Process Guide Workshop for Create-A-Pokemon.

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They are balanced in the physical/special balance sense; they're not balanced in the offense/defense balance sense.

Pyroak turned out not to be balanced because the criterion used for balance at that time wasn't very good. With the new system, its offense/defense balance is -24.7 (biased to defense), while the physical/special balance is -6.1 (slightly biased to special).
 
I don't think I understand exactly how'd you get the best ev spread without burning time. It sounds excellent but how much time will it take to come up with the best EV spread? People complain that the process is going too slow as is, making another thing to vote on will only slow it down more.
No I mean in X-Acts stat ratings applet, have you seen his defensive evs one?
Its this have a look http://users.smogon.com/X-Act/defense.html

Anyway I was thinking of having it so the stat ratings applet had a checkbox with "use best ev spread" the applet would find the ev spread that gave the highest stat rating and tell you the power of that.

It would also be a useful tool to see if the stat ratings are accurate, if for most pokemon the suggested ev spread fits resanably with the normal ev spread (like not putting max HP/Defense on Deoxys-A, or trying to make Shuckle sweep) then it would show that ratings fit with normal Pokemon well.

X-Act could this be done?
 
Wow, I had a feeling I was missing something really important and I was. I really need to get used what stuff X-Act has made.

If I got the right idea, it is the best idea I have heard so far about stat ratings. :happybrain:
 
No I mean in X-Acts stat ratings applet, have you seen his defensive evs one?
Its this have a look http://users.smogon.com/X-Act/defense.html

Anyway I was thinking of having it so the stat ratings applet had a checkbox with "use best ev spread" the applet would find the ev spread that gave the highest stat rating and tell you the power of that.

It would also be a useful tool to see if the stat ratings are accurate, if for most pokemon the suggested ev spread fits resanably with the normal ev spread (like not putting max HP/Defense on Deoxys-A, or trying to make Shuckle sweep) then it would show that ratings fit with normal Pokemon well.

X-Act could this be done?
It can be done. The only thing I'm a bit worried about is how to interpret Speed EVs in the thing, and the fact that I don't have the chance to do it right now.
 
Create An Evolution Calender

This hasn't really had enough attention so i had a go at it, input would help alot. How to determine the build without letting people go and make a pokemon that is basically an evolution in look alone is the difficult part.


Also can we get a topic open to discuss what need's an evolution, this is risky because no doubt we will have random posters telling us why salamence is their favourite pokemon and needs an evolution. We do need a list though if this is gonna be a project.


Phase I: 8 Days


* Main Type (2 Days)-

Narrows down the number of pokemon to get evolutions, so we don't end up with single users posting about how their favourite pokemon deserves an evolution.


* Concept Discussion(2 days) -

Possibly a bit too open but a chance for people to discuss ideas that would be possible via a new evolution

* Will pokemon have a new additional typing Y/N Poll(1 day)
* Secondary Type(if needed)(2 days)

Phase 2- Build

* BST Rating(2 days)
* Style Bias (Offensive/Defensive/Mixed) (2 Days)
* Build Bias (Physical/Special/Mixed) (2 Days)

*Art Thread Opened
*Submission of BST totals

*BST Poll(2 days)

* Finalization of Art Submissions (1 Day)
* Art Selection Poll (2 Days)

* Begin Sprite Submission Thread
* New Ability(s) Discussion/Selection if needed (3 Days)

* Movepool Additions Discussion Thread(2 days)
* Begin Name Submission Thread

* Name Poll (1 Day)

* Begin Pokedex Entry Submission Thread
* Movepool Specifics (2 Days)
* Begin Analysis Thread
* Sprite Poll Thread & Pokedex Poll Thread (1 Day Total, simultaneous threads)
* Etc (Pre-Evolutions, Height, Weight, Finish Analysis)
* Complete
 
I am currently working on a detailed description of the order of events I posted earlier. I'd like to have this document posted before starting the next project. I am trying to get this done in the next day or two. Hopefully, I will finish the first draft tonight or tomorrow, and then I will submit it here for peer edit.
 
Well here it is.... I've been working on this for quite some time. I still have not completed some detailed descriptions of a few steps of the process. But, this is a long document and I need to start getting feedback on it. I also have explicitly asked for some help describing a few of the steps.

I am hoping for this document to be used by the Topic Leader as a detailed step-by-step "How To" manual for orchestrating the creation of a pokemon in the CAP project. The sequence of events is enumerated in the overview. Each step of the sequence has a detailed description in the guide below. The detailed descriptions should give the TL clear direction on the goal and scope of each step of the process. In some cases, the description even includes text that should be copy-pasted directly into the OP of certain threads.

The goal here is to eliminate some of the confusion during the creation process and make the process more organized and enjoyable for everyone in the community.

I would appreciate any help you can give to improve the content of this document. Once we finalize all the edits, I will rework the Process Guide sticky to include this document.

