Even as someone who is attracted to the bespoke awfulness of a lot of older games, I agree with this. Older video games were held back by both the technical limitations of old systems and the trappings of a new, immature medium. We can acknowledge their contributions to the development of the medium (and praise the ones that still hold up!) while also recognizing that it's not merely a lack of hard-nosed, old-school gamer toughness that leads people to criticize them today.
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Post your searing hot takes
- Thread starter Yung Dramps
- Start date
I actually really like Kikimora... I genuinely have no clue why she's so hated
I genuinenly kinda hate the shonen genre
95% of the ones that manage to get an anime adaption (which is like probably 5% or less of the total shonen manga that release) either start off bad from the get go or (and that's MUCH worse) start out good, even great, and turn absolute shit after a while. Growing larger casts and not knowing what to do with them, putting spectacle over narrative and just spoiling about a third into the run and neglecting any world building
My Hero Academia and Jujutsu Kaisen started out so promising and then they just went on monumental downfalls that killed off any potential at some point
I just can't get myself swept into any new series because I just know that it will spoil sooner or later. I just know that it will be the talk of the town for 2-3 years and then die off with a dissapointing and insulting ending.
Maybe it's because you can't expect people to just singlehandedly produce 20 pages every week with a compelling storyline, and that you especially can't expect them to do this for years on end. If publishers were more lenient with deadlines and it would become more normalized to have story and art seperated between people, things could improve. Like I genuinenly think that the main reason stories like Vinland Saga are so good is because they are on a monthly instead of a weekly release shedudle and the author is allowed to have a few weeks of break between arcs to research and construct the narrative
95% of the ones that manage to get an anime adaption (which is like probably 5% or less of the total shonen manga that release) either start off bad from the get go or (and that's MUCH worse) start out good, even great, and turn absolute shit after a while. Growing larger casts and not knowing what to do with them, putting spectacle over narrative and just spoiling about a third into the run and neglecting any world building
My Hero Academia and Jujutsu Kaisen started out so promising and then they just went on monumental downfalls that killed off any potential at some point
I just can't get myself swept into any new series because I just know that it will spoil sooner or later. I just know that it will be the talk of the town for 2-3 years and then die off with a dissapointing and insulting ending.
Maybe it's because you can't expect people to just singlehandedly produce 20 pages every week with a compelling storyline, and that you especially can't expect them to do this for years on end. If publishers were more lenient with deadlines and it would become more normalized to have story and art seperated between people, things could improve. Like I genuinenly think that the main reason stories like Vinland Saga are so good is because they are on a monthly instead of a weekly release shedudle and the author is allowed to have a few weeks of break between arcs to research and construct the narrative
Consider: Rolling up those things is really hard.
IVs should just be done away with entirely.
tbf in gen 9 they're pretty easy to max out on any pokemon and you dont have to worry about foul play or whatever since the distribution for the move got axed. The only issue that comes out of the new system is getting 0 speed IVs for trick room teams (but respectfully if you're playing trick room you deserve to suffer through that grind)
ant is also right, the IV system adds a little bit of difference to a singleplayer playthrough that really helps with immersion
I think upgrading IVs should be even cheaper. It can be a real pain to get Bottle Caps.
IVs, EVs, and Natures should be better explained to the player in-game, really (not holding-hands-like explanation, but just enough so that they get a basic idea of what they do)
feels like it would do away with a lot of the frustration/dislike surrounding them (of course nothing sucks more than getting your favorite mon... only for its IVs to suck ass, and more in-game explanation wouldn't do away with that)
feels like it would do away with a lot of the frustration/dislike surrounding them (of course nothing sucks more than getting your favorite mon... only for its IVs to suck ass, and more in-game explanation wouldn't do away with that)
I don't agree w that at all
I think it's the opposite way around, this was a mechanic that was best when it wasn't explained, and then the competitive scene forced it to be more known
I am 100% in favor of RNG mechanics that make Pokemon different to each other for singleplayer Pokemon. I also liked back when I had no clue on why things were except maybe some of Natures.
I think it's the opposite way around, this was a mechanic that was best when it wasn't explained, and then the competitive scene forced it to be more known
I am 100% in favor of RNG mechanics that make Pokemon different to each other for singleplayer Pokemon. I also liked back when I had no clue on why things were except maybe some of Natures.
what makes EVs/IVs specifically better without an explanation
Honestly, the D&D comparison reads as a reason to dump the random factors on base stats. My understanding is that deterministic methods (point buy, standard arrays, multiple layers of fixed modifiers) are standard for large-scale organized play where you're meeting a new group every time (i.e. the closest to the online socialization Pokemon wants to achieve). Even when rolling for stats, you basically always have the ability to assign the results as you see fit (because having a low primary stat for what you want to be playing can be extremely crippling).
