Project Mono-Type: Water

Following from that... you were battling me xD Here are some replays of me attempting to use a mono water team, probably best described as balanced/stall with win condition of sharpedo/gyarados/starmie clean up. MVP has got to be Jellicent. Night Shade/Taunt/WoW/Recover can fuck a lot of stuff up (not to mention Cursed Body..). Not feeling Sharpedo yet.. maybe my EV spread is wrong. Naughty, 16 Atk / 252 Satk / 232 Speed.

http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-doplomon-vs-shnen2--2011-10-29 < vs. above poster :D
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-doplomon-vs-Suuihk--2011-10-29 < some empoleon action.
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-doplomon-vs-Nala-Dragoon--2011-10-29-1 < the jellicent show
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Aero-Nerox-vs-doplomon--2011-10-29 < tight match but knew he had it in the bag from team preview.

Teams I've been using are :

Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Stockpile
- Recover

Sharpedo (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 16 Atk / 252 SAtk / 240 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Protect
- Crunch
- Hydro Pump
- Earthquake

316 atk / 289 satk / 286 spe. 16 atk crunch gets the 2hko with min of 53% against defensive celebi.

Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 240 HP / 52 Def / 216 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Recover
- Night Shade
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

Politoed (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 48 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Focus Blast
- Protect
- Toxic

Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 184 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Stockpile
- Recover

Sharpedo (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 16 Atk / 252 SAtk / 240 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Protect
- Crunch
- Hydro Pump
- Earthquake

Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 240 HP / 52 Def / 216 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Recover
- Night Shade
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

Politoed (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 184 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Psychic

Psychic for Toxicroak .-.

Empoleon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 236 HP / 248 SAtk / 24 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Grass Knot
 
Imo, Liquid Ooze is definately the better option on Tenta, Rain Dish should only be rquires on a Substitute using set in this scenario.
 
Texas Cloverleaf said:
Imo, Liquid Ooze is definately the better option on Tenta, Rain Dish should only be rquires on a Substitute using set in this scenario.
Click to expand...

What? Liquid Ooze is fairly situational. I'd rather have the guaranteed massive boost of HP every turn than being able to screw over the occasional Celebi or Ferrothorn (the only things that ever use Leech Seed, and even then it's not really their most common moves)
 
Every Ferrothorn runs Leech Seed. Ferrothron is public enemy number 1 to mono-water. Ergo, it deserves a lot of consideration.
 
@dan dan

yes you are using sharpedo wrong. eq is bad.

use the OU mixed set given on the analysis with 4 more evs on attack and 4 less on sp. attack
 
TM13IceBeam said:
said seeds can just be spun away, so...?
Click to expand...

Yes, but like UncleFinger said spinning away the seed is going to require you to take Iron Barbs damage every time. Plus, Ferrothorn can just reseed you next turn or at the end of the current turn if the user predicts well. Basically you'd be doing next to no damage while taking damage from both Iron Barbs and leech seed at least every other turn (since Ferrothorn is slower and thus can seed you after you attack). Being able to Rapid Spin away leech seed just doesn't seem like that good of a reason to pick Rain Dish over Liquid Ooze, though that's not to say there aren't good arguments for doing so.
 
the latter team will never, ever beat a Ferrothorn that doesn't switch directly into Politoed. it basically auto-loses and i would advise against ever using it!

The first team at least has Ludicolo who I think may be a neccesity because I think he is quite literally the only Water-type on the game that can switch into any of Ferrothorn's moves and threaten him directly. i'd reconsider your EVs though because you are always 2HKO'd by Power Whip after Rain Dish and LO (and Ferrothorn has no reason to not just spam Power Whip against you). you're showing your age DanDan because those EVs are tailored to outrun Adamant Tyranitar and he hasn't been relevant in about 5 years. :P I'd run enough to beat 0 Spe Rotom-W and put the remaining EVs into ensuring that Power Whip doesn't 2HKO. oh and use Surf.

even then you'll still probably lose to Ferrothorn but hey, that's the destiny of this team.

use Perish Song over Psychic on Politoed - Quagsire has Toxicroak covered, let Politoed worry about troublesome last Pokemon boosters and BP chains.
 
