have one opinion that has yet to change since the very beginning.
I think Typhlosion is an extremely overrated starter choice in this region.
Historically, the mindset newer Johto players tend to have is something along the lines of "Fire-Types good, Grass-Types bad", with Water just kind of off doing its own thing like usual. As a result of this, people can be very quick to call Cyndaquil the best Starter for a Johto region playthrough- and in my opinion, a little too fast. Let's get Typhlosion's good qualities in both the originals and the remakes out of the way first. Fire-Type STAB tends to at least be better in Johto than it was in the Kanto-based games based off of things like the Gym types. It also has pretty solid base stats across the board that can be utilized in different ways than when Charmander tries to do so and vice versa. Finally, Typhlosion is one of two available Fire-Types in the main GSC campaign to get access to ThunderPunch for those pesky Water-Types, the other one being the much less powerful but still viable Magmar.
Unforrtunately, that's where the positives end in my eyes. There's just as many negatives that I feel like newer players gloss over far too often. As I'm sure we all know, Johto's controversial level curve makes grinding tedious. Out of the three starters, Cyndaquil's family suffers from this the most, with evolution level curves of 16/32 and 18/30 both being more optimal than 14/36. In addition to this, the Fire-Type still loses to some of Johto's hardest battles that Grass and Water perform overall better in. As if that wasn't enough, Typhlosion was overall nerfed in the transition to Gen 4, further hurting its performance in the remakes. Relative to the other starter options, Cyndaquil also takes the longest to gain access to its best STAB options and only gets access to ThunderPunch as Typhlosion, unlike GSC staples such as Mareep (more specifically Flaaffy) and the Abra line to name a few.
I think Typhlosion is an extremely overrated starter choice in this region.
Historically, the mindset newer Johto players tend to have is something along the lines of "Fire-Types good, Grass-Types bad", with Water just kind of off doing its own thing like usual. As a result of this, people can be very quick to call Cyndaquil the best Starter for a Johto region playthrough- and in my opinion, a little too fast. Let's get Typhlosion's good qualities in both the originals and the remakes out of the way first. Fire-Type STAB tends to at least be better in Johto than it was in the Kanto-based games based off of things like the Gym types. It also has pretty solid base stats across the board that can be utilized in different ways than when Charmander tries to do so and vice versa. Finally, Typhlosion is one of two available Fire-Types in the main GSC campaign to get access to ThunderPunch for those pesky Water-Types, the other one being the much less powerful but still viable Magmar.
Unforrtunately, that's where the positives end in my eyes. There's just as many negatives that I feel like newer players gloss over far too often. As I'm sure we all know, Johto's controversial level curve makes grinding tedious. Out of the three starters, Cyndaquil's family suffers from this the most, with evolution level curves of 16/32 and 18/30 both being more optimal than 14/36. In addition to this, the Fire-Type still loses to some of Johto's hardest battles that Grass and Water perform overall better in. As if that wasn't enough, Typhlosion was overall nerfed in the transition to Gen 4, further hurting its performance in the remakes. Relative to the other starter options, Cyndaquil also takes the longest to gain access to its best STAB options and only gets access to ThunderPunch as Typhlosion, unlike GSC staples such as Mareep (more specifically Flaaffy) and the Abra line to name a few.
actually typhlosion is awesome. hope this helps 
I find that Typhlosion late game struggles are due to lack of coverage and being walled by Clair and Lance, two of the toughest fights already. Early game, however, is an easy ride between gaining easy experience and Spa EVs in Sprout Tower, resisting Bugsy's U-Turn, and Whitney's Miltank being countered by Muscle the Machop.
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Cyndaquil’s main issues stem from weak STAB until you are basically fully evolved, discounting the earlygame.
In GSC, unlike Croconaw, Quilava doesn’t get the punches until evolving into Typhlosion. And when it gets those punches, lol Clair and Lance, the hardest battles in the game.
In HGSS, Quilava is more or less forced to TM Fire Blast for like 4-5 gyms if you don’t want it to die quick with its natural options. It works for bosses, yes, but it’s still a risky attack as Quilava has middling defenses. I mean sure Specs Lava Plume Typhlosion is pretty good for the Elite Four, but not doing much for Clair or Lance again negates this. Charcoal Fire Blasting Whitney’s Miltank IIRC comes close to if not outright killing it, I think?
Heck, even MEGANIUM can abuse Specs Petal Dance to put the hurt on Chuck, Pryce, and likely dent Jasmine. It’s still Meganium and is still an lol Johto Grass type, but it’s also not got a 15% chance of screwing you over that Fire Blast does. Meganium can also hold its own against Clair’s Kingdra too, even if it also kind of flops to Lance (though almost EVERYTHING flops to Lance outside of obscure stuff like Lapras).
In GSC, unlike Croconaw, Quilava doesn’t get the punches until evolving into Typhlosion. And when it gets those punches, lol Clair and Lance, the hardest battles in the game.