--------------------------

Process Order of Events
(Multiple events on one "bullet", means the events kick off simultaneously)
  • Concept Submissions
    Topic Leader Nominations

  • Concept Poll
    Topic Leader Selection

  • Main Type Poll

  • Secondary Type Poll
    Stat Spread Submissions
    Art Submissions

  • Style Bias (Offensive/Defensive/Mixed)

  • Build Bias (Physical/Special/Mixed)

  • Stat Rating Poll

  • Stat Spread Poll

  • Art Poll

  • Ability Discussion
    Sprite Submissions

  • Ability Poll

  • Attack Moves Discussion

  • Attack Moves Poll
    Defense and Support Moves Discussion

  • Defense and Support Moves Poll

  • Complete Movepool Poll
    Name Submissions

  • Name Poll
    Pokedex Entry Submissions

  • Sprite Poll
    Pokedex Poll

  • Server Implementation
    Finalize Analysis
    Misc (Pre-Evos, Height, Weight, etc.)

  • Playtesting


Detailed Process Descriptions


Concept Submissions

(To be posted in the OP)
This is where we define the general goal of the upcoming project. The Concept will be a guiding force throughout the ensuing project, to ensure the the final result is a cohesive competitive pokemon. Any discussions, suggestions, or submissions in later topics, that do not support the spirit of the Concept, will be moderated by the Topic Leader.

All members of the community are welcome to post ideas and comments in this thread. At the conclusion of the discussion, the CAP Moderator will select several participants from this thread to make formal concept submissions that will be voted on in the Concept Poll.

Concepts should be presented as high-level descriptions of a general idea. They should not be detailed pokemon designs. Since we have polls to determine each aspect of the pokemon, we don't want the entire pokemon determined by the details of the Concept.

For example, this would an appropriate level of detail for a concept:

Concept: "Kingdra of the Sun"
Description: A balanced pokemon with a varied movepool under normal conditions. But, it will have an ability that allows it to become a dangerous sweeping force in sunny weather.
This would be too specific and restrictive:

Concept: "Kingdra of the Sun"
Description: A big flaming lizard pokemon with 90-100 in all attacking and defensive stats. It's speed will be 80-90, and it will have Chlorophyll for an ability -- so that when Sunny Day is in effect, it will be able to sweep opponents with powered up Fire Blast and Overheat. It should also have Swords Dance and Flame Wheel to take advantage of its decent Attack stat.

The latter description basically eliminates most of the creativity in the typing, art, stats, ability, and movepool polls.

It is hard to provide solid concept descriptions without basically designing the entire pokemon right off the bat. Submissions should be written and chosen carefully, to avoid these problems.​


Topic Leader Nominations

(To be posted in the OP)
This is the thread for people to announce their desire to be the Topic Leader for the upcoming creation project. Do not suggest other people. If someone doesn't strongly desire to be a Topic Leader without provocation, then we don't need them signing up for the job. Topic Leader is not an honorary title. It requires a lot of work and attention. If you are not prepared to fulfill all the responsibilities, then do not throw your hat in the ring.

Do not post here that you want to be on the TL Selection Panel. That panel will be selected after we have a slate of candidates. Candidates cannot be part of the panel. Go here for more information on the Topic Leader and TL Selection Panel.

This thread is strictly for candidacy posts, and posts supporting those candidates. Please stay on topic.

Here are the guidelines for posting in this thread:

  • Do not suggest other people. If you want you encourage someone else to run, then send them a PM.

  • If you are new to the CAP project, don't bother signing up to be a Topic Leader. Lurk moar.

  • Include a summary of your involvement in the CAP project.

  • Make a pitch for why you should be selected. If you can't present and defend yourself, then how can you expect to lead a project whose primary function is discussion and debate? Convince us that you are a good choice.

  • Poor spelling, punctuation, and grammar are great ways to look like an uneducated idiot. It's not a great way to look like a thoughtful, intelligent, community leader.

  • Even if you don't think you are better-qualified than certain other candidates, you still should consider posting a candidacy. Candidates not selected as the TL for this project, will be on the "watch list" by the community for next time. Don't post your name if you don't intend to be active in the project, even if you are not selected. Like I said, if you post here, people will be scrutinizing your involvement more closely in the future.

  • Feel free to post support for any candidates already named.

  • Please do not post disparaging remarks about any candidates.

If these rules are not followed by all posters, I will moderate the offenders.


Concept Poll

This is the poll to vote on the submissions made by the Concept Submitters selected at the conclusion of the Concept Submission thread.​


Topic Leader Selection

This is not a poll or thread. It is an internal process coordinated by the CAP Moderator.

The TL is selected by a Topic Leader Selection Panel. The panel is comprised of past TL's and several other senior members of the CAP project. The Selection Panel maintains it's own membership, however past TL's are automatically added to the panel, unless they decline to participate. Current members of the Selection Panel are not allowed to run for Topic Leader. Therefore, the TL Selection Panel should be named only after all interested candidates have been nominated.

