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Gen 6 Primal Kyogre
- Thread starter yohoE
- Start date
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Has anyone considered a slow mixed set for Kyogre? This is pure theory but I'm thinking something like this. Feel free to shoot it down I haven't played Ubers in forever and haven't even tested this.
Kyogre@Blue Orb
Brave; 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Primordial Sea
Thunder
Aqua Tail
Avalanche
Earthquake
The idea is that thanks to rain and Kyogre's high base 150 Atk, it should be able to punish most switch-ins regardless. Using the physical set may help it get around some of its typical checks as well.
252+ Atk PKyogre Aqua Tail vs 252/252+ Groudon: (75.74% - 89.11%) 100% 2HKO SR+ Lefties
252+ Atk PKyogre Aqua Tail vs 164/0 Latias: (42.98% - 50.58%) 95.6% 2HKO SR
252+ Atk PKyogre Avalanche vs 164/0 Latias: (102.34% - 120.47%) 100% OHKO
252+ Atk PKyogre Earthquake vs 252/0 Dialga: (56.44% - 66.83%) 100% 2HKO SR+ Lefties
252+ Atk PKyogre Earthquake vs 252/0 PGroudon (44.6% - 51.9%) 100% 2HKO SR
252+ Atk PKyogre Avalanche vs 4/0 Delta Stream MegaRay: (90.91% - 107.39%) 41% OHKO
252+ Atk PKyogre Avalanche vs 248/8 Palkia: (41.25% - 48.83%) 10.78% 2HKO SR
252+ Atk PKyogre Avalanche vs 4/0 Palkia: (49.69% - 58.70%) 100% 2HKO SR
252+ Atk PKyogre Aqua Tail vs 248/8 Xerneas: (61.32 - 72.09) 100% 2HKO SR+ Lefties
252+ Atk PKyogre Aqua Tail vs 252/0 Arceus: (51.58 - 60.81) 100% 2HKO SR
252 SpA PKyogre Thunder vs 248/8 Yveltal: (74.29% - 87.47%) 92.31% OHKO SR
252 SpA PKyogre Thunder vs 252/4 Lugia: (55.29% - 65.38%) 100% 2HKO SR
Notably, this set can OHKO the likes of Soul Dew Latias and MegaRay as they switch in or if they feel that they can set up or Recover; 148 SpA Soul Dew Latias can never OHKO Primal Kyogre with Thunder or Grass Knot so staying in for Avalanche may end in your favor. Aqua Tail is necessary for the 2HKO on Latias if not using Avalanche but otherwise Waterfall is attractive for para flinch games in conjunction with Thunder. Speaking of, the move guarantees a OHKO on physically defensive Yveltal with rocks and can potentially paralyze and 2HKO any Lugia that attempt to switch in. EQ 2HKOs max HP Dialga and any PGroudon that isn't physically invested. As for Palkia, it can only check Kyogre once if uninvested and even max HP Palkia is playing a risky game trying to Toxic stall.
The main issue with the set is that Kyogre is so slow that it might be difficult to nail the 2HKOs, even thought Thunder paralysis helps somewhat (and the only immune Pokemon do not like rain Waterfall). If I'm thinking about this right, Primordial Sea will also prevent Will-o-wisp from burning Kyogre, and it's physical bias bypasses CM from the likes of Arceus, who it can comfortably 2HKO. Again, I haven't even tested it, but would appreciate some feedback before I do.
Kyogre@Blue Orb
Brave; 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Primordial Sea
Thunder
Aqua Tail
Avalanche
Earthquake
The idea is that thanks to rain and Kyogre's high base 150 Atk, it should be able to punish most switch-ins regardless. Using the physical set may help it get around some of its typical checks as well.
252+ Atk PKyogre Aqua Tail vs 252/252+ Groudon: (75.74% - 89.11%) 100% 2HKO SR+ Lefties
252+ Atk PKyogre Aqua Tail vs 164/0 Latias: (42.98% - 50.58%) 95.6% 2HKO SR
252+ Atk PKyogre Avalanche vs 164/0 Latias: (102.34% - 120.47%) 100% OHKO
252+ Atk PKyogre Earthquake vs 252/0 Dialga: (56.44% - 66.83%) 100% 2HKO SR+ Lefties
252+ Atk PKyogre Earthquake vs 252/0 PGroudon (44.6% - 51.9%) 100% 2HKO SR
252+ Atk PKyogre Avalanche vs 4/0 Delta Stream MegaRay: (90.91% - 107.39%) 41% OHKO
252+ Atk PKyogre Avalanche vs 248/8 Palkia: (41.25% - 48.83%) 10.78% 2HKO SR
252+ Atk PKyogre Avalanche vs 4/0 Palkia: (49.69% - 58.70%) 100% 2HKO SR
252+ Atk PKyogre Aqua Tail vs 248/8 Xerneas: (61.32 - 72.09) 100% 2HKO SR+ Lefties
252+ Atk PKyogre Aqua Tail vs 252/0 Arceus: (51.58 - 60.81) 100% 2HKO SR
252 SpA PKyogre Thunder vs 248/8 Yveltal: (74.29% - 87.47%) 92.31% OHKO SR
252 SpA PKyogre Thunder vs 252/4 Lugia: (55.29% - 65.38%) 100% 2HKO SR
Notably, this set can OHKO the likes of Soul Dew Latias and MegaRay as they switch in or if they feel that they can set up or Recover; 148 SpA Soul Dew Latias can never OHKO Primal Kyogre with Thunder or Grass Knot so staying in for Avalanche may end in your favor. Aqua Tail is necessary for the 2HKO on Latias if not using Avalanche but otherwise Waterfall is attractive for para flinch games in conjunction with Thunder. Speaking of, the move guarantees a OHKO on physically defensive Yveltal with rocks and can potentially paralyze and 2HKO any Lugia that attempt to switch in. EQ 2HKOs max HP Dialga and any PGroudon that isn't physically invested. As for Palkia, it can only check Kyogre once if uninvested and even max HP Palkia is playing a risky game trying to Toxic stall.