I don't know if this has been suggested already, but maybe Sniper Kingdra (instead of Swift Swim) is an option. It's the only water pokemon that gets to spam dragon attacks, both physical and special, has decent stats, and has a movepool containing dragon dance (great), all good dragon and water attacks (great), ice beam (useful), signal beam (for Celebi, albeit gimmicky) and flash cannon (bad)
 
***Second Post updated!***

I used to run a Lum DD Kingdra and it was very good. I wouldn't mind tinkering with one on our mono-water.

As much as I would like to have us all come up with a standard 6... it seems we are at a point where everyone is interjecting their own style. I would suggest everyone put some teams together now (preferably using the 4 we already have picked out + 2 others) and start posting experiences and pokemon + sets that are really working for you.
 
Texas Cloverleaf said:
In my opinion, a balance Drizzle team is the way to go. I theorymonned a team this morning in teambuilder that I plan to test later using the following: Specs Politoed, Cursed Body Jellicent, SubBounce Gyarados (any attempt at using Drizzle for a team should use this), Specially Defensive Empoleon, Bulky Rotom-W, Quagsire.

Politoed (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Recover

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance

Empoleon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 80 SAtk / 88 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
- Pain Split

Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Stockpile
- Recover
Specs Toed is chosen over other versions due to the balanced nature of the team, it generally lacks huge offensive options. I added some EVs into HP from Speed to add some survivability.

Jellicent is the obligatory spin blocker, but primarily the teams stallbreaker. 100 EVs are used to outspeed 16 Spe Skarmory, the fastest Skarm you will see, while Toxic allows the team a way to bypass Gastrodon, although Will-o-wisp is also viable for reasons discussed later.

SubBounce Gyarados is the best sweeper a Rain team has to offer, it will win you games. 88 Spe EV's guarantee outspeed all base 115's after a Dragon Dance with the remaining EVs giving bulk to your subs.

Specially Defensive Empoleon grants you tons of key resitances and a chance against dragon teams. Standard Scald/Ice Beam/SR/Roar is its best set with 88 SDef EVs moved to defense for generall bulk.
Bulky Rotom-W is the teams oddest set, running a 252/88/80/88 EV spread for great bulk retaining some of its offensive presence. Hydro Pump and Thunderbolt are standard, Pain Split for survivability, but the crux here is Toxic. Everyones favourite switch in to Rotom is Gastrodon who is tough to handle, but with Toxic, this threat is neutered. With this addition WoW can be run on Jellicent alongside Scald to help against Dragon teams.

Finally, Quagsire provides insurance against set up sweepers that could break the team. Dragon Dance w/o Sub lose to burn eventually, with Sub gets PP stall. QD Volc goes down to Earthquake. Terakion dies to either attack. With Stockpile and Recover Quagsire isn't going down easily.


The main concern that I can see is the immense pressure laid on Empoleon. It is your primary check for many special threats that it can be difficult to keep it alive.