General criteria for TL Selection Panelists:
  • A history of involvement with the CAP project
  • Active participation
  • A history of advocating opinions that are representative of the community as a whole
  • Respected by others on the project

The CAP Moderator serves as the non-voting chairperson of the TL Selection Panel. The chairperson organizes the nomination threads, coordinates private voting by the TL Selection Panel, and only votes in the case of a tie. The chairperson ensures the panel does its job in a timely and efficient manner, and ensures there are no improprieties during private voting.

Once the TL has been selected, they create and lead all subsequent threads related to the creation project.​


Main Type Poll

This decides the "primary" type for the pokemon. Types that have been recently used on previous CAP creations should be avoided, if possible. Click polling is suggested, to encourage new participants to vote and join the project at the outset. Towards the end of this poll, discussion regarding the secondary type is encouraged.​


Secondary Type Poll

This decides the "secondary" type for the pokemon. Since so many dual-type combinations have not been covered in-game, mono-typing is generally discouraged. Types that have been recently used on previous CAP creations should be avoided, if possible. Click polling is suggested. Towards the end of this poll, discussion regarding the Style and Build is encouraged.​


Stat Spread Submissions

The Stat Spread Submission thread is intentionally started very early in the process. Based on past pokemon, it's obvious there are a lot of people that enjoy discussing detailed stat spreads long before the actual stat spread poll. We do not want to police those early bird discussions in the normal threads, therefore we create a dedicated thread for all Stat Spread discussion. Does it matter that we don't know the style, build, or anything else about the pokemon? No. If people waste a bunch of time in this thread on submissions that turn out to be useless when the stat spread poll comes around -- so be it. This is the place for people to "prove themselves" to the TL, for purposes of being selected to submit a spread for the actual stat spread poll.​


Art Submissions

(To be posted in the OP)
All art designs, ideas, inspirational material, and submissions are posted and discussed here.

Here are the guidelines for posting in this thread:
  • Art submissions are designs to guide the creation of final battle sprites that will be used for the pokemon.
  • Any rendering medium can be used to present a design, as long as it is a full-sized design. Sprites are not allowed here. Spriting is a separate process that will occur later.
  • Compressed images of reasonable dimensions should be posted. Oversized submissions (file size or image size) will be deleted.
  • Colored designs are strongly encouraged for final submissions. However, many artists prefer to post uncolored designs and sketches, to solicit early feedback, then color them later for final submission.
  • If artists wish to comment or criticize other artists' work, this is the place for it. Criticisms amongst artists are discouraged in the later art poll threads.
  • No art submissions should be modified by others without the explicit permission of the original artists.
  • Using other submissions as "inspiration" for an original artwork is allowed. However, outright "stealing" of designs is prohibited.

Art submissions for the art poll will be selected by the Topic Leader, based on preference and feedback in this thread. There is no process for overturning the Topic Leader's decision. If you are not comfortable with this stipulation, then do not make an art submission. Do not post any complaints here or in later threads.​


Style Bias (Offensive/Defensive/Mixed)

(I NEED HELP HERE)


Build Bias (Physical/Special/Mixed)

(I NEED HELP HERE)


Stat Rating Poll

This poll determines the desired overall "power level" of the pokemon's base stats. In the past, the Base Stat Total (BST) was used to measure the power of base statistics. Since BST is a very poor measurement for stat power, the CAP project now uses Stat Ratings to determine the overall effectiveness of a pokemon's base stats. Polling is simpler, and the results are more useful. The Stat Rating is determined by a formula created by X-Act.

Information about the formula is located here.


A utility for calculating Stat Rating is located here.


Stat Spread Poll

This poll determines the exact base stat spread for the pokemon. Based on participation and feedback in the Stat Spread Submission thread, the TL should select several people to make formal Stat Spread Submissions. These submissions are the voting options in this poll. The OP should contain a list of all the submissions, along with a description of the spread by the Stat Spread creator.​


Art Poll

This poll determines the artistic design for the pokemon. Later in the process, the design will be used as a reference for making the battle sprite. Art submissions for the art poll will be selected by the Topic Leader, based on preference and feedback in the art submission thread. To encourage participation by multiple members of the community, it is advised that the topic leader choose no more than one art submission per artist. If an artist submits multiple high-quality artworks, the TL should contact the artist to determine which one they prefer to submit to the final poll. The art for all voting options should be included in the OP and referenced by artist name in the poll.​


Ability Discussion

This thread is open for discussion of existing ingame abilities, and possible new abilities for the pokemon. New abilities should be considered with caution. The TL should be actively involved in this discussion to prevent unreasonable ability suggestions (new or existing) from gaining support. The TL will use the suggestions and feedback from this thread to determine the voting slate for the Ability Poll.​


Sprite Submissions

(To be posted in the OP)
Rules

1) Sprites should be inspired by the winning design from the Art Poll. It does not need to be an exact rendition of every detail of the design; "artistic license" is granted to all spriters. However, drastic deviation from the selected art design is discouraged.
2) All sprites (front and back) can have a maximum size of 80x80.
3) All sprites (front and back) must have a complete, unbroken, distinguishable outline. It does not need to be a black outline, but it must be clearly distinguishable from the adjacent interior colors of the sprite. Look at the ingame sprites for examples.
4) Sprites must be in PNG format
5) Use 8-bit truecolor (aka 8-bit RGB) or less. This does NOT mean 256 color mode.
6) Use transparent backgrounds
7) Fusions of other sprites are not allowed. All sprites must be scratch sprites.
8) Do not alter, fuse, recolor or otherwise modify another spriter's submission – unless the original artist explicitly gives permission.