The main issue with the set is that Kyogre is so slow that it might be difficult to nail the 2HKOs, even thought Thunder paralysis helps somewhat (and the only immune Pokemon do not like rain Waterfall). If I'm thinking about this right, Primordial Sea will also prevent Will-o-wisp from burning Kyogre, and it's physical bias bypasses CM from the likes of Arceus, who it can comfortably 2HKO. Again, I haven't even tested it, but would appreciate some feedback before I do.
This set does not appear to be that good. Thunder paralysis chance does not off set the fact that this set is slow and that the lack of bulk will cause you more than likely to be ko'ed before your opponent and cause primal kyogre to be worn down quickly. Your lack of speed also allows yveltal and lugia to out speed and toxic you or use roost to heal off your damage while also neutering the damage of thunder and avalanche. It is also out classed by special attacker primal Kyogre since it can be faster or bulkier and do more damage. Also out of all your physical attacks only earthquake is not weaker than its special version or have more drawbacks. Avalanche requires you to take damage to be stronger than ice beam, and aqua tail is straight out weaker than origin pulse. It would be much better just to pump all those attack ev into speed or hp so you will not get out speed or ko'ed quickly. Also in the end even with your brave nature none of your physical attacks except avalanche sometimes and earthquake do more damage than your special options. Though I have not tested it, this set seems to be inferior to primal kyogre standard set.
Why on Earth would you run physical Ogre? Its physical movepool is garbage and it doesn't even hit things much betterthan otherwise, especially when compared to specs.
Sounds to me like you'd be better off dropping Thunder for something like Twave, which would free up those SpA EVs to go into speed (which would fuck up Avalanche, but that shouldn't be an issue since you're aiming to nail things on the switch). Thunder doesn't seem worth it when you consider the EV investment for only hitting a handful of threats, while it sounds like you're really wanting some para support (which is a good idea). But hey, I'm no expert.
An even better idea is not running physical Ogre.
Sounds to me like you'd be better off dropping Thunder for something like Twave, which would free up those SpA EVs to go into speed (which would fuck up Avalanche, but that shouldn't be an issue since you're aiming to nail things on the switch). Thunder doesn't seem worth it when you consider the EV investment for only hitting a handful of threats, while it sounds like you're really wanting some para support (which is a good idea). But hey, I'm no expert.
An even better idea is not running physical Ogre.
You're right on everything except avalanche, which has a negative priority and should move last regardless of speed.
So I switched in Primal Kyogre on Darkrai as it used Nasty Plot primarily as fodder. I was impressed when it took the +2 Dark Pulse from at 70% health (Darkrai got hosed afterwards of course) and after the battle I realized I had forgot to put any bulk investment on it whatsoever lol. In other words, this whale is a lot bulkier than I expected.
I've been running 252 Speed Evs for the All Out Attacker set, but I'm wondering if it would be better to invest in HP instead. It doesn't seem like Modest can outspeed much besides speed tie opposing P-Don/Ogre.
Building on what you said about the increased bulk, I think 252Hp/252+Satk is the best spread for it. I don't see a big advantage in running neutral 252 speed beside tying with Primal Groudon. Slower speed also allows rain to overide sun should Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre be both sent out at the same time. More HP allows it to tank better hits.
I'm currently trying just enough to outspeed uninvested Xerneas and Yveltal. You only need 76 iirc, so the rest can go towards HP.
Who the heck runs uninvested speed XY Gods?
I don't know if there are updated ORAS builds, but the Defensive Yveltal and Xerneas sets on Smogon XY have zero speed EVs.
I'm 95% sure Will-O-Wisp doesn't work under Primordial Sea.
I just tested, and it was able to affect P-Ogre in heavy rain.
It doesnt
i stand corrected
According to a Showdown moderator, they are not supposed to block status moves. So I assume that is how it works in-game too.
O.o no wonder
Brick Break Primal Kyogre to stronk.
But in all honesty that's....Pretty lame. All that attack and it really has nothing to use it with, as stated earlier it's kind of a waste.
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