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If anything i'd take this even further. I think the DS era is the worst era of Pokemon. DP has a laughable story, bad characters, terrible gamespeed, and a surprisingly unimpressive set of new mons - an annoying number of them being postgame only iirc. Platinum fixes some of this but not all of it. HGSS preserved all the flaws of GSC while replacing its distinctive spritework and music with generic equivalents. BW has an inch-deep plot and a dex full of filler, which retreads the basic-ness of earlier gens with less charm and creativity. A lot of the postgame content of all these games is not what it's cracked up to be, featuring dismal rewards, unimpressive luck bs, and lots of sitting around for loading and waiting. Their lore is often childish too.

These games bring some good stuff to the table - i don't despise them or anything, i think they're fine - but i think the fanbase's glazing for them is another Gen1 wave like you say.
 
I think the DS Era of games are the new Gen 1 in the sense that people are seeing it as the peak of the franchise and everything that came after as worse in comparison.
If you mean that their high status in online discussion now is driven by nostalgia, then I think you're partially correct. I think we're starting to see the 3DS games get the same treatment as the kids who were raised on those get on the Internet and start making posts/videos. That said, everyone thinks the main series games peaked somewhere, and I think the DS games are a good pick. They get off to a pretty brutal start with D/P, but by the end of the system's lifespan, it feels to me like they really master the hardware and use it to create some pretty great games. B2/W2 in particular benefited from them not having to make every fucking asset from scratch and being able to focus more on extra content, something more of these games should really take advantage of!
DPPt's Routes lacked variety. Like almost every Route had a Bidoof, Geodude, or Zubat (or their evos) in them, which got really annoying after a while.
This stuck out to me playing the remakes, yeah. Even ignoring the encounters for a second, it's all bland grass and caves for the most part, and it just gets to be aesthetically dull, especially in the middle portion of the game. On the whole, I feel like Sinnoh as a landscape is carried by Mt. Coronet.

On a related note: Did every fucking Galactic grunt in this game really need a Wurmple (or member of its line)? I swear, I thought that evolutionary line was native to Sinnoh for a while.
HGSS still has GSC's wonky level curve, in addition to some final evos being accessable IN THE POSTGAME.
Honestly, the inaccessibility of some of the new evolutions never bothered me that much. They've always felt like fun post-game rewards to me (sort of like the Pupitar line in Mt. Silver), but I can understand why people feel differently with the Johto Dex being as thin as it is.

The level curve is inexcusable, though. I cannot fathom why this wasn't tweaked so it would suck less to actually use a full team, but at least you get a level 50 legendary and can spam healing items through the worst parts of it.
BW doesn't have much postgame content (which is ironically the same criticism I see for the modern games).
I object less to the quantity of post-game content (getting to explore three new cities and see a bunch of landmarks is cool; I enjoy the story-related events like hunting down the Sages and getting a proper fight with Alder; and there's always the Battle Subway if you want a hardcore battling experience to throw yourself at forever) and more to the absurd level spike that all the post-game areas have. I feel like I have to grind ten levels before I do any of the new stuff, or I'll be fighting for my life the entire time. It sucks.
B2W2 fixes that, but I have a hard time following the story.
I don't really understand this, though. It's a pretty simple story; without N, Team Plasma have dropped the act and are just generically evil bad guys who want to conquer the world. Their plan isn't that complicated, either: They're just trying to get a big legendary to impose their will on the region with. All the supporting characters have pretty simple motivations for the most part, and the closest thing to a "twist" is N coming back to help you stop Ghetsis.
If anything i'd take this even further. I think the DS era is the worst era of Pokemon. DP has a laughable story, bad characters, terrible gamespeed, and a surprisingly unimpressive set of new mons - an annoying number of them being postgame only iirc. Platinum fixes some of this but not all of it. HGSS preserved all the flaws of GSC while replacing its distinctive spritework and music with generic equivalents. BW has an inch-deep plot and a dex full of filler, which retreads the basic-ness of earlier gens with less charm and creativity. A lot of the postgame content of all these games is not what it's cracked up to be, featuring dismal rewards, unimpressive luck bs, and lots of sitting around for loading and waiting. Their lore is often childish too.

These games bring some good stuff to the table - i don't despise them or anything, i think they're fine - but i think the fanbase's glazing for them is another Gen1 wave like you say.
This one, I just can't get behind. They have flaws, sure, and I only object to a few of these criticisms (I like the aesthetic of HG/SS a lot, and B/W's Dex is deeper than you give it credit for) but the worst era of the franchise? There's no universe where that isn't gen 1. That said, with the exception of B2/W2, I do agree that the DS-era post-games aren't all they're cracked up to be (unless you really like the Battle Frontier in gen 4, which means putting up with a lot of tedious bullshit in games that already run too slow — I don't know why they were so scared to push the hardware at first; it's not like these are super fast games where you need quick reflexes and precise execution, and any amount of slowdown can fuck your shit up).