Failure to follow these guidelines will result in the submission being disqualified and the post will be deleted.

Sprite submissions for the sprite poll will be selected by the Topic Leader, based on preference and feedback in this thread. There is no process for overturning the Topic Leader's decision. If you are not comfortable with this stipulation, then do not make a sprite submission. Do not post any complaints here or in later threads.

Additional Information

There are 8 possible sprites:
Front Normal Male
Front Normal Female
Front Shiny Male
Front Shiny Female
Back Normal Male
Back Normal Female
Back Shiny Male
Back Shiny Female

In most cases, spriters submit a Front Normal sprite first. Once feedback comes in and the poll nears, they make the other sprites.

You do not have to make different Male and Female sprites, but it helps. Since there are only minute differences between most ingame male and female sprites, it’s not very hard to tweak the sprite for a different gender. Some spriters have made noticeable changes between genders, and that’s fine too.

Shinies are just recolors, so that’s not too tough. There’s lots of people that can’t scratch, that are willing to recolor your shiny, if you really don’t want to do it yourself. Just ask in the submission thread and you’ll get plenty of offers to help.

Please look at your transparent sprites against different colored backgrounds, not just white. In Shoddy, the sprite will be displayed on multiple background colors in the Team Builder and in battle.​


Ability Poll

The Topic Leader chooses a slate of Abilities based on suggestions and feedback in the Ability Poll. Normally, two abilities are chosen. It is left to the TL's discretion as to whether "No second ability" is voting option on the poll.​


Attacking Moves Discussion

The TL should post an initial competitive Attacking movepool in the OP of a discussion thread. This initial movepool should only contain damage-dealing moves that are considered "competitive". No "flavor" moves should be included. Moves that do not deal significant damage should not be included (see Non-Attacking moves below). As a general rule, any competitive move that can be prevented by Taunt, should not be included in this discussion. It is up to the TL's discretion as to which moves should be discussed in this thread, and which moves should be deferred until the Non-Attacking Moves Discussion. The community should post regarding necessary additions and removals to the list proposed in the OP. No full learnset posts are allowed in this discussion, and should be strictly prohibited.​


Attacking Moves Poll

This poll is for voting on controversial attacking moves. Based on suggestions and feedback in the Attacking Moves Discussion, the TL should select a slate of moves that were not generally agreed upon by the community. It is entirely up to the TL as to which moves are deemed "controversial".​


Non-Attacking Moves Discussion

The TL should post an initial competitive Non-Attacking movepool in the OP of a discussion thread. This initial movepool should only contain competitive moves that do not do damage to the opponent, or moves whose damage impact is negligible. For example, Rapid Spin and Knock Off are considered non-attacking moves, even though they do a small amount of damage. As a general rule, any competitive move that can be prevented by Taunt, should be included in this discussion. The community should post regarding necessary additions and removals to the list proposed in the OP. No full learnset posts are allowed in this discussion, and should be strictly prohibited.​


Non-Attacking Moves Poll

This poll is for voting on controversial non-attacking moves. Based on suggestions and feedback in the Non-Attacking Moves Discussion, the TL should select a slate of moves that were not generally agreed upon by the community. It is entirely up to the TL as to which moves are deemed "controversial".​


Complete Movepool Submissions

This is the thread where all competitive moves are integrated into a complete pokemon movepool, which includes Level-Up, TM, HM, and Egg Moves. This is also the thread where Breeding Group is discussed.

Based on participation in the previous movepool threads, the TL should select several members to present a complete movepool submission. Since all the competitive moves will have been decided, the movepool submissions will merely add "flavor" moves to round out the movepool.

The members selected to make submissions should be listed in the OP of this thread. The selected submitters can post their WIP movepools in this thread for feedback and discussion from the rest of the community. X-Act wrote a guide that describes the characteristics of an appropriate movepool. That guide is located here, and should be used as a reference for all movepool submitters.

If anyone attempts to include additional competitive moves, not agreed in the previous polls, it will be the TL's responsibility to see that the submitter removes them from the full movepool submission.​


Complete Movepool Poll

All the members selected in the Complete Movepool Submission thread should make a final submission to the TL. These submissions should be listed in the OP of the poll thread and voted on by the community. No alterations, edits, or conditional votes will be accepted. By the time the final movepool is polled, all competitive movepool aspects have already been decided. Therefore, the final movepool is really a vote of individual preference on what best fits the flavor of the pokemon.​


Name Submissions

This is a short discussion thread for everyone to submit possible names for the new pokemon. All members are welcome to submit names.​


Name Poll

Based on submissions and feedback in the Name Submission thread, the TL selects a slate of names for the Name Poll. Click polling is strongly encouraged.​