I don't want to be able to control all of these things. Because I don't view something like this as I, the player, the sole player of this game who has ultimate control. Not even just for a DND comparison but IMO RPGs are at their best when you aren't the omnipresent force in the world the game curves around.
Why should every Pokemon perform the same at base? That doesn't make any sense, and it makes the Pokemon I catch less individualized.
This isn't really that hard of a concept. My Pikachu and your Pikachu should be different. It's cooler that way. That's the hot take.
Instead of being stats that you and I both know that creates numerical differences, someone who doesn't know it just says "My Pikachu is different than this Pikachu because it's two different Pikachu"
it's pretty simple. It adds to the roleplaying aspect of the game. You shouldn't understand everything about how a game works unless you want to ruin a lot of the magic behind the systems, and that's still true with Pokemon.
I think Pokemon reconciles this decently by only telling the player more specific things about these mechanics later when they get more important. For instance, the stats judge is postgame, because IVs (or potential) aren't necessary for casual play but get more important if you aim to push Pokemon to higher limits.
Casual Pokemon may be magical, but going competitive requires science, and science needs tools.
Casual Pokemon may be magical, but going competitive requires science, and science needs tools.
Okay, doesn't need to damage the singleplayer. Removing stuff like IVs does that.
I broadly agree, though I wish that the difference wasn't one Pikachu being objectively better than the other as often. I've noticed terrible IVs during casual play on occasion, and it just feels like shit in that case.
This general discussion here made me think of what IVs do in terms of game design.
I wrote the above section, but I realized it doesn't prove that IVs are inherently a bad thing for casual players. It's just a weird quirk from the beginning.
My main issue with IVs are that you don't learn about it until you want to play Pokemon in a stronger setting, whether it's the Battle Facilities or VGC. At that point, you don't want random differences that you cannot easily see to affect your performance. I think that's the main issue most people have with IVs. It's also right next to a better system: EVs can be customized and more importantly, has a limited amount total that requires you to makes decisions on how to allocate it.
I can see an upside of IVs, like making trainer fights easier/harder. If there was an easier way to customize IVs at some point, then that would be fine. Personally though, I would remove it because it's a system that brings so much pain for so little benefit.
The main thing is, if IVs aren't or shouldn't be explained to casual players, they won't notice the difference of the two Pikachus based on IVs.
I have played the Pokemon games for a long time, but I only learned and became conscious of IVs from Pokemon Showdown. Even in my latest two playthroughs of Pearl and Ultra Moon, I completely forgot that IVs were a thing.
The only way casual players could notice that IVs are doing something are in the Battle Facilities / Link Battles, with Pokemons at the same level. But they are going to think "I have to get better moves on Pikachu" or "I need a stronger Pokemon" long before they worry about the stats.
That brings me to the next point: IVs are not the only way your Pikachus can be different. Your Level, Moves, and Ability are substantially more visible and interesting differences. You would rather compare differences on cool effects and how much you trained your Pokemon, rather than stats from random chance.
I have played the Pokemon games for a long time, but I only learned and became conscious of IVs from Pokemon Showdown. Even in my latest two playthroughs of Pearl and Ultra Moon, I completely forgot that IVs were a thing.
The only way casual players could notice that IVs are doing something are in the Battle Facilities / Link Battles, with Pokemons at the same level. But they are going to think "I have to get better moves on Pikachu" or "I need a stronger Pokemon" long before they worry about the stats.
That brings me to the next point: IVs are not the only way your Pikachus can be different. Your Level, Moves, and Ability are substantially more visible and interesting differences. You would rather compare differences on cool effects and how much you trained your Pokemon, rather than stats from random chance.
I wrote the above section, but I realized it doesn't prove that IVs are inherently a bad thing for casual players. It's just a weird quirk from the beginning.
My main issue with IVs are that you don't learn about it until you want to play Pokemon in a stronger setting, whether it's the Battle Facilities or VGC. At that point, you don't want random differences that you cannot easily see to affect your performance. I think that's the main issue most people have with IVs. It's also right next to a better system: EVs can be customized and more importantly, has a limited amount total that requires you to makes decisions on how to allocate it.
I can see an upside of IVs, like making trainer fights easier/harder. If there was an easier way to customize IVs at some point, then that would be fine. Personally though, I would remove it because it's a system that brings so much pain for so little benefit.
This doesn't understand any of the point of it. You're not supposed to feel the difference you're supposed to see the difference if you look at stats.
It's also not just your friend's Pikachu, it's catching two Pikachu in the wild in a row and seeing how they are different even at the same level, that adds individuality. Which movesets and shit doesn't really change much.