I do have to wonder, though, if the glazing of the 3DS games that will surely be upon us soon will really match the glazing of the DS games. I know people who got into these games as adults, and they pretty much share the current consensus that gens 3-5 are the best, so I wonder how much the incoming nostalgia from gen 6/7 kids will be able to counteract that.
 
I do have to wonder, though, if the glazing of the 3DS games that will surely be upon us soon will really match the glazing of the DS games. I know people who got into these games as adults, and they pretty much share the current consensus that gens 3-5 are the best, so I wonder how much the incoming nostalgia from gen 6/7 kids will be able to counteract that.
you're just trying to summon him, aren't you?
 
but the worst era of the franchise? There's no universe where that isn't gen 1
I'm a real anti-fan of this line of thinking. I think it makes sense to evaluate games as products of their times instead of in isolation. Gen1 was a groundbreaking cultural phenomenon that introduced basically everything that fundamentally makes games like DPPT tick. To be clear, this isn't me saying "Oh Gen 1 is so great because without it, we wouldn't have other stuff." That's a nonsense reason to put Gen 1 up. I am opining things like:

- I would rather have got into Pokemon (games) at the time of Gen 1 vs Gen 4
- Gen 1 was very original and introduced much more of value to the franchise - Gen 4 introduced much less and was quite derivative (not just of Pokemon as a whole, but Gen 3 specifically)
- Gen 1 are more impressive game design achievements for their time than Gen 4 are for theirs
- Overall (not necessarily in each individual facet), Gen 1 is no worse than Gen 4 in the body of work that isn't chalked up to broad technical progress (sprite direction, mon creation / conceptualization, story/lore, composition, etc.)
 
I don't think theres any pokemon era that was better or worse overall. i like and dislike some of the games of each era and i think pokemon as a franchise has never truly "peaked". I love sumo but i think once you leave the spectrum of pokemon and compare them with other games they dont hold up that well (and i don't like to only compare pokemon to itself. its a silly thing to do when its got the same price and accessibility as all other games of their era). I think pokemon will only really peak or elevate itself when you can compare a pokemon game to other videogames without the "well, its pokemon" caveat
 
- I would rather have got into Pokemon (games) at the time of Gen 1 vs Gen 4
- Gen 1 was very original and introduced much more of value to the franchise - Gen 4 introduced much less and was quite derivative (not just of Pokemon as a whole, but Gen 3 specifically)
- Gen 1 are more impressive game design achievements for their time than Gen 4 are for theirs
- Overall (not necessarily in each individual facet), Gen 1 is no worse than Gen 4 in the body of work that isn't chalked up to broad technical progress (sprite direction, mon creation / conceptualization, story/lore, composition, etc.)
Not a ton of disagreement here; I wouldn't call gen 4 the peak of the series either. I think R/B/Y do deserve a lot of credit for everything genuinely new and inventive that they brought to the table (and even now, there's an elemental simplicity to them that I enjoy, a recognition of the simple pleasure of walking around and battling people that can sometimes get buried in the newer, more story-heavy and gimmick-full games), but I also reserve the right to reevaluate them in a contemporary context, and I don't think they hold up very well. There's a ton of bespoke problems that subsequent games ironed out; I'm honestly not a huge fan of the Kanto Dex and think its esteem is artificially inflated by it being the first; and while the relative simplicity of the first games can be enjoyable, it can also make them dull. They're GF's juvenilia. I respect them, but they're at the bottom of any tier list I would make.
 
I think RBY deserves more recognition by people for something that most people don't talk about: It's probably one of the only 6 year dev time games before the 2000s. Even just taking like 3 years put it at a massive leap in dev time compared to most games.

And that's actually reflective of just how passionate the team was about the project and how its scope was actually huge. People discount the fact that there are few Gameboy games with more than an hour of content.

Even a game like Super Mario Land 2, which I like a bit, is very simple and has little actual game time, and is significantly lower scope than an RPG with hundreds and hundreds of battle sprites, so many mechanics, skills, and being coded (and running well on) a Gameboy nonetheless.