Pokedex Entry Submissions

This thread is for submitting and discussing pokedex entries for the new pokemon. Pokedex entries should adhere to the spirit and example of existing ingame pokedex descriptions. As the thread progresses, the TL should add and remove the top candidate entries to the OP of this thread. That allows the community to make wording adjustments, if necessary, without scrutinizing every entry posted in the thread.​


Sprite Poll

This poll determines the battle sprite that will be used when the pokemon is implemented on the CAP battle server. Sprite submissions for the art poll will be selected by the Topic Leader, based on preference and feedback in the Sprite Submission thread. The sprites for all voting options should be included in the OP and referenced by artist name in the poll.​


Pokedex Poll

Based on submissions and feedback in the Pokedex Entry Submission thread, the TL selects a slate of pokedex entries for the poll. Generally, three pokedex entries are selected in the voting process - one entry each for Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum.​


Server Implementation

TBD

Finalize Analysis

TBD

Misc (Pre-Evos, Height, Weight, etc.)

TBD

Playtesting

TBD
 
Main Type Poll

This decides the "primary" type for the pokemon. Types that have been recently used on previous CAP creations should be avoided, if possible. Click polling is suggested, to encourage new participants to vote and join the project at the outset. Towards the end of this poll, discussion regarding the secondary type is encouraged.​


Secondary Type Poll

This decides the "secondary" type for the pokemon. Since so many dual-type combinations have not been covered in-game, mono-typing is generally discouraged. Types that have been recently used on previous CAP creations should be avoided, if possible. Click polling is suggested. Towards the end of this poll, discussion regarding the Style and Build is encouraged.​

This was already discussed, if the majority of the people want another Fire pokemon or a mono type then they should get that,therefore both bold votes allowing every type. This isn't a project to see if we can make every viable combination competitive.

Ability Discussion

This thread is open for discussion of existing ingame abilities, and possible new abilities for the pokemon. New abilities should be considered with caution. The TL should be actively involved in this discussion to prevent unreasonable ability suggestions (new or existing) from gaining support. The TL will use the suggestions and feedback from this thread to determine the voting slate for the Ability Poll.​

This is totally biased towards the pokemon having to have two abilities imo break it down to two sections:

+A Simple One Day Poll(One Ability,Two Abilities)
+Ability Discussion

Order of the two doesn't matter that much

Style Bias (Offensive/Defensive/Mixed)

(I NEED HELP HERE)


Build Bias (Physical/Special/Mixed)

(I NEED HELP HERE)


Stat Rating Poll

Ok these are basically all the ratings for the relevant BL/OU pokemon, make of them what you will.

Stat Rating Poll Options:

Less then 250
Marowak,Dugtrio,Ninjask (Basically weak stat wise but made by their trait)
300-350
Forry,Skarmory,Steelix,Spiritomb
350-400
Alakazam,Staraptor,Slowbro,Bronzong,Dusknoir,Mismagius,Tauros,Rampardos
400-450
Roserade,Floatzel,Abomasnow,Gengar,Scizor,Pinsir,Houdoom,Tangrowth,Rhyperior,Gliscor,Weavile,
Tentacruel,Gallade
450-500
Umbreon,Lucario,Hippodown,Starmie,Empoleon,Regice,Crobat,Snorlax,Yanmega,Blaziken
500-550
Mamoswine,Swampert,Deoxys-S,Electavire,Togekiss,Kingdra,Infernape,PorygonZ,Milotic,Togekiss
550-600
Gyarados,Uxie
600-650
Arcanine,Azelf,Mespirit,Suicune,Articuno
650-700
Metagross,Raikou,Moltres,Zapdos,Cressy,Darkrai,Entei,
700-750
Heatran,Dragonite
750-800
Celebi,Mew,Manaphy,Shaymin,Salamence,Garchomp
900+
Slaking,The Crap Regi or Go Fuck Yourself were not making Ubers here

I haven't worked out Tyranitar but it sits at the high end of 650-700, this is without factoring in the sandstorm boost.


Style/Bias Whatever i think would be best like:

Speed
Offence Bias eg(Extreme Bias To Physical Attack,Moderate Bias To Special Attack)
Defensive Bias(No Bias,Extreme Bias to Special Defence)
Offence/Defence Bias

Though the ratings formula may need to be altered slightly.
 
Agreeing with latino, all types should be included in the poll so it must be a bold text vote.
I have made edits to that section:

Main Type Poll
This decides the "primary" type for the Pokemon. All types should be included in the poll, and as Click Polls only fit 10 a Bold Text Vote must be used. Towards the end of this poll, discussion regarding the secondary type is encouraged.​
Secondary Type Poll
This decides the "secondary" type for the Pokemon. All type combos, even those that are extremely common in-game, should be included, this means that Bold Text Voting must be used. Towards the end of this poll, discussion regarding the Style and Build is encouraged.

Also agreeing partly with latino about the ability "no ability" should always be an option for second ability poll.

Will write something about bias later.
 
Style Bias (Offensive/Defensive/Mixed)

Why not just poll on the ODB?