In HGSS, Quilava is more or less forced to TM Fire Blast for like 4-5 gyms if you don’t want it to die quick with its natural options. It works for bosses, yes, but it’s still a risky attack as Quilava has middling defenses. I mean sure Specs Lava Plume Typhlosion is pretty good for the Elite Four, but not doing much for Clair or Lance again negates this. Charcoal Fire Blasting Whitney’s Miltank IIRC comes close to if not outright killing it, I think?
Heck, even MEGANIUM can abuse Specs Petal Dance to put the hurt on Chuck, Pryce, and likely dent Jasmine. It’s still Meganium and is still an lol Johto Grass type, but it’s also not got a 15% chance of screwing you over that Fire Blast does. Meganium can also hold its own against Clair’s Kingdra too, even if it also kind of flops to Lance (though almost EVERYTHING flops to Lance outside of obscure stuff like Lapras).
small thing: in HGSS, Typhlosion learns Flamethrower at level 42, just in time for the E4, which improves its end-game significantly
In BDSP, I found Pachirisu to be one of the most useful Pokemon to use in the game, albiet not in the traditional sense. There were many points during the playthrough where my main team was overleveled, such as between the sixth and seventh gym, so I would use a team of 5 Pachirisu + Gastrodon as my "backup" team for things like the game's side content + certain segments of the game. Its pickup ability was incredibly useful to get items like the Dawn Stone I needed to evolve my Kirlia into Gallade (which was actually pretty OP since I got it right after the second gym + mine had an attack boosting nature and Knock Off). Its access to Nuzzle + Super Fang also made it pretty great when I was catching a bunch of Bronzor to get a Metal Coat to evolve my Scyther into Scizor, as you can't get the Metal Coat normally otherwise.
Speaking of BDSP, one Pokemon I found kind of underwhelming was Blissey. I believe I ran a set of Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Calm Mind, and Softboiled (Maybe I ran Life Dew or Minimize earlier but IDK). For most of the game, it was kind of useless since it took too long to set up and most bosses had ways of exploiting its low Defense. It wasn't bad persay, but other Pokemon like Gallade and Scyther did better for most of the game. However, ironically enough, it probably was the most useful Pokemon for Cynthia since only her Garchomp could hit Blissey with Physical moves, which she is programmed to send out last. Spiritomb did have Sucker Punch, but I just exploited this to set up 6 Calm Minds and sweep her team. Her Milotic did survive a +6 Thunderbolt and tried landing a Mirror Coat, but Blissey was able to avoid that thanks to Affection. Blissey did get OHKO'd by Garchomp though, which then proceeded to almost reverse sweep my team.
I saw that the Johto starters were being discussed here. Allow me to contribute.
The Chikorita line in Crystal. Nowadays, most people know how bad Chikorita is in the Johto games. But I did not know that when I first played through Crystal 20 years ago. I learned it the hard way.
I had picked Totodile in Silver and it had been amazing. I don't remember why I picked Chikorita over Cyndaquil in Crystal, but for whatever reason, I did. I expected Chikorita to be at least somewhat decent, but it was terrible. I remember that I lost against Falkner when I tried to beat him with a level 15 Chikorita, but I reset and grinded a little so it evolved into Bayleef before I went back for a second attempt, which I won. Sadly, things didn't get better from here. Bayleef/Meganium struggled in almost every single important battle. And in several unimportant battles too. I also remember that when I was trying to catch Lugia, I let Meganium use Razor Leaf to slowly whittle down its HP, which was oddly quite efficient (Lugia then used Recover which forced me to do it all over again, though).
However, there was one battle where Chikorita actually was great. And it was against Whitney out of all trainers. I remember that when I faced her, I had an overleveled Bayleef which 2HKO'd both her Clefairy and Miltank with Razor Leaf. That is the only battle I can remember where the Chikorita line was actually great.
I think one big issue lies within its movepool, it relies on Razor Leaf and Body Slam for damage, most other moves it gets outside of TMs are support moves which aren't super great if you want to play through the game efficiently. In comparison, the Totodile line gets Surf, Slash, Bite and Ice Punch, which is excellent. The Cyndaquil line might not have the best movepool in the world but I remember that it worked fine when I used it in both G/S/C and HG/SS. Fire is a pretty good offensive type in Johto, which really can't be said for Grass.
Overall, Chikorita was the worst starter I have ever used, despite the fact that it was overleveled for a large chunk of the game. Because of the bad experiences I had with it in Crystal, it is my least favorite out of all starters that exist. I did not pick it in any of my playthroughs of HG/SS, and I will never use it for an in-game playthrough again.
The Chikorita line in Crystal. Nowadays, most people know how bad Chikorita is in the Johto games. But I did not know that when I first played through Crystal 20 years ago. I learned it the hard way.