How it handles the top threats in the metagame:
Tyranitar - Can be predicted and hit with SpecsToeds Focus Blast, burning or poisoning it cripples it, Quagsire laughs at DDTar.
Rotom-W - Painful. Choice sets are played around using Quagsire and Jelli/Empoleon. Not choiced sets must be Poisoned. Specs HP Grass puts offensive pressure on it.
Scizor - Pathetic. Jellicent and Gyarados completely cock block it.
Ferrothorn - Can be Taunted by Jellicent and Scald/WoW burned by Jelli/Empoleon/Quag. If its burned Garados can pull set ups off of it.
Dragonite - DD versions lose to Quagsire, getting PP stalled. CB Nite will almost certainly kill something but will be killed by Empoleon in return. Rain sweepers are walled by Rotom-W.
Politoed - Bulky=walled by Jelli, set up on by Emp/Gyara, Specs=painful but manageable.
Gliscor - lol. Literally the only thing it threatens is Empoleon who can kill it with Ice Beam. Acrobatics sets lose to Rotom, Facade loses to Jelli.
Heatran - More lol. Worst it can do is unboosted HP Grass.
Jirachi - Special Defensive loses to Jellicent, any CM loses to Quagsire
Latios - Difficult to play around, Empoleon is top blocker and can hit with Ice Beam, status is helpful, Politoed can predict the switch and Ice Beam
Skarmory - 100% loses to Jellicent, loses to Rotom-W
Reuniclus - CM loses to Stockpile Quag, OTR gets Taunted by Jelli, or can be played between Emp and Jelli until TR runs out.
Deoxys-S - Lead gets 2 hazards and dies to Specs Toed, cleaner is stopped by Quag if it can take a hit.
Haxorus - HUge problem (as it is for any rain team). Get the burn. if you don't, things will die, and quickly.
Ninetales - Doesn't like coming in on anything but SolarBeam variants can be tough.
Conkeldurr - Stopped by Quag, but Quag can only Burn in retaliation, also stopped by Gyarados who threatesn with Bounce, Hydro Pump ass rapes it.
Celebi - NP Celebi instant wins if Gyara hasn't set up yet. Gyarados is really your only hope.
Forretress - Loses to Jelli but Volt Switch sucks, same for Gyara. Anything can break it down with their STAB's.
Terrakion - SD or RP lose to Quag, Chioce requires prediction but Jellicent can wall CC while Emp or Quag stops SE.
Gyarados - Loses to Thunderbolt Rotom.
Gengar - Annoying, but any Sub gets broken by a STAB and should be 2HKOed at worst.
Starmie - Very dangerous, only Rotom-W isn't hit hard by one of its attacks. Jellicent can stall out Life Orb in a pinch.
Landorus - Set up is yet again stopped by Quag. Quag actually stops most Landorus while Rotom also beats non-Sub Lando.
Jellicent - You run slightly more Speed so your Jelli wins, however, with Cursed Body you can be burned by their Scald. Rotom-W wins with Thunderbolt as well. Toxic stops it cold. Gyarados beats most versions via Sub.
Infernape - Stopped cold by Gyara and Jellicent.
Volcarona - Quag>j00. Jelli beats non-Rest versions as well.
Tentacruel - EQ with Quag or set up on it with Gyarados.
Gastrodon - Predict the switch and Specs HP grass it, or lure with Rotom and Toxic it before hiding behind Taunt Jellicent.
Magnezone - Walled by Quag.
Espeon - Can't take continued offensive pressure, no particular way to beat it. Just watch out for a Dual Screens version, however Quag should stop whatever the try to set up.
Blissey - Jellicent.
Salamence - DD Mence loses to Quagsire, MixMence goes to Emp on the DM, then to Gyara for the set up.
Hydreigon - Scarf is the only common set and can only really be played around. U-Turn won't hit anyone hard, Dark Pulse and Focus Blast get taken by Empoleon and Jelli/Gyara respectively.
Breloom - Set up on by Gyara if you can avoid Spore. Very dangerous though.
Vaporeon - Taunt with Jelly. Rotom Thunderbolt, Gyara.
Latias - CM versions go to Quagsire.
Toxicroak - Instantly loses to Gyarados if SD, loses to Jelli if Sub/BU. Loses to Quag regardless.
Lucario - Walled by Gyara, non-Crunch is walled by Jelly. Stockpile Quag walls it or kills with EQ.
Bronzong - Taunt it with Jelly, wall it with Gyara, whatever ou want, it cant do shit.
Virizion - A huge problem but loses to Gyara one on one. If it sets up your in trouble though.
Scrafty - BU gets raped by Politoed, Gets walled by Quag
Venusaur - In Sun only Empoleon can take a hit or two. In rain Gyarados can DD and then Bounce.
Metagross - Walled by Jelli/Gyara/Quag
Mienshao - lol, Jelli.
Cloyster - WoW from jelli, Thunderbolt from Rotom, Stocpile with Quag.
Swampert - Wtf can this do? All it can do against Gyara is Roar.
Mew - A douche to everyone. Your best bet is to smash it with Specs Hydro Pump, as it can outspeed and Taunt anything, and recvoer off unboosted hits.
Hippowdon - You like eating Scalds? Only forces out Empoleon.
Mamoswine - Stopped by Rotom-W, Gyarados, Jellicent, Quag
Chansey - Jellicent
Dugtrio Traps and kills Empoleon, everything else can kill it.