Code:
ODB is               Pokemon's Stats are geared      Example Pokemon with this ODB
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More than 40         Absolutely towards offense      Alakazam, Gengar, Azelf
Between 30 and 40    Strongly towards offense        Weavile, Porygon-Z, Salamence
Between 20 and 30    Towards offense                 Breloom, Electivire, Starmie
Between 10 and 20    Moderately towards offense      Garchomp, Heracross, Mamoswine
Between 5 and 10     Slightly towards offense        Gyarados, Heatran, Machamp
Between -5 and 5     Equally in offense and defense  Kingdra, Togekiss, Celebi
Between -10 and -5   Slightly towards defense        Abomasnow, Ludicolo, Nidoqueen
Between -20 and -10  Moderately towards defense      Tentacruel, Spiritomb, Donphan
Between -30 and -20  Towards defense                 Skarmory, Hippowdon, Bronzong
Between -40 and -30  Strongly towards defense        Forretress, Cresselia, Relicanth
Less than -40        Absolutely towards defense      Umbreon, Snorlax, Blissey


Build Bias (Physical/Special/Mixed)

Why not just vote on the PSB?

Code:
PSB is               Pokemon's Stats are geared       Example Pokemon with this PSB
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More than 40         Absolutely towards physical      Skarmory, Gliscor, Heracross
Between 30 and 40    Strongly towards physical        Tangrowth, Metagross, Garchomp
Between 20 and 30    Towards physical                 Weezing, Machamp, Gyarados
Between 10 and 20    Moderately towards physical      Dusknoir, Crobat, Dragonite
Between 5 and 10     Slightly towards physical        Dugtrio, Gallade, Arcanine
Between -5 and 5     Equally in physical and special  Blaziken, Slowbro, Bronzong
Between -10 and -5   Slightly towards special         Snorlax, Abomasnow, Cresselia
Between -20 and -10  Moderately towards special       Magnezone, Starmie, Heatran
Between -30 and -20  Towards special                  Zapdos, Sceptile, Slowking
Between -40 and -30  Strongly towards special         Raikou, Porygon-Z, Tentacruel
Less than -40        Absolutely towards special       Vaporeon, Milotic, Togekiss

My applet provides both the ODB and the PSB.
 
I think that is a bit too overwhelming to put in the OP and expect people to read, maybe remove the NU's and UU's and leave those that people are familiar with for the version that will be posted?

Also there should be a speed part, something like this:

Stupidly Fast >136 (Ninjask, Deoxys-S, Electrode)
Extremely Fast 126-135 (Jolteon, Aerodactyl, Crobat)
Very Fast 116-125 (Weavile, Dugtrio, Alakazam, Sceptile)
Fast 106-115 (Gengar, Infernape, Azelf, Espeon, Starmie)
Medium-Fast 101-105 (Garchomp, Mismagius)
Medium 91-100 (Celebi, Jirachi, Charizard, Salmence, Staraptor, Tentacreul, Typhlosion, Zapdos, Gliscor, Yanmega, )
Medium-Slow 81-90 (Lucario, Moltres, Porygon-Z, Rosearade, Cressalia, Heracross, Kingdra, Suicune, Magmortar, Gyrados)
Slow 71-80 (Mamoswine, Dragonite, Gallade, Togekiss, Heatran, Smeregle)
Very Slow 50-70 (Breloom, Metagross, Skarmory, Scizor, Vaporeon, Tyranitar, Abomnasnow, Blissey, Machamp, )
Extremely Slow <50 (Hippowdon, Dusknoir, Forretress, Bronzong, Snorlax)

Which could be narrowed down to this:

Stupidly Fast >136 (Ninjask, Deoxys-S, Electrode)
Extremely Fast 126-135 (Jolteon, Aerodactyl, Crobat)
Very Fast 116-125 (Weavile, Dugtrio, Alakazam, Sceptile)
Fast 106-115 (Gengar, Infernape, Azelf, Starmie)
Medium-Fast 101-105 (Garchomp, Mismagius)
Medium 91-100 (Salmence, Zapdos, Gliscor, Yanmega, The Pixies)
Medium-Slow 81-90 (Lucario, Porygon-Z, Rosearade, Cressalia, Heracross, Gyrados)
Slow 71-80 (Mamoswine, Gallade, Togekiss, Heatran)
Very Slow 60-70 (Breloom, Metagross, Skarmory, Tyranitar)
Extremely Slow <60 (Blissey, Machamp, Hippowdon, Forretress, Bronzong)

The smaller divisions that previous CaPs are due the the fact that (for instance) 102 speed (Mr. Chompy) is far better than 100 speed, or 121 speed (Syclant I am looking at you) is a big step up from 120.

The "Very Slow" Division could be merged with "Extremely Slow", but notice how some Pokemon (Breloom and Metagross) if they max their speed can beat a sizeable chunk of the metagame, where as on something like Hippwodon or Machamp Speed Evs are near useless.
 
Yes its much better now, how would it look if you removed enough so it did not need
Code:
 tags?


