This issue was brought up earlier in this thread by the likes of quziel, Rabia, and Lily, and I agree with their sentiments. To avoid detracting discussion from the original thread, I made this thread to discuss this since it’s a topic that really should be discussed. Most of this post is just going to be similar to Lily's but I figured I’d formally state my support for locking rises for the final months in a generation. To be specific, April should be the last month for rises and nothing should rise for the shifts in July and October. For context, I am a lower tier main, I play UU and contribute there daily. I am also a council member and care lots about my tier. In this upcoming shift, we are set to lose the former two and likely lose the latter two of the following
| 34 | Slowking | 5.395% |
| 35 | Excadrill | 5.055% |
| 40 | Nihilego | 4.291% |
| 41 | Rotom-Wash | 4.223% |
The loss of these Pokemon is monumental for the tier. And I truly mean it when I say monumental. UU would lose 4 very common and splashable staples that contribute largely to the health of the tier in the final months of the generation. Excadrill is an offensive check to dangerous threats like Aegislash and is a key hazard remover, being one of the only good ones so to speak. Slowking is an integral defensive switchin against the likes of Primarina, Moltres, Salamence, Conkeldurr, and Keldeo. Nihilego is an excellent Stealth Rocker and answer to the super dangerous Thundurus-T and checks other mons like Moltres and special attacker Salamence. Rotom-W is very useful in answering super dangerous threats like Mamoswine and Scizor who don’t have many defensive answers. Losing these 4 would send the tier into a downwards spiral, it’d have to be entirely reshaped and I would not be surprised for bans to happen as a result. It could be fine, but why would we take this chance when there’s an easier option available. Additionally, UU is dealing with controversial threats like Scizor and Aegislash right now, both the centers of wide discussion. It’d be very hard to take action on them and simultaneously deal with the aftermath of the shifts in 4 months, not to mention there’s ANOTHER shift that may screw us over. It’s just not beneficial nor fun at all, and like others have mentioned interest is dwindling, at that point who would bother picking up the pieces of a ruined tier and instead just wait for the new gen. I understand this has to apply to all lower tiers, and even though I’m mostly an observer for other lower tiers, I imagine similar issues evidenced by projected rises from the recent usage stats.
| 43 | Togekiss | 4.592% |
RU may lose Togekiss, a very integral Pokemon, to UU.
| 33 | Diancie | 6.008% |
| 36 | Starmie | 5.283% |
NU may lose both Diancie and Starmie to RU, the former mainly used to check the now banned Obstagoon, and if usage doesn’t go down they have an integral Pokemon lost to RU for 3 months.
| 42 | Quagsire | 4.987% |
PU may lose Quagsire, an A rank wall on their Viability Rankings, to NU as well.
Every lower tier is set to lose integral Pokemon in the final months of the generation, some suffering more than others, but why should we deal with this when there’s an easier solution? Even if a tier may not have too big issues now the insurance can still be valuable. Like said earlier, just stop rises these last 6 months/ Two tier shifts of the generation. It gives lower tiers time to take action on any last threats before the gen ends and the majority of the playerbase moves on, it’s hard to take action on old gens with the limited sample size. I also want to say we should keep drops. Why? Like said earlier it’s easier to handle drops than rises. If something mad OP drops we can just ban it, but we can’t control what rises. Drops can also help tiers. For example, NU can get a solid defensive staple in Gastrodon returning, while PU can get Guzzlord, another likely balanced Pokemon. Why gatekeep options to make these tiers better? Health of the tiers comes before some policy and tradition, all the lower tiers seek to only gain from removing rises while keeping drops near the end of the generation and I find it’s very easy to implement. Some might ask "Isn't this just another form of veto?" The difference here is that this is an objective method for stopping unwanted rises, not subjective where you have to determine whether the Pokemon is viable enough, which is the main criticism of the previously proposed veto system. Overall, removing rises from the last 2 shifts of the generation while keeping drops is the best action to take right now. It makes playing and tiering a lower tier far better at the cost of nothing. I’d hope this gets implemented very soon, before the July shifts, so we can continue to run our lower tiers and have them solved by the time the gen ends.
| 34 | Slowking | 5.395% |
| 35 | Excadrill | 5.055% |
| 40 | Nihilego | 4.291% |
| 41 | Rotom-Wash | 4.223% |
The loss of these Pokemon is monumental for the tier. And I truly mean it when I say monumental. UU would lose 4 very common and splashable staples that contribute largely to the health of the tier in the final months of the generation. Excadrill is an offensive check to dangerous threats like Aegislash and is a key hazard remover, being one of the only good ones so to speak. Slowking is an integral defensive switchin against the likes of Primarina, Moltres, Salamence, Conkeldurr, and Keldeo. Nihilego is an excellent Stealth Rocker and answer to the super dangerous Thundurus-T and checks other mons like Moltres and special attacker Salamence. Rotom-W is very useful in answering super dangerous threats like Mamoswine and Scizor who don’t have many defensive answers. Losing these 4 would send the tier into a downwards spiral, it’d have to be entirely reshaped and I would not be surprised for bans to happen as a result. It could be fine, but why would we take this chance when there’s an easier option available. Additionally, UU is dealing with controversial threats like Scizor and Aegislash right now, both the centers of wide discussion. It’d be very hard to take action on them and simultaneously deal with the aftermath of the shifts in 4 months, not to mention there’s ANOTHER shift that may screw us over. It’s just not beneficial nor fun at all, and like others have mentioned interest is dwindling, at that point who would bother picking up the pieces of a ruined tier and instead just wait for the new gen. I understand this has to apply to all lower tiers, and even though I’m mostly an observer for other lower tiers, I imagine similar issues evidenced by projected rises from the recent usage stats.
| 43 | Togekiss | 4.592% |
RU may lose Togekiss, a very integral Pokemon, to UU.
| 33 | Diancie | 6.008% |
| 36 | Starmie | 5.283% |
NU may lose both Diancie and Starmie to RU, the former mainly used to check the now banned Obstagoon, and if usage doesn’t go down they have an integral Pokemon lost to RU for 3 months.
| 42 | Quagsire | 4.987% |
PU may lose Quagsire, an A rank wall on their Viability Rankings, to NU as well.
Every lower tier is set to lose integral Pokemon in the final months of the generation, some suffering more than others, but why should we deal with this when there’s an easier solution? Even if a tier may not have too big issues now the insurance can still be valuable. Like said earlier, just stop rises these last 6 months/ Two tier shifts of the generation. It gives lower tiers time to take action on any last threats before the gen ends and the majority of the playerbase moves on, it’s hard to take action on old gens with the limited sample size. I also want to say we should keep drops. Why? Like said earlier it’s easier to handle drops than rises. If something mad OP drops we can just ban it, but we can’t control what rises. Drops can also help tiers. For example, NU can get a solid defensive staple in Gastrodon returning, while PU can get Guzzlord, another likely balanced Pokemon. Why gatekeep options to make these tiers better? Health of the tiers comes before some policy and tradition, all the lower tiers seek to only gain from removing rises while keeping drops near the end of the generation and I find it’s very easy to implement. Some might ask "Isn't this just another form of veto?" The difference here is that this is an objective method for stopping unwanted rises, not subjective where you have to determine whether the Pokemon is viable enough, which is the main criticism of the previously proposed veto system. Overall, removing rises from the last 2 shifts of the generation while keeping drops is the best action to take right now. It makes playing and tiering a lower tier far better at the cost of nothing. I’d hope this gets implemented very soon, before the July shifts, so we can continue to run our lower tiers and have them solved by the time the gen ends.