I had picked Totodile in Silver and it had been amazing. I don't remember why I picked Chikorita over Cyndaquil in Crystal, but for whatever reason, I did. I expected Chikorita to be at least somewhat decent, but it was terrible. I remember that I lost against Falkner when I tried to beat him with a level 15 Chikorita, but I reset and grinded a little so it evolved into Bayleef before I went back for a second attempt, which I won. Sadly, things didn't get better from here. Bayleef/Meganium struggled in almost every single important battle. And in several unimportant battles too. I also remember that when I was trying to catch Lugia, I let Meganium use Razor Leaf to slowly whittle down its HP, which was oddly quite efficient (Lugia then used Recover which forced me to do it all over again, though).
However, there was one battle where Chikorita actually was great. And it was against Whitney out of all trainers. I remember that when I faced her, I had an overleveled Bayleef which 2HKO'd both her Clefairy and Miltank with Razor Leaf. That is the only battle I can remember where the Chikorita line was actually great.
I think one big issue lies within its movepool, it relies on Razor Leaf and Body Slam for damage, most other moves it gets outside of TMs are support moves which aren't super great if you want to play through the game efficiently. In comparison, the Totodile line gets Surf, Slash, Bite and Ice Punch, which is excellent. The Cyndaquil line might not have the best movepool in the world but I remember that it worked fine when I used it in both G/S/C and HG/SS. Fire is a pretty good offensive type in Johto, which really can't be said for Grass.
Overall, Chikorita was the worst starter I have ever used, despite the fact that it was overleveled for a large chunk of the game. Because of the bad experiences I had with it in Crystal, it is my least favorite out of all starters that exist. I did not pick it in any of my playthroughs of HG/SS, and I will never use it for an in-game playthrough again.
Yeah I was aware it got Flamethrower I think. It’s been a while since I used it. Nice it gets it in time though!
I would like to reiterate that Cyndaquil was never a truly “bad” starter choice; it’s just that the family tends to fall flat in two very important areas. For one, opportunity cost: having Typhlosion as your team’s Fire-Type is nice, but not as impactful as the difference between, say, Meganium and Jumpluff, for example. The second thing I’d like to bring up is consistency. One of the reasons I like Totodile so much more than Cyndaquil is because Cyndaquil’s matchup spread is very polarized throughout the game, while Totodile lacks many of those winning matchups but makes up for it with its much lower amount of losing matchups compared to Grass and Fire-Types. Being able to play at least even with the hardest battles in the game means a lot more to me than being able to beat some easy trainers and lose almost all of the hard ones. Realistically, the battles Typhlosion wins (even after it gets Flamethrower) aren’t anything other Pokémon can’t also do well in, while the same can’t be said for some of Chikorita and Cyndaquil’s losses.
Raichu got hit hard by the movepool changes in Legends. It's only options for coverage now are Play Rough and Iron Tail (which are serviceable but inaccurate), Rock Smash (which is garbage), and a bunch of Normal moves. No Surf, no Grass Knot, not even a decent Fighting move. This made the Path of Solitude boss (a fucking Steelix) incredibly frustrating for me since I couldn't paralyze it and my only way of damaging it was Rock Smash. It didn't stop me from using my Alpha Raichu on my main team, but it was still a bit disheartening.
Yeah, honestly this game the Electric-Type absolutely filthy with some of the nerfs, especially on the Special side. Calling Legends' balance changes buffs or nerfs is hard to say with only one game so far existing in this style and said game not exactly being multiplayer-based... but as far as in-game changes go... good heavens, this type is horrible. Electric-Types only get one winning matchup across all of Hisui, that being to the mini-boss Hisuian Braviary, while doing at least below average, if not outright losing to several other "important battles", losing against three of the five Nobles if you count type coverage while also losing to Dialga (Palkia is slightly easier but still not guaranteed by any means) and only beating one of Volo's
Well, Raichu, Jolteon and Pachirisu got fucked by the movepool cuts, and Magnezone has kinda always had a shit movepool. The rest though?
- Luxray is found early on and gets the elemental fangs early on, providing valuable physical coverage. It also gets Bite and Crunch by level-up. Electric/Ice/Dark hits everything for at least neutral. Snarl, Thunder Wave and Baby-doll eyes are all good utility moves as well.
- Hisuian Electrode is found later in the game, but has great STAB coverage in Electric/Grass. It gets Ice Ball through the move shop as well, which while it is physical, it does provide coverage for opposing Grass-types. Electric/Grass/Ice hits everything bar Magnezone and Heat Rotom.
- Speaking of Rotom, its form-changing gimmick gives it a pretty insane special movepool with fantastic options for STAB coverage. Yes, Blizzard and Hydro Pump are iffy with their accuracy and Overheat and Leaf Storm lower your attack after you use them, but it barely matters when using them in Strong Style turns them into freaking nukes. Also Shadow Ball.
- Electivire gets the Elemental Punches, Rock Slide and Bulldoze. A set of Wild Charge/Ice Punch/Bulldoze/filler hits everything in the game for at least neutral damage, and Bulldoze's added effect of lowering Action Speed provides some extra utility.
- Finally, Thundurus doesn't have impressive coverage but it does have Bulk Up, which is absolutely broken in Legends.