[QUOTE]I never said anything about it before, but do we need a limit towards Speed when discussing BST spreads?[/QUOTE]
I don't think we "need" a limit, but a vote on how much speed it should have is useful.
 
I edited it out so that only three Pokemon examples are given for each grouped ODB and PSB rating. Some of them did not contain enough OU examples, so I filled them out with BL ones.
 
Lets see with the
Code:
 tags off[U][B]

Style Bias[/B] (Offensive/Defensive/Mixed)[/U]
 
Why not just poll on the ODB?
 
ODB is               Pokemon's Stats are geared      Example Pokemon with this ODB
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More than 40           Absolutely towards offense Alakazam, Gengar, Azelf
Between 30 and 40      Strongly towards offense           Weavile, Porygon-Z, Salamence
Between 20 and 30      Towards offense                                Breloom, Electivire, Starmie
Between 10 and 20      Moderately towards offense      Garchomp, Heracross, Mamoswine
Between 5 and 10         Slightly towards offense             Gyarados, Heatran, Machamp
Between -5 and 5         Equally in offense and defense  Kingdra, Togekiss, Celebi
Between -10 and -5  Slightly towards defense             Abomasnow, Ludicolo, Nidoqueen
Between -20 and -10  Moderately towards defense      Tentacruel, Spiritomb, Donphan
Between -30 and -20  Towards defense                 Skarmory,  Hippowdon, Bronzong
Between -40 and -30  Strongly towards defense        Forretress, Cresselia, Relicanth
Less than -40                  Absolutely towards defense       Umbreon, Snorlax, Blissey 
[U][B]Build Bias[/B] (Physical/Special/Mixed)[/U]
 
Why not just vote on the PSB?
 
PSB is               Pokemon's Stats are geared       Example Pokemon with this PSB
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More than 40         Absolutely towards physical      Skarmory, Gliscor, Heracross
Between 30 and 40    Strongly towards physical        Tangrowth, Metagross, Garchomp
Between 20 and 30    Towards physical                 Weezing, Machamp, Gyarados
Between 10 and 20    Moderately towards physical      Dusknoir, Crobat, Dragonite
Between 5 and 10     Slightly towards physical        Dugtrio, Gallade, Arcanine
Between -5 and 5     Equally in physical and special  Blaziken, Slowbro, Bronzong
Between -10 and -5   Slightly towards special         Snorlax, Abomasnow, Cresselia
Between -20 and -10  Moderately towards special       Magnezone, Starmie, Heatran
Between -30 and -20  Towards special                  Zapdos, Sceptile, Slowking
Between -40 and -30  Strongly towards special         Raikou, Porygon-Z, Tentacruel
Less than -40        Absolutely towards special       Vaporeon, Milotic, Togekiss

Edit: With [code] tags is much better.
 
A speed poll is needed because it is much more important from a competitive aspect. A few extra points in attack is alot less important then a few extra in speed. If Garchomp had 100 base speed as opposed to 102 you would probably see a slight difference towards how it is played etc.
 
For the bias polls, I think presenting all those options are just too much for one poll. How about we split each poll into two short polls.

For Style Bias we start with a short poll with three options -- Offensive, Defensive, and Mixed.
Depending on the winner of poll 1 -- that will limit the ODB options presented for poll 2.

Offensive ODB
More than 40 -- Absolutely towards offense (Alakazam, Gengar, Azelf)
Between 30 and 40 -- Strongly towards offense (Weavile, Porygon-Z, Salamence)
Between 20 and 30 -- Towards offense (Breloom, Electivire, Starmie)

Mixed ODB
Between 10 and 20 -- Moderately towards offense (Garchomp, Heracross, Mamoswine)
Between 5 and 10 -- Slightly towards offense (Gyarados, Heatran, Machamp)
Between -5 and 5 --Equally in offense and defense (Kingdra, Togekiss, Celebi)
Between -10 and -5 -- Slightly towards defense (Abomasnow, Ludicolo, Nidoqueen)
Between -20 and -10 --Moderately towards defense (Tentacruel, Spiritomb, Donphan)

Defensive ODB
Between -30 and -20 --Towards defense (Skarmory, Hippowdon, Bronzong)
Between -40 and -30 -- Strongly towards defense (Forretress, Cresselia, Relicanth)
Less than -40 -- Absolutely towards defense (Umbreon, Snorlax, Blissey)



For Build Bias we start with a short poll with three options -- Physical, Special, and Mixed.
Depending on the winner of poll 1 -- that will limit the PSB options presented for poll 2.