The biggest problems for this team is the pressure placed on Empoleon, who lacks recovery, and the lack of a Spinner, as T-Spikes can hamper your survavability. I would have liked to have fit Starmie or Tentacruel into the team but really couldn't find the space for them.


Anyway, I believe the best bet for Mono-Water is a Balanced team and this is a good starting point for that team.




And remember, USE SUB BOUNCE GYARADOS!!!
Click to expand...
As its more relevant now, I'll repost this to start of the team testing phase.


EDIT: While we're at it this Smog article could be of some use.
 
I found poison to be the best mono-type team in 4th gen bu with 5th gen i would have to assume the weather teams, particularly rock, ground and water would fare well.

I also had a water mono-type team in 4th gen and it was one of the better types to use, the most valuable poke to that team was Empoleon, this was pretty much due to all the resistances it could carry. it was the only water type who could resist dragon for instance, is neutral to grass and i am pretty sure that it is the water poke with most resistances. This stopped some big sweeps from ripping apart my team. Also having a Swampert, Quagsire or Whimsicash is essential to stop the ever present electric attacks being thrown your way. the big problem this gen would be sun teams and solar beam
 
Also Starmie was useful to switch into the ever common fighting type as well as Starmie just being a beast.

I was wondering what would happen if you made a Hyper offensive mono-type team. The STAB may be limited but pokes these days have a wide range of types covered in their attacks. The reason for using HO is because the common weaknesses will be much less a factor when you are trying to win a game in under 20 moves. I am not to sure which type you would use, this would probably be the best type of mono-type fire team you could have. If you had a ninetails and a solar beam user it would wok better as well, even adding one neutral type such as venomoth who could baton pass quiver dance allowing for solar beam to destroy a team.
 
yea i was very tempted to make a mono water HO team consisting of

specstoed
subdd kingdra
sub gyarados
subsd tentacruel
sharpedo
cloyster

edit: hmmm... i see a huge weakness to scarf terrakion
 
This sounds like a cool idea but I think a lot of problems could be solved if we get rid of Tentacruel. Cloyster can spin and is a much better offensive threat and Toxic Spikes seems useless with this being a balanced team. This opens a slot for Jelicent who still counters fighting type mons and has good bulk. I also think we need Swampert for SR and also it is a very good bulky attacker. I am not sure why we arent discussing Rotom W because I feel that is better than Sharpedo, although if Poli is scarfed there is little point here. If i had to make a mono water team it would look like this:
ScarfToed
Spdef Jelicent
Shellsmash/Spin Cloyster
Rest Talk Gyra
Sub DD Kingdra
Blky O Swampert
 
Tentacruel is faster, has better Sp. Def, and can absorb T. Spikes. Fighting resist and a Grass neutrality also helps. Tenta also benefits from the rain, while Cloyster is saddled with a cripping base Sp. Def, and a terrible defensive type combination.

And you really need Empoleon, I think. Water's main weaknesses are Electric and Grass, which tend to hit on the Special side, barring Ferrothorn.
 
again, swampert is one of those few pokes that can lure and kill ferrothorn (which is pretty awesome) so dont think its outclassed.
 
The only problem with not running Politoed is when facing a Drought team. Your STAB is effectively nullified and now those water weak pokes on the other side are that much harder to take down. Politoed has a lot more viable options than people give it credit for and does not need to be a liability.
 
My team so far:
Politoed @ lefties
Drizzle
Calm Nature (+SpDef, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpDef
-Scald
-Protect
-Perish Song
-Toxic

Vaporeon @ lefties
Hydration
Modest Nature (+SpAtk, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpAtk
-Rest
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power Fighting

Swampert @ lefties
Torrent
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
EVs: 240 HP, 216 Def, 52 SpAtk
-Stealth Rock
-Roar
-EQ
-Ice Beam

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Rain Dish
Calm Nature (+SpDef, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 SpAtk
-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Scald
-Acid Spray

Starmie @ LO
Natural Cure
Modest Nature (+SpAtk, -Atk)
EVs: 4HP, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe
-Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Psyshock
-Recover

Gyarados @ lefties
Intimidate
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
-Dragon Dance
-Substitute
-Waterfall
-Bounce

This line has been working for me. It's slightly defensively oriented, but it holds its own. Defensive Politoed works well against stat-uppers. Hydration Vaporeon is carrying HP fighting for Ferro, but I might change this since I have a much better tactic for Ferro now. Swampert and Tentacruel make up my defensive core and can be extremely hard to break through when I play right, but paper thin when I'm off. Tenta runs Acid Spray over most other options for its ability to soften up opposing pokemon for scald or one of my several special attackers. Plus few people see it coming. Starmie Hits hard on both ends of the spectrum with Psyshock and SubDD Gaya owns.