Plus, while we're talking about IVs we gotta remember this really started before Natures/Abilities, etc. It also can as you say, help with making trainer Pokemon feel better to fight in a meaningful way.
I think that's fine. I don't think IVs should get casual players to get out there and catch more Pikachu to try to find one they like, I think it should be there to answer the questions of "Why is my Pikachu different from this one (at the same level)" and other little quirks with the roleplaying experience.
I'ma be blunt: I don't care about the "pain" it brings to competitive because that doesn't impact 99.99% of players, including the Battle Factory or other equivalents. If you are a competitive player you have the knowledge to get Pokemon at higher IVs, and an even hotter take I can give on this thread is that there should be some grind behind getting optimized Pokemon in the mainseries games.
Yeah I dunno maybe I "play Pokemon wrong" or whatever but there's basically never been a time where IVs actually made any difference at all to me in a playthrough. I don't catch a bunch of the same Pokemon and pick the best one out (isn't that like antithetical to the 'core message' of the series? I don't watch the anime but I thought one of the rival dudes gets clowned on for doing exactly that lol) and I don't really care if my Pokemon has 247 Attack or 236 or whatever. These games aren't remotely hard and for in-game playthroughs worrying about IVs at all is honestly overthinking them. I think IVs, even despite the (honestly pretty marginal) efforts made to make maxing them easier, are still a barrier to entry to competitive play that serves little to no purpose in single-player gameplay and I have yet to hear a convincing argument otherwise.
As for the RPing side of it, first of all I think you dramatically overestimate how many players actually get that immersed into these games, but it's not invalid to. I think things like personality traits and natures (which should be cosmetic only by the way and not affect stats at all) add individuality to Pokemon in a far better way than IVs without negatively affecting gameplay, at least in the case of personality traits (and again, natures should be made cosmetic only to match). They certainly add a lot more immersion than one Pokemon having slightly higher numbers next to its name than the other.
As for the RPing side of it, first of all I think you dramatically overestimate how many players actually get that immersed into these games, but it's not invalid to. I think things like personality traits and natures (which should be cosmetic only by the way and not affect stats at all) add individuality to Pokemon in a far better way than IVs without negatively affecting gameplay, at least in the case of personality traits (and again, natures should be made cosmetic only to match). They certainly add a lot more immersion than one Pokemon having slightly higher numbers next to its name than the other.
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speaking of IVs, hidden power being based off of them is and will always be cringe especially when they're not being introduced to a player outside of a competitive environment
really I will forever maintain that any trait that affects stats or has an impact on gameplay, no matter how small, should be adequately explained to the player, not in a holding-hands sort of way, but enough so that they can grasp the basics and a little bit of the specifics, this would solve a lot of these sorts of debates surrounding them even if it doesn't solve their inherent flaws
really I will forever maintain that any trait that affects stats or has an impact on gameplay, no matter how small, should be adequately explained to the player, not in a holding-hands sort of way, but enough so that they can grasp the basics and a little bit of the specifics, this would solve a lot of these sorts of debates surrounding them even if it doesn't solve their inherent flaws
My own opinion on IVs, EVs, and Natures is that I’m okay with IVs and Natures but not okay with EVs. I get the idea that they’re all in place to help “differentiate” Pokémon from each other, but from a gameplay perspective I prefer how the first two generations handled these for a couple reasons. For one, I greatly prefer GSC Shiny mechanics not only because of the Game Boy Color’s… well, color mechanics, but also because adding in a way for Shiny Pokémon to be more likely to have Shiny offspring when breeding just makes sense from an in-universe perspective. My other major gripe is that, while Natures are both a buff and a nerf, the implementation of an EV limit was, for all intents and purposes, an indirect nerf to all Pokémon that in a competitive setting tends to be biased around offensive threats that can team up to overwhelm their now-weakened bulky checks that preferred stat experience over EVs. There’s not exactly a lot of “skill” in making 252/252/4 EV spreads, too, if that makes sense.
I don't agree with this at all, and I'm scratching my head to figure out how picking the most optimal of like 6 different natures that ever get used is more 'skilful' than making EV spreads. 252/252/4 EV spreads are actually very rarely optimal, especially as you get into higher ladder play or formats like draft leagues and tournaments. There's certainly a lot more skill expression in crafting optimized EV spreads for given formats than there is picking natures, and competitive play is almost always done with perfect IVs regardless. Trick Room teams won't get to minmax quite so hard (does this even really matter? How often do you actually underspeed something with 0 Speed IVs that you wouldn't with 31?) and I guess STAB Foul Play has a chance to OHKO Starmie now. Hardly significant changes to the metagame.
Honestly the "shiny pokemon more likely to produce shiny offspring" should still exist but it shouldn't be based off of IVs; I feel like it was only that way because of older gen mechanics and shit