Physical PSB
More than 40 --Absolutely towards physical (Skarmory, Gliscor, Heracross)
Between 30 and 40 -- Strongly towards physical (Tangrowth, Metagross, Garchomp)
Between 20 and 30 -- Towards physical (Weezing, Machamp, Gyarados)

Mixed PSB
Between 10 and 20 -- Moderately towards physical (Dusknoir, Crobat, Dragonite)
Between 5 and 10 -- Slightly towards physical (Dugtrio, Gallade, Arcanine)
Between -5 and 5 -- Equally in physical and special (Blaziken, Slowbro, Bronzong)
Between -10 and -5 -- Slightly towards special (Snorlax, Abomasnow, Cresselia)
Between -20 and -10 -- Moderately towards special (Magnezone, Starmie, Heatran)

Special PSB
Between -30 and -20 -- Towards special (Zapdos, Sceptile, Slowking)
Between -40 and -30 -- Strongly towards special (Raikou, Porygon-Z, Tentacruel)
Less than -40 -- Absolutely towards special (Vaporeon, Milotic, Togekiss)
 
I agree with you Doug about having two short polls to determine ODB and PSB.

I'm not against a speed poll, but I'll remind you that increasing Speed tends to make a Pokemon more offensive in the ODB scale, and decreasing Speed tends to make it more defensive. This is because a higher speed will make a Pokemon have better sweepiness, and hence will be more offensive.
 
I agree with you Doug about having two short polls to determine ODB and PSB.

I'm not against a speed poll, but I'll remind you that increasing Speed tends to make a Pokemon more offensive in the ODB scale, and decreasing Speed tends to make it more defensive. This is because a higher speed will make a Pokemon have better sweepiness, and hence will be more offensive.

I will add the ODB and PDB polling options to the guide.

Since we now have three major polls based on the Stat Ratings formula and applet, it would probably be helpful if someone wrote a little guide for stat spread creators. I think the Stat Rating applet is fairly self-explanatory from a use standpoint. But I don't know if stat spread creators will know how to come up with good spreads, working within the confines of three different limits voted in the polls.

When the final stat spreads are submitted, they must conform to the Offensive/Defensive Balance limits, the Physical/Special Balance limits, and the Overall Base Stat Rating limits. Should stat spread creators just play with the numbers until their spreads fit the limits? Or, is there a general set of guidelines for how a spread should be made to fit the limits?

I am envisioning a short guide that has the same general feel as X-Acts guide on making a complete movepool -- a "Guide for Creating a Stat Spread". I would like to link the guide into the process document.

Any thoughts? Any volunteers?
 
I am envisioning a short guide that has the same general feel as X-Acts guide on making a complete movepool -- a "Guide for Creating a Stat Spread". I would like to link the guide into the process document.

Any thoughts? Any volunteers?
I'll volunteer on this. I can write a guide that explains how to make a stat spread given an ODB, PSB and an Overall Rating of a Pokemon. I think it wouldn't be a long guide too. I'll just have to tell you that you'll probably need to wait a bit in order to see me post it, as right now I'm quite busy with other things.
 
I've updated the Process Guide sticky with the new process changes. At some point later, we can update the final steps with some detail. I don't think it's terribly important to get this detail in place right now.

I would like to get CAP 4 underway soon. Hopefully everyone is done with exams, the new server is running, and Pyroak has become "old news" on the battle server. With all the Smogon downtime, and a general lull in activity -- we could use a new pokemon project to jumpstart the forum.

I wanted the new process guide in place before starting CAP 4. Now that the Guide is posted, I'll start on getting the Concept Discussion and TL Nomination threads made.

I've contacted chaos about adding a news announcement to the Smogon front page. Since SCMS is still offline, I can't submit the news item myself. I'm sure chaos has his hands full with the server move, so we'll see when we can get some publicity generated for a new project.
 
About voting for stats rating, they should be divided as follows, in my opinion:

Code:
Rating is       Pokemon's Stats are  Pokemon with this rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More than 1400  Exaggerated          Slaking, Regigigas
900 to 1399     Too Good             None
580 to 899      Fantastic            Cresselia, Azelf, Salamence, Garchomp, Celebi, Jirachi, Heatran, Zapdos
420 to 579      Excellent            Dragonite, Entei, Blissey, Tyranitar, Suicune, Metagross, Snorlax
300 to 419      Very Good            Infernape, Electivire, Porygon-Z, Gyarados, Togekiss, Milotic, Gengar, Umbreon, Lucario, Deoxys-S, Weavile, Vaporeon, Hippowdon, Yanmega, Jolteon, Swampert
250 to 299      Quite Good           Heracross, Gallade, Starmie, Roserade, Magnezone, Tentacruel 
210 to 249      Good                 Scizor, Machamp, Donphan, Abomasnow, Dusknoir
175 to 209      Average              Weezing, Breloom, Forretress, Skarmory
143 to 174      Below Average        Spiritomb
127 to 142      Poor                 Ninjask, Wobbuffet, Marowak, Medicham
100 to 126      Bad                  Dugtrio
99 or less      Horrible             Smeargle
Basically they should be divided by the word rating. The overall rating is not a linear relationship and hence should not be divided in 50s.

And I'm working a bit on the guide.
 
About voting for stats rating, they should be divided as follows, in my opinion:

- snip -

Basically they should be divided by the word rating. The overall rating is not a linear relationship and hence should not be divided in 50s.

And I'm working a bit on the guide.

Since Too Good and Exaggerated are not viable -- that gives us ten options, which is the limit for a poll.
 
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