Ferro has been a very small threat so far. They typically seed first thing while I burn them with scald from one of my various scald users. Once burned (this step is even ommitable but makes things a lot easier), I switch in Gaya who subs on the incoming leech seed. Then just DD up and Bounce. Even if they switch, you can get 2 DDs in which spells certain doom for just about anyone that can threaten Gaya.

Admittedly, Dragon Dancing Dragons are proving to be a bane if not taken care of IMMEDIATELY. But considering most carry EQ, Empoleon is out anyway.
 
Run said:
My team so far:
Politoed @ lefties
Drizzle
Calm Nature (+SpDef, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpDef
-Scald
-Protect
-Perish Song
-Toxic

Vaporeon @ lefties
Hydration
Modest Nature (+SpAtk, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpAtk
-Rest
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power Fighting

Swampert @ lefties
Torrent
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
EVs: 240 HP, 216 Def, 52 SpAtk
-Stealth Rock
-Roar
-EQ
-Ice Beam

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Rain Dish
Calm Nature (+SpDef, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 SpAtk
-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Scald
-Acid Spray

Starmie @ LO
Natural Cure
Modest Nature (+SpAtk, -Atk)
EVs: 4HP, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe
-Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Psyshock
-Recover

Gyarados @ lefties
Intimidate
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
-Dragon Dance
-Substitute
-Waterfall
-Bounce

This line has been working for me. It's slightly defensively oriented, but it holds its own. Defensive Politoed works well against stat-uppers. Hydration Vaporeon is carrying HP fighting for Ferro, but I might change this since I have a much better tactic for Ferro now. Swampert and Tentacruel make up my defensive core and can be extremely hard to break through when I play right, but paper thin when I'm off. Tenta runs Acid Spray over most other options for its ability to soften up opposing pokemon for scald or one of my several special attackers. Plus few people see it coming. Starmie Hits hard on both ends of the spectrum with Psyshock and SubDD Gaya owns.

Ferro has been a very small threat so far. They typically seed first thing while I burn them with scald from one of my various scald users. Once burned (this step is even ommitable but makes things a lot easier), I switch in Gaya who subs on the incoming leech seed. Then just DD up and Bounce. Even if they switch, you can get 2 DDs in which spells certain doom for just about anyone that can threaten Gaya.

Admittedly, Dragon Dancing Dragons are proving to be a bane if not taken care of IMMEDIATELY. But considering most carry EQ, Empoleon is out anyway.
Click to expand...

I got a quick and simple solution to your DDing dragon issue. Your Vaporeon that I see now is a rather awkward set that tries to be both defensive and offensive at the same time, which I can't imagine works terribly well. Instead, I suggest running a fully defensive set, like this one I use:

Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Toxic
- Haze
- Rest


You wouldn't know it by looking at it, but this Vaporeon eats Dragon Dancing dragons for breakfast. It can tank +1 hits from anything bar Adamant Haxorus, and then threaten back with burn and toxic. Haze prevents it from just upping it stats until it can get past you, without the issue of forcing them out, resetting toxic damage. Haze also has the benefit of being able to stop last-pokemon stat boosters, and since you don't have much for hazards anyway forcing switches is unnecessary. It can also tank just about anything else not carrying powerful electric/grass type attacks as well, and Scald still hits hard in the rain even without any investment. It's also a great stall breaker thanks to Hydration and rest, since it can't be poisoned and laughs at the opponent's attempts to wear it down as it heals off all the damage it has taken in one turn. It's also great for any stat boosters other than DDers as well, especially useful since you're not using Quagsire.
 
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