People often talk about Gen 1 like it was coded like shit, but like do people realize what coding on Assembly is like LOL
 
the virgin "pokemon isn't that good actually" vs the chad
goodgames.png
 
Not sure if I posted this hotake yet but uh let's talk about the elephant in the room
and by this, I mean the BUG in the GAME (not that kind.) an actual bug
YANMEGA.
1741922314870.png

yes it said in the Pokedex and in the anime at one point that it indeed could easily transport an adult in flight.
BUT IT DOESN"T LEARN FLY WHY- LIKE LEGITMAITLY WHY-
(Thankfully I'm not the only one who agrees with this here's a post from 2013 agreeing with me.)
(I've probably brought this up before but I'm not sure if I did or didn't so I'll check it off my list of rage topics xd.)
 
I would need to actually play Emerald and HGSS to make sure of this but as time goes on I find myself creeping ever closer to the demented contrarian position of "BW2 is when Pokemon games actually started to get really good"

What terminal Emma brainrot and souring on Platinum does to a mf
 
gen 1 is fine in a vacuum but is missing so much qol that was introduced in later gens. no bag pockets, no registered items, you can't even see what your moves do

gen 4's major upgrade was that most pokemon were given significant learnset overhauls that kept them relevant throughout the whole game. compare gen 2 typhlosion to gen 4 typhlosion as an example

b2w2's story is a huge downgrade to bw's. it doesn't even give hugh's sister a name what the fuck??


also if gen 2 had gen 1 razor leaf then chikorita would be considered the best starter and it wouldn't even be close
 
b2w2's story is a huge downgrade to bw's. it doesn't even give hugh's sister a name what the fuck??
Okay, here's MY hot take. Hugh is an ass rival. Now, he HATES team plasma and will go out of his way to stop them and make sure they are punished. Not really bad right?



EXCEPT THAT'S ALL HE FUCKING DOES.
Like, besides the "general rival shit which every rival has to help out you instead for a few specific rivals that do the opposite", he has no other discernable characteristics other then that. Ig he has a sister???? Like, you can easily break his character into "I hate team plasma cause they took my sister's purrloin" with no other explanation needed. At the end of the game he does see the purrloin evolved into a liepard and can't really move, but at that point he has had no character growth for me to care about this interaction, its just way too late in the story (right before the ghetsis fight from what I remember) for me to change my opinion on him. Frankly, the team plasma hate gets on my nerves because he does not fucking change his stance. He doesn't do "oh, maybe some ex team plasma members aren't bad". Nope, even if multiple tell him they are sorry for what they have done to his face, he calls them all evil and storms out. Like, there is no fucking character growth.

I might replay B2W2 again just to see if I missed anything, but I genuinelly cannot get when people place him high on the rival's tier lists. He's not XY rival's bad, thank god, because he at least has something, but he ain't much better.
 
Okay, here's MY hot take. Hugh is an ass rival. Now, he HATES team plasma and will go out of his way to stop them and make sure they are punished. Not really bad right?



EXCEPT THAT'S ALL HE FUCKING DOES.
Like, besides the "general rival shit which every rival has to help out you instead for a few specific rivals that do the opposite", he has no other discernable characteristics other then that. Ig he has a sister???? Like, you can easily break his character into "I hate team plasma cause they took my sister's purrloin" with no other explanation needed. At the end of the game he does see the purrloin evolved into a liepard and can't really move, but at that point he has had no character growth for me to care about this interaction, its just way too late in the story (right before the ghetsis fight from what I remember) for me to change my opinion on him. Frankly, the team plasma hate gets on my nerves because he does not fucking change his stance. He doesn't do "oh, maybe some ex team plasma members aren't bad". Nope, even if multiple tell him they are sorry for what they have done to his face, he calls them all evil and storms out. Like, there is no fucking character growth.

I might replay B2W2 again just to see if I missed anything, but I genuinelly cannot get when people place him high on the rival's tier lists. He's not XY rival's bad, thank god, because he at least has something, but he ain't much better.
They put him high because he punches a grunt in the face, that's it.

His anger makes him fun, but his story is uninteresting and bland. He has a goal, and he succeeds, with no introspection on his motives or anything. Even despite his staredown with the Liepard, he still claims victory the next time you see him. Compared to BW's rivals, where Cheren starts with a concrete goal but drops it when he realizes he doesn't want it and Bianca starts with no goal but has self-discoveries that reveal one, Hugh's character is as flat as a pancake.
 
I would need to actually play Emerald and HGSS to make sure of this but as time goes on I find myself creeping ever closer to the demented contrarian position of "BW2 is when Pokemon games actually started to get really good"

What terminal Emma brainrot and souring on Platinum does to a mf
Why have you soured on Platinum? I know you might have mentioned it elsewhere but I'm curious